What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?

[Jamie]

Tyrorex wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:53:17 +1000, "Phil Allison"
philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Mr. Haney"


Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does.


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.



Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air.


** Absolute BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.

..... Phil




I don't know Mr Haney or you but AFAICT he seems to write sensibly,
accurately and with some knowledge of what he is discussing. I'm
prepared to accept what he writes.

Could you cut the noise down please. Thank you.
Ou, bad move!

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

 

[Jamie]

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0100, Johannes <nix@nix.nix> wrote:


On 18 Apr 03:49, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
ruffrecords@yahoo.com> wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:


Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they
banned it ;-)

Cheers
Ian

Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the
idiots had to do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It
doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated Wire)... It SAYS TPC TIN
Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly
from a shelf life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap
won't even take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost
difference is negligible, if one weighs the added labor cost
of dealing with poor quality TPC, which nearly all of it is.


Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how ever,
electro plated may which is normally used more in cases of
screw terminals and crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder,
especially when it is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is
worth whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT
ALWAYS takes solder.

Aren't these problems are surely to do with contamination of the
wire plating by the insulation rather than inherent
characteristics of the plating?


Duh. That's what I said. "especially when it is inside teflon".

Worldclass Wire & Cable's catalogue has several charts comparing
the properties of the insulation including one on
fluoropolymers. However they don't seem to worry much about
soldering probably because maybe they presume their users
(usually military subcontractors) will clean the wire.


The FLUX 'cleans the wire' you dippy ditz.

The cases notes are where NORMAL soldering processes do NOT yield
favorable results.

It is pretty obvious for anyone with an inkling of common sense.
Well I suppose if you were to use the wire with in a normal time from

the manufacturing date, you wouldn't need to use that flux would ya?


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

 

[Mr. Haney]

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:57:12 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0100, Johannes <nix@nix.nix> wrote:


On 18 Apr 03:49, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
ruffrecords@yahoo.com> wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:


Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they
banned it ;-)

Cheers
Ian

Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the
idiots had to do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It
doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated Wire)... It SAYS TPC TIN
Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly
from a shelf life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap
won't even take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost
difference is negligible, if one weighs the added labor cost
of dealing with poor quality TPC, which nearly all of it is.


Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how ever,
electro plated may which is normally used more in cases of
screw terminals and crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder,
especially when it is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is
worth whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT
ALWAYS takes solder.

Aren't these problems are surely to do with contamination of the
wire plating by the insulation rather than inherent
characteristics of the plating?


Duh. That's what I said. "especially when it is inside teflon".

Worldclass Wire & Cable's catalogue has several charts comparing
the properties of the insulation including one on
fluoropolymers. However they don't seem to worry much about
soldering probably because maybe they presume their users
(usually military subcontractors) will clean the wire.


The FLUX 'cleans the wire' you dippy ditz.

The cases notes are where NORMAL soldering processes do NOT yield
favorable results.

It is pretty obvious for anyone with an inkling of common sense.
Well I suppose if you were to use the wire with in a normal time from
the manufacturing date, you wouldn't need to use that flux would ya?

Solder comes with flux, you total idiot, and solder processes all use
flux as well.

That borders on being one of the most stupid posts you have ever made,
Jamie.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Tyrorex" <atomix@internet.doom

** Obvious sock puppet.

"Mr. Haney"

Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does.


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.


Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air.


** Absolute BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is
an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



I don't know Mr Haney or you but AFAICT he seems to write sensibly,
accurately and with some knowledge of what he is discussing.

** You need to see a shrink - ASAP.

Cos you are totally NUTS.

Look up " silver tarnish " on Google for fuck's sake.




...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Tyrorex the Tosser "


** The worst TROLLS side with other TROLLS.

The above nutter is one of the worst.




