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Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot water output.
For heating a house 60°C or less is good. For hot water, 45°C is enough.
For a power station, you need to boil the water at elevated pressures.
If. Do you trust your neighbour?
The electricity companies do their own checking.
On 11/11/2022 11:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No one cares about bacteria in their central heating primary circuit.
Unless the level gets high enough to clog things up.
But in the hot water circuit they can be really bad news.
At six months, I would be in trouble with the company, they would be
sending inspectors and asking the police.
On 08/11/2022 18:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 10:22:26 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 07/11/2022 21:51, David Wade wrote:
On 07/11/2022 18:07, Sam E wrote:
[snip]
They don\'t use those for heaters, only motors. Why would you
need it
for a resistive heater?
I have it on my heat pump.
Heat pumps are not resistive! That would defeat the whole purpose.
Heat pumps don\'t work well at very low temperatures. IIRC, the
emergency heat is normally resistive.
[snip]
Air-2-Air heat pumps loose efficiency below about 4C but modern ones
continue to provide some output down to -4c. None that I am aware of
have resistive heaters, but of course some folks will have separate
resistive heaters should the temp drop below -4.
IIRC all domestic heatpumps have resistive heaters, because its
necessary to bring DHW up to temp to kill germs.
What is DHW? And whatever it is, why can\'t the heatpump do it?
Domestic Hot Water. Heat pumps don\'t heat it to a very high temperature.
Probably enough for a bath or shower, but some are afraid of legionella
and what not. I don\'t know how much danger there is in domestic systems.
Of course it is.
Don\'t you know Doctor Zhivago was filmed here, with all that snow?
You can be without in areas of the south of Spain, but in winter
everybody needs something.
On 2022-11-11 13:40, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 11/11/2022 11:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No one cares about bacteria in their central heating primary circuit.
Unless the level gets high enough to clog things up.
But in the hot water circuit they can be really bad news.
And in the primary there can be leaks,
See when you\'re having trouble breathing, move.
Yeah, sure.
On 11/11/2022 11:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I checked. These stoves do not produce it, and the room has a little
forced ventilation anyway. Blue flame.
They come with a CO2 detector, though. If it triggers, the space is
not sufficiently ventilated, so the tiny amount of CO they might
produce does not build up.
https://www.leroymerlin.es/productos/calefaccion-y-climatizacion/estufas/estufas-de-gas/estufa-de-gas-de-llama-azul-equation-eco-de-4-2-kw-82273485.html
DOC: see page 5 (Spanish):
https://media.adeo.com/marketplace/LMES/82273485/2570508.pdf
No CO.
CO2 at a couple of percent might lead to shortage of breath, and be
pretty unpleasant.
40,000 ppm: This level is immediately harmful due to oxygen
deprivation.
For CO the World Health Organisation reckon less than 10ppm long term.
That\'s 10 parts per million.
But it\'s your life.
On 2022-11-10 22:58, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/11/2022 12:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don\'t have house heating. I heat a room at a time using a butane stove.
Carlos, I hope you have a CO detector? It doesn\'t take a lot to go wrong
with a portable stove to produce poison gas.
I checked. These stoves do not produce it,
On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/11/2022 12:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don\'t have house heating. I heat a room at a time using a butane
stove.
Carlos, I hope you have a CO detector? It doesn\'t take a lot to go wrong
with a portable stove to produce poison gas.
I have one in my head, it\'s called getting a headache. I don\'t waste
money on safety shit.
That\'s for CO2, fumes, and lack of O2, not abundance of CO.
\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message
news:22p14j-2u9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor...
On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/11/2022 12:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don\'t have house heating. I heat a room at a time using a butane
stove.
Carlos, I hope you have a CO detector? It doesn\'t take a lot to go wrong
with a portable stove to produce poison gas.
I have one in my head, it\'s called getting a headache. I don\'t waste
money on safety shit.
That\'s for CO2, fumes, and lack of O2, not abundance of CO.
CO will produce headache, nausea/vomiting and unconsciousness. Check for the
gums, fingernails and corners of eyes going cherry-red: that is caused by
carboxyhaemoglobin, in which the haemoglobin in the blood binds
preferentially with the CO, instead of the O2 which it is supposed to bind
with. Carb-haem is very bright red: much more so than with normal blood,
even oxygenated blood straight from the lungs before it has gone to the
organs/muscles.
CO2 tends to cause increased respiration because the body\'s natural reaction
is to try to breathe more in the hope of getting enough O2. It\'s why pure O2
(or O2+N2 with no CO2) in scuba breathing apparatus is a bad thing: the body
needs *some* CO2 to stimulate breathing.
