OT: If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied land?...

[Peeler]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 14:12:15 +1000, Xeno, another brainless, troll-feeding,
senile Australian idiot, blathered:

Russia agreed to the creation of and the boundaries for Ukraine when the
USSR collapsed in on itself. Russia cannot be trusted to uphold its part
in any deal it makes with other countries.

You are aware -or aren\'t, you troll-feeding senile asshole- that the
trolling Scottish attention whore can go on like that forever? Just HOW
senile are you?

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 5:29:56 PM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 09:22:46 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid..invalid> wrote:

On 10/09/2023 22:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 10/09/2023 21:44, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied land?

You would need to read the terms of the peace treaty to know that and it
doesn\'t exist yet.

There will be no peace treaty. Only Russia wants one, because it is
being destroyed.

Look where the front line is arsehole.

Commander Kinsey can\'t remember where the front line was.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Colin Bignell]

On 12/09/2023 06:04, T wrote:

On 9/11/23 04:36, soup wrote:
On 11/09/2023 12:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 11/09/2023 03:36, rbowman wrote:

Had the US sat out WWII

That might have been difficult to do, given that Germany declared war
on the USA after their allies, Japan, attacked Pearl Harbour.

That is quite often forgotten, the USA did not join WWII out of \'the
goodness of their hearts\', they were forced to join by Germany
declaring war on them.


We were far from neutral, which is why Germany was
U-Boating supplies we were sending to Briton.

Selling to Britain. It was a commercial transaction. Even lease lend
supplies were supposed to be returned at a latter date, or replaced if
destroyed.


--
Colin Bignell

 

[soup]

On 12/09/2023 08:06, T wrote:

> The bloodshed would not stop.

True it would not stop immediately but it would cease a LOT quicker
than this endless cycle of
supply Ukranians with tanks, munitions, weapon systems and let lots of
Ukranians(and Russians) die. After all we can supply more T, M ,WS and
let more Ukranians(and Russians) die

Oh and remind me to repeat what you said
when your country get into trouble.

We have been invaded by a foreign power more times than enough with
MANY many people killed or displaced.
Where was any country, 1500 miles away, when the highlands were being
cleared?

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 02:00:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 12:47:49 +0100, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

On 11/9/2023 6:44 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied land?

Ukraine will be unlikely to agree to any peace deal whilst ever any of
Ukraine territory remains occupied by Russia and that includes territory
illegally annexed in 2014.

Ukraine used to be the USSR, they\'re just taking it back.

Russia doesn\'t want all of it. They only want to annexe some Eastern
areas of the shit-hole where ethnic Russians were being killed by
Ukrainian neo-Nazis and the clown that runs the country was doing
nothing to stop them. Why are we supporting neo-Nazis?

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 22:10:54 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 11:03:45?AM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 12:47:49 +0100, Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 11/9/2023 6:44 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied land?

Ukraine will be unlikely to agree to any peace deal whilst ever any of
Ukraine territory remains occupied by Russia and that includes territory
illegally annexed in 2014.

Ukraine used to be the USSR, they\'re just taking it back.

Both Russia and the Ukraine used to be part of the USSR. When that fell apart they both became independent countries. Putin is trying to pretend that Russian can take back areas that used to be part of the pre-1917 Russian Empire. Britain might try to take back the eastern seaboard America on the same basis. It\'s a dubious claim.

What\'s dubious about it? Israel was created in 1948 out of land seized
from Palestine and everyone recognises Israel as a legitimate state!
(all the important countries, anyway).

 

[Custos Custodum]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 11:09:39 +0100, soup <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:

On 12/09/2023 08:06, T wrote:

The bloodshed would not stop.

True it would not stop immediately but it would cease a LOT quicker
than this endless cycle of
supply Ukranians with tanks, munitions, weapon systems and let lots of
Ukranians(and Russians) die. After all we can supply more T, M ,WS and
let more Ukranians(and Russians) die

Oh and remind me to repeat what you said
when your country get into trouble.

