Trevor Tosspot admits he seeks a total ban on the private ow

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:1OidnS-dts1yfArSnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around outways
the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of it
here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked one
at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole unless you
consider the US that? Why don't you compare it ap[ples with apples to a
country like Canada which shares your culture and values ecept for the
gun laws


Nope?

I'd prefer apples with apples


Looks like your theory is wrong then.

no just compare it with your culurally alike northern neieghbour

Been done.
Go read:
The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy:
Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies
David B. Kopel

famous for "Simply put, if not for gun control, Hitler would not have been
able to murder 21 million people"

I prefer his CANADIAN GUN CONTROL: SHOULD THE UNITED STATES LOOK NORTH FOR A
SOLUTION TO ITS FIREARMS PROBLEM?. Interesting conclusion it is not only
Canadian gun laws but that Americans are homicidal maniacs that causes the
differences

 

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:1OidnS6dts1yfArSnZ2dnUVZ_qUAAAAA@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sZqdnTdn9JwyMArSnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:1I6dnXTime1AEwrSnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around outways
the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of it
here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Most HOMICIDES are CRIMINAL acts

If you want to compare
Criminal use of guns, then do so
But you had better separate out LAWFUL use of guns from that data

By conflating it all together, you are effectively lying by
misrepresentation

So let's do A REAL Comparison
1,500,000 criminal use of guns (including murder)
2,500,000 LEGAL USE of guns for self-defense
that's a 5:3 ratio in favor of having guns as a defensive tool against
criminals

data from where?

Gunfacts.info
That's another website you should read from end to end, before spouting
more if your ignorance.

but none of the data seems to be referenced. Seems like the NRA data on
defensive gun use of iirc 2.5 million /year who included a woman that was in
enough fear of her life to pull her gun 12 times 9 no incidents reported to
the police )

You see chuckles, many people on this group were even more ignorant than
you are.
But unlike you, they did their homework and got educated...

Go for it , challenge yourself

 

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news9OdnUrsAdcyEArSnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:q5mdnZ6q6MoGqwrSnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:v8SdnYtzP4DCAAvSnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cISdnUtiDZj1jQvSnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5olr.6130$%E2.1787@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
dechucka wrote:

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SVmlr.6034$v14.1894@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
dechucka wrote:
Would pre Howard gun laws done anything to stop the current
violence?


The current ones have not, so why were they changed?

You forgot to answer the question. Haven't seen any long arm
massacres
since Port Arthur iirc


the total homicides are not decreasing by any appreciable amount.

keep squirming


Don't need to, statistics beats phobic paranoid rhetoric.

Main statistic is no massacres using long arms since Port Arther,
rather
destroys your pov don't you think

people who seem to think that removal of the method of homicide that
they have a phobia about without altering the total homicides just
demonstrate their irrational fear about that particular inanimate
object.
What we have to do as a people is concentrate on the real causes of
homicide not what is used to commit them.

I totally agree with you. As a gun owner I am happy enough with the
current gun law but actually think that the "ban" on semi automatics is
a bit silly. Lets face it most people in Australia don't need guns so
licensing should be on a needs basis as it is now.

Yup
Most people around the world don't "need" guns UNTIL the shit hits the
fan
And then it's usually far too late to get guns
Just look at ANY countries history.
Sooner or later the shit will hit the fan, and those who will survive
will usually be those who quickly figure out how to keep the goblins
from killing them.

more and more you are showing yourself to be a wacko. Do you have an "I
fear my Goverement" car sticker


Nope
But then I do NOT "fear my government"
And you have far more to fear from YOUR government, since it's turning you
from a freeman to a subject/slave
After all when your government has all the guns and the citizens have
none,

Well I have guns so lets snip the rest of the crap

snip

 

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:IsKdnRUxNveRDQrSnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RdSdnbD8f_FIqQrSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jn5qdh$ch4$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cISdnUtiDZj1jQvSnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5olr.6130$%E2.1787@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
dechucka wrote:

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SVmlr.6034$v14.1894@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
dechucka wrote:
Would pre Howard gun laws done anything to stop the current
violence?