....... Phil

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 07:18:37 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
<OneBigLever@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:

:On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:36:55 -0400, Van Chocstraw
:<boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote:
:
:>Sandi wrote:
:>> Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
:>> not.
:>>
:>> What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
:>> advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
:>> wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
:>> cleaning.
:>>
:>> Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
:>> tinned?
:>>
:>> Is cost really so different?
:>>
:>> Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
:>> the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
:>>
:>> Is flexibility affected?
:>
:>I guess they assume you do not need to cut it to length. It probably
:>solders easier or stay in a pinch connector better.
:
: Cinch type terminations is the proper term, Chocstraw retard.
:
: Also a soldered wire does NOT get retained better in such a connection.
:
: The solder "creeps" away and the connection becomes loose.
:
:http://www.materialseducation.org/docs/new2007/15-Bunnell.pdf
:
:http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2004/creep.practical.pdf
:
:
: Go troll somewhere else Chocstraw.

Irrelevant!!!

These papers deals with using 60/40 tin-lead solid core flux solder and has
nothing to do with the tin plating on copper conductors in cables. Conductors
are plated using either the hot dip plating process or electroless deposition,
and the plating is usually only around 5 - 10 microns thick and it becomes
essentially part of the copper alloy itself. I have never heard of tin plating
on copper conductors "creeping" in any type of connector.

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:59:55 GMT, Ross Herbert <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Furthermore, if tin creep were a problem then every telephone exhange employing
tin plated copper cables in non-soldered connections should have failed in a
massive way long before now. AFAIK, even today the majority of telco's still
specify the use of tin plated solid conductor wire for internal exchange
cabling.


:Irrelevant!!!
:
:These papers deals with using 60/40 tin-lead solid core flux solder and has
:nothing to do with the tin plating on copper conductors in cables. Conductors
:are plated using either the hot dip plating process or electroless deposition,
:and the plating is usually only around 5 - 10 microns thick and it becomes
:essentially part of the copper alloy itself. I have never heard of tin plating
n copper conductors "creeping" in any type of connector.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide.

You don't understand what "oxidation" means.

All he understands is trolling for attention


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:59:55 GMT, Ross Herbert <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

The only problem which can occur with tin plating is the growth of "whiskers"
but this is relatively rare except in particular environmental conditions. Tin
plated conductors are never used in aerospace environments because of whisker
growth.


:
:Irrelevant!!!
:
:These papers deals with using 60/40 tin-lead solid core flux solder and has
:nothing to do with the tin plating on copper conductors in cables. Conductors
:are plated using either the hot dip plating process or electroless deposition,
:and the plating is usually only around 5 - 10 microns thick and it becomes
:essentially part of the copper alloy itself. I have never heard of tin plating
n copper conductors "creeping" in any type of connector.

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:54:38 GMT, Howard Eisenhauer
<howarde@REMOVECAPShfx.eastlink.ca> wrote:

:On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:14:40 +0100, Sandi <invalid@email.com> wrote:
:
:>Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
:>not.
:>
:>What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
:>advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
:>wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
:>cleaning.
:>
:>Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
:>tinned?
:>
:>Is cost really so different?
:>
:>Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
:>the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
:>
:>Is flexibility affected?
:
:
:In the telecom industry the rule is "silver on silver". Back in the
:bad old days there could be problems with diss-simmilar metals
:corroding & creating noise on circuits both from rectification effects
:& from current punch-through across the junction when voltage was
:applied to the circuit, i.e. "going off-hook". In some cases
:"sealing" current was (& still is) applied on a constant basis to
:circuits that didn't require it for operation, just to keep junction
:corrosion from getting bothersome.
:
:Although not part of the original Bellcore standard I've actually
:speced tinned wire for T1 circuits going into areas I knew were going
:going to be climate controlled.
:
:H.


