Trevor Tosspot admits he seeks a total ban on the private ow

given the weaponry on each side I know who I'd put my money on

Which just goes to show how really stupid you are.
Fighting an insurgency on some foreign country is nothing compared to
fighting it in your own or more importantly your neighbors backyard
Basically, you would be cut off from the very sources of your support and
all hands would be turned against you.
come on we are talking the us against some crackpots
 
I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local suppliers to
supply them, how long do you think they will last if the turn on the very
people they are supposed to protect ?
come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to buy
supplies
>
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive
gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all
of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked
one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole unless
you consider the US that? Why don't you compare it ap[ples with
apples to a country like Canada which shares your culture and
values ecept for the gun laws


Nope?

I'd prefer apples with apples


Looks like your theory is wrong then.

no just compare it with your culurally alike northern neieghbour

Been done.
Go read:
The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy:
Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies
David B. Kopel

famous for "Simply put, if not for gun control, Hitler would not have
been able to murder 21 million people"


And ?
Were it not for gun-control in ALL those countries where disarmed
people were slaughtered by their own governments, would have probably
failed in the attempt

doesn't seem to be working in Syria.

So do you have ANY evidence that people in Syria are free to own arms ?
Or have they recently armed themselves to finally resist the Assad
dictatorship after decades ?

Are you seriously suggesting that you could take on the goverement with
the weapons you're allowed :)

1) You really should stop using those smileys whenever you post
something stupid
It just confirms you're being stupid
2) Armed citizens outnumber BY FAR the number of Police and Military
in the US.
As a matter of fact, States like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan
and Pennsylvania individually have enough hunters to qualify as the 8th
largest army in the world.

rifles against armoure vehicles and the Airforce WOW


And you think those people would be stupid enough to line up in formations
against armored vehicles. or aircraft ?
WOW is right, but only for your stupidity
so a heap of people running around in the bush is your revolution

And they are all equipped with "high powered sniper rifles".
3) Also in the US, it's ILLEGAL for the military to act as Police
(look up Posse Commitatus).

The goverement is out to get you they will use their resources


You really don't know shit..
You're just blabbering your ignorance.


4) A great many of the police would also refuse to act illegally
against the citizens.

but the army to save America


??
Why don't you try writing complete sentences that actually make sense


5) Read up on the Battle of Athens Tennessee.
Resistance to abusive government actions has been consistent
behavior in the US
Hell, even the peace movement of the 70s was resistance to the
Government.

didn't need gums for their victory

So imagine what would happen if the guns came out
And key figures in a treasonous government start getting taken out ?
democracy seemed to work OK

How long do you imagine that government will continue a losing battle
against the very people it was created to serve ?
Because unlike your government which was created top-down by the crown to
control it's subjects
The US government has ALWAYS been there to serve the people.
I think your little revolution will fail
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun
us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of
it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked
one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole unless
you consider the US that? Why don't you compare it ap[ples with apples
to a country like Canada which shares your culture and values ecept
for the gun laws


Nope?

I'd prefer apples with apples


Looks like your theory is wrong then.

no just compare it with your culurally alike northern neieghbour

Been done.
Go read:
The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy:
Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies
David B. Kopel

famous for "Simply put, if not for gun control, Hitler would not have
been able to murder 21 million people"

I prefer his CANADIAN GUN CONTROL: SHOULD THE UNITED STATES LOOK NORTH
FOR A SOLUTION TO ITS FIREARMS PROBLEM?. Interesting conclusion it is
not only Canadian gun laws but that Americans are homicidal maniacs that
causes the differences


what a load of crap


Indeed chuckles
Your response TO YOUR OWN POST
WAS A LOAD OF CRAP
(as usual)
U R pathetic and dishonest
 
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given the weaponry on each side I know who I'd put my money on

Which just goes to show how really stupid you are.
Fighting an insurgency on some foreign country is nothing compared to
fighting it in your own or more importantly your neighbors backyard
Basically, you would be cut off from the very sources of your support and
all hands would be turned against you.

come on we are talking the us against some crackpots
Read up on the Battle ot Athens Tennessee.
 
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dechucka wrote:

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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dechucka wrote:
Would pre Howard gun laws done anything to stop the
current
violence?


The current ones have not, so why were they changed?

You forgot to answer the question. Haven't seen any long arm
massacres
since Port Arthur iirc


the total homicides are not decreasing by any appreciable
amount.

keep squirming


Don't need to, statistics beats phobic paranoid rhetoric.

Main statistic is no massacres using long arms since Port
Arther, rather
destroys your pov don't you think

people who seem to think that removal of the method of homicide
that they have a phobia about without altering the total
homicides just demonstrate their irrational fear about that
particular inanimate object.
What we have to do as a people is concentrate on the real causes
of homicide not what is used to commit them.

I totally agree with you. As a gun owner I am happy enough with
the current gun law but actually think that the "ban" on semi
automatics is a bit silly. Lets face it most people in Australia
don't need guns so licensing should be on a needs basis as it is
now. One group who should never be allowed to own guns imho is the
"self defense lobby".