The current ones have not, so why were they changed?

You forgot to answer the question. Haven't seen any long arm
massacres
since Port Arthur iirc


the total homicides are not decreasing by any appreciable amount.

keep squirming


Don't need to, statistics beats phobic paranoid rhetoric.

Main statistic is no massacres using long arms since Port Arther,
rather
destroys your pov don't you think

people who seem to think that removal of the method of homicide that
they have a phobia about without altering the total homicides just
demonstrate their irrational fear about that particular inanimate
object.
What we have to do as a people is concentrate on the real causes of
homicide not what is used to commit them.

I totally agree with you. As a gun owner I am happy enough with the
current gun law but actually think that the "ban" on semi automatics is
a bit silly. Lets face it most people in Australia don't need guns so
licensing should be on a needs basis as it is now. One group who should
never be allowed to own guns imho is the "self defense lobby".

I see. So you are stating that self defense wouldn't be a legitimate
need?

In the vast majority of cases yes and those needs are covered by current
laws

LOL
A weasel response.
chuckles is dancing around like a devil in holy water

DO tell us which laws are those...

The current gun licensing laws. Try and keep up

 

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:XIidnWtib-4hfQrSnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZvCdnVGG9vhHMArSnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:IsKdnRQxNveRDQrSnZ2dnUVZ_jEAAAAA@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LoCdnbJ8A-HRqgrSnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"kreed" <kenreed1999@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0605ed38-bf6f-4924-9f3d-4d728fc764de@t2g2000pbg.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 24, 12:30 pm, "dechucka" <dechuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"F Murtz" <hagg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:b5olr.6130$%E2.1787@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...









dechucka wrote:

"F Murtz" <hagg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SVmlr.6034$v14.1894@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
dechucka wrote:
Would pre Howard gun laws done anything to stop the current
violence?

The current ones have not, so why were they changed?

You forgot to answer the question. Haven't seen any long arm
massacres
since Port Arthur iirc

the total homicides are not decreasing by any appreciable
amount.

keep squirming

Don't need to, statistics beats phobic paranoid rhetoric.

Main statistic is no massacres using long arms since Port Arther,
rather
destroys your pov don't you think

people who seem to think that removal of the method of homicide that
they
have a phobia about without altering the total homicides just
demonstrate
their irrational fear about that particular inanimate object.
What we have to do as a people is concentrate on the real causes of
homicide not what is used to commit them.

I totally agree with you. As a gun owner I am happy enough with the
current
gun law but actually think that the "ban" on semi automatics is a bit
silly.
Lets face it most people in Australia don't need guns so licensing
should be
on a needs basis as it is now. One group who should never be allowed
to own
guns imho is the "self defense lobby".


Just wondering why, as adults, people seem to think it to be ok not be
allowed the right to make their own decisions, instead want to pay a
group of officials (mostly corrupt/criminal types who do NOT represent
them) for permission as to whether or not they can own or use
something ?

------------------------------------------------------

I don't know it is just that society seems to work better with some
rules.


"Some rules" ???
Why you little fascist hypocrite, you....

you an anarchist are you?

LOL
To a statist "slave" like you everyone must appear an anarchist.
I'm a Jacksonian

you have epilepsy

 

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:S9SdnZRWKeWnDArSnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rrSdnTVG9PlsqgrSnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"atec77" <"atec77 "@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jn5p64$4u6$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/04/2012 6:28 PM, dechucka wrote:

"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:vYSdnT-wx62VvQvSnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 4/24/2012 5:01 AM, dechucka wrote:

"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:xI-dna1zJveMJQnSnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 4/22/2012 3:35 PM, dechucka wrote:

"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:bPydnYXHCvDk1w7SnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 4/22/2012 7:30 AM, John-Melb wrote:
On Apr 22, 4:33 am, Trevor
Wilson<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au
wrote:

**No, we do not. Handguns are unnecessary in modern society
(despite
the
delusions that afflict your good wife). The sooner they are
banned
completely and possession laws can then be stengthened, the
better.
Naturally, semi-auto and auto handguns must be banned
immediately.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au

With apologies to the Reverend Neimoller.

