Trevor Tosspot admits he seeks a total ban on the private ow

[Scout]

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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and
death by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole
unless you consider the US that? Why don't you compare it
ap[ples with apples to a country like Canada which shares your
culture and values ecept for the gun laws


Nope?

I'd prefer apples with apples


Looks like your theory is wrong then.

no just compare it with your culurally alike northern
neieghbour

Been done.
Go read:
The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy:
Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies
David B. Kopel

famous for "Simply put, if not for gun control, Hitler would not
have been able to murder 21 million people"


And ?
Were it not for gun-control in ALL those countries where disarmed
people were slaughtered by their own governments, would have
probably failed in the attempt

doesn't seem to be working in Syria.

So do you have ANY evidence that people in Syria are free to own
arms ?
Or have they recently armed themselves to finally resist the Assad
dictatorship after decades ?

Are you seriously suggesting that you could take on the goverement
with the weapons you're allowed

1) You really should stop using those smileys whenever you post
something stupid
It just confirms you're being stupid
2) Armed citizens outnumber BY FAR the number of Police and
Military in the US.
As a matter of fact, States like Minnesota, Wisconsin,
Michigan and Pennsylvania individually have enough hunters to
qualify as the 8th largest army in the world.

rifles against armoure vehicles and the Airforce WOW

Yep... because the people in those vehicles and aircraft aren't
bullet proof and sooner or later they do have to get out.

What good is your air force when all your pilots are dead?

What good is the best fighter in the world when someone pumps a few
rounds through the engine during takeoff?

Maybe get to the fuel and add a few adulterants to it that will
eventually destroy the engine using that fuel?

After all, the military and police are dependent upon a civilian
infrastructure for their needs from food to ammo. Without them all
the best geewhizz toys in the world won't keep them from defeat.

I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

Know about them?

Certainly

Able to do much about them?

That's really the problem, isn't it?

given the weaponry on each side I know who I'd put my money on

Somehow, I bet you would be betting based on your feelings not from an
objective comparison of their chances of winning.

no I'm using logic

IOW feelings.

 

[dechucka]

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I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local suppliers
to supply them, how long do you think they will last if the turn on
the very people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to buy
supplies

From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?

I think they stand a better chance than some comparatively lightly
lightly armed militia

Except what you fail to realize is that we don't have to. See the
government wouldn't know who is opposing them, and while those that are
identified would be quickly eliminated, that doesn't make up for the
continued loses by those still unknown.
We don't have to defend when no one is attacking, because they don't know
who to attack.

they may be a pain but if one looks at the IRA, the Basqes etc you may only
be that

Unless you're suggesting they would start engaging in mass killings, and
then they would really find every hand turned against them.

 

[SaPeIsMa]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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snip

Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague generalizations.

that is specific as one can get

I'll accept that as an admission you don't know

as a gun owner I do and those are the laws

fyi
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+512+2006+FIRST+0+N

LOL
You need a permission to own a paint-ball gun
You need a permit to stage paint-ball games
Talk about a nanny state.
Ironic that since gun control was clamped down post Port Arthur, things have
gotten worse.
See section about Australia in GunFacts.

You are proof that Australia has more sheep than New Zealand.
It's just that they have 2 legs instead of 4.

 

[SaPeIsMa]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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snip

Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague generalizations.

that is specific as one can get

I'll accept that as an admission you don't know

as a gun owner I do and those are the laws

fyi
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+512+2006+FIRST+0+N

Still not citing the specific laws.
You are weaseling (as usual)

 

[SaPeIsMa]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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snip


unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an
impersonal way of killing

Another statement shows how ignorant you are
Most shootings can be summarized by the rule "3 shots, 3 yards, 3
seconds"
At 3 yards or less, shooting someone is neither "hands off" or
"impersonal".

a lot more hands off and impersonal than a stabbing or bludgeoning someone
and also more efficient

And naturally you speak from personal experience when you make this claim
???

 

[SaPeIsMa]

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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive
gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all
of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's
not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your
theory and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it
stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?


LOL
Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for ......

So you are claiming that gun control does not work "except for...
The problem with gun-control, is that there is an "except for", IN EVERY
CASE that has been presented, to invalidate the notion that gun-control
works...

Too bad that when you have an "except for", then you have just disproved
your rule to not hold...
Logic not your strong suit...

 

[SaPeIsMa]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for ......

