Mains power voltage drop to reduce usage?...

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2022-11-16 20:05, Bob F wrote:

On 11/16/2022 3:37 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-16 06:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 12:46:08 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 03:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 20:04:42 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Anyway, my meter is read about once every 5 years.

They really work well, no problems detected, AFAIK.

Have you measured it?  Switch off everything in your house, and
use all
your LED lighting at once.  Add up what they should be using, and
see
what the meter thinks.  There have been reports LED lighting is
measured
at up to 5 times what it really is.

It is the same power as it was before, with the mechanical meter, or
less.

Maybe they fixed it after the big farce.  And of course there\'s still
this:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/smart-meter-warning-thousands-customers-28458788

Maybe there never was such a problem in Spain. We did things right from
the start.

There was never any need for smart meters.  What a waste
(economically and environmentally) making all that new equipment.


Obviously the people that held the purses did not think like you, thus
you are mistaken.


Kinsey knows everything better than anyone but trump. In their own
\"minds\", of course.

Yes :-D

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2022-11-16 15:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:47:36 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 22:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 15:49:59 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 14:51:23 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:11:53 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-10 02:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:01:19 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


As I said, this is a modern country. Basically the whole of
Spain is
using smart meters, changed maybe ten years ago. And I saw
nothing in
media about them being faulty.

They\'re (form your point of view) pointless, and a possible
source of
spying and control.  Why would you be happy with this?  They can
turn
off your power at will!

Well, as I said, I no longer have to bother to open the door for the
meter man.

You don\'t anyway, what was he going to do if you were out?

Anyway, my meter is read about once every 5 years.

Water used to be unmetered at our cabin, but then they installed smart
meters. I got an email from TDPUD that they suspected a leak, based on
the usage pattern. They sent me graphs and we saw a constant low-level
flow when nobody was there. It was a leaking shutoff+drain valve.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lnq4lzds3ku5nko/Truckee_Leak.jpg?raw=1

The big plateau was the leak.

Realtime metering catches stuff like that.

Leaking water I don\'t care about, it\'s free, if it\'s big enough I see
water.

Not free here,

What an absurd place to choose to live.

I did not choose.

It derives from simply having little water in the country.

and sometimes you do not see it.

If you do not see it then it isn\'t very big.

Think that way, and you will not care about paying double the normal
bill in water.

Leaking gas I smell.

Sometimes. Some thought like you, now they are dead.

Then they must have had a poor sense of smell.  I smelt mine when I
didn\'t do up a connection very well under the floor.

Shorting electricity I smell.

Both, well never mind.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 20:27:35 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered


> It doesn\'t matter if you see it in realtime or not.

That\'s right, troll-feeding senile asshole! What matters to him is whether
you take all his idiotic baits or no, you dumb sad spick!

 

[Scott Lurndal]

\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:

On 2022-11-16 15:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:47:36 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Leaking water I don\'t care about, it\'s free, if it\'s big enough I see
water.

Not free here,

What an absurd place to choose to live.

I did not choose.

It derives from simply having little water in the country.

The UK offers unmetered service for circa UKP30-40/month. That\'s rare
in most other parts of the world which as you note have limited
supplies of fresh potable water.

Most of the American west is in serious or extreme drought conditions.

Water Factoids:
https://www.usbr.gov/mp/arwec/water-facts-ww-water-sup.html

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 20:27:56 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered

Kinsey knows everything better than anyone but trump. In their own
\"minds\", of course.


Yes :-D

Yes, but you STILL love sucking the unwashed Scottish wanker\'s cock, you
fucked up senile sucker of troll cock!

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 20:30:27 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered

Think that way, and you will not care about paying double the normal
bill in water.

Like you not caring about spreading your uselesss sick senile shit in these
groups, you trolling sick senile shithead?

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2022-11-16, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
On 2022-11-16 15:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:47:36 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Leaking water I don\'t care about, it\'s free, if it\'s big enough I see
water.

Not free here,

What an absurd place to choose to live.

I did not choose.

It derives from simply having little water in the country.

The UK offers unmetered service for circa UKP30-40/month. That\'s rare
in most other parts of the world which as you note have limited
supplies of fresh potable water.

We have plenty of water from the Great Lakes. My water is metered
anyway. We pay for what we use; we\'re not communists. Manufacture of
potable water costs money to treat the incoming water and outgoing
sewage. Like any other manufacturing cost, it\'s passed along to the
consumer.