First they come for the semi-auto's, I didn't speak out, I didn't
own



It should be up to the individual to have that choice should they feel
the need.

No it shouldn't because by feeling the need they automatically show
themselves to unsuitable to hold a gun license
Liar , the desire to protect ones self and family IS the very reason to
own small arms , passing a fair test for carry is terribly difficult
and determines well that the permit holder is reliable and safe in
ownership

So those who don't pass this test don't have the right to protect their
families? That is sick.


You just blew your original position out of the water, chuckles
After all YOU are the one claiming that
" feeling the need (to be armed for self-defense)
they automatically show themselves
to (be) unsuitable to hold a gun license"
By your definition ANYONE who feels the need to prepare to protect their
families are
"unsuitable to hold a gun license"(your words)


Kid down my way nearly got abducted should he have the right to carry for
protection?

More intellectual dishonesty from chuckles
There is a difference between adults and kids
Although your false argument basically ignores that

Come on don't kids have the right to protection by carrying?

Come on it is all in if guns are for protection

What is that nonsense phrase supposed to mean

If guns are a valid form of protection and don't cause any other problems
than the entire population should have the right to carry

 

[Scout]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around outways
the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of it
here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked one at
that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it shouldn't
matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example of the
wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from that.

unless you consider the US that?

In some ways I do.

Why don't you compare it ap[ples with apples to a
country like Canada which shares your culture and values ecept for the gun
laws

Canada doesn't share our culture and values, nor is it the same in
everything except gun control.

Your claim that it is clearly shows your denial of the differences that
exist. Social differences, Economic Differences. Political differences.
Demographic differences. Enforcement differences. All are differences that
impact crime and crime rates.

 

[dechucka]

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around outways
the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of it
here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked one
at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it shouldn't
matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example of
the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions not
the norms

unless you consider the US that?

In some ways I do.

Why don't you compare it ap[ples with apples to a
country like Canada which shares your culture and values ecept for the
gun laws

Canada doesn't share our culture and values, nor is it the same in
everything except gun control.

A lot closer than Mexico

Your claim that it is clearly shows your denial of the differences that
exist. Social differences, Economic Differences. Political differences.
Demographic differences. Enforcement differences. All are differences that
impact crime and crime rates.

you forgot gun control differences

 

[F Murtz]

dechucka wrote:

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:S9SdnZRWKeWnDArSnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rrSdnTVG9PlsqgrSnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"atec77" <"atec77 "@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jn5p64$4u6$1@dont-email.me...
On 24/04/2012 6:28 PM, dechucka wrote:

"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:vYSdnT-wx62VvQvSnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 4/24/2012 5:01 AM, dechucka wrote:

"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:xI-dna1zJveMJQnSnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 4/22/2012 3:35 PM, dechucka wrote:

"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:bPydnYXHCvDk1w7SnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 4/22/2012 7:30 AM, John-Melb wrote:
On Apr 22, 4:33 am, Trevor
Wilson<tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au
wrote:

**No, we do not. Handguns are unnecessary in modern society
(despite
the
delusions that afflict your good wife). The sooner they are
banned
completely and possession laws can then be stengthened, the
better.
Naturally, semi-auto and auto handguns must be banned
immediately.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au

With apologies to the Reverend Neimoller.

First they come for the semi-auto's, I didn't speak out, I
didn't
own



It should be up to the individual to have that choice should they
feel
the need.

No it shouldn't because by feeling the need they automatically show
themselves to unsuitable to hold a gun license
Liar , the desire to protect ones self and family IS the very reason
to own small arms , passing a fair test for carry is terribly
difficult and determines well that the permit holder is reliable and
safe in ownership

So those who don't pass this test don't have the right to protect
their families? That is sick.