We have been invaded by a foreign power more times than enough with
MANY many people killed or displaced.

To be fair, the traffic went both ways. How many times did Berwick
change hands?

Where was any country, 1500 miles away, when the highlands were being
cleared?

That wasn\'t an invasion. The clearances were mainly conducted by the
clan chieftains and land owners themselves. (Not personally, of
course. Their factors hired local thugs to do the dirty work.)

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 12/09/2023 13:46, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 02:00:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 12:47:49 +0100, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

On 11/9/2023 6:44 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied land?

Ukraine will be unlikely to agree to any peace deal whilst ever any of
Ukraine territory remains occupied by Russia and that includes territory
illegally annexed in 2014.

Ukraine used to be the USSR, they\'re just taking it back.

Russia doesn\'t want all of it. They only want to annexe some Eastern
areas of the shit-hole where ethnic Russians were being killed by
Ukrainian neo-Nazis and the clown that runs the country was doing
nothing to stop them. Why are we supporting neo-Nazis?

Russia wants all of it. Especially the eastern bits where they killed
their own citizens to fake an excuse to take it, because it has all the
oil coal and gas. And they want all the grain, and they want the black
sea ports as well.

Anyone who actually believes there was \'ethnic conflict\' is a moron.
I cannot understanbd people who dont trust their own government actually
trusting a single thing the Russian state says.

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

 

[T]

On 9/12/23 01:53, Colin Bignell wrote:

On 12/09/2023 06:04, T wrote:
On 9/11/23 04:36, soup wrote:
On 11/09/2023 12:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 11/09/2023 03:36, rbowman wrote:

Had the US sat out WWII

That might have been difficult to do, given that Germany declared
war on the USA after their allies, Japan, attacked Pearl Harbour.

That is quite often forgotten, the USA did not join WWII out of \'the
goodness of their hearts\', they were forced to join by Germany
declaring war on them.


We were far from neutral, which is why Germany was
U-Boating supplies we were sending to Briton.

Selling to Britain. It was a commercial transaction. Even lease lend
supplies were supposed to be returned at a latter date, or replaced if
destroyed.

And why did we not sell to Japan and Germany? Hmmm.

We lost a lot of lives (merchant marines) taking
undeclared sides. We were suppose to be
neutral, but under the table, we were not.

Don\'t get me wrong, I believe we did the
right thing.

 

[T]

On 9/12/23 03:09, soup wrote:

On 12/09/2023 08:06, T wrote:

The bloodshed would not stop.

 True it would not stop immediately but it would cease a LOT quicker
than this endless cycle of
supply Ukranians with tanks, munitions, weapon systems and let lots of
Ukranians(and Russians) die.  After all we can supply more T, M ,WS and
let more Ukranians(and Russians) die

Oh and remind me to repeat what you said
when your country get into trouble.

 We have been invaded by a foreign power more times than enough with
MANY many people killed or displaced.
  Where was any country, 1500 miles away, when the highlands were being
cleared?

The Russians are losing. The war is slowly grinding
to its end. It is not endless.

And the bloodshed, although atrocious, will be
nothing like the 200 million murdered in the
Soviet terror famine of Ukraine. (The one
covered up by American Pravda.)

In Vietnam, the appeasers wanted to dump the
Vietnamese under the bus to stop the killing.
The hundreds of thousands killed the fighting
was dwarfed by the 10 to 20 million deaths
caused by the appeasers in the name of stopping
the killing.

So you are right, the killing would eventually
stop. The numbers would be horrifying.

Ukraine has ever right to fight for their
freedom. And every right to ask for help.
American would not exist today if not for
France\'s help.

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 11:59:16 AM UTC-7, T wrote:

On 9/12/23 03:09, soup wrote:
On 12/09/2023 08:06, T wrote:

The bloodshed would not stop.