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[Scott Lurndal]

Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com> writes:

On 2022-11-16, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
On 2022-11-16 15:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:47:36 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Leaking water I don\'t care about, it\'s free, if it\'s big enough I see
water.

Not free here,

What an absurd place to choose to live.

I did not choose.

It derives from simply having little water in the country.

The UK offers unmetered service for circa UKP30-40/month. That\'s rare
in most other parts of the world which as you note have limited
supplies of fresh potable water.

We have plenty of water from the Great Lakes.

\"Flint\"

My water is metered
anyway. We pay for what we use; we\'re not communists. Manufacture of
potable water costs money to treat the incoming water and outgoing
sewage. Like any other manufacturing cost, it\'s passed along to the
consumer.

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

[\"Followup-To:\" header set to alt.home.repair.]
On 2022-11-16, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com> writes:
On 2022-11-16, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
On 2022-11-16 15:05, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:47:36 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Leaking water I don\'t care about, it\'s free, if it\'s big enough I see
water.

Not free here,

What an absurd place to choose to live.

I did not choose.

It derives from simply having little water in the country.

The UK offers unmetered service for circa UKP30-40/month. That\'s rare
in most other parts of the world which as you note have limited
supplies of fresh potable water.

We have plenty of water from the Great Lakes.

\"Flint\"

They had plenty of water. They also had other problems.

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 12:48:54 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 15:52:50 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 12/11/2022 15:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 15:13:10 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 12/11/2022 14:58, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:02:03 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid
wrote:
On 11/10/22 05:51, Max Demian wrote:

[snip]

I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas.
It\'s a waste.

Waste of what? If you heat with electricity heat is wasted in the
cooling towers of the power station .

and in transmission lines.

Power stations should be closer to houses.

Do you want to live in the shadow of a power station?

Wind turbines, yes, why not?

Wind turbines don\'t provide district heating.

They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?

Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.

So not required. With wind turbines, you\'d use the electricity obviously.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 17:36:46 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 13/11/2022 16:02, Bob F wrote:
On 11/13/2022 4:48 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:

They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?

Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Steam_Company

Sounds dangerous, especially if room heating is done directly by steam
radiators. (The ones I\'ve seen are the same size an electric storage
heaters with insulation, grills and lagged steam pipes.)

In this country for domestic installations they use water at a lot
higher temperature than normal central heating I think. Still could be
dangerous if a pipe bursts.

Do you always go through life worrying about possibilities?

Pssst, move away from the hot thing.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 18:36:57 -0000, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/13/2022 9:36 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 13/11/2022 16:02, Bob F wrote:
On 11/13/2022 4:48 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:

They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?

Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Steam_Company

Sounds dangerous, especially if room heating is done directly by steam
radiators. (The ones I\'ve seen are the same size an electric storage
heaters with insulation, grills and lagged steam pipes.)

In this country for domestic installations they use water at a lot
higher temperature than normal central heating I think. Still could be
dangerous if a pipe bursts.


My example was for a system for large commercial downtown buildings.
Thus, those buildings did not each have to have their own boiler, with
associated chimneys, etc.

And your buildings need insulated pipes running everywhere.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 12:07:42 -0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 13/11/2022 12:48, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:

They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?

Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.

Yes. I stayed one time in council flats in Denmark. They had a community
furnace that burnt all the rubbish, heated all the flats and generated a
bit of electricity.

I think the Greens wanted them all shut down

Where I used to live (Dundee, Scotland) there was a furnace for burning rubbish. Never noticed the smell above the leaking gas from the gas storage towers.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 01:35:38 -0000, <hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 16:33:51 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/12/2022 2:42 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

If you have an unused swimming pool in the basement of your apartment
building, just throw in a small research reactor (100 kW to 1 MW) and
you have heating for the winter

I visited a swimming pool reactor on a field trip while in high
school. It was really something to stand on the side of this deep pool
of very clear water and see the glowing elements at the bottom, know
what it was causing the glow.

I\'m curious.

Do they have to add chemicals to the water, to keep it clear, no algae
or bacteria? Or simply the radiation keeps it \"clean\"?

I believe it included \"heavy water\". Probably as pure of water as you
could find in any case, which probably would not contain many nutrients
for anything to grow.

School trips to the swimming pool reactors were discontinued
many years ago - I\'m pretty sure that Bart and Homer
had something to do with it ..

Probably more to do with morons thinking it\'s dangerous to be next to one.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 14:57:13 -0000, Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

søndag den 13. november 2022 kl. 12.22.41 UTC+1 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
On 12/11/2022 22:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-12 22:48, Bob F wrote:
On 11/12/2022 12:06 PM, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 14:58:57 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
C...@nospam.com> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:02:03 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not....@all.invalid> wrote:

On 11/10/22 05:51, Max Demian wrote:

[snip]

I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas.
It\'s a waste.

