Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebaratthe
endoftheuniverse.org> wrote (in <qmphsvg8rca5e89fufq47n9dspc9kumavr@4ax.
com&gt about 'Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad', on
Sat, 29 Nov 2003:

The gas chamber killed in seconds and was not painless if one
contrasts the duration and writhing of an electrocution execution.

There is a great deal of evidence that people took/take several minutes
to die in apparent agony. Do a web search.

A firing squad is probably fairly painless, since death is rather
instantaneous. Gotta hurt for a second though, eh!

Probably not as much as that. May actually be humane, but the maimed
body is undignified.

I would like to see a curare dart used for paralysis. Last words are
given the previous night. No fuss... no muss.

Curare is ONE component of the normal lethal injection, AIUI. Used
alone, the effects are clearly inhumane. I couldn't find this on the
web, but try a toxicology textbook.

The 1793 french "physician" designed guillotine was decidedly
painless.

Again, there is evidence that the heads survived for an appreciable
time.

If one renders the convict asleep or unconscious at the time
of the execution.. how much more humane can we be to these bastards?

'Humane killing' is not the point, IMHO. If anything, it dilutes the
deterrent effect for 'no-hopers' anyway. Long-term denial of liberty
with hard punishment, short of 'cruel, and inhumane', is more of a
deterrent, I think.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

 

[Reg Edwards]

I strongly suspect all forms of
execution, except lethal injection, has some significant amount of
associated pain.

=============================

From a spectator's viewpoint the pain may last only a few milliseconds. But
as experienced by the victim the pain lasts for ETERNITY !

Is this fair ?

 

[Madis Kaal - change usern]

Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad.

Just came over the Fox News.

and what makes you think this is important news for electronics engineers?

Well I (as an electronic engineer) find it quite interesting and suprising
that he can operate a knife and fork.

ROFL!

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:34:10 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> Gave us:

I strongly suspect all forms of
execution, except lethal injection, has some significant amount of
associated pain.

=============================

From a spectator's viewpoint the pain may last only a few milliseconds. But
as experienced by the victim the pain lasts for ETERNITY !

Is this fair ?

Victim? A convicted killer or other capital offender, sentenced to
death is hardly a victim.

All the better if his pain does last for an eternity.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:54:26 -0000, "Mjolinor" <mjolinor@hotmail.com>
Gave us:

"Madis Kaal - change username to mast for mail address" <honeypot@nomad.ee
wrote in message news:3fc7becc$1_1@news.estpak.ee...
Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad.

Just came over the Fox News.

and what makes you think this is important news for electronics engineers?


Well I (as an electronic engineer) find it quite interesting and suprising
that he can operate a knife and fork.

Actually, electrical engineer is the proper term, even for those in

careers in analog electronics, and digital electronics.

Electrical engineering isn't *all* about power, and power
distribution... however...

"Electronic engineering" is a college ploy.

In the electronics realm and electrical power realm, it IS all about
power, and power distribution from the micro to the macro level.

The knife and fork joke is funny as hell, though. This guy gets to
push the nation's biggest buttons...

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Winfield Hill
<Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote (in <bqanda01fvr@drn.newsguy.com&gt
about 'Zombies are real', on Sat, 29 Nov 2003:

John Woodgate wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote:

Kevin Aylward wrote...

No such thing as zombies.

Actually, you're wrong; do some research.

I get 549 kilohits by putting 'zombies' into Google. ...
It says that 'zombies' are living people under the influence
of drugs. I can believe that.

Close but no cigar. Poor research terms. Add Wade Davis and
tetrodotoxin. But skip the Hollywood Serpent and Rainbow movie.

Some example sites:
http://groups.msn.com/TheAlchemistsCorner/thezombiepoison.msnw
http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/philosophy/critical/corbett-davis.html

I have a serious complaint. I spent over two hours at that first site.
You should add a 'Do you have time to spare?' warning when you posts the
URLs of site like that. (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

 

[Harry Conover]

"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message news:<p8txb.240786$ao4.862310@attbi_s51>...

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news3lcsvgue9050kiqerrhp13rqu0sc8v6eg@4ax.com...
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:59:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad.

He must *love* air travel. A 26hr round-trip for a 2hr visit! I only
wish I were that keen on flying.

Flying in AF1 isn't like coach... Also, he isn't footing the bill. I bet
they got lots of nice photos that'll be splattered all over TV news tonight.
Great PR.

Then too, you have to give the guy credit for having the character and
the guts to pull this trip off. After all, landing AF1 at Bagdad
Airport takes more than a small bit of character and courage.

It is to be expeced that many of the Democratic hopefuls will bitch
and moan, which hopefully will tend to thin the herd. I note that ALL
of the more serious Democratic contenders said that it was the right
thing for Bush to do.

Then too, we all know who the "Black Horse" candidate who will carry
the Democratic banner in 2004 will be, and IMHO it isn't any one of
the already announced candidates! Wait and see.

Harry C.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On 29 Nov 2003 13:45:26 -0800, hhc314@yahoo.com (Harry Conover) wrote:

"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message news:<p8txb.240786$ao4.862310@attbi_s51>...
"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news3lcsvgue9050kiqerrhp13rqu0sc8v6eg@4ax.com...
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:59:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad.

