Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad

Jim Thompson · Nov 29, 2003

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:06:15 +0000, Paul Burridge
<pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote:

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:29:34 -0700, Jim Thompson
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

There should be a one year time limit on appeals... expedited at the
expense of the state... then hang 'em. None of this dawdling for 20
years.

It's certainly not cricket to keep someone hanging around for 20 years
before executing them, I agree (but for different reasons). But you
don't "hang 'em" in *any* state, now, do you? Is it not the case that
the Chair isn't even used these days?

480)460-2350 | |
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Jim Thompson · Nov 29, 2003

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:06:00 GMT, Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote:

In article <bq82hk$jii$1@reader2.panix.com>,
Brian Trosko <btrosko@panix.com> wrote:

In alt.primenet.recovery John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

Perhaps one day we'll be absolutely certain that the person convicted IS
the murderer. Until then, the irrevocable punishment of death seems to
me to be ruled out.

Keeping someone in jail until they die of natural causes doesn't seem to
be any more revocable.

So by your argument, we should also abolish life sentences.

And this entire thread has precisely WHAT to do with any of the
newsgroups it has been crossposted to?

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Nov 29, 2003

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:30:28 +0200, Madis Kaal - change username to
mast for mail address <honeypot@nomad.ee> wrote:

Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad.

Just came over the Fox News.

and what makes you think this is important news for electronics engineers?

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Fred Bloggs · Nov 29, 2003

no1@no1.com wrote:

Whereas I support George W. and the allies in their action in Iraq, I
can't get it out of my mind what he did to a young girl in February of
1998 when he was governor of Texas. I'm talking about Karla Faye
Tucker. She was involved in a rather brutal murder in 1983 which was
not premeditated and for which she took full responsibility. In her 15
years in jail awaiting execution, she rahabilitated herself so well
that even hardened guards spoke up for her.

There are certain criminal acts where rehabilitation is not a
consideration and first degree murder is one of them. This means that
societal retribution and creating a persuasive example of punishment for
the purpose of inhibiting similarly minded individuals are the dominant
considerations. She was not executed for who she was, she was executed
for what she did. Society is prosecuting the crime and society will
decide what is best for itself, you can't have all sorts of personal
exceptions arising if you expect the system to have any good effect. The
track record for wrongful executions in the US is not so good though,
the official number is running at +200-something throughout history. If
you want to change that then stop whining about some white trash, and
start doing something about corrupt law enforcement and prosecutors, the
death sentence is most appropriate for some of the heinous acts they
have committed.

John Woodgate · Nov 29, 2003

I read in sci.electronics.design that Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote (in <3FC8D0DE.6050500@nospam.com&gt

about 'Bush Has Thanksgiving
Dinner with Troops in Baghdad', on Sat, 29 Nov 2003:

There are certain criminal acts where rehabilitation is not a
consideration and first degree murder is one of them. This means that
societal retribution and creating a persuasive example of punishment for
the purpose of inhibiting similarly minded individuals are the dominant
considerations. She was not executed for who she was, she was executed
for what she did.

So how many people did that deter? Experience of repeal of capital
punishment in Britain strongly suggests that it had very little
deterrent effect.

Society is prosecuting the crime and society will
decide what is best for itself, you can't have all sorts of personal
exceptions arising if you expect the system to have any good effect.

That seem to me to be a denial of justice to the individual. Justice
demands that ALL relevant matters are taken into account. But, of
course, in some parts of the USA, severe mental impairment is not
regarded as 'relevant'.

The
track record for wrongful executions in the US is not so good though,
the official number is running at +200-something throughout history.

That's just the 'official record', where the facts were so obvious that
denial was futile. If we knew the real number, it would almost certainly
be much larger.

If
you want to change that then stop whining about some white trash, and
start doing something about corrupt law enforcement and prosecutors, the
death sentence is most appropriate for some of the heinous acts they
have committed.

What was that saying about 'two wrongs'? The fact that some people are
corrupt has nothing to do with whether some other people should be
executed.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

Paul Burridge · Nov 29, 2003

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:55:05 -0700, Jim Thompson
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

I think it's Utah that still allows hanging and firing squad choices.

Which would you choose, then, Jim? Personally, given limitless choice,
I'd prefer to be blown to bits by being strapped to a large bomb.
Should be quite a buzz.

