Mains power voltage drop to reduce usage?...

[server]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 01:02:35 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 00:41:33 -0000, Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

mandag den 14. november 2022 kl. 01.27.58 UTC+1 skrev Commander Kinsey:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.

Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.

I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.

I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.

The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.

A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.

Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?

the power station makes electricity not heat....

Is the heat to electricity section that inefficient?!

Yes, you can blame Mr Carnot for that .

For best mechanical (and electric) efficiency, you should have as much
temperature _difference_ between the hot and cold side (measured in
Kelvins) as possible.You should maximize the hot side temperature and
minimize the cold side temperature.

In a coal fired power station, you can have hit side temperatures over
550 C, but current nuclear plants only tolerate about
300 C.

Equally important is the cold side temperature, in cold climate near
the sea. you cold get about 0 C or 273 K, but in hot climate with air
cooling towers, the cold side temperature can be over 40 C,

Practical efficiencies for coal fired plants can be over 40 %, while
nuclear plants are above 30 %.

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 07:59:43 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:24:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/11/2022 15:02, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 12:42:26 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 09/11/2022 12:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don\'t have house heating. I heat a room at a time using a butane
stove.

Carlos, I hope you have a CO detector? It doesn\'t take a lot to go wrong
with a portable stove to produce poison gas.

I have one in my head, it\'s called getting a headache.  I don\'t waste
money on safety shit.

That\'s for CO2, fumes, and lack of O2, not abundance of CO.

The first symptom for CO is usually getting dead.

IME its a splitting headache and drowsiness.

One can be asleep and stay that way. CO detectors do save lives.

The detectors themselves aren\'t very reliable, in they they tend to
false-alarm before their rated lifetime. Mine seem to last about 5
years. I think the operation is based on irrevsible chemical reactions
that can be poisoned by other things.

I think that you are correct. Modern CO and smoke detectors are
required to brick themselves when a specified time in service is
exceeded, to force replacement.

Joe Gwinn

 

[danny burstein]

In <iv65nhtrqc39c4s2g4tejt2vkehgs4gm64@4ax.com> upsidedown@downunder.com writes:

[snip]

Is the heat to electricity section that inefficient?!

Yes, you can blame Mr Carnot for that .

For best mechanical (and electric) efficiency, you should have as much
temperature _difference_ between the hot and cold side (measured in
Kelvins) as possible.You should maximize the hot side temperature and
minimize the cold side temperature.

In a coal fired power station, you can have hit side temperatures over
550 C, but current nuclear plants only tolerate about
300 C.

Those of us with long memories and who lived in the NYC area
recall the original Indian Point nuclear power plant
(they later added #2 and #3) had a fossil fueled
additional boiler to yes, raise the temperature
of the steam even hgher...

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2022-11-09 21:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 07:07:54 -0000, <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:

On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:03:08 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Depends.  Do you have 3 phase motors?

In my country house I currently have only one pump, which require
three phases.

That can be done with single phase power and a three phase inverter
(single phase input, three phase output). I don\'t know the current price
of that, though.

Typically the single phase 230 V input inverter has 127/220 V three
phase output. The 230/400 V motors are much more common.

The other alterative is to use 3 capacitors to generate the phases
from single phase,, but the output power is severely reduced.

Is it possible to use a special transformer to shift the phase?  So you
take a single phase and lag it a bit?  Do that twice over, then you have
three phases cheaply.

I have forgotten the math for this, but anyway, it is not cheap. Copper
has never been cheap. The cheap method has always been one capacitor, to
generate a bit of a phase. Many motors use this trick. Look inside a
household fan, for instance.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Peeler]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 21:00:51 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered

Digital things can be hacked.

If found one goes to prison.

The dumb Scottish wanker can\'t hack ANYTHING. He can only troll! And you
dumb senile spick can\'t hack anything either. You sick asshole can only feed
the dumb troll! <G>

 

[Peeler]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 22:16:10 +0200, upsidedown@downunder.com, another
mentally deficient, troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

Is the heat to electricity section that inefficient?!

Yes, you can blame Mr Carnot for that .

Who is to blame for it that you are troll-feeding senile shithead, you
senile piece of shit? The troll? Your senility? The shit you got for brains?
All three together?

 

[Peeler]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 21:04:42 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered


> Put a paper card in the mailbox for me to read the meter and mail to them.

Will you fucked up sick dumb spick finally keep your sick shit out of these
three ngs?

