Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad

[Ross Mac]

"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:45nhsvckc9ko88dbopjaoc4kvmr2f7jvdp@4ax.com...

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:24:02 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> Gave us:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote (in <bqa72c02q0q@drn.newsguy.com&gt
about 'Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad', on Sat, 29
Nov 2003:
Kevin Aylward wrote...

No such thing as zombies.

Actually, you're wrong; do some research.

I get 549 kilohits by putting 'zombies' into Google. The first few pages
seem to have nothing to do with voodoo. So I was going to ask you for a
Web reference, but a Google for 'voodoo', while producing over 1.5
megahits, had a relevant URL on the first page:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/voodoo.htm

It says that 'zombies' are living people under the influence of drugs. I
can believe that.


You need to rent or buy and watch the film "The Serpent and The
Rainbow"

It is based on a true story. About zombies.

How bout that...this thread went from Bush in Iraq, to Hillary in
Afghanistan to capital punishment, to zombies.....
What's next, a new design for the electric chair?.....just having some
fun....Happy Holidays to all....Ross

 

[Ross Mac]

"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3FC93CF0.8040206@nospam.com...

Ernst Keller wrote:


He was very brave und tok no risk(like with Vietname wich he avoidet in
his
braveness) ... Just a big mouth.

Ernst

What are you talking about? He bravely stood guard against a possible
invasion by Mexico in that time frame

Living in California, I have to say, the invasion was
successful!....hehehe.....Ross

 

[Tim Auton]

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

Tim Auton wrote:
[Bush's notional cervix]
Except for the last two years when he was, uh, you know, uh,
defending, eh, somewhere else. The bars and parties he was at didn't
get invaded either, so if you think about it he did his job!

You will get no argument from me: compared to some of our previous
Presidents, this individual is a bit less. But he is President and
Commander-in-Chief at this point in time so he rates and WILL receive
total dedication and willing obedience from those who serve him.

Now that's where the US system falls down in my view. The head of
state problem - the guy becomes the nation, therefore attacking the
guy becomes associated with attacking the nation.

To a Monarch I will happily give me dedication and willing obedience.
If Elisabeth asked me to jump off a cliff I would (ask me when we get
to Charles though . If Blair did I'd tell him to go away, though
with slightly more colourful language.

I can't deny it's a god awful travesty of democracy, but Head of State
is largely a ceremonial (putting people up in your house, cutting
ribbons, things like that) so it doesn't really impact the democratic
process. We're almost rid of the rest of the hereditary system and
looking for an adequate solution (ie one not so dirtied by politics)
to replace the upper house. I suspect we'll get rid of the monarchy
when they don't want the job any more, rather than when we have a
better idea. I imagine then we'll move the way of the Germans and have
a low-key president as a replacement.

I'm most interested in a good solution to the upper-house problem
though. And no, direct election (without wholesale changes to election
campaigning) is *not* democratic. The first democratic revolution was
about giving people the choice, the next will be about giving them the
information to make an informed choice.


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

 

[Ross Mac]

"Madis Kaal - change username to mast for mail address" <honeypot@nomad.ee>
wrote in message news:3fc7becc$1_1@news.estpak.ee...

Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad.

Just came over the Fox News.

and what makes you think this is important news for electronics engineers?

One of the nice things about this group is that you can get off on a tangent
and not get bounced by a moderator....Not to be rude, but if you are really
bothered, don't read the posts or find another group.....as you can see from
the large amount of posts, the users are enjoying this thread. So what the
heck, post and enjoy!

 

[Ross Mac]

"Rich Grise" <spam@spam.org> wrote in message
news:3FC927C0.9C117745@spam.org...

Drug overdose, the clear winner! %-}

Cheers!
Rich

Paul Burridge wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:55:05 -0700, Jim Thompson
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

I think it's Utah that still allows hanging and firing squad choices.

Which would you choose, then, Jim? Personally, given limitless choice,
I'd prefer to be blown to bits by being strapped to a large bomb.
Should be quite a buzz.
--

"I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it."
-
Winston Churchill

You sure you wouldn't prefer the electric chair...after all, this is an
electrical newsgroup....hehehe....