--

"I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it."
- Winston Churchill

Paul Burridge · Nov 29, 2003

The Kevster wrote:

What are you on about. There is no soul .

Says who? Oh, you in your "Theory of Consciousness" paper, I suppose.
My apologies for posting something that doesn't conform to it.

However, what ever it was that
was the person, i.e. the colective effective of billions of nurons, is
indeed all gone.

Zombies are no
good to anyone.

No such thing as zombies.

What else would a mature person cultured from a DNA sample be? How's
he supposed to acquire a personality, a character, a sense of
identity?
(Cue long-winded counterblast from Kev c/w a pointer to his collected
jottings on the subject...)
--

"I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it."
- Winston Churchill

Fred Bloggs · Nov 29, 2003

John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com
wrote (in <3FC8D0DE.6050500@nospam.com&gt about 'Bush Has Thanksgiving
Dinner with Troops in Baghdad', on Sat, 29 Nov 2003:

There are certain criminal acts where rehabilitation is not a
consideration and first degree murder is one of them. This means that
societal retribution and creating a persuasive example of punishment for
the purpose of inhibiting similarly minded individuals are the dominant
considerations. She was not executed for who she was, she was executed
for what she did.

So how many people did that deter? Experience of repeal of capital
punishment in Britain strongly suggests that it had very little
deterrent effect.

It is impossible to measure deterrence, but a useful fact is that when
pick-pocketting was a capital offense in Britain, the number of
incidents rose dramatically at the public execution by hanging of other
pickpockets

Society is prosecuting the crime and society will
decide what is best for itself, you can't have all sorts of personal
exceptions arising if you expect the system to have any good effect.

That seem to me to be a denial of justice to the individual. Justice
demands that ALL relevant matters are taken into account. But, of
course, in some parts of the USA, severe mental impairment is not
regarded as 'relevant'.

I am talking about the execution phase, you are talking about the
sentencing phase. Let's be careful about delineating the processes.

The
track record for wrongful executions in the US is not so good though,
the official number is running at +200-something throughout history.

That's just the 'official record', where the facts were so obvious that
denial was futile. If we knew the real number, it would almost certainly
be much larger.

That is a good point.

If
you want to change that then stop whining about some white trash, and
start doing something about corrupt law enforcement and prosecutors, the
death sentence is most appropriate for some of the heinous acts they
have committed.

What was that saying about 'two wrongs'? The fact that some people are
corrupt has nothing to do with whether some other people should be
executed.

The US has a serious problem when state governors stay all executions
across the board as a result of DNA evidence. The police and prosecutors
manufactured evidence against the defendant- this is clear. These people
should be executed and this will be rightful- screw the injection- I
will gladly put an unceremonious bullet into their head and kick their
lifeless corpse into a mass grave- no problem at all doing that- glad to
help out-)

DarkMatter · Nov 29, 2003

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 14:24:02 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> Gave us:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote (in <bqa72c02q0q@drn.newsguy.com&gt
about 'Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad', on Sat, 29
Nov 2003:
Kevin Aylward wrote...

No such thing as zombies.

Actually, you're wrong; do some research.

I get 549 kilohits by putting 'zombies' into Google. The first few pages
seem to have nothing to do with voodoo. So I was going to ask you for a
Web reference, but a Google for 'voodoo', while producing over 1.5
megahits, had a relevant URL on the first page:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/voodoo.htm

It says that 'zombies' are living people under the influence of drugs. I
can believe that.

You need to rent or buy and watch the film "The Serpent and The
Rainbow"

It is based on a true story. About zombies.

DarkMatter · Nov 29, 2003

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:00:29 -0700, Jim Thompson
<invalid@invalid.invalid> Gave us:

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:06:00 GMT, Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote:

In article <bq82hk$jii$1@reader2.panix.com>,
Brian Trosko <btrosko@panix.com> wrote:

In alt.primenet.recovery John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

Perhaps one day we'll be absolutely certain that the person convicted IS
the murderer. Until then, the irrevocable punishment of death seems to
me to be ruled out.

Keeping someone in jail until they die of natural causes doesn't seem to
be any more revocable.

So by your argument, we should also abolish life sentences.

And this entire thread has precisely WHAT to do with any of the
newsgroups it has been crossposted to?

You are hereby sentenced to life at the rock pile ;-)

(My choice of punishment... we get some useful work out of them... and
releasable if found later to be innocent.)