You just blew your original position out of the water, chuckles
After all YOU are the one claiming that
" feeling the need (to be armed for self-defense)
they automatically show themselves
to (be) unsuitable to hold a gun license"
By your definition ANYONE who feels the need to prepare to protect
their families are
"unsuitable to hold a gun license"(your words)


Kid down my way nearly got abducted should he have the right to carry
for protection?

More intellectual dishonesty from chuckles
There is a difference between adults and kids
Although your false argument basically ignores that

Come on don't kids have the right to protection by carrying?



Come on it is all in if guns are for protection

What is that nonsense phrase supposed to mean

If guns are a valid form of protection and don't cause any other
problems than the entire population should have the right to carry

I think that there are places in America where that is almost the case,
they seem to have few firearm problems.

 

[Scout]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LrKdnTOXKsORLQXSnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of it
here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked one
at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it shouldn't
matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example of
the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions not
the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's not
right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.

Seems you wont be happy unless the country selected agrees with your
theories....

But isn't that cherry picking?

unless you consider the US that?

In some ways I do.

Why don't you compare it ap[ples with apples to a
country like Canada which shares your culture and values ecept for the
gun laws

Canada doesn't share our culture and values, nor is it the same in
everything except gun control.

A lot closer than Mexico

And South Africa is also closer since it's also a 1st world nation.

Yet, you're still unhappy.

Why don't you try moving the goalpost yet again?

Your claim that it is clearly shows your denial of the differences that
exist. Social differences, Economic Differences. Political differences.
Demographic differences. Enforcement differences. All are differences
that impact crime and crime rates.

you forgot gun control differences

You don't deny those difference.

 

[dechucka]

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jnaftj$v23$1@dont-email.me...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LrKdnTOXKsORLQXSnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of it
here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked one
at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it shouldn't
matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example of
the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions not
the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's not
right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.

no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll discuss
Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Seems you wont be happy unless the country selected agrees with your
theories....

But isn't that cherry picking?

no I think choosing SA and Mexico is

unless you consider the US that?

In some ways I do.

Why don't you compare it ap[ples with apples to a
country like Canada which shares your culture and values ecept for the
gun laws

Canada doesn't share our culture and values, nor is it the same in
everything except gun control.

A lot closer than Mexico

And South Africa is also closer since it's also a 1st world nation.

Yet, you're still unhappy.

Perfectly happy for you to keep cherry picking

Why don't you try moving the goalpost yet again?

Your claim that it is clearly shows your denial of the differences that
exist. Social differences, Economic Differences. Political differences.
Demographic differences. Enforcement differences. All are differences
that impact crime and crime rates.

you forgot gun control differences

You don't deny those difference.

 

[dechucka]

snip

If guns are a valid form of protection and don't cause any other
problems than the entire population should have the right to carry

I think that there are places in America where that is almost the case,

almost

they seem to have few firearm problems.

really

 

[Scout]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:-uadnRQLBZj1dQXSnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jnaftj$v23$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LrKdnTOXKsORLQXSnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun
us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of
it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked
one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it shouldn't
matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example
of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions
not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's not
right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your theory and
since you've accepted one that means your theory as it stands is crap.

Try again when you can come up with a theory that accounts for all the known
facts.

 

[dechucka]

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncm8k$rjj$1@dont-email.me...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:-uadnRQLBZj1dQXSnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jnaftj$v23$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LrKdnTOXKsORLQXSnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun
us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of
it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked
one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it shouldn't
matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example
of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from
that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions
not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's not
right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your theory
and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?

Try again when you can come up with a theory that accounts for all the
known facts.

your may be correct and Americans are just homicidal maniacs who would find
other ways to kill each other at such a high rate without guns

 

[Scout]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sbydnYzoNobReATSnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncm8k$rjj$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:-uadnRQLBZj1dQXSnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jnaftj$v23$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LrKdnTOXKsORLQXSnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun
us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of
it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked
one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example
of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from
that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions
not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's not
right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your theory
and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it stands is
crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?

It certainly does disprove the theory though.

