Trevor Tosspot admits he seeks a total ban on the private ow

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The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and
death by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms


It's no more cherry-picking than you trying to cherry-pick with
Australia or Canada
In this case, South Africa, as a First-World country, CLEARLY
counters your objection to Mexico.
It also CLEARLY blows out your claim that gun-laws will make you
safer You can also use Switzerland or Finland, 2 other
First-World countries with loose gun laws and low crime and
homicide rates.

much much tighter than the US's

Repeating that false comparison is just proof you lie.

Comparing Australia and Switzerland shows that Switzerland HAS FAR
LESS Crime than AUSTRALIA

so

You're clearly too fucking stupid to get it..
No big surprise.



And in Australia, militia members do NOT keep FULL AUTO ASSAULT
RIFLES + AMMO in their houses.

under strict controls unlike in the US


BULLSHIT
There are NO strict controls on militia members who have their
MILITARY ASSAULT RIFLES + AMMO in their closets AT HOME..

I gave you the cite please read it and learn something


In the US NO member of ANY militia, the reserves or even ACTIVE units
can bring home their weapons and store them in their closets, ready
for use

Isn't the 2nd amendment all about the militia ;-)
Yep, but not in the way you are trying to go.

--

It's too bad the people who really know how to run this
country are so busy cutting hair and driving taxis!!

George Burns


Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman)
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting
from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites
for all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and
death by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a
cherry picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold
up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world
shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such
it shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick
the countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and
another example of the wonderfully low murder rates you
claim always results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say
that's not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in
SA. I'll discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove
your theory and since you've accepted one that means your
theory as it stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?


LOL
Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for
......

So you are claiming that gun control does not work "except for...
The problem with gun-control, is that there is an "except for", IN
EVERY CASE that has been presented, to invalidate the notion that
gun-control works...

except it does



Care to show any studies that present a causal effect of gun control
laws on violent crime?


No I'll just stick with commparisons between as like as possible
countries

Oh, you really also compare demographics and cultures?

May I assume that you understand the difference between causality and
correlation or is that too much to ask?
WAY BEYOND his comprehension and skill set.
 
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snip

Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague
generalizations.

that is specific as one can get

I'll accept that as an admission you don't know

as a gun owner I do and those are the laws

fyi
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+512+2006+FIRST+0+N

LOL
You need a permission to own a paint-ball gun
You need a permit to stage paint-ball games
Talk about a nanny state.
Ironic that since gun control was clamped down post Port Arthur,
things have gotten worse.

have they?

Yes they have
http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm
* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered
in 2002 that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns
and making it a crime to use a gun defensively,
armed robberies rose by 51%,
unarmed robberies by 37%,
assaults by 24%
and kidnappings by 43%.
While murders fell by 3%,
manslaughter rose by 16%."
Dr. John R. Lott, Jr., "Gun laws don't reduce crime,"
USA Today (May 9, 2002).
See also Rhett Watson and Matthew Bayley,
"Gun crime up 40pc since Port Arthur,"
The Daily Telegraph (April 28, 2002).

I'll stop there because that statement is BS

Prove it, false weasel-boi
But remember
If you get punished for keeping a loaded gun for self defense, you have
effectively made it illegal to use a gun defensively, by making it
IMPOSSIBLE UNLESS you already have a loaded gun at hand.
In which case the government can come after you for using that gun
defensively.

it is not illegal to use a gun defensively in Australia, most guns in Aus
were not banned post 1996
 
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snip

Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague
generalizations.

that is specific as one can get

I'll accept that as an admission you don't know

as a gun owner I do and those are the laws

fyi
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+512+2006+FIRST+0+N

Still not citing the specific laws.
You are weaseling (as usual)


I have


You have NOT
You just sent me to the NSW statutes page
You have NOT CITED the specific law.

that is it

What exactly is specific about your cite?
it is the law governing guns
 
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I think the armed forces given their experience may know about
these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local
suppliers to supply them, how long do you think they will last if
the turn on the very people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to
buy supplies

From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?

I think they stand a better chance than some comparatively lightly
lightly armed militia

Except what you fail to realize is that we don't have to. See the
government wouldn't know who is opposing them, and while those that
are identified would be quickly eliminated, that doesn't make up for
the continued loses by those still unknown.
We don't have to defend when no one is attacking, because they don't
know who to attack.

they may be a pain but if one looks at the IRA, the Basqes etc you may
only be that

Maybe, depends on the level of popular support, doesn't it?