True it would not stop immediately but it would cease a LOT quicker
than this endless cycle of
supply Ukranians with tanks, munitions, weapon systems and let lots of
Ukranians(and Russians) die. After all we can supply more T, M ,WS and
let more Ukranians(and Russians) die

Oh and remind me to repeat what you said
when your country get into trouble.

We have been invaded by a foreign power more times than enough with
MANY many people killed or displaced.
Where was any country, 1500 miles away, when the highlands were being
cleared?
The Russians are losing. The war is slowly grinding
to its end. It is not endless.

And the bloodshed, although atrocious, will be
nothing like the 200 million murdered in the
Soviet terror famine of Ukraine. (The one
covered up by American Pravda.)

This says 3 to 5 millions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

 

[SteveW]

On 12/09/2023 02:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 12:47:49 +0100, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

On 11/9/2023 6:44 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied land?

Ukraine will be unlikely to agree to any peace deal whilst ever any of
Ukraine territory remains occupied by Russia and that includes territory
illegally annexed in 2014.

Ukraine used to be the USSR, they\'re just taking it back.

Russia does not equal USSR.

 

[SteveW]

On 12/09/2023 09:53, Colin Bignell wrote:

On 12/09/2023 06:04, T wrote:
On 9/11/23 04:36, soup wrote:
On 11/09/2023 12:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 11/09/2023 03:36, rbowman wrote:

Had the US sat out WWII

That might have been difficult to do, given that Germany declared
war on the USA after their allies, Japan, attacked Pearl Harbour.

That is quite often forgotten, the USA did not join WWII out of \'the
goodness of their hearts\', they were forced to join by Germany
declaring war on them.


We were far from neutral, which is why Germany was
U-Boating supplies we were sending to Briton.

Selling to Britain. It was a commercial transaction. Even lease lend
supplies were supposed to be returned at a latter date, or replaced if
destroyed.

The final installment paying off lend-lease was made in 2006.

 

[T]

On 9/12/23 15:38, SteveW wrote:

On 12/09/2023 02:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 12:47:49 +0100, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au
wrote:

On 11/9/2023 6:44 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied land?

Ukraine will be unlikely to agree to any peace deal whilst ever any of
Ukraine territory remains occupied by Russia and that includes territory
illegally annexed in 2014.

Ukraine used to be the USSR, they\'re just taking it back.

Russia does not equal USSR.

Have you listened to Putin\'s thoughts on the subject?
Biggest mistake in human history???

Even Gorbachev said that Putin had undone Gorbachev\'s
life\'s work.

 

[rbowman]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 23:38:13 +0100, SteveW wrote:

On 12/09/2023 02:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 12:47:49 +0100, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au
wrote:

On 11/9/2023 6:44 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied
land?

Ukraine will be unlikely to agree to any peace deal whilst ever any of
Ukraine territory remains occupied by Russia and that includes
territory illegally annexed in 2014.

Ukraine used to be the USSR, they\'re just taking it back.

Russia does not equal USSR.

Okay, the Russian Empire is taking it back... Maybe Poland would like
their part back too. The Ukraine has a very limited history as an actual
country.

 

[Colin Bignell]

On 12/09/2023 19:46, T wrote:

On 9/12/23 01:53, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 12/09/2023 06:04, T wrote:
On 9/11/23 04:36, soup wrote:
On 11/09/2023 12:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 11/09/2023 03:36, rbowman wrote:

Had the US sat out WWII

That might have been difficult to do, given that Germany declared
war on the USA after their allies, Japan, attacked Pearl Harbour.

That is quite often forgotten, the USA did not join WWII out of \'the
goodness of their hearts\', they were forced to join by Germany
declaring war on them.


We were far from neutral, which is why Germany was
U-Boating supplies we were sending to Briton.

Selling to Britain. It was a commercial transaction. Even lease lend
supplies were supposed to be returned at a latter date, or replaced if
destroyed.