 

[Tim Auton]

"Ross Mac" <macroeng@example.invalid> wrote:

> wrote in
message news:nr5isvg5rers8qsoaars42rm9iuae432sq@4ax.com...
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
[eye for an eye]
Our wondrous governments claim that it costs $20k to $40k per year
per inmate for a regular population life sentence convict.

Sorry, but you way costs too much. If the facts in the case are
bona fide truth, the guy goes right after the trial.

Deterrent is the goal, and it fucking works too.

Where has it worked?

You are right time detterent has not worked, but the sucker that gets the
needle will not escape or kill in prison again will he?....Not trying to
flame ya...just an opinion!...Ross

I can't deny it doesn't reduce the probability of them killing again
to zero. Is that worth more than the opportunity of trying to
understand why they are the way they are though?


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

 

[Tim Auton]

"Ross Mac" <macroeng@example.invalid> wrote:
[Death penalty]

No system is perfect....I am sure all of us would not want an innocent
person sent to death row. Having said that, how can you make any system
perfect

You can't make it perfect. You can ensure its inevitable mistakes are
not irreversible.

and why is life in prison any better than death....to me, I would
rather be put to death than spend my final years incarcerated.

We are talking about punishing murderers - didn't you just answer your
own question?


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Tim Auton wrote:

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

Tim Auton wrote:

[Bush's notional cervix]

Except for the last two years when he was, uh, you know, uh,
defending, eh, somewhere else. The bars and parties he was at didn't
get invaded either, so if you think about it he did his job!

You will get no argument from me: compared to some of our previous
Presidents, this individual is a bit less. But he is President and
Commander-in-Chief at this point in time so he rates and WILL receive
total dedication and willing obedience from those who serve him.


Now that's where the US system falls down in my view. The head of
state problem - the guy becomes the nation, therefore attacking the
guy becomes associated with attacking the nation.

This is true but not by your viewpoint. The US government is a system of
checks and balances. The President could not have conducted a war of
this magnitude without Congressional approval since that particular
branch is responsible for financing the Executive branch. Since all the
parties are elected by the populace they act in accordance with the
national will. Now- no-one says the will is unanimous- there are all
sorts of retarded recalcitrants, such as the Libertarians, but the
majority of the population is rational and supportive of the actions.
The flip-side here is that Bush is not the most extreme individual we
are capable of putting in office, so you better be nice

To a Monarch I will happily give me dedication and willing obedience.
If Elisabeth asked me to jump off a cliff I would (ask me when we get
to Charles though . If Blair did I'd tell him to go away, though
with slightly more colourful language.

I can't deny it's a god awful travesty of democracy, but Head of State
is largely a ceremonial (putting people up in your house, cutting
ribbons, things like that) so it doesn't really impact the democratic
process. We're almost rid of the rest of the hereditary system and
looking for an adequate solution (ie one not so dirtied by politics)
to replace the upper house. I suspect we'll get rid of the monarchy
when they don't want the job any more, rather than when we have a
better idea. I imagine then we'll move the way of the Germans and have
a low-key president as a replacement.

I'm most interested in a good solution to the upper-house problem
though. And no, direct election (without wholesale changes to election
campaigning) is *not* democratic. The first democratic revolution was
about giving people the choice, the next will be about giving them the
information to make an informed choice.

Good luck-we would have strung them up long ago.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Ross Mac wrote:

"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3FC93CF0.8040206@nospam.com...


Ernst Keller wrote:


He was very brave und tok no risk(like with Vietname wich he avoidet in

his

braveness) ... Just a big mouth.

Ernst

What are you talking about? He bravely stood guard against a possible
invasion by Mexico in that time frame



Living in California, I have to say, the invasion was
successful!....hehehe.....Ross

Hmm- well the place did belong to them originally

 

[Ross Mac]

"Tim Auton" <tim.auton@uton.[group sex without the y on the end]> wrote in
message news:6vjisvgtjbaqie79oq1go5ks3i9lm262f4@4ax.com...

"Ross Mac" <macroeng@example.invalid> wrote:
"Tim Auton" <tim.auton@uton.[group sex without the y on the end]> wrote
in
message news:nr5isvg5rers8qsoaars42rm9iuae432sq@4ax.com...
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
[eye for an eye]
Our wondrous governments claim that it costs $20k to $40k per year
per inmate for a regular population life sentence convict.