Certainly does and if you get some of the military on your side the
revolution may succeed

Doesn't matter if the military joins you or not if you have enough popular
support. Of course, odds are sooner or later if you have such popular
support at least some of the military will switch sides....if only to keep
from being shot as traitors when the population wins.
like Hungary?
 
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I think the armed forces given their experience may know about
these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local
suppliers to supply them, how long do you think they will last if
the turn on the very people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to
buy supplies

From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?

I think they stand a better chance than some comparatively lightly
lightly armed militia

LOL
Tell that to the Swiss who have successfully done exactly that for
centuries
Tell that to the Fins when the stood up the Soviets in the Winter War.
Tell that to the Americans who did that to the Brits at the beginning
of their Revolution.
Tell that to Castro in Cuba
Tell that to the Costa Ricans in 2 if not 3 of their revolutions.

do you want to go through the differences :)

Why don't you start with the similarities, moron.

there aren't any

Actually they are, but clearly you're not smart enough to recognize them
coming from a bloke who compares the US with Mexico but discounts Canada
that is hilarious
 
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snip


unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an
impersonal way of killing

Another statement shows how ignorant you are
Most shootings can be summarized by the rule "3 shots, 3 yards, 3
seconds"
At 3 yards or less, shooting someone is neither "hands off" or
"impersonal".

a lot more hands off and impersonal than a stabbing or bludgeoning
someone and also more efficient

And naturally you speak from personal experience when you make this
claim ???

I've never stabbed or bludgeoned someone to death

So then why are you babbling about a subject in which you are completely
ignorant ?
Oh wait, that is true on just about any subject in your case

You've got to have actually done it to know that something is true? What
an idiotic comment


Certain things.
YES
Otherwise, you're like a nun counseling on male sexuality
Oh wait, that just about describes you blabbering about gun-control
effectiveness.
another logic breakdown on your part
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and
death by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say
that's not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA.
I'll discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your
theory and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it
stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?


LOL
Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for
......

So you are claiming that gun control does not work "except for...
The problem with gun-control, is that there is an "except for", IN
EVERY CASE that has been presented, to invalidate the notion that
gun-control works...

except it does

NOPE !
You have yet to even GRASP the concept of CAUSATION vs correlation
All you have done so far is correlation
And that is NO PROOF at all

and you probably believe that smoking doesn't cause cancer

I'll accept that goalpost move as a surrender and admission that you are
stumped to even give a stupid response.
relevant comment and it shows how stupid your argument is
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms


It's no more cherry-picking than you trying to cherry-pick with
Australia or Canada
In this case, South Africa, as a First-World country, CLEARLY
counters your objection to Mexico.
It also CLEARLY blows out your claim that gun-laws will make you
safer You can also use Switzerland or Finland, 2 other First-World
countries with loose gun laws and low crime and homicide rates.

much much tighter than the US's

Repeating that false comparison is just proof you lie.

Comparing Australia and Switzerland shows that Switzerland HAS FAR
LESS Crime than AUSTRALIA

so

And in Australia, militia members do NOT keep FULL AUTO ASSAULT
RIFLES + AMMO in their houses.

under strict controls unlike in the US



Not many US households have full auto assault rifles in them.


And NO ONE in the services has one issued to them to take home, that I
know of..

so?

Fuck off stupid
you've lost it haven't you?
 
I gave you the cite please read it and learn something
Actually, YOU DID NOT
You gave some second-hand opinion piece in a leftist rag
who cited the information, please read it and learn something

In the US NO member of ANY militia, the reserves or even ACTIVE units
can bring home their weapons and store them in their closets, ready for
use

Isn't the 2nd amendment all about the militia ;-)

Get back under your rock you stupid troll
 
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snip

Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague
generalizations.

that is specific as one can get

I'll accept that as an admission you don't know

as a gun owner I do and those are the laws

fyi
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+512+2006+FIRST+0+N

LOL
You need a permission to own a paint-ball gun
You need a permit to stage paint-ball games
Talk about a nanny state.
Ironic that since gun control was clamped down post Port Arthur,
things have gotten worse.

have they?

Yes they have
http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm
* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered
in 2002 that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns
and making it a crime to use a gun defensively,
armed robberies rose by 51%,
unarmed robberies by 37%,
assaults by 24%
and kidnappings by 43%.
While murders fell by 3%,
manslaughter rose by 16%."
Dr. John R. Lott, Jr., "Gun laws don't reduce crime,"
USA Today (May 9, 2002).
See also Rhett Watson and Matthew Bayley,
"Gun crime up 40pc since Port Arthur,"
The Daily Telegraph (April 28, 2002).