He must *love* air travel. A 26hr round-trip for a 2hr visit! I only
wish I were that keen on flying.

Flying in AF1 isn't like coach... Also, he isn't footing the bill. I bet
they got lots of nice photos that'll be splattered all over TV news tonight.
Great PR.

Then too, you have to give the guy credit for having the character and
the guts to pull this trip off. After all, landing AF1 at Bagdad
Airport takes more than a small bit of character and courage.

It is to be expeced that many of the Democratic hopefuls will bitch
and moan, which hopefully will tend to thin the herd. I note that ALL
of the more serious Democratic contenders said that it was the right
thing for Bush to do.

Then too, we all know who the "Black Horse" candidate who will carry
the Democratic banner in 2004 will be, and IMHO it isn't any one of
the already announced candidates! Wait and see.

Harry C.

You mean the "Bitch Witch" ?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John S. Dyson]

In article <rrlgsv0u8ek5mbj139gdpo6sv90tn3h1ph@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> writes:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:55:47 +0000 (UTC), toor@iquest.net (John S.
Dyson) Gave us:

In article <sn2gsv83qrlsebkaqk0tlhtpeimcmrek64@4ax.com>,
no1@no1.com writes:


In Texas, the governor does not have to the power to overrule
the decision of the Texas Board of Pardons; which ruled
against her. The most he (W) could do is give her a temperary
reprieve.

That would be Mr. Idiot to you.

If you read my post accurately, you will see that I refered to a stay
of execution. The hope was that if Bush had extended her sentence the
30 days, there may have been time to bring some sanity into the
situation.

Hadn't there already been the allowed 30day stay? The governor
in Texas doesnt' quite have the same power as the president for
the equivalent federal laws.

The president has the power to commute any charge, conviction, or
sentence in any state or possession of the United States.

I didn't know that the president had the right to commute a state

sentence... Perhaps the constitution is literally interpreted on
this matter (rather than re-interpreted into meaninglessness.)

John

 

[Tim Auton]

DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
[eye for an eye]

Our wondrous governments claim that it costs $20k to $40k per year
per inmate for a regular population life sentence convict.

Sorry, but you way costs too much. If the facts in the case are
bona fide truth, the guy goes right after the trial.

Deterrent is the goal, and it fucking works too.

Where has it worked?


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

 

[Rich Grise]

Drug overdose, the clear winner! %-}

Cheers!
Rich

Paul Burridge wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:55:05 -0700, Jim Thompson
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

I think it's Utah that still allows hanging and firing squad choices.

Which would you choose, then, Jim? Personally, given limitless choice,
I'd prefer to be blown to bits by being strapped to a large bomb.
Should be quite a buzz.
--

"I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it."
- Winston Churchill

 

[John S. Dyson]

In article <7ce4e226.0311291345.30ffa18e@posting.google.com>,
hhc314@yahoo.com (Harry Conover) writes:

"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message news:<p8txb.240786$ao4.862310@attbi_s51>...
"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news3lcsvgue9050kiqerrhp13rqu0sc8v6eg@4ax.com...
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:59:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad.

He must *love* air travel. A 26hr round-trip for a 2hr visit! I only
wish I were that keen on flying.

Flying in AF1 isn't like coach... Also, he isn't footing the bill. I bet
they got lots of nice photos that'll be splattered all over TV news tonight.
Great PR.

It is to be expeced that many of the Democratic hopefuls will bitch
and moan, which hopefully will tend to thin the herd. I note that ALL
of the more serious Democratic contenders said that it was the right
thing for Bush to do.

It CERTAINLY increases their apparent character by HONESTLY congradulating

the pres when appropriate. This helps to strengthen the effect
when VALID criticism is asserted.

All too often, the Dems condem everything that the President does,
and lose ALL credibility because they are wrong more often than
not. There is plenty to VALIDLY criticize the president, but it
is fairly clear that the Democrat candidates are either too
stupid or just doing shotgun criticism to see if anything sticks.

Pathetic indeed, esp when (again) there are adequate issues to
validly criticize the pres.

John

 

[John S. Dyson]

In article <nr5isvg5rers8qsoaars42rm9iuae432sq@4ax.com>,
Tim Auton <tim.auton@uton.[group sex without the y on the end]> writes:

DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
[eye for an eye]
Our wondrous governments claim that it costs $20k to $40k per year
per inmate for a regular population life sentence convict.

Sorry, but you way costs too much. If the facts in the case are
bona fide truth, the guy goes right after the trial.

Deterrent is the goal, and it fucking works too.

Where has it worked?

When an inmate is 'executed', then they are permanently deterred .

John

 

[Ernst Keller]

Jim Thompson <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad.

Just came over the Fox News.

He was very brave und tok no risk(like with Vietname wich he avoidet in his

braveness) and stayed just 2h at the Airport. Just a big mouth.

Ernst

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Ernst Keller wrote:

He was very brave und tok no risk(like with Vietname wich he avoidet in his
braveness) ... Just a big mouth.