Try again when you can come up with a theory that accounts for all the
known facts.

your may be correct and Americans are just homicidal maniacs who would
find other ways to kill each other at such a high rate without guns

That's probably the truest thing you've said yet.

See, it's not the presence of weapons that makes people kill.....but the
willingness to do so.

We need to address those with that willingness as a short term solution and
the causes of what produces that willingness as a long term solution.

IMO, a lot of our problem ties into the War on Drugs which fuels all manner
of violence in our society. From people committing violent crimes to finance
their 'fix' to dealers killing each other over 'turf' to drug lords fighting
with law enforcement to protect their 'product'.

I've seen statistics in the US that indicate that over 50% of all violent
crime (including homicide) involves illegal drugs and that some 90% of
violent criminals have detectable levels of illegal drugs in their system
when arrested.

A similar massive violence occurred with prohibition, and largely ended with
the repeal of prohibition.

Now don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no use for illegal drugs, and I
believe those that use them tend towards the stupid, but it does IMO do much
to create the elements necessary for much of our violent crime and
homicides.

We've been trying to control illegal drugs going on 60 years now without
success. Maybe it's time to consider doing something else instead?

 

[John-Melb]

On Apr 27, 3:01 am, Addinall <addin...@addinall.net> wrote:

On Apr 23, 4:01 pm, keithr <kei...@nowhere.com.au> wrote:









On 22/04/2012 1:38 PM, B J Foster wrote:

On 22/04/2012 1:36 PM, keithr wrote:
On 22/04/2012 1:31 PM, B J Foster wrote:
On 22/04/2012 1:27 PM, John-Melb wrote:
On Apr 22, 12:31 pm, B J Foster<bjfos...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

Hey Twevor,
What's your plan for taking the weapons away from the crims?

He doesn't, anti-gun zealots have previously admitted they don't have
a problem with criminals owning guns illegally.

So their plan is to confiscate guns from law-abiding citizens?

WHAT ON EARTH FOR???

Isn't that just what your hero Saint John Howard did?

That's one of the reasons why I voted against him & campaigned against
him. Next!

Tell us another one, B J Foster, the lib's most rusted on supporter
voting against them ROFL!

If you want to document the animosity of Liberals to Howard's gun-
grab, ask David Moss.
The anti-Howard feel in the conservative side of politics was very
real.

I sent my membership card back in 1995 and have refused to support the
Liberal party until just recently when Abbott took the helm.

"In 1998, Abbott established a trust fund called "Australians for
Honest Politics Trust" to help bankroll civil court cases against the
One Nation party and its founders, Pauline Hanson and David Ettridge.
[46] Prosecution resulted in Hanson & Ettridge being imprisoned.[47]
The conviction against Hanson was ultimately overturned, leading to
criticism of a range of politicians for political interference by the
adjudicating justice."

Do you really think Abbott would behave any different to Howard?

I will never support the Liberal Party again, no way, no how. I make
sure whenever I go to the polls I wear a club badge of some
description, I take great delight in pointing it out to whoever is
handing out the Liberal Party how to vote cards and asking "What are
my guns worth now?" They never seem to appreciate it.

For those with short memories, the anti-gun-grab marches in Melbourne
and Sydney had 100,000 people.  Here in Brisbane we managed 20,000
people on the streets and later at the Belmont Rifle club.  The
biggest response by the people post-Vietnam marches.  Didn't do much
good.  Although it made clear to the Liberal party that 'wet' moves
were disliked.

Mark Addinall.

 

[dechucka]

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncr4m$ht5$1@dont-email.me...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sbydnYzoNobReATSnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncm8k$rjj$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:-uadnRQLBZj1dQXSnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jnaftj$v23$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LrKdnTOXKsORLQXSnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
message news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive
gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all
of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked
one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results
from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions
not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's
not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your theory
and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it stands is
crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?

It certainly does disprove the theory though.