That is correct. A typical manufacturer of internal switchboard cable
application chart shows that their Switchboard 100 product (equivalent to what
most western countries would use for internal cabling) is suitable for T1 and
DS1 applications.
http://www.superioressex.com/uploadedFiles/Communications_Cable/Technical_Information/tn33_centoffice_select_chart.pdf

 

[John Fields]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:53:46 -0700, Mr. Haney
<mrhaney@thebarattheendofthefarmroad.org> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:44:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



It has NOTHING to do with audio you retarded twit, and neither do I.

I never made ANY reference to audio EVER in ANY of my responses to
ANYONE.

I am referring to the days when I made RF chokes from Solid SPC wire.
And the prevalent use of it in military radios and other military gear. I
do not expect a dope like you to have a clue, being that you are from a
place that gets all its military gear from its allies.

---
What does that crap have to do with anything?

The point is that the tarnish found on silver, including the plating on
silver plated copper wire isn't, as you claimed, silver oxide, it's
silver sulfide.

Which makes you the dope, yes?

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver

<Quote>

Silver metal does not react with sulfuric acid, which is used in
jewellery-making to clean and remove copper oxide firescale from silver
articles after silver soldering or annealing. However, silver reacts
readily with sulfur or hydrogen sulfide H2S to produce silver sulfide, a
dark-coloured compound familiar as the tarnish on silver coins and other
objects. Silver sulfide also forms silver whiskers when silver
electrical contacts are used in an atmosphere rich in hydrogen sulfide.

..
..
..

Silver oxide (Ag2O) produced when silver nitrate solutions are treated
with a base, is used as a positive electrode (cathode) in watch
(battery) batteries.

<End quote>

JF

 

[J.A. Legris]

On Apr 18, 6:09 pm, mick <not.h...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:54:52 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

snip



Borderline?  Bwahahahahahaha!  You must be new around here ;-)

:-D
Nice one Jim...

--
Mick                      (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web:http://www.nascom.info
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.    

There's nothing particularly "borderline" about it - it's just a name.
The odd thing is that Phil probably falls
a little into every personality disorder category, but not completely
into any of them. I think they need a new one - Australian personality
disorder

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cluster A (odd or eccentric disorders)
Paranoid personality disorder: characterized by irrational suspicions
and mistrust of others
Schizoid personality disorder: lack of interest in social
relationships, seeing no point in sharing time with others
Schizotypal personality disorder: also avoids social relationships,
though out of a fear of people

Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, or erratic disorders)
Antisocial personality disorder: "pervasive disregard for the law and
the rights of others."
Borderline personality disorder: extreme "black and white" thinking,
instability in relationships, self-image, identity and behavior
Histrionic personality disorder: "pervasive attention-seeking behavior
including inappropriate sexual seductiveness and shallow or
exaggerated emotions"
Narcissistic personality disorder: "a pervasive pattern of
grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy"

Cluster C (anxious or fearful disorders)
Avoidant personality disorder: social inhibition, feelings of
inadequacy, extreme sensitivity to negative evaluation and avoidance
of social interaction
Dependent personality disorder: pervasive psychological dependence on
other people.
Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (not the same as obsessive-
compulsive disorder): characterized by rigid conformity to rules,
moral codes, and excessive orderliness

 

On Apr 16, 11:14 pm, Sandi <inva...@email.com> wrote:

Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
not.

What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal  
cleaning.

Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
tinned?

Is cost really so different?  

Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?

Is flexibility affected?

ALL I CAN THINK OF BESIDES THE FACT THAT WIRE ONLY INTENDED FOR
SOLDERING SHOULD BE TINNED IS THAT IT IS DEEP PROBE TIME AT THE TROLL
FARM

I AM PROTEUS

 

[krw]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:08:46 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:53:46 -0700, Mr. Haney
mrhaney@thebarattheendofthefarmroad.org> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:44:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



It has NOTHING to do with audio you retarded twit, and neither do I.

I never made ANY reference to audio EVER in ANY of my responses to
ANYONE.

I am referring to the days when I made RF chokes from Solid SPC wire.
And the prevalent use of it in military radios and other military gear. I
do not expect a dope like you to have a clue, being that you are from a
place that gets all its military gear from its allies.