I see. So you are stating that self defense wouldn't be a
legitimate need?

In the vast majority of cases yes and those needs are covered by
current laws

LOL
A weasel response.
chuckles is dancing around like a devil in holy water

DO tell us which laws are those...

The current gun licensing laws. Try and keep up

Which current gun licensing laws ?


Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague generalizations.





Australia's


sigh
Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague generalizations.

that is specific as one can get
I'll accept that as an admission you don't know
 
snip


unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an impersonal
way of killing

Another statement shows how ignorant you are
Most shootings can be summarized by the rule "3 shots, 3 yards, 3 seconds"
At 3 yards or less, shooting someone is neither "hands off" or
"impersonal".
a lot more hands off and impersonal than a stabbing or bludgeoning someone
and also more efficient
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive
gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all
of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked
one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results
from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions
not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's
not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your theory
and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it stands is
crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?


LOL
Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.
not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for ......
 
snip

no I think choosing SA and Mexico is


I just figured out your problem
The first 3 words of your phrase
" no I think"
the ad hom attack sure proof you can't argue your case logically
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all of it
here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry picked one
at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it shouldn't
matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another example of
the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the exceptions not
the norms


It's no more cherry-picking than you trying to cherry-pick with Australia
or Canada
In this case, South Africa, as a First-World country, CLEARLY counters
your objection to Mexico.
It also CLEARLY blows out your claim that gun-laws will make you safer
You can also use Switzerland or Finland, 2 other First-World countries
with loose gun laws and low crime and homicide rates.
much much tighter than the US's
 
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given the weaponry on each side I know who I'd put my money on

Which just goes to show how really stupid you are.
Fighting an insurgency on some foreign country is nothing compared to
fighting it in your own or more importantly your neighbors backyard
Basically, you would be cut off from the very sources of your support
and all hands would be turned against you.

come on we are talking the us against some crackpots

Read up on the Battle ot Athens Tennessee.
I have and your point is what?
 
snip

Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague generalizations.

that is specific as one can get

I'll accept that as an admission you don't know
as a gun owner I do and those are the laws

fyi
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+512+2006+FIRST+0+N
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole
unless you consider the US that? Why don't you compare it
ap[ples with apples to a country like Canada which shares your
culture and values ecept for the gun laws


Nope?

I'd prefer apples with apples


Looks like your theory is wrong then.

no just compare it with your culurally alike northern neieghbour

Been done.
Go read:
The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy:
Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies
David B. Kopel

famous for "Simply put, if not for gun control, Hitler would not
have been able to murder 21 million people"


And ?
Were it not for gun-control in ALL those countries where disarmed
people were slaughtered by their own governments, would have
probably failed in the attempt

doesn't seem to be working in Syria.

So do you have ANY evidence that people in Syria are free to own arms
?
Or have they recently armed themselves to finally resist the Assad
dictatorship after decades ?

Are you seriously suggesting that you could take on the goverement
with the weapons you're allowed :)

1) You really should stop using those smileys whenever you post
something stupid
It just confirms you're being stupid
2) Armed citizens outnumber BY FAR the number of Police and
Military in the US.
As a matter of fact, States like Minnesota, Wisconsin,
Michigan and Pennsylvania individually have enough hunters to qualify
as the 8th largest army in the world.

rifles against armoure vehicles and the Airforce WOW

Yep... because the people in those vehicles and aircraft aren't bullet
proof and sooner or later they do have to get out.

What good is your air force when all your pilots are dead?

What good is the best fighter in the world when someone pumps a few
rounds through the engine during takeoff?

Maybe get to the fuel and add a few adulterants to it that will
eventually destroy the engine using that fuel?

After all, the military and police are dependent upon a civilian
infrastructure for their needs from food to ammo. Without them all the
best geewhizz toys in the world won't keep them from defeat.

I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

Know about them?

Certainly

Able to do much about them?

That's really the problem, isn't it?

given the weaponry on each side I know who I'd put my money on
Somehow, I bet you would be betting based on your feelings not from an
objective comparison of their chances of winning.
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive
gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all
of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say that's
not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA. I'll
discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your
theory and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it
stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?


LOL
Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for ......
Which would disprove the rule that all mammals give live birth.

If an exception exists..... then the 'rule' is wrong.
 
"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ptSdnZRih-L-BzzSnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local suppliers to
supply them, how long do you think they will last if the turn on the very
people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to buy
supplies
From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?
 
"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"Addinall" <addinall@addinall.net> wrote in message
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On May 1, 2:47 pm, "dechucka" <dechuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Addinall" <addin...@addinall.net> wrote in message

news:2e0d7846-80ce-4870-bed8-cb32ba305a46@l4g2000pbv.googlegroups.com...
On May 1, 10:31 am, "dechucka" <dechuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:









"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com> wrote in message

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"dechucka" <dechuc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechuc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"Scout" <me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
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"dechucka" <dechuc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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The problems caused by having the population wandering around
outways the risks of an individual benefiting from defensive
gun
us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for all
of
it
here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by
gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked
one
at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole
unless
you
consider the US that? Why don't you compare it ap[ples with
apples to
a
country like Canada which shares your culture and values ecept
for
the
gun laws

Nope?