I'll stop there because that statement is BS

Prove it, false weasel-boi
But remember
If you get punished for keeping a loaded gun for self defense, you
have effectively made it illegal to use a gun defensively, by making it
IMPOSSIBLE UNLESS you already have a loaded gun at hand.
In which case the government can come after you for using that gun
defensively.


it is not illegal to use a gun defensively in Australia, most guns in Aus
were not banned post 1996
What a limped-dicked attempt to change the subject
 
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I think the armed forces given their experience may know about
these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local
suppliers to supply them, how long do you think they will last if
the turn on the very people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able to
buy supplies

From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?

I think they stand a better chance than some comparatively lightly
lightly armed militia

LOL
Tell that to the Swiss who have successfully done exactly that for
centuries
Tell that to the Fins when the stood up the Soviets in the Winter
War.
Tell that to the Americans who did that to the Brits at the beginning
of their Revolution.
Tell that to Castro in Cuba
Tell that to the Costa Ricans in 2 if not 3 of their revolutions.

do you want to go through the differences :)

Why don't you start with the similarities, moron.

there aren't any

Actually they are, but clearly you're not smart enough to recognize them

coming from a bloke who compares the US with Mexico but discounts Canada
that is hilarious
Well it really doesn't take much to make an idiot laugh
 
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snip


unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an
impersonal way of killing

Another statement shows how ignorant you are
Most shootings can be summarized by the rule "3 shots, 3 yards, 3
seconds"
At 3 yards or less, shooting someone is neither "hands off" or
"impersonal".

a lot more hands off and impersonal than a stabbing or bludgeoning
someone and also more efficient

And naturally you speak from personal experience when you make this
claim ???

I've never stabbed or bludgeoned someone to death

So then why are you babbling about a subject in which you are
completely ignorant ?
Oh wait, that is true on just about any subject in your case

You've got to have actually done it to know that something is true? What
an idiotic comment


Certain things.
YES
Otherwise, you're like a nun counseling on male sexuality
Oh wait, that just about describes you blabbering about gun-control
effectiveness.

another logic breakdown on your part
Too bad you are unable to repudiate ANY of the facts that have been provided
so far
Come on back when you can do that.
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting
from defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites
for all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and
death by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms

I see... First I pick a close neighbor of the US and you say
that's not right because I should pick a 1st world nation

So I pick a first world nation, and again you're unhappy.


no I am perfectly happy for you to discuss the situation in SA.
I'll discuss Aus, NZ, Canada, France, Germany etc etc

Go right ahead....one case is all that is needed to disprove your
theory and since you've accepted one that means your theory as it
stands is crap.

so one exception proves the rule does it?


LOL
Not even smart enough to get that right.
It's ONE exception is ALL IT TAKES to DISprove the rule.

not in the real world i.e. all mammals give live birth except for
......

So you are claiming that gun control does not work "except for...
The problem with gun-control, is that there is an "except for", IN
EVERY CASE that has been presented, to invalidate the notion that
gun-control works...

except it does

NOPE !
You have yet to even GRASP the concept of CAUSATION vs correlation
All you have done so far is correlation
And that is NO PROOF at all

and you probably believe that smoking doesn't cause cancer

I'll accept that goalpost move as a surrender and admission that you are
stumped to even give a stupid response.

relevant comment and it shows how stupid your argument is
A change of subject is not proof of anything
Just proof that you can't stay on subject when the rubber meets pavement
A loser tactic
 
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The problems caused by having the population wandering
around outways the risks of an individual benefiting from
defensive gun us

Ok....let's see your evidence for that then.

----> Insert facts, figures, other evidence, and cites for
all of it here.

US verses Australia overall homicide rate and injury and
death
by gunshot

Sorry, at best that establishes a correlation, and a cherry
picked one at that.

Let's throw Mexico in there and see if your claims hold up.

Why do you want to compare the US to some 3rd world shithole

Because you claim it's all about the gun control. As such it
shouldn't matter what sort of country it is.

Are you saying your theories only work if you cherry pick the
countries?

But since you want to use 1st world countries...

Then let's compare to South Africa then.

It's a first world nation with strict gun control and another
example of the wonderfully low murder rates you claim always
results from that.

Classic cherry picking on your part. You seem to enjoy the
exceptions not the norms


It's no more cherry-picking than you trying to cherry-pick with
Australia or Canada
In this case, South Africa, as a First-World country, CLEARLY
counters your objection to Mexico.
It also CLEARLY blows out your claim that gun-laws will make you
safer You can also use Switzerland or Finland, 2 other
First-World
countries with loose gun laws and low crime and homicide rates.

much much tighter than the US's

Repeating that false comparison is just proof you lie.