Problem:

Our wondrous governments claim that it costs $20k to $40k per year
per inmate for a regular population life sentence convict.

Sorry, but you way costs too much. If the facts in the case are
bona fide truth, the guy goes right after the trial.

Deterrent is the goal, and it fucking works too.

Lack of deterrent results in fucking retarded generations of parents
raising fucking retarded generations of gang boy punk fucks, just like
we see today all over the place.

The whole reason we have the problems we have is because America is
too goddamned casual about things when times are good.

They still have yet to see the festering pustule that their current
school system, and failed WOD has produced.

The jails are full of people that were in possession of drug, not
selling it. USERS are not violent criminals, people!

They need to put violent offenders in prison and KEEP them there!

When they start doing that, WE law abiding Americans will finally be
safer.

Mjolinor · Nov 29, 2003

So how many people did that deter? Experience of repeal of capital
punishment in Britain strongly suggests that it had very little
deterrent effect.

This is only true on the face of it, if you look at the improvement in
actually keeping heavily damaged people alive then there is a correlation
between having no death penalty and numbers being heavily damaged.

Personally I find the whole topic too complex for me to reach a meaningful
solution that I am happy with so I try to avoid it. Ostrich, that's me.

Winfield Hill · Nov 29, 2003

John Woodgate wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote:

Kevin Aylward wrote...

No such thing as zombies.

Actually, you're wrong; do some research.

I get 549 kilohits by putting 'zombies' into Google. ...
It says that 'zombies' are living people under the influence
of drugs. I can believe that.

Close but no cigar. Poor research terms. Add Wade Davis and
tetrodotoxin. But skip the Hollywood Serpent and Rainbow movie.

Some example sites:
http://groups.msn.com/TheAlchemistsCorner/thezombiepoison.msnw
http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/philosophy/critical/corbett-davis.html

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Jim Thompson · Nov 29, 2003

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:33:04 +0000, Paul Burridge
<pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:55:05 -0700, Jim Thompson
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

I think it's Utah that still allows hanging and firing squad choices.

Which would you choose, then, Jim? Personally, given limitless choice,
I'd prefer to be blown to bits by being strapped to a large bomb.
Should be quite a buzz.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

James Meyer · Nov 29, 2003

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:59:55 -0700, Jim Thompson <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wroth:

Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad.

Just came over the Fox News.

...Jim Thompson

Thanks Jim. I would miss *all* the really important stuff if I didn't
check the ELECTRONICS DESIGN news group every day.

Jim

DarkMatter · Nov 29, 2003

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:01:22 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> Gave
us:

no1@no1.com wrote:
Whereas I support George W. and the allies in their action in Iraq, I
can't get it out of my mind what he did to a young girl in February of
1998 when he was governor of Texas. I'm talking about Karla Faye
Tucker. She was involved in a rather brutal murder in 1983 which was
not premeditated and for which she took full responsibility. In her 15
years in jail awaiting execution, she rahabilitated herself so well
that even hardened guards spoke up for her.

There are certain criminal acts where rehabilitation is not a
consideration and first degree murder is one of them. This means that
societal retribution and creating a persuasive example of punishment for
the purpose of inhibiting similarly minded individuals are the dominant
considerations. She was not executed for who she was, she was executed
for what she did. Society is prosecuting the crime and society will
decide what is best for itself, you can't have all sorts of personal
exceptions arising if you expect the system to have any good effect. The
track record for wrongful executions in the US is not so good though,
the official number is running at +200-something throughout history. If
you want to change that then stop whining about some white trash, and
start doing something about corrupt law enforcement and prosecutors, the
death sentence is most appropriate for some of the heinous acts they
have committed.

Very good! Very correct!

I cite Waco! To claim that had a $2 million day cost to be there
was ludicrous.

Then, there is the constitutional issue, as well as valid warrant to
be there at all.

One does not deliver a warrant to search via SWAT team from second
story NON-traditional entry ports to a building, and then claim that
as a valid method of carrying out a warrant, or a validation to
assault the place after things go awry.

I hope you added their number to your 200+ number above. They all
died quite horribly.

Capital cases should all be reviewed after trial by an independent
party from another state not bordering the state in question.

Cases where the party was caught in the act would get approved ,and
executions carried out after a single appeal by the CONVICT.