And why did we not sell to Japan and Germany?  Hmmm

Because you were opposing Japan\'s expansion into China and Germany was
their ally?

We lost a lot of lives (merchant marines) taking
undeclared sides.  We were suppose to be
neutral, but under the table, we were not.

The vast majority, 96%, were lost after you joined the war. At least
some of the 344 who died before 1942 were probably serving on British
ships. Most British ships had mixed nationality crew as we simply had
too many merchant ships to crew only with Britons. Some of them may even
have volunteered to join British ships to aid the war effort, as many
Americans in the UK did. Nine American pilots flew in the Battle of
Britain and there was even an American Home Guard unit. Lots of
Americans chose to fight for the allies before Pearl Harbour, but as
individuals, not as representatives of the US government.

Don\'t get me wrong, I believe we did the
right thing.

--
Colin Bignell

 

[rbowman]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 15:52:10 -0700, T wrote:

> Even Gorbachev said that Putin had undone Gorbachev\'s life\'s work.

Would you pay much attention to a US president whose failed policies led
to the dissolution of the US? Gorbachev\'s life\'s work was a disaster.

 

[rbowman]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 23:43:34 +0100, SteveW wrote:

On 12/09/2023 09:53, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 12/09/2023 06:04, T wrote:
On 9/11/23 04:36, soup wrote:
On 11/09/2023 12:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 11/09/2023 03:36, rbowman wrote:

Had the US sat out WWII

That might have been difficult to do, given that Germany declared
war on the USA after their allies, Japan, attacked Pearl Harbour.

That is quite often forgotten, the USA did not join WWII out of \'the
goodness of their hearts\', they were forced to join by Germany
declaring war on them.


We were far from neutral, which is why Germany was U-Boating supplies
we were sending to Briton.

Selling to Britain. It was a commercial transaction. Even lease lend
supplies were supposed to be returned at a latter date, or replaced if
destroyed.

The final installment paying off lend-lease was made in 2006.

Was WWI ever paid off?

https://quote.org/quote/borrowed-money-even-when-owing-to-a-598695

\"Borrowed money, even when owing to a nation by another nation, should be
repaid. They hired the money, didn\'t they? Let them pay it\"

That was 10 years after the end of WWI when Britain wasn\'t paying up.

That brings up an interesting in the context of the thread. Prior to 2014
the Ukraine was the poorest and most corrupt nation in Europe by all
accounts. Since then they have received billions in cash and materiel. Is
that all a write off?

Even stipulating peace breaks out and the Ukraine gets all the territory
it claims back, what is the incentive for the costly rebuilding of a
country that couldn\'t make a decent living in the first place? If the IMF
gets their hands on them they will wish Russia had won.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 13/09/2023 00:23, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 23:38:13 +0100, SteveW wrote:

On 12/09/2023 02:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 12:47:49 +0100, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au
wrote:

On 11/9/2023 6:44 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied
land?

Ukraine will be unlikely to agree to any peace deal whilst ever any of
Ukraine territory remains occupied by Russia and that includes
territory illegally annexed in 2014.

Ukraine used to be the USSR, they\'re just taking it back.

Russia does not equal USSR.

Okay, the Russian Empire is taking it back... Maybe Poland would like
their part back too. The Ukraine has a very limited history as an actual
country.

I want half of France back. Then we could at least stop these bloody
immigrants...
....and while we are at it, why not invade Ireland and drive tanks into
Dublin?

--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 13/09/2023 00:32, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 15:52:10 -0700, T wrote:

Even Gorbachev said that Putin had undone Gorbachev\'s life\'s work.

Would you pay much attention to a US president whose failed policies led
to the dissolution of the US? Gorbachev\'s life\'s work was a disaster.

The sound of barrels being scraped is deafening

Can we have the USA back please?

--
\"When one man dies it\'s a tragedy. When thousands die it\'s statistics.\"

Josef Stalin