Comparing Australia and Switzerland shows that Switzerland HAS FAR
LESS Crime than AUSTRALIA

so

And in Australia, militia members do NOT keep FULL AUTO ASSAULT
RIFLES + AMMO in their houses.

under strict controls unlike in the US



Not many US households have full auto assault rifles in them.


And NO ONE in the services has one issued to them to take home, that I
know of..

so?

Fuck off stupid

you've lost it haven't you?
Nope
But I have demonstrated you both stupid and ignorant
After a while it gets boring and repetitive
 
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I gave you the cite please read it and learn something


Actually, YOU DID NOT
You gave some second-hand opinion piece in a leftist rag

who cited the information, please read it and learn something
I read it and there was nothing to lean from that "opinion piece"
 
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I think the armed forces given their experience may know about
these
dangers

They may know about them, but since they rely on the local
suppliers to supply them, how long do you think they will last
if the turn on the very people they are supposed to protect ?

come on a capitalist society like the US they'll always be able
to buy supplies

From whom?

How will they get it to where it is needed?

Do you think they can protect EVERYTHING 24/7/365?

I think they stand a better chance than some comparatively lightly
lightly armed militia

LOL
Tell that to the Swiss who have successfully done exactly that for
centuries
Tell that to the Fins when the stood up the Soviets in the Winter
War.
Tell that to the Americans who did that to the Brits at the
beginning of their Revolution.
Tell that to Castro in Cuba
Tell that to the Costa Ricans in 2 if not 3 of their revolutions.

do you want to go through the differences :)

Why don't you start with the similarities, moron.

there aren't any

Actually they are, but clearly you're not smart enough to recognize them

coming from a bloke who compares the US with Mexico but discounts Canada
that is hilarious

Well it really doesn't take much to make an idiot laugh
Is that your experience in your own case?
 
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snip

Dealing with a 5 stupid year old is easier
Which current gun licensing laws in Australia
Be SPECIFIC, instead of trying to weasel with vague
generalizations.

that is specific as one can get

I'll accept that as an admission you don't know

as a gun owner I do and those are the laws

fyi
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+512+2006+FIRST+0+N

LOL
You need a permission to own a paint-ball gun
You need a permit to stage paint-ball games
Talk about a nanny state.
Ironic that since gun control was clamped down post Port Arthur,
things have gotten worse.

have they?

Yes they have
http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm
* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered
in 2002 that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns
and making it a crime to use a gun defensively,
armed robberies rose by 51%,
unarmed robberies by 37%,
assaults by 24%
and kidnappings by 43%.
While murders fell by 3%,
manslaughter rose by 16%."
Dr. John R. Lott, Jr., "Gun laws don't reduce crime,"
USA Today (May 9, 2002).
See also Rhett Watson and Matthew Bayley,
"Gun crime up 40pc since Port Arthur,"
The Daily Telegraph (April 28, 2002).

I'll stop there because that statement is BS

Prove it, false weasel-boi
But remember
If you get punished for keeping a loaded gun for self defense, you
have effectively made it illegal to use a gun defensively, by making it
IMPOSSIBLE UNLESS you already have a loaded gun at hand.
In which case the government can come after you for using that gun
defensively.


it is not illegal to use a gun defensively in Australia, most guns in Aus
were not banned post 1996

What a limped-dicked attempt to change the subject
that is what this part of the thread is discussing
>
 
"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
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snip


unfortunately guns give a hands off and to a certain extent an
impersonal way of killing

Another statement shows how ignorant you are
Most shootings can be summarized by the rule "3 shots, 3 yards, 3
seconds"
At 3 yards or less, shooting someone is neither "hands off" or
"impersonal".

a lot more hands off and impersonal than a stabbing or bludgeoning
someone and also more efficient

And naturally you speak from personal experience when you make this
claim ???

I've never stabbed or bludgeoned someone to death

So then why are you babbling about a subject in which you are
completely ignorant ?
Oh wait, that is true on just about any subject in your case

You've got to have actually done it to know that something is true?
What an idiotic comment


Certain things.
YES
Otherwise, you're like a nun counseling on male sexuality
Oh wait, that just about describes you blabbering about gun-control
effectiveness.

another logic breakdown on your part

Too bad you are unable to repudiate ANY of the facts that have been
provided so far
supply some and I'll repudiate them
 

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