Cases where the conviction is based on evidentiary proofs would be
individually reviewed by these boards, and levels of certainty defined
and set forth as guidelines for making the case declared bona fide
fact.

Kill the bastards! Kill 'em all!

Rapists, and other violent offenders get sent to an island prison.
A place ran by prisoners that they never return from, and lose 20 to
40 years off their life expectancy, the day they arrive.

These are the punishments that violent fuckheads in this world
deserve. There is no psych evals going to save them.

You don't pull some heinous act, then act like drugs or dementia was
the root cause, and you should be treated nicely since it wasn't
really you.

Kids in school that fight should get expelled, and their parent get
ONE more chance with them the next year.

Assault is a felony for adults. For kids, the parents should be
cited for raising a fucking monster, punk piece of shit.
The kid should get ONE more chance to shape the fuck up.

NO kids should be driving at 16, or be having fucking cars bought
for them. ALL schools across the nation should have mandatory
schooling on driver ethics and ways and means, long before they ever
get near the wheel of a car, and a license should be a lot harder to
get, and harder to keep than it currently is. If the cops start
writing fucking speeding tickets in residential areas, like their lame
asses are supposed to, instead of having coffee and doughnuts, and
busting on blacks, and long hairs, we'd have a nation where kids grow
up knowing what the fuck the word RULES means again. Hell, even the
cops drive like retards when they are not on their way to any call of
any kind, much less an emergency. One more reason why they are
oblivious to the driving conditions we have today.

If we separated our younger kids from their older, retarded, corrupt
siblings, and sent them out on separate recesses at school, we could
give kids back their values, and teach them again what honor and
character is. Don't let them out at night either. Parents have lost
all responsibility. The fault is all adult, folks.

These pieces of shit coming out of the elementary school systems
today show that parents, teachers, and administrators are retarded
pieces of shit. The percentage of Johnnys that come out of school on
the wrong side of the fence is astounding! Many of those have parents
which are encouraging them.

DarkMatter · Nov 29, 2003

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:33:06 +0000, Paul Burridge
<pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> Gave us:

What else would a mature person cultured from a DNA sample be? How's
he supposed to acquire a personality, a character, a sense of
identity?

Dumbshit. Clones are newborns that start out fresh, just like any
other human.

We are a long way off from culturing an adult from a cell probe.
Said adult would still have to learn everything from how to walk to
how to shit, just like anybody else.

Has not a fucking thing to do with the soul, however.

Got clue?

Spehro Pefhany · Nov 29, 2003

On 29 Nov 2003 05:30:52 -0800, the renowned Winfield Hill
<Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Kevin Aylward wrote...

No such thing as zombies.

Actually, you're wrong; do some research.

Win's right. Here is one relevant definition that I can assure you
matches reality:

Main Entry: zomˇbie
Variant(s): also zomˇbi /'zäm-bE/
Function: noun
Etymology: Louisiana Creole or Haitian Creole zőbi, of Bantu origin;
akin to Kimbundu nzúmbe ghost

....

3: a mixed drink made of several kinds of rum, liqueur, and fruit
juice

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

DarkMatter · Nov 29, 2003

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:15:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
<invalid@invalid.invalid> Gave us:

Everyone to their own choice. I strongly suspect all forms of
execution, except lethal injection, has some significant amount of
associated pain.

The gas chamber killed in seconds and was not painless if one
contrasts the duration and writhing of an electrocution execution.

A firing squad is probably fairly painless, since death is rather
instantaneous. Gotta hurt for a second though, eh!

I would like to see a curare dart used for paralysis. Last words are
given the previous night. No fuss... no muss.

The 1793 french "physician" designed guillotine was decidedly
painless. If one renders the convict asleep or unconscious at the
time of the execution.. how much more humane can we be to these
bastards?

As for the ones that get it that didn't deserve it... I'm sure God
has a special place for the wrongfully executed. I feel sorry for
them myself, and am glad that I know not who any of them are.

This is the reason there is more than one actuator "switch" at the
execution chambers.

Even the executioners don't want to know who actually facilitated
the act.

I say the act of execution is facilitated by the criminal that
committed the capital crime that got him seated in that position to
begin with. We should let a computer drop the hammer if we are still
"squeamish" about it.

With that knowledge in mind, there is hesitation in the world of
retarded criminals, so it DOES act as a deterrent, even if it is only
a small amount.

Bush Has Thanksgiving Dinner with Troops in Baghdad

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