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 10:20:39 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 09:57:56 -0800 (PST), \"ke...@kjwdesigns.com\"
keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Monday, 14 November 2022 at 09:30:48 UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
...
A heat pump can deliver a given amount of space heating or hot water
at about 1/3 the cost of direct gas or resistive electric heating.

Suppose you have 120 VAC and want to charge a 24 volt battery. You
could rectify and filter to 150 VDC, and connect that to the battery
through a resistor. Or you could use a transformer or a switching
regulator. Your engineering decision.

...

If the objective is to provide space heating at relatively low temperature it doesn\'t make any difference which solution you choose. They are still 100% efficient.

Any heat developed in the resistor dropper in your simulation is creating desired output inanition to any that is delivered to the battery (In this case it is a heat sink at the output temperature).

If your definition of \'efficiency\' includes entropy then it would indeed be better to use a heat engine with its source as the high temperature and discard waste heat to the hot water or other area needing space heating. Some of the input heat would then be converted to a more valuable form such as mechanical or electrical power.

Or more heat.



kw

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_heat_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle

My definition of efficiency is energy efficiency, not heat efficiency.
A resistive space heater is 100% heat efficient; nothing goes up a
flue. A good gas furnace can be \"90% efficient.\" But a heat pump can
be 3x as energy efficient as either, for the same amount of hot air or
hot water. We pay for energy.

I would suggest adding procurement, installation, and ongoing repair
and maintenance costs. Heat pumps work well enough in warmish places,
but are far more complex and failure-prone than say a gas furnace.


War story: Some decades ago, my kid sister and her late first husband
built a house in Tampa, Florida, heated and cooled by a heat pump
system. Which never worked, and the local HVAC outfit that provided
and installed it expected her to pay for more or less complete
replacement, using money she didn\'t have. Which is when I heard about
it.

Apparently, a tiny bit of water had remained in or gotten into the
freon system, where it soon turned into a collection of toxic fluorine
based compounds and acids (a well known consequence of having any
water in a freon refrigeration system), which will have pretty much
destroyed everything in contact with those acids.

And I do mean toxic; this is not exaggerated. Think Hydrofluoric
Acid.

But this HVAC system never worked, and so it cannot have been caused
by anything kid sister had done or not done, but the local HVAC
company was not budging.

So I had her contact the manufacturer of the heat pump system and tell
her long sad story. The manufacturer investigated, was appalled, and
just took over. The system was totally replaced, and then it worked
quite well.

One assumes that the local HVAC company had done this to other
customers before. I don\'t know the fate of that local HVAC outfit,
but it cannot have been pretty. Hope they went bankrupt.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Peeler]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 21:05:39 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered


> Pure physics. Not amazing at all. Most people in Spain use it.

Amazing that the good people in Spain can produce an idiotic cretin like
you!

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

mandag den 14. november 2022 kl. 21.16.19 UTC+1 skrev upsid...@downunder.com:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 01:02:35 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 00:41:33 -0000, Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

mandag den 14. november 2022 kl. 01.27.58 UTC+1 skrev Commander Kinsey:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.

Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.

I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.

I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.

The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.

A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.

Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?

the power station makes electricity not heat....

Is the heat to electricity section that inefficient?!

Yes, you can blame Mr Carnot for that .

For best mechanical (and electric) efficiency, you should have as much
temperature _difference_ between the hot and cold side (measured in
Kelvins) as possible.You should maximize the hot side temperature and
minimize the cold side temperature.

In a coal fired power station, you can have hit side temperatures over
550 C, but current nuclear plants only tolerate about
300 C.

Equally important is the cold side temperature, in cold climate near
the sea. you cold get about 0 C or 273 K, but in hot climate with air
cooling towers, the cold side temperature can be over 40 C,

Practical efficiencies for coal fired plants can be over 40 %, while
nuclear plants are above 30 %.

the coal fired plant, nearly 25 years old is 47% on just generating electricity
it also does district heating so it is into the 90s percent with an ideal mix

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 11:56:12 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 07:59:43 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:24:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/11/2022 15:02, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 12:42:26 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 09/11/2022 12:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don\'t have house heating. I heat a room at a time using a butane
stove.

Carlos, I hope you have a CO detector? It doesn\'t take a lot to go wrong
with a portable stove to produce poison gas.

I have one in my head, it\'s called getting a headache.  I don\'t waste
money on safety shit.

That\'s for CO2, fumes, and lack of O2, not abundance of CO.

The first symptom for CO is usually getting dead.