Which would disprove the rule that all mammals give live birth.

If an exception exists..... then the 'rule' is wrong.

an interesting argument dependent on your definition of a "rule"

WEASEL response..

 

[SaPeIsMa]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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snip

no I think choosing SA and Mexico is


I just figured out your problem
The first 3 words of your phrase
" no I think"

the ad hom attack sure proof you can't argue your case logically

The case has been argued logically,
And your premise has been proven false.
You sticking your head up your ass and chanting "I can't hear you" won't
change that.

 

[SaPeIsMa]

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The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun
us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of
it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked
one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it shouldn't
matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example
of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions
not the norms


It's no more cherry-picking than you trying to cherry-pick with Australia
or Canada
In this case, South Africa, as a First-World country, CLEARLY counters
your objection to Mexico.
It also CLEARLY blows out your claim that gun-laws will make you safer
You can also use Switzerland or Finland, 2 other First-World countries
with loose gun laws and low crime and homicide rates.

much much tighter than the US's

Repeating that false comparison is just proof you lie.

Comparing Australia and Switzerland shows that Switzerland HAS FAR LESS
Crime than AUSTRALIA
And in Australia, militia members do NOT keep FULL AUTO ASSAULT RIFLES +
AMMO in their houses.

You lose again, chucklehead.

 

[SaPeIsMa]

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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local suppliers to
supply them, how long do you think they will last if the turn on the
very people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to buy
supplies

From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?

I think they stand a better chance than some comparatively lightly lightly
armed militia

LOL
Tell that to the Swiss who have successfully done exactly that for centuries
Tell that to the Fins when the stood up the Soviets in the Winter War.
Tell that to the Americans who did that to the Brits at the beginning of
their Revolution.
Tell that to Castro in Cuba
Tell that to the Costa Ricans in 2 if not 3 of their revolutions.

 

[SaPeIsMa]

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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and
death by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole
unless you consider the US that? Why don't you compare it
ap[ples with apples to a country like Canada which shares your
culture and values ecept for the gun laws


Nope?

I'd prefer apples with apples


Looks like your theory is wrong then.

no just compare it with your culurally alike northern
neieghbour

Been done.
Go read:
The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy:
Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies
David B. Kopel

famous for "Simply put, if not for gun control, Hitler would not
have been able to murder 21 million people"


And ?
Were it not for gun-control in ALL those countries where disarmed
people were slaughtered by their own governments, would have
probably failed in the attempt

doesn't seem to be working in Syria.

So do you have ANY evidence that people in Syria are free to own
arms ?
Or have they recently armed themselves to finally resist the Assad
dictatorship after decades ?

Are you seriously suggesting that you could take on the goverement
with the weapons you're allowed

1) You really should stop using those smileys whenever you post
something stupid
It just confirms you're being stupid
2) Armed citizens outnumber BY FAR the number of Police and
Military in the US.
As a matter of fact, States like Minnesota, Wisconsin,
Michigan and Pennsylvania individually have enough hunters to
qualify as the 8th largest army in the world.

rifles against armoure vehicles and the Airforce WOW

Yep... because the people in those vehicles and aircraft aren't
bullet proof and sooner or later they do have to get out.

What good is your air force when all your pilots are dead?

What good is the best fighter in the world when someone pumps a few
rounds through the engine during takeoff?

Maybe get to the fuel and add a few adulterants to it that will
eventually destroy the engine using that fuel?

After all, the military and police are dependent upon a civilian
infrastructure for their needs from food to ammo. Without them all
the best geewhizz toys in the world won't keep them from defeat.

I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

Know about them?

Certainly

Able to do much about them?

That's really the problem, isn't it?

given the weaponry on each side I know who I'd put my money on

Somehow, I bet you would be betting based on your feelings not from an
objective comparison of their chances of winning.

no I'm using logic

BWAHAHHAHAHAH...
You and REAL logic are anathema...

 

[dechucka]

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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local suppliers
to supply them, how long do you think they will last if the turn on
the very people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to buy
supplies

From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?