Try again when you can come up with a theory that accounts for all the
known facts.

your may be correct and Americans are just homicidal maniacs who would
find other ways to kill each other at such a high rate without guns

That's probably the truest thing you've said yet.

See, it's not the presence of weapons that makes people kill.....but the
willingness to do so.

We need to address those with that willingness as a short term solution
and the causes of what produces that willingness as a long term solution.

IMO, a lot of our problem ties into the War on Drugs which fuels all
manner of violence in our society. From people committing violent crimes
to finance their 'fix' to dealers killing each other over 'turf' to drug
lords fighting with law enforcement to protect their 'product'.

I've seen statistics in the US that indicate that over 50% of all violent
crime (including homicide) involves illegal drugs and that some 90% of
violent criminals have detectable levels of illegal drugs in their system
when arrested.

A similar massive violence occurred with prohibition, and largely ended
with the repeal of prohibition.

Now don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no use for illegal drugs, and I
believe those that use them tend towards the stupid, but it does IMO do
much to create the elements necessary for much of our violent crime and
homicides.

We've been trying to control illegal drugs going on 60 years now without
success. Maybe it's time to consider doing something else instead?

unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an impersonal
way of killing

 

[Scout]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Tuednenv-fLfZwTSnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncr4m$ht5$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sbydnYzoNobReATSnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncm8k$rjj$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:-uadnRQLBZj1dQXSnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jnaftj$v23$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LrKdnTOXKsORLQXSnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
message news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive
gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all
of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's
not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your
theory and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it
stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?

It certainly does disprove the theory though.

Try again when you can come up with a theory that accounts for all the
known facts.

your may be correct and Americans are just homicidal maniacs who would
find other ways to kill each other at such a high rate without guns

That's probably the truest thing you've said yet.

See, it's not the presence of weapons that makes people kill.....but the
willingness to do so.

We need to address those with that willingness as a short term solution
and the causes of what produces that willingness as a long term solution.

IMO, a lot of our problem ties into the War on Drugs which fuels all
manner of violence in our society. From people committing violent crimes
to finance their 'fix' to dealers killing each other over 'turf' to drug
lords fighting with law enforcement to protect their 'product'.

I've seen statistics in the US that indicate that over 50% of all violent
crime (including homicide) involves illegal drugs and that some 90% of
violent criminals have detectable levels of illegal drugs in their system
when arrested.

A similar massive violence occurred with prohibition, and largely ended
with the repeal of prohibition.

Now don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no use for illegal drugs, and I
believe those that use them tend towards the stupid, but it does IMO do
much to create the elements necessary for much of our violent crime and
homicides.

We've been trying to control illegal drugs going on 60 years now without
success. Maybe it's time to consider doing something else instead?

unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an impersonal
way of killing

So do bombs, traps, crossbows, cars, and a multitude of other means.

If this is the extent of your opposition to the points I've made, then
perhaps I've made a slight difference.

IMO we need to focus our attention and energy on the actual problem and
causes of that problem and quit wasting time and resources trying to deal
with one means of instrumentality.

 

[dechucka]

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncvjf$5bq$1@dont-email.me...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Tuednenv-fLfZwTSnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncr4m$ht5$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sbydnYzoNobReATSnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncm8k$rjj$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:-uadnRQLBZj1dQXSnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jnaftj$v23$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LrKdnTOXKsORLQXSnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
message news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
message news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive
gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all
of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's
not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your
theory and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it
stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?

It certainly does disprove the theory though.

Try again when you can come up with a theory that accounts for all the
known facts.

your may be correct and Americans are just homicidal maniacs who would
find other ways to kill each other at such a high rate without guns

That's probably the truest thing you've said yet.

See, it's not the presence of weapons that makes people kill.....but the
willingness to do so.

We need to address those with that willingness as a short term solution
and the causes of what produces that willingness as a long term
solution.

IMO, a lot of our problem ties into the War on Drugs which fuels all
manner of violence in our society. From people committing violent crimes
to finance their 'fix' to dealers killing each other over 'turf' to drug
lords fighting with law enforcement to protect their 'product'.