IME its a splitting headache and drowsiness.

One can be asleep and stay that way. CO detectors do save lives.

The detectors themselves aren\'t very reliable, in they they tend to
false-alarm before their rated lifetime. Mine seem to last about 5
years. I think the operation is based on irrevsible chemical reactions
that can be poisoned by other things.

I think that you are correct. Modern CO and smoke detectors are
required to brick themselves when a specified time in service is
exceeded, to force replacement.

Joe Gwinn

The ones with a primary lithium battery and 10 year rated lifetimes
are great, but they don\'t seem to last for 10 years.

 

[Peeler]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 21:09:21 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered

And getting out of the valley could take half an hour, if you had a
bottle of air to breath meanwhile.

Will your idiotic shit in these groups never end, you idiotic dumb spick?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 19:52:36 -0000, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 07:07:54 -0000, <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:

On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:03:08 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Depends. Do you have 3 phase motors?

In my country house I currently have only one pump, which require
three phases.

That can be done with single phase power and a three phase inverter
(single phase input, three phase output). I don\'t know the current price
of that, though.

Typically the single phase 230 V input inverter has 127/220 V three
phase output. The 230/400 V motors are much more common.

The other alterative is to use 3 capacitors to generate the phases
from single phase,, but the output power is severely reduced.

2kW 70 quid and it\'s variable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wresetly-Variable-Frequency-Inverter-Universal/dp/B0BK7Y1Y54/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=3+phase+inverter&qid=1668023425&sr=8-5

Or you could buy a cheap car alternator (which is a 1 kW 3 phase generator) and physically power it from a single phase 1kW motor. Noisy though, but if you\'re using it to poser a three phase motor anyway....

 

[Bob F]

On 11/11/2022 3:13 AM, Max Demian wrote:

On 10/11/2022 22:53, Bob F wrote:
On 11/10/2022 10:44 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 10/11/2022 12:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-10 13:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:

\"Ice forms in the fridge part\".  Refrigerated food is damaged when
frozen.  It\'s not fit for purpose.

It doesn\'t freeze the food, even milk. The ice is on the back of
the fridge part. There is a drain to get rid of water condensed
there but it freezes instead.

This happens when the fridge can not cope with the load.

It can be the fridge is simply a bad design. The evaporator or cold
surface is too small. It can be that the door is opened too many
times. That the door doesn\'t close tight. Summer (or house heating
to high). Whatever.

No, it\'s because the thermostat is faulty or badly calibrated. Every
few days the compressor *might* turn off, usually for about three
hours. I can live with it.


No, it\'s because the ice is keeping the cold air from the freezer from
getting to the refer section.

It\'s always behaved like that, including just after a full defrost.

Did a \"full defrost\" include at least 24 hours of defrosting, and making
sure the defrost system is fully working?

 

[Peeler]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 06:39:40 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
\"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole.\"
Message-ID: <pu07vj$s5$2@dont-email.me>

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 15:49:59 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 14:51:23 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:11:53 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-10 02:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:01:19 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


As I said, this is a modern country. Basically the whole of Spain is
using smart meters, changed maybe ten years ago. And I saw nothing in
media about them being faulty.

They\'re (form your point of view) pointless, and a possible source of
spying and control. Why would you be happy with this? They can turn
off your power at will!

Well, as I said, I no longer have to bother to open the door for the
meter man.

You don\'t anyway, what was he going to do if you were out?

Anyway, my meter is read about once every 5 years.

Water used to be unmetered at our cabin, but then they installed smart
meters. I got an email from TDPUD that they suspected a leak, based on
the usage pattern. They sent me graphs and we saw a constant low-level
flow when nobody was there. It was a leaking shutoff+drain valve.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lnq4lzds3ku5nko/Truckee_Leak.jpg?raw=1

The big plateau was the leak.

Realtime metering catches stuff like that.

Leaking water I don\'t care about, it\'s free, if it\'s big enough I see water.
Leaking gas I smell.
Shorting electricity I smell.

 

[Bob F]

On 11/11/2022 3:14 AM, Max Demian wrote:

On 10/11/2022 22:52, Bob F wrote:
On 11/10/2022 4:07 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:50:43 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 07/11/2022 23:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:46:03 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 06/11/2022 19:49, Bob F wrote:
On 11/6/2022 9:53 AM, Max Demian wrote:

Actually my fridge freezer might as well not have one as it rarely
turns off. Ice forms inside the fridge part and you can just about
freeze vodka in an ice cube tray so it must be about -25C.