---
What does that crap have to do with anything?

The point is that the tarnish found on silver, including the plating on
silver plated copper wire isn't, as you claimed, silver oxide, it's
silver sulfide.

Which makes you the dope, yes?

No, oxide/sulfide is not what makes DimBulb a dope.

<snip>

 

[Carlo]

On 19 Apr 12:08, John Fields wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:53:46 -0700, Mr. Haney
mrhaney@thebarattheendofthefarmroad.org> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:44:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S )
- which is an insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS
floating around the internet and swallowed whole by
audiophools.



It has NOTHING to do with audio you retarded twit, and
neither do I.

I never made ANY reference to audio EVER in ANY of my
responses to
ANYONE.

I am referring to the days when I made RF chokes from Solid
SPC wire.
And the prevalent use of it in military radios and other
military gear. I do not expect a dope like you to have a clue,
being that you are from a place that gets all its military
gear from its allies.

---
What does that crap have to do with anything?

The point is that the tarnish found on silver, including the
plating on silver plated copper wire isn't, as you claimed,
silver oxide, it's silver sulfide.

Which makes you the dope, yes?

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver

Quote

Silver metal does not react with sulfuric acid, which is used
in jewellery-making to clean and remove copper oxide firescale
from silver articles after silver soldering or annealing.
However, silver reacts readily with sulfur or hydrogen sulfide
H2S to produce silver sulfide, a dark-coloured compound
familiar as the tarnish on silver coins and other objects.
Silver sulfide also forms silver whiskers when silver
electrical contacts are used in an atmosphere rich in hydrogen
sulfide.

.
.

Silver oxide (Ag2O) produced when silver nitrate solutions are
treated with a base, is used as a positive electrode (cathode)
in watch (battery) batteries.

End quote

JF

That showed him up. Hee hee! You owned him.

 

[Carlo]

On 18 Apr 15:18, Archimedes' Lever wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:36:55 -0400, Van Chocstraw
boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Sandi wrote:
Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a
lot is not.

What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see
the advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which
means the wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with
only minimal cleaning.

Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire
pre- tinned?

Is cost really so different?

Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have
been in the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?

Is flexibility affected?

I guess they assume you do not need to cut it to length. It
probably solders easier or stay in a pinch connector better.

Cinch type terminations is the proper term, Chocstraw
retard.

Also a soldered wire does NOT get retained better in such a
connection.

The solder "creeps" away and the connection becomes loose.

http://www.materialseducation.org/docs/new2007/15-Bunnell.pdf

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2004/creep.practical.pdf

Those references to CHILDREN'S experiments!!!

Children are not qualified engineers.

Is this a sign of desperation?

 

[Carlo]

On 19 Apr 02:39, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:57:12 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0100, Johannes <nix@nix.nix
wrote:


On 18 Apr 03:49, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
ruffrecords@yahoo.com> wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:


Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as
solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they
banned it ;-)

Cheers
Ian

Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the
idiots had to do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It
doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated Wire)... It SAYS TPC
TIN Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly
from a shelf life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap
won't even take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost
difference is negligible, if one weighs the added labor
cost of dealing with poor quality TPC, which nearly all
of it is.


Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how
ever, electro plated may which is normally used more in
cases of screw terminals and crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder,
especially when it is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is
worth whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT
ALWAYS takes solder.

Aren't these problems are surely to do with contamination of
the wire plating by the insulation rather than inherent
characteristics of the plating?


Duh. That's what I said. "especially when it is inside
teflon".

Worldclass Wire & Cable's catalogue has several charts
comparing the properties of the insulation including one on
fluoropolymers. However they don't seem to worry much about
soldering probably because maybe they presume their users
(usually military subcontractors) will clean the wire.


The FLUX 'cleans the wire' you dippy ditz.

The cases notes are where NORMAL soldering processes do
NOT yield favorable results.