I think they stand a better chance than some comparatively lightly
lightly armed militia

LOL
Tell that to the Swiss who have successfully done exactly that for
centuries
Tell that to the Fins when the stood up the Soviets in the Winter War.
Tell that to the Americans who did that to the Brits at the beginning of
their Revolution.
Tell that to Castro in Cuba
Tell that to the Costa Ricans in 2 if not 3 of their revolutions.

do you want to go through the differences

 

[dechucka]

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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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snip


unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an
impersonal way of killing

Another statement shows how ignorant you are
Most shootings can be summarized by the rule "3 shots, 3 yards, 3
seconds"
At 3 yards or less, shooting someone is neither "hands off" or
"impersonal".

a lot more hands off and impersonal than a stabbing or bludgeoning
someone and also more efficient

And naturally you speak from personal experience when you make this claim
???

I've never stabbed or bludgeoned someone to death

 

[dechucka]

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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for
......

Which would disprove the rule that all mammals give live birth.

If an exception exists..... then the 'rule' is wrong.

an interesting argument dependent on your definition of a "rule"

WEASEL response..

bit beyond your thought processes obviously

 

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive
gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all
of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's
not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your
theory and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it
stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?


LOL
Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for ......

So you are claiming that gun control does not work "except for...
The problem with gun-control, is that there is an "except for", IN EVERY
CASE that has been presented, to invalidate the notion that gun-control
works...

except it does

 

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun
us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of
it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked
one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it shouldn't
matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example
of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from
that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions
not the norms


It's no more cherry-picking than you trying to cherry-pick with
Australia or Canada
In this case, South Africa, as a First-World country, CLEARLY counters
your objection to Mexico.
It also CLEARLY blows out your claim that gun-laws will make you safer
You can also use Switzerland or Finland, 2 other First-World countries
with loose gun laws and low crime and homicide rates.

much much tighter than the US's

Repeating that false comparison is just proof you lie.

Comparing Australia and Switzerland shows that Switzerland HAS FAR LESS
Crime than AUSTRALIA

so

And in Australia, militia members do NOT keep FULL AUTO ASSAULT RIFLES +
AMMO in their houses.

under strict controls unlike in the US

 

[RD Sandman]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting
from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites
for all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and
death by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say
that's not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA.
I'll discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your
theory and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it
stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?


LOL
Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for
......

So you are claiming that gun control does not work "except for...
The problem with gun-control, is that there is an "except for", IN
EVERY CASE that has been presented, to invalidate the notion that
gun-control works...

except it does

Care to show any studies that present a causal effect of gun control laws
on violent crime? The Centers for Disease Control and the National
Academy of Science couldn't find one.

--

It's too bad the people who really know how to run this
country are so busy cutting hair and driving taxis!!

George Burns


Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman)

 

[RD Sandman]

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in
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"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wbOdnXDFhoEPMArSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
message news:jn7mp2$b8n$1@dont-email.me...


"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms


It's no more cherry-picking than you trying to cherry-pick with
Australia or Canada
In this case, South Africa, as a First-World country, CLEARLY
counters your objection to Mexico.
It also CLEARLY blows out your claim that gun-laws will make you
safer You can also use Switzerland or Finland, 2 other First-World
countries with loose gun laws and low crime and homicide rates.

much much tighter than the US's

Repeating that false comparison is just proof you lie.

Comparing Australia and Switzerland shows that Switzerland HAS FAR
LESS Crime than AUSTRALIA

so

And in Australia, militia members do NOT keep FULL AUTO ASSAULT
RIFLES + AMMO in their houses.

under strict controls unlike in the US

Not many US households have full auto assault rifles in them.

--

It's too bad the people who really know how to run this
country are so busy cutting hair and driving taxis!!

George Burns


Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman)

 

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:q_6dneF1ZoQo8T_SnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UsmdnWMdjZHsITzSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

snip

Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague
generalizations.

that is specific as one can get

I'll accept that as an admission you don't know

as a gun owner I do and those are the laws

fyi
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+512+2006+FIRST+0+N

LOL
You need a permission to own a paint-ball gun
You need a permit to stage paint-ball games
Talk about a nanny state.
Ironic that since gun control was clamped down post Port Arthur, things
have gotten worse.

have they?

 

[dechucka]

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:wuydnSXKCerf7T_SnZ2dnUVZ_u4AAAAA@bright.net...

"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UsmdnWMdjZHsITzSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

snip

Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague
generalizations.

that is specific as one can get

I'll accept that as an admission you don't know

as a gun owner I do and those are the laws

fyi
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+512+2006+FIRST+0+N

Still not citing the specific laws.

I have

You are weaseling (as usual)