Ernst

What are you talking about? He bravely stood guard against a possible
invasion by Mexico in that time frame

 

[Tim Auton]

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

Ernst Keller wrote:

He was very brave und tok no risk(like with Vietname wich he avoidet in his
braveness) ... Just a big mouth.

Ernst

What are you talking about? He bravely stood guard against a possible
invasion by Mexico in that time frame

Except for the last two years when he was, uh, you know, uh,
defending, eh, somewhere else. The bars and parties he was at didn't
get invaded either, so if you think about it he did his job!


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Tim Auton wrote:

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

Ernst Keller wrote:

He was very brave und tok no risk(like with Vietname wich he avoidet in his
braveness) ... Just a big mouth.

Ernst

What are you talking about? He bravely stood guard against a possible
invasion by Mexico in that time frame


Except for the last two years when he was, uh, you know, uh,
defending, eh, somewhere else. The bars and parties he was at didn't
get invaded either, so if you think about it he did his job!

You will get no argument from me: compared to some of our previous
Presidents, this individual is a bit less. But he is President and
Commander-in-Chief at this point in time so he rates and WILL receive
total dedication and willing obedience from those who serve him.

 

[Ross Mac]

"Jim Thompson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:eaqesv00jbne2sfs4s7puot3goc8k5idhc@4ax.com...

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:46:59 GMT, no1@no1.com wrote:

Whereas I support George W. and the allies in their action in Iraq, I
can't get it out of my mind what he did to a young girl in February of
1998 when he was governor of Texas. I'm talking about Karla Faye
Tucker. She was involved in a rather brutal murder in 1983 which was
not premeditated and for which she took full responsibility. In her 15
years in jail awaiting execution, she rahabilitated herself so well
that even hardened guards spoke up for her.

On the eve of her execution, speaking on his right to grant her a 30
day stay of execution, George W. said he had to hand her fate over to
a 'higher power'. Some wag has since pointed out that he was the
higher power and questioned if he realized that. He further opined
that George was a coward. Anyway, he allowed her to be the first woman
executed in Texas in over a hundred years.

I have recently read a report by a reporter who interviewed George W.
about her plea for clemency. Instead of being man enough to account
for his actions, he took the course of belittling her for having
asked. No matter what she did due to a severely corrupted childhood,
and being heavily strung out on drugs at the time of her crime, she
died as a good kid...a decent human being. And Bush stood by trying to
collect political Brownie points.

Happy Thanksgiving, George!!



[snip]

Suppose I murder you and then get religion. Should I go free? Want
to test the concept?

There should be a one year time limit on appeals... expedited at the
expense of the state... then hang 'em. None of this dawdling for 20
years.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Try em and Fry em Jim!.....Seems 5 years should cover it...here in

California it takes over 20 years....We have a death penalty voted back in
many years ago, but the current politicians don't support the law...so there
ya have it! Forty gran a year to keep them around and then give them the
needle after 20 years or so....but what the heck...the whole country knows
how screwed up this state is.....Happy Holidays to all.....Ross

 

[Ross Mac]

"Tim Auton" <tim.auton@uton.[group sex without the y on the end]> wrote in
message news:nr5isvg5rers8qsoaars42rm9iuae432sq@4ax.com...

DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
[eye for an eye]
Our wondrous governments claim that it costs $20k to $40k per year
per inmate for a regular population life sentence convict.

Sorry, but you way costs too much. If the facts in the case are
bona fide truth, the guy goes right after the trial.

Deterrent is the goal, and it fucking works too.

Where has it worked?


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

You are right time detterent has not worked, but the sucker that gets the
needle will not escape or kill in prison again will he?....Not trying to
flame ya...just an opinion!...Ross

 

[Ross Mac]

"Kevin Aylward" <kevindotaylwardEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mFNxb.182$2b7.108@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net...

John Woodgate wrote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Jones <127.0.0.1@?.?> wrote
(in <DNKdnQLwBuZJ51qiRVn-gg@buckeye-express.com&gt about 'Bush Has
Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad', on Fri, 28 Nov 2003:

Perhaps oneday, scientists will be able to clone the deceased, and at
least bring back a portion of what was taken. Perhaps then, as in the
case of the Texas lady, the law could be bent a little.

Perhaps one day we'll be absolutely certain that the person convicted
IS the murderer. Until then, the irrevocable punishment of death
seems to me to be ruled out.

That's exactly my sentiments. In principle, I have no moral qualms
whatever in the execution of serial type killers. The issue is that,
executing an innocent person is *never* acceptable. This effectively
means one must outlaw the death penalty.

Of course, there is also the problem of punishing anyone without
absolute proof, but in the real would, there is no choice. We have to
accept some false guilt, but we don't have to accept false executions.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/index.html

"Understanding" itself requires consciousness,
therefore consciousness cannot be "understood"
without referring to itself for the explanation,
therefore the "hard problem" of consciousness,
is intrinsically unsolvable as it is self referral.


No system is perfect....I am sure all of us would not want an innocent

person sent to death row. Having said that, how can you make any system
perfect and why is life in prison any better than death....to me, I would
rather be put to death than spend my final years incarcerated.....Ross