I'd prefer apples with apples

Looks like your theory is wrong then.

no just compare it with your culurally alike northern neieghbour

Been done.
Go read:
The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy:
Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies
David B. Kopel

famous for "Simply put, if not for gun control, Hitler would not
have
been able to murder 21 million people"

And ?
Were it not for gun-control in ALL those countries where disarmed
people
were slaughtered by their own governments, would have probably
failed in
the attempt

doesn't seem to be working in Syria. Are you seriously suggesting that
you
could take on the goverement with the weapons you're allowed :)

http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-50.phphttp://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-308.php
=================================================

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_land_vehicles_of_the_U.S._Armed_...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPtvGCeE7zI

===================================================

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODDSOpNkbIY&feature=fvst

And your point was what exactly ?
And Abrams tank is quite helpless if not downright useless in an
insurgency
Just look at how the Soviets fared against unarmed citizens in Budapest in
1956
It wasn't until the Soviet sent in BOTH tanks and troops against a very
poorly armed and trained population.
But the US population is not that poorly armed, nor is it untrained.

The current US military is about 2,000,000 active duty and reserve
personnel.
There are about 800,000 police at all levels of government

Four out of 50 states have more armed personnel than that
And the odds are good, that not all of the above military and police would
follow illegal orders.

As to equipment, you need qualified personnel to operate and maintain it.
IF half the military personnel fail to report for duty how many military
units will be combat effective for a nationwide insurgency ?
Or worse if even 2% of those that show up engage in minor sabotage. How long
until most equipment is redlined awaiting repairs and/or parts?

Reminds me of the time the US broke into an enemy ammo depot but didn't take
or destroy anything....instead they added some of their own ammo. specially
designed to cause enemy guns to blow up. Suddenly the enemy is spending tons
of time and manpower tracking down, recalling and disposing of perfectly
good lots of ammo.

Doesn't take much sand in the grease to chew things up pretty quickly.
 
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local suppliers to
supply them, how long do you think they will last if the turn on the
very people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to buy
supplies

From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?
I think they stand a better chance than some comparatively lightly lightly
armed militia
 
Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for ......

Which would disprove the rule that all mammals give live birth.

If an exception exists..... then the 'rule' is wrong.
an interesting argument dependent on your definition of a "rule"
 
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pZqdnQ5a9KXv1wrSnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and
death by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole
unless you consider the US that? Why don't you compare it
ap[ples with apples to a country like Canada which shares your
culture and values ecept for the gun laws


Nope?

I'd prefer apples with apples


Looks like your theory is wrong then.

no just compare it with your culurally alike northern
neieghbour

Been done.
Go read:
The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy:
Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies
David B. Kopel

famous for "Simply put, if not for gun control, Hitler would not
have been able to murder 21 million people"


And ?
Were it not for gun-control in ALL those countries where disarmed
people were slaughtered by their own governments, would have
probably failed in the attempt

doesn't seem to be working in Syria.

So do you have ANY evidence that people in Syria are free to own
arms ?
Or have they recently armed themselves to finally resist the Assad
dictatorship after decades ?

Are you seriously suggesting that you could take on the goverement
with the weapons you're allowed :)

1) You really should stop using those smileys whenever you post
something stupid
It just confirms you're being stupid
2) Armed citizens outnumber BY FAR the number of Police and
Military in the US.
As a matter of fact, States like Minnesota, Wisconsin,
Michigan and Pennsylvania individually have enough hunters to
qualify as the 8th largest army in the world.

rifles against armoure vehicles and the Airforce WOW

Yep... because the people in those vehicles and aircraft aren't bullet
proof and sooner or later they do have to get out.

What good is your air force when all your pilots are dead?

What good is the best fighter in the world when someone pumps a few
rounds through the engine during takeoff?

Maybe get to the fuel and add a few adulterants to it that will
eventually destroy the engine using that fuel?

After all, the military and police are dependent upon a civilian
infrastructure for their needs from food to ammo. Without them all the
best geewhizz toys in the world won't keep them from defeat.

I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

Know about them?

Certainly

Able to do much about them?

That's really the problem, isn't it?

given the weaponry on each side I know who I'd put my money on

Somehow, I bet you would be betting based on your feelings not from an
objective comparison of their chances of winning.
no I'm using logic
 
"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"dechucka" <dechucka1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ptSdnZRih-L-BzzSnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

I think the armed forces given their experience may know about these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local suppliers to
supply them, how long do you think they will last if the turn on the
very people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to buy
supplies

From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?

I think they stand a better chance than some comparatively lightly lightly
armed militia
Except what you fail to realize is that we don't have to. See the government
wouldn't know who is opposing them, and while those that are identified
would be quickly eliminated, that doesn't make up for the continued loses by
those still unknown.
We don't have to defend when no one is attacking, because they don't know
who to attack.

Unless you're suggesting they would start engaging in mass killings, and
then they would really find every hand turned against them.
 

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