Sorry, but you way costs too much. If the facts in the case are
bona fide truth, the guy goes right after the trial.

Deterrent is the goal, and it fucking works too.

Where has it worked?

You are right time detterent has not worked, but the sucker that gets the
needle will not escape or kill in prison again will he?....Not trying to
flame ya...just an opinion!...Ross

I can't deny it doesn't reduce the probability of them killing again
to zero. Is that worth more than the opportunity of trying to
understand why they are the way they are though?


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

Point well taken, but the prison wardens, that I have listened to on TV and
the media, seem to think there is no such thing as rehabilitation. Why
people do the terrible things they do escapes me. I personally do not know a
whole lot about the corrections system, but stand by my
convictions......have a great holiday Tim, Ross

 

[Ross Mac]

"Tim Auton" <tim.auton@uton.[group sex without the y on the end]> wrote in
message news:5ekisv4g639a3tl2eggjsmosb0ampc5676@4ax.com...

"Ross Mac" <macroeng@example.invalid> wrote:
[Death penalty]
No system is perfect....I am sure all of us would not want an innocent
person sent to death row. Having said that, how can you make any system
perfect

You can't make it perfect. You can ensure its inevitable mistakes are
not irreversible.

and why is life in prison any better than death....to me, I would
rather be put to death than spend my final years incarcerated.

We are talking about punishing murderers - didn't you just answer your
own question?


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

Meant to say the "system is NOT perfect".....typo there....take care Tim,
Ross

 

[Tim Auton]

"Ross Mac" <macroeng@example.invalid> wrote:

> wrote in
message news:6vjisvgtjbaqie79oq1go5ks3i9lm262f4@4ax.com...
"Ross Mac" <macroeng@example.invalid> wrote:
"Tim Auton" <tim.auton@uton.[group sex without the y on the end]> wrote
in
message news:nr5isvg5rers8qsoaars42rm9iuae432sq@4ax.com...
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
[eye for an eye]
Our wondrous governments claim that it costs $20k to $40k per year
per inmate for a regular population life sentence convict.

Sorry, but you way costs too much. If the facts in the case are
bona fide truth, the guy goes right after the trial.

Deterrent is the goal, and it fucking works too.

Where has it worked?

You are right time detterent has not worked, but the sucker that gets the
needle will not escape or kill in prison again will he?....Not trying to
flame ya...just an opinion!...Ross

I can't deny it doesn't reduce the probability of them killing again
to zero. Is that worth more than the opportunity of trying to
understand why they are the way they are though?

Point well taken, but the prison wardens, that I have listened to on TV and
the media, seem to think there is no such thing as rehabilitation. Why
people do the terrible things they do escapes me.

Exactly.


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

 

[Tim Auton]

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

Tim Auton wrote:
Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
Tim Auton wrote:
[Bush's notional cervix]
Except for the last two years when he was, uh, you know, uh,
defending, eh, somewhere else. The bars and parties he was at didn't
get invaded either, so if you think about it he did his job!

You will get no argument from me: compared to some of our previous
Presidents, this individual is a bit less. But he is President and
Commander-in-Chief at this point in time so he rates and WILL receive
total dedication and willing obedience from those who serve him.

Now that's where the US system falls down in my view. The head of
state problem - the guy becomes the nation, therefore attacking the
guy becomes associated with attacking the nation.

This is true but not by your viewpoint. The US government is a system of
checks and balances.

I meant becomes the nation in the philosophical sense, I didn't mean I
thought he was omnipotent. The checks and balances in the US
constitution work remarkably well I must admit. Without the 2 party
system they would probably even work as the authors intended.

The President could not have conducted a war of
this magnitude without Congressional approval since that particular
branch is responsible for financing the Executive branch. Since all the
parties are elected by the populace they act in accordance with the
national will.

National will? Look at the mechanisms by which the national will is
decided upon and measured.


Tim
--
And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a
thousand thousand fold. The din of a million keyboards like unto a great
storm shall cover the earth, and the followers of Mammon shall tremble.
- The Book of Mozilla, 3:31

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Tim Auton wrote:

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

Tim Auton wrote:

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

Tim Auton wrote:

[Bush's notional cervix]

Except for the last two years when he was, uh, you know, uh,
defending, eh, somewhere else. The bars and parties he was at didn't
get invaded either, so if you think about it he did his job!