To much CO2 will lead to
unconsciousness but as I understand it, it is not poisonous as such, so a
few breaths of normal air is enough to revive a person.
CO is much more
dangerous than CO2 because removal of CO and breathing of normal O2 will not
immediately make the haem give up the CO that is bound to it.
My parents had a scare about 20 years ago. They have a holiday cottage in
Yorkshire which is heated partly by a coke/wood stove. Some friends were
staying there and one of them woke up in the night feeling dizzy and sick.
Luckily she was a nurse and recognised CO poisoning so she got everyone out
and opened the windows. The stove flue had got partly blocked by a bird\'s
nest during the months that no-one was lighting fires. My parents felt very
guilty and bought several CO detectors. They have also had a cowl fitted
which prevents birds getting in and nesting.
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 13:32:17 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-12 11:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 10:34:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 11/11/2022 20:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-11 14:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Apparently people have died in their sleep from CO2 suddenly coming
from a nearby lake. I call bullshit.
Well, it is true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limnic_eruption
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster
Not only is it true, but i got close enough to it to realize how easy it
would be, when on a school visit to a brewery I put my head below the
rim of a fermentation tank to smell the brew and got a lungful of pure
CO2.
To breathe in and have it feel like you haven\'t, is extremely scary.
But you noticed the problem and moved to somewhere with less of it,
unlike the morons that died.
They couldn\'t. The entire valley was full with CO2, for miles.
Did you read the articles?
Pah, just breathe faster. Survival of the fittest.
On 2022-11-11 13:37, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 11/11/2022 11:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I checked. These stoves do not produce it, and the room has a little
forced ventilation anyway. Blue flame.
They come with a CO2 detector, though. If it triggers, the space is
not sufficiently ventilated, so the tiny amount of CO they might
produce does not build up.
https://www.leroymerlin.es/productos/calefaccion-y-climatizacion/estufas/estufas-de-gas/estufa-de-gas-de-llama-azul-equation-eco-de-4-2-kw-82273485.html
DOC: see page 5 (Spanish):
https://media.adeo.com/marketplace/LMES/82273485/2570508.pdf
No CO.
CO2 at a couple of percent might lead to shortage of breath, and be
pretty unpleasant.
Yep.
Can high CO2 cause headaches?
Moderate to high levels of carbon dioxide can cause headaches and
fatigue, and higher concentrations can produce nausea, dizziness, and
vomiting. Loss of consciousness can occur at extremely high
concentrations.Apr 1, 2016
On 11/11/2022 12:37, Vir Campestris wrote:
CO2 at a couple of percent might lead to shortage of breath, and be
pretty unpleasant.
I think in submarines the levels are routinely around 4-6%
CO2 simply suffocates you. I\'ve experienced that, briefly.
It\'s why pure O2 (or O2+N2 with no CO2) in scuba breathing apparatus is
a bad thing: the body needs *some* CO2 to stimulate breathing.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 19:43:02 -0000, Peter
HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
Actually, the symptoms of CO poisoning is highly dependent on the
concentration of CO in the inhaled air. Relatively low but dangerous
concentrations will usually produce a headache and/or nausea as one of
the first symptoms. But extremely high levels can produce loss of
consciousness as the first symptom.
So does being clouted over the head with an axe, but you tend to avoid it.
On 11/11/2022 11:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I checked. These stoves do not produce it, and the room has a little
forced ventilation anyway. Blue flame.
They come with a CO2 detector, though. If it triggers, the space is
not sufficiently ventilated, so the tiny amount of CO they might
produce does not build up.
https://www.leroymerlin.es/productos/calefaccion-y-climatizacion/estufas/estufas-de-gas/estufa-de-gas-de-llama-azul-equation-eco-de-4-2-kw-82273485.html
DOC: see page 5 (Spanish):
https://media.adeo.com/marketplace/LMES/82273485/2570508.pdf
No CO.
CO2 at a couple of percent might lead to shortage of breath, and be
pretty unpleasant.
For CO the World Health Organisation reckon less than 10ppm long term.
That\'s 10 parts per million.
But it\'s your life.
And its my headache too.
Not in the hot water CIRCUIT, but in the hot water TANK in an indirectlyOn 11/11/2022 11:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No one cares about bacteria in their central heating primary circuit.
Unless the level gets high enough to clog things up.
But in the hot water circuit they can be really bad news.
Andy
So does being clouted over the head with an axe, but you tend to avoid it.
There are well documented cases of inadvertent exposure to extremely
high concentrations of CO that caused serious illness and/or death.