It is pretty obvious for anyone with an inkling of common
sense.


Well I suppose if you were to use the wire with in a normal
time from the manufacturing date, you wouldn't need to use
that flux would ya?


Solder comes with flux, you total idiot, and solder processes
all use flux as well.

That borders on being one of the most stupid posts you have
ever made,
Jamie.

Not sure I understand why this exchange got so lively. You wrote
this:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder, especially
when it is inside teflon."

Assuming you wrote what you meant to write then you said "tin
plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder". You also added
that furthermore it was even harder still to solder tin plated
wire when it was inside Teflon insulation.

Aren't some posters responding to your clearly made statement
that

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"

because it probably seems a bit unexpected to them? I have to
confess it does a bit unexpected to me too. It doesn't relate to
my experience or known facts.

The Teflon insulation you mention is an additional observation
which you offer as an extra fact but it's not particularly
relevant to the OP's question.

Seems to me this discussion is based around your statement:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"

 

[Meat Plow]

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:10:29 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net>wrote:

Tarnish is silver sulphide. It is no oxide.

You don't understand what "oxidation" means.

Hmmm then Rust is actually Iron Sulfide?

I thought a high concentration of Sulfur had to be present for
sulfidation to occur.?????????????????????????????????

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:20:44 +0100, Carlo <madredel@telefonica.sa> wrote:

Those references to CHILDREN'S experiments!!!

Children are not qualified engineers.

Is this a sign of desperation?

You are so retarded that you do not even know what solder creep is,
much less how it relates to failure modes in cinched connection
terminations.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:21:05 +0100, Carlo <madredel@telefonica.sa> wrote:

On 19 Apr 02:39, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:57:12 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:01:59 +0100, Johannes <nix@nix.nix
wrote:


On 18 Apr 03:49, Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
ruffrecords@yahoo.com> wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:


Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as
solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they
banned it ;-)

Cheers
Ian

Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the
idiots had to do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It
doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated Wire)... It SAYS TPC
TIN Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly
from a shelf life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap
won't even take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost
difference is negligible, if one weighs the added labor
cost of dealing with poor quality TPC, which nearly all
of it is.


Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how
ever, electro plated may which is normally used more in
cases of screw terminals and crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder,
especially when it is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is
worth whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT
ALWAYS takes solder.

Aren't these problems are surely to do with contamination of
the wire plating by the insulation rather than inherent
characteristics of the plating?


Duh. That's what I said. "especially when it is inside
teflon".

Worldclass Wire & Cable's catalogue has several charts
comparing the properties of the insulation including one on
fluoropolymers. However they don't seem to worry much about
soldering probably because maybe they presume their users
(usually military subcontractors) will clean the wire.


The FLUX 'cleans the wire' you dippy ditz.

The cases notes are where NORMAL soldering processes do
NOT yield favorable results.

It is pretty obvious for anyone with an inkling of common
sense.


Well I suppose if you were to use the wire with in a normal
time from the manufacturing date, you wouldn't need to use
that flux would ya?


Solder comes with flux, you total idiot, and solder processes
all use flux as well.

That borders on being one of the most stupid posts you have
ever made,
Jamie.


Not sure I understand why this exchange got so lively. You wrote
this:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder, especially
when it is inside teflon."

Assuming you wrote what you meant to write then you said "tin
plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder". You also added
that furthermore it was even harder still to solder tin plated
wire when it was inside Teflon insulation.

Aren't some posters responding to your clearly made statement
that

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"

because it probably seems a bit unexpected to them? I have to
confess it does a bit unexpected to me too. It doesn't relate to
my experience or known facts.

The Teflon insulation you mention is an additional observation
which you offer as an extra fact but it's not particularly
relevant to the OP's question.

Seems to me this discussion is based around your statement:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"

If you've ever worked with both SPC and TPC, you would know that SPC
takes solder an order of magnitude better than TPC does.