Have you considered adjusting it?

It\'s set to 1, which is next to off, so I assume that\'s the minimum
refrigeration.

Sounds like the thermostat is fucked, will your landlord replace it?

I don\'t know as it does still work as an FF. I\'m not too bothered with
it as it is.

\"Ice forms in the fridge part\".  Refrigerated food is damaged when
frozen.  It\'s not fit for purpose.

It doesn\'t freeze the food, even milk. The ice is on the back of the
fridge part. There is a drain to get rid of water condensed there but
it freezes instead.


Is the defrost circuitry working?

It doesn\'t have one that I know of. How would I know?

Use the magic google. Model #, and \"defrost\" or \"defrost timer\" or
\"defrost heater\", or look at the parts list.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 16:02:38 -0000, Peter <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

On 11/13/2022 9:23 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 18:24:47 -0000, Peter
HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

On 11/12/2022 11:53 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 19:43:02 -0000, Peter
HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

Actually, the symptoms of CO poisoning is highly dependent on the
concentration of CO in the inhaled air. Relatively low but dangerous
concentrations will usually produce a headache and/or nausea as one of
the first symptoms. But extremely high levels can produce loss of
consciousness as the first symptom.

So does being clouted over the head with an axe, but you tend to
avoid it.

There are well documented cases of inadvertent exposure to extremely
high concentrations of CO that caused serious illness and/or death. Two
examples are (1) a malfunctioning Zamboni at an ice rink

ROTFPMSL! No way that could fill that huge space with much CO.


No? What about:

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/carbon-monoxide-leak-delaware-ice-rink-close/38420/

and

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2014/12/15/faulty-ice-resurfacing-machine-blamed-for-sickening-dozens-at-minor-league-game-with-carbon-monoxide/

and

https://oem.bmj.com/content/59/4/224

You believe the internet. Ok.

 

[Max Demian]

On 11/11/2022 17:30, Bob F wrote:

On 11/11/2022 3:13 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 10/11/2022 22:53, Bob F wrote:
On 11/10/2022 10:44 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 10/11/2022 12:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-10 13:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:

\"Ice forms in the fridge part\".  Refrigerated food is damaged
when frozen.  It\'s not fit for purpose.

It doesn\'t freeze the food, even milk. The ice is on the back of
the fridge part. There is a drain to get rid of water condensed
there but it freezes instead.

This happens when the fridge can not cope with the load.

It can be the fridge is simply a bad design. The evaporator or cold
surface is too small. It can be that the door is opened too many
times. That the door doesn\'t close tight. Summer (or house heating
to high). Whatever.

No, it\'s because the thermostat is faulty or badly calibrated. Every
few days the compressor *might* turn off, usually for about three
hours. I can live with it.


No, it\'s because the ice is keeping the cold air from the freezer
from getting to the refer section.

It\'s always behaved like that, including just after a full defrost.


Did a \"full defrost\" include at least 24 hours of defrosting, and making
sure the defrost system is fully working?

What defrost system? I just turned it off using the knob inside, which
is also supposed to control the temperature (but doesn\'t). Takes 4-5
hours for all the ice in the freezer part to melt.

--
Max Demian

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 12:48:48 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 03:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 10:43:50 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 12/11/2022 13:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-12 11:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 10:34:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/11/2022 20:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-11 14:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 13:43:53 -0000, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message
news:22p14j-2u9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor...
On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:


To much CO2 will lead to
unconsciousness but as I understand it, it is not poisonous as
such,
so a
few breaths of normal air is enough to revive a person.

Apparently people have died in their sleep from CO2 suddenly coming
from a nearby lake. I call bullshit.

Well, it is true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limnic_eruption
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster

Not only is it true, but i got close enough to it to realize how
easy it
would be, when on a school visit to a brewery I put my head below the
rim of a fermentation tank to smell the brew and got a lungful of
pure CO2.

To breathe in and have it feel like you haven\'t, is extremely scary.

But you noticed the problem and moved to somewhere with less of it,
unlike the morons that died.

They couldn\'t. The entire valley was full with CO2, for miles.

Did you read the articles?


*I* have and I can absolutely understand it. I wouldn\'t have lasted more
than 15 seconds in a pure CO2 atmosphere and I knew it.

Every year or so someone dies in a farm tank or fuel tank that hasn\'t
been ventilated.

See when you\'re having trouble breathing, move.

Yeah, sure.

Some of us have brains.