I've seen statistics in the US that indicate that over 50% of all
violent crime (including homicide) involves illegal drugs and that some
90% of violent criminals have detectable levels of illegal drugs in
their system when arrested.

A similar massive violence occurred with prohibition, and largely ended
with the repeal of prohibition.

Now don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no use for illegal drugs, and
I believe those that use them tend towards the stupid, but it does IMO
do much to create the elements necessary for much of our violent crime
and homicides.

We've been trying to control illegal drugs going on 60 years now without
success. Maybe it's time to consider doing something else instead?

unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an impersonal
way of killing

So do bombs, traps, crossbows, cars, and a multitude of other means.

If this is the extent of your opposition to the points I've made, then
perhaps I've made a slight difference.

IMO we need to focus our attention and energy on the actual problem and
causes of that problem and quit wasting time and resources trying to deal
with one means of instrumentality.

There is no way that the situation re guns in the US will be solved. The
killing will continue

 

[Scout]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dKGdnSGFaLCVjAfSnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncvjf$5bq$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Tuednenv-fLfZwTSnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncr4m$ht5$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sbydnYzoNobReATSnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jncm8k$rjj$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:-uadnRQLBZj1dQXSnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:jnaftj$v23$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LrKdnTOXKsORLQXSnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
message news:jna8b7$1a6$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
message news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's
not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your
theory and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it
stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?

It certainly does disprove the theory though.

Try again when you can come up with a theory that accounts for all
the known facts.

your may be correct and Americans are just homicidal maniacs who would
find other ways to kill each other at such a high rate without guns

That's probably the truest thing you've said yet.

See, it's not the presence of weapons that makes people kill.....but
the willingness to do so.

We need to address those with that willingness as a short term solution
and the causes of what produces that willingness as a long term
solution.

IMO, a lot of our problem ties into the War on Drugs which fuels all
manner of violence in our society. From people committing violent
crimes to finance their 'fix' to dealers killing each other over 'turf'
to drug lords fighting with law enforcement to protect their 'product'.

I've seen statistics in the US that indicate that over 50% of all
violent crime (including homicide) involves illegal drugs and that some
90% of violent criminals have detectable levels of illegal drugs in
their system when arrested.

A similar massive violence occurred with prohibition, and largely ended
with the repeal of prohibition.

Now don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no use for illegal drugs, and
I believe those that use them tend towards the stupid, but it does IMO
do much to create the elements necessary for much of our violent crime
and homicides.

We've been trying to control illegal drugs going on 60 years now
without success. Maybe it's time to consider doing something else
instead?

unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an
impersonal way of killing

So do bombs, traps, crossbows, cars, and a multitude of other means.

If this is the extent of your opposition to the points I've made, then
perhaps I've made a slight difference.

IMO we need to focus our attention and energy on the actual problem and
causes of that problem and quit wasting time and resources trying to deal
with one means of instrumentality.

There is no way that the situation re guns in the US will be solved. The
killing will continue

Of course, because the situation with killing in the US isn't about the
guns.

I predict that even if somehow every gun on the planet were to disappear and
the knowledge of how to make guns was utterly eliminated....the killing
could continue basically unchanged....except for the means used.

See...the problem isn't guns, or even weapons. It's with people willing to
kill. Until you address that and do something about that...the killing will
continue no matter what the gun control laws are.

Something that there is evidence of. After all, everyplace have knives and
few have any sort of knife control, but I bet if you look you will find a
similar level of disparity in fatal stabbings as well. Of course, the match
isn't perfect since there is the well known (at least for most people)
substitution effect, but I would bet the number of murders involving a knife
in Canada is a fraction of those in the US. Is that because Canada has
strict knife control? I doubt it.

So how exactly does your theory explain why the other means of murder are
also much lower in many of the countries you consider "comparable" to the
US?

Your theory can't handle that, and I doubt you even care because IMO
pointing at homicides is just your excuse. You don't care whether it makes
sense or not. You want to prohibit guns and you're looking for an excuse to
do it.