You will get no argument from me: compared to some of our previous
Presidents, this individual is a bit less. But he is President and
Commander-in-Chief at this point in time so he rates and WILL receive
total dedication and willing obedience from those who serve him.

Now that's where the US system falls down in my view. The head of
state problem - the guy becomes the nation, therefore attacking the
guy becomes associated with attacking the nation.

This is true but not by your viewpoint. The US government is a system of
checks and balances.


I meant becomes the nation in the philosophical sense, I didn't mean I
thought he was omnipotent. The checks and balances in the US
constitution work remarkably well I must admit. Without the 2 party
system they would probably even work as the authors intended.


The President could not have conducted a war of
this magnitude without Congressional approval since that particular
branch is responsible for financing the Executive branch. Since all the
parties are elected by the populace they act in accordance with the
national will.


National will? Look at the mechanisms by which the national will is
decided upon and measured.


Tim

It could be worse, someone like the "great communicator", Ronald Reagan,
was capable of convincing the vast majority of just what the national
will should be quite effectively. There has never been another like him
before or since.

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <6MabVVG1ZPy$EwD$@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk says...

I read in sci.electronics.design that DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebaratthe
endoftheuniverse.org> wrote (in <qmphsvg8rca5e89fufq47n9dspc9kumavr@4ax.
com&gt about 'Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad', on
Sat, 29 Nov 2003:

The gas chamber killed in seconds and was not painless if one
contrasts the duration and writhing of an electrocution execution.

There is a great deal of evidence that people took/take several minutes
to die in apparent agony. Do a web search.

By electrocution, or gas? Perhaps there were botched jobs, but
the idea is to seize the brain at the first impulse. Sure there
were some pretty gruesome events with flame and all, but I doubt
the perp was "alive". BTW, did the perp worry about his victims?

A firing squad is probably fairly painless, since death is rather
instantaneous. Gotta hurt for a second though, eh!

Probably not as much as that. May actually be humane, but the maimed
body is undignified.

"Undignified"?! Who cares about dignity? Did the perp care abut
the victim's "dignity"? The family's "dignity"? Please!

I would like to see a curare dart used for paralysis. Last words are
given the previous night. No fuss... no muss.

Curare is ONE component of the normal lethal injection, AIUI. Used
alone, the effects are clearly inhumane. I couldn't find this on the
web, but try a toxicology textbook.

You go find it. I think you'll find the "lethal injection" is a
cocktail of all sorts of opiates (or their equivalents). Curare
may be in the cocktail, but the idea is to put the perps to
"sleep", much like the dogs and cat I've had to put down. My
animals didn't harm anyone though.

The 1793 french "physician" designed guillotine was decidedly
painless.

Again, there is evidence that the heads survived for an appreciable
time.

Nonsense. The loss of blood pressure (even a relatively minor
obstruction) to the brain causes instant shut-town of conscious
brain.

If one renders the convict asleep or unconscious at the time
of the execution.. how much more humane can we be to these bastards?

'Humane killing' is not the point, IMHO. If anything, it dilutes the
deterrent effect for 'no-hopers' anyway. Long-term denial of liberty
with hard punishment, short of 'cruel, and inhumane', is more of a
deterrent, I think.

The "deterrent" isn't the issue. Recitivism is nil for the
capital gang. You cannot say the same for those sentences to
"life".

Then there is the moral issue; those who have declared that
civilization is their enemy, deserve for civilization to react
the same.

--
Keith

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <6vjisvgtjbaqie79oq1go5ks3i9lm262f4@4ax.com>,
tim.auton@uton.[group says...

"Ross Mac" <macroeng@example.invalid> wrote:
"Tim Auton" <tim.auton@uton.[group sex without the y on the end]> wrote in
message news:nr5isvg5rers8qsoaars42rm9iuae432sq@4ax.com...
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
[eye for an eye]
Our wondrous governments claim that it costs $20k to $40k per year
per inmate for a regular population life sentence convict.

Sorry, but you way costs too much. If the facts in the case are
bona fide truth, the guy goes right after the trial.

Deterrent is the goal, and it fucking works too.

Where has it worked?