Waste of what? If you heat with electricity heat is wasted in the
cooling towers of the power station .

and in transmission lines.

Power stations should be closer to houses.

If you have an unused swimming pool in the basement of your apartment
building, just throw in a small research reactor (100 kW to 1 MW) and
you have heating for the winter

I visited a swimming pool reactor on a field trip while in high
school. It was really something to stand on the side of this deep pool
of very clear water and see the glowing elements at the bottom, know
what it was causing the glow.

I\'m curious.

Do they have to add chemicals to the water, to keep it clear, no algae
or bacteria? Or simply the radiation keeps it \"clean\"?

It sounds like what he saw was a spent fuel pond.
The blue glow is Cherenkov radiation.
You can swim, but don\'t dive deep.

I don\'t think any bugs would survive it.
https://c7.alamy.com/comp/2BDXKCY/nuclear-waste-storage-pool-2BDXKCY.jpg

https://what-if.xkcd.com/29/

Which begs the question why do the bugs die?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 17:46:37 -0000, Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

mandag den 14. november 2022 kl. 17.51.21 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 16:25:24 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 14/11/2022 15:32, John Larkin wrote:
Consider a \"100% efficient\" gas or electric heater. A very hot element
warms room air.

But one could add a thermoelectric generator between the heat source
and the room air and get just as much hot air, but free electricity
too! Use that to make more heat.


No, you couldnt.

The energy from the electricity would subtract from the heat output of
the device.
That is equivalent to saying that heat pumps can\'t work.

heat pumps move heat

It\'s an impedance matching problem. It\'s inefficient to use a 1900C
gas flame to directly heat air to 25C.

inefficient how? A condensing gas boiler is ~95% efficient the exhaust is ~50\'C

Condensing boilers break down.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 17:30:36 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 17:00:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 14/11/2022 16:51, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 16:25:24 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 14/11/2022 15:32, John Larkin wrote:
Consider a \"100% efficient\" gas or electric heater. A very hot element
warms room air.

But one could add a thermoelectric generator between the heat source
and the room air and get just as much hot air, but free electricity
too! Use that to make more heat.


No, you couldnt.

The energy from the electricity would subtract from the heat output of
the device.

That is equivalent to saying that heat pumps can\'t work.

No it isnt.

It\'s an impedance matching problem. It\'s inefficient to use a 1900C
gas flame to directly heat air to 25C.

No, it isnt

California has mandated that future water heaters must be heat pumps.

California is full of morons affected presumably by the heat.

Hang on, they heat water in California?!

A heat pump can deliver a given amount of space heating or hot water
at about 1/3 the cost of direct gas or resistive electric heating.

Running cost maybe, but not purchase cost, those things cost a fortune and wear out.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 20:16:10 -0000, <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 01:02:35 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 00:41:33 -0000, Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

mandag den 14. november 2022 kl. 01.27.58 UTC+1 skrev Commander Kinsey:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.

Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.

I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.

I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.

The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.

A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.

Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?

the power station makes electricity not heat....

Is the heat to electricity section that inefficient?!

Yes, you can blame Mr Carnot for that .

For best mechanical (and electric) efficiency, you should have as much
temperature _difference_ between the hot and cold side (measured in
Kelvins) as possible.You should maximize the hot side temperature and
minimize the cold side temperature.

In a coal fired power station, you can have hit side temperatures over
550 C, but current nuclear plants only tolerate about
300 C.

Equally important is the cold side temperature, in cold climate near
the sea. you cold get about 0 C or 273 K, but in hot climate with air
cooling towers, the cold side temperature can be over 40 C,

Practical efficiencies for coal fired plants can be over 40 %, while
nuclear plants are above 30 %.

We could use giant internal combustion engines. 50% from a diesel.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 18:11:20 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:02:36 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 23:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.

A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.

Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?

Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot water output.

With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.


Guess why this is not massively used.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/california-injects-40m-into-heat-pump-water-heater-effort-amid-broader-pus/621869/

When are people going to stop this carbon shit? Where do they think the carbon used to be?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 19:07:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 15/11/2022 18:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 17:20:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Wow! Fucking Genius!

So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.

There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.

What are you dribbling on about?

Seeing if you can think. Seems not.

Bye.

*shrug* I don\'t need you to validate my engineering credentials.

FFS just have a mud wrestle will you?