You are right time detterent has not worked, but the sucker that gets the
needle will not escape or kill in prison again will he?....Not trying to
flame ya...just an opinion!...Ross

I can't deny it doesn't reduce the probability of them killing again
to zero. Is that worth more than the opportunity of trying to
understand why they are the way they are though?

Understand? Ted Bundy? Mohamad/Williams? Not likely! What's
to understand? Plug the bastards in. They're not worth the bits.

--
Keith

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <bqb0tm$2jur$6@news.iquest.net>, toor@iquest.net
says...

In article <rrlgsv0u8ek5mbj139gdpo6sv90tn3h1ph@4ax.com>,
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> writes:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:55:47 +0000 (UTC), toor@iquest.net (John S.
Dyson) Gave us:

In article <sn2gsv83qrlsebkaqk0tlhtpeimcmrek64@4ax.com>,
no1@no1.com writes:


In Texas, the governor does not have to the power to overrule
the decision of the Texas Board of Pardons; which ruled
against her. The most he (W) could do is give her a temperary
reprieve.

That would be Mr. Idiot to you.

If you read my post accurately, you will see that I refered to a stay
of execution. The hope was that if Bush had extended her sentence the
30 days, there may have been time to bring some sanity into the
situation.

Hadn't there already been the allowed 30day stay? The governor
in Texas doesnt' quite have the same power as the president for
the equivalent federal laws.

The president has the power to commute any charge, conviction, or
sentence in any state or possession of the United States.

I didn't know that the president had the right to commute a state
sentence... Perhaps the constitution is literally interpreted on
this matter (rather than re-interpreted into meaninglessness.)

Absolutely, the President can commute/pardon anyone for any
offense. Interestingly the Constitution seems to only grant such
powers for "for Offenses against the United States...".

Some interesting dialog at:

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_pard.html

--
Keith

 

[R. Steve Walz]

no1@no1.com wrote:

This is to assure almost instant death, a minimum of bruising,
and neither strangulation nor beheading. Properly done, death is by
dislocation of thr third or fourth cervical vertibrae.

this is getting pretty gruesome, but to the point.

Once the vertebrae is snapped, how do you know the person isn't
feeling anything? He would be essentially a parapalegic and couldn't
move his limbs, but his brain could be very much alive because feeling
is still there above the break. He could be just hanging there in
incredible agony choking to death. Some of these people are not
pronounced dead till 25 minutes later.

The thing is we don't know, and can't know what kind of suffering is
going on, whether by hanging, electrocution or gas.

My question is why do we have the right to impose that on anyone and
still call ourselves civilized beings? I can't even accept lethal
injection, because a killer is a killer, is a killer..... Legalizing
it doesn't change the facts.
--------------------------

My ONLY qualm is certainty, eliminate that and as far as *I* give a
shit, we can do what we want, and call ourselves what we want, there
is NO ultimate authority BUT US!

Any God who wants to challenge that can control my mind to try to make
me feel guilty and then pretend that whatever he is torturing is
actually me instead of someone else. It won't be, even if it thinks
so!

Killing people is a perfectly acceptable means of scaring the shit
out of other people who might want to imitate those guys, and at the
same time, get our rocks off killing such a bastard, it's too bad we
don't have the balls to up the ante and torture him for weeks and
keep him alive and conscious by extradordinary medical means while
doing it and putting it on as the halftime show on NBC sports!!

It's too bad we don't haul bin Laden over here and do it to him,
and with Arafat and Saddam, and any other of those bastards!

We're civilized if we defend civilization, and that's fine with me!

Civilized means Just, not some gentle fucking weenie who is asking
for someone to kill 3000 of his people! And Justice to murderers
like them is a torturous death while being laughed at and getting
his nuts exploded with Vise-Grips!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:04:11 +0000, Tim Auton <tim.auton@uton.[group
sex without the y on the end]> Gave us:

DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
[eye for an eye]
Our wondrous governments claim that it costs $20k to $40k per year
per inmate for a regular population life sentence convict.

Sorry, but you way costs too much. If the facts in the case are
bona fide truth, the guy goes right after the trial.

Deterrent is the goal, and it fucking works too.

Where has it worked?



Dumbshit. You will never see that result, because the people that

decided not to commit a capital offense never post data to any
statistical analysis that would track it, and provide a feedback chain
for the benefits of capital punishment. Doh!