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On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.
Waste of what? If you heat with electricity heat is wasted in the
cooling towers of the power station .
On 12/11/2022 13:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-12 11:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 10:34:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 11/11/2022 20:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-11 14:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 13:43:53 -0000, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message
news:22p14j-2u9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor...
On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
To much CO2 will lead to
unconsciousness but as I understand it, it is not poisonous as such,
so a
few breaths of normal air is enough to revive a person.
Apparently people have died in their sleep from CO2 suddenly coming
from a nearby lake. I call bullshit.
Well, it is true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limnic_eruption
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster
Not only is it true, but i got close enough to it to realize how easy it
would be, when on a school visit to a brewery I put my head below the
rim of a fermentation tank to smell the brew and got a lungful of
pure CO2.
To breathe in and have it feel like you haven\'t, is extremely scary.
But you noticed the problem and moved to somewhere with less of it,
unlike the morons that died.
They couldn\'t. The entire valley was full with CO2, for miles.
Did you read the articles?
*I* have and I can absolutely understand it. I wouldn\'t have lasted more
than 15 seconds in a pure CO2 atmosphere and I knew it.
Every year or so someone dies in a farm tank or fuel tank that hasn\'t
been ventilated.
On 09/11/2022 00:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:50:43 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 07/11/2022 23:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:46:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 06/11/2022 19:49, Bob F wrote:
On 11/6/2022 9:53 AM, Max Demian wrote:
Actually my fridge freezer might as well not have one as it rarely
turns off. Ice forms inside the fridge part and you can just about
freeze vodka in an ice cube tray so it must be about -25C.
Have you considered adjusting it?
It\'s set to 1, which is next to off, so I assume that\'s the minimum
refrigeration.
Sounds like the thermostat is fucked, will your landlord replace it?
I don\'t know as it does still work as an FF. I\'m not too bothered with
it as it is.
\"Ice forms in the fridge part\". Refrigerated food is damaged when
frozen. It\'s not fit for purpose.
It doesn\'t freeze the food, even milk. The ice is on the back of the
fridge part. There is a drain to get rid of water condensed there but it
freezes instead.
On 11/10/22 05:51, Max Demian wrote:
[snip]
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas.
It\'s a waste.
Waste of what? If you heat with electricity heat is wasted in the
cooling towers of the power station .
and in transmission lines.
On 2022-11-12 17:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 20:20:31 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-11 15:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/11/2022 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-11 13:40, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 11/11/2022 11:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No one cares about bacteria in their central heating primary circuit.
Unless the level gets high enough to clog things up.
But in the hot water circuit they can be really bad news.
And in the primary there can be leaks, and happen in your kids bedroom.
I think anyone who doesn\'t fix a primary leak will soon have a
depressurised inoperative boiler
Normally.
Maybe that someone refills the circuit, not knowing where the slow leak
is. Happened to me.
Amazing people still heat their houses using water.
Pure physics. Not amazing at all.
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 20:43:02 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-06 20:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 18:20:18 -0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 17:13:16 +0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 06/11/2022 15:10, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 09:43:37 -0000, <Wanderer@noplace.com> wrote:
Sure, but we would need to replace all electrical devices by the their
Thevenin Equivalent.
Seriously, All electrical device need to use a certain amount of
power. We often convert the mains voltages and currents to other
voltages and currents that devices can consume. There are probably
some power supplies that could use the lower voltages and frequencies
and get the same power. Some motors and clocks may run slower but some
would not work at all. If we still had incandescent light bulbs they
would be dimmer, the reason for the old term \'brown out\'. Most modern
devices would not work and might even be damaged.
So No.
A device getting damaged by not enough power is screaming of bad
design.
Not necessarily. We have a \"guaranteed\" minimum and maximum supply
voltage. Why should a company spend extra designing and installing
protection against supplies (not temporary aberrations) outside them?
Yes, all sorts of issues if a power company messes around with the
voltage and frequency. If a consumer wants to attempt saving money in
this way then the obvious thing to try would be a variac. It won\'t
change the frequency but does enable one to reduce the supply voltage
easily to whatever device you wish to reduce the power to.
Not the same thing at all. If you want to reduce usage, you turn things
down or off. If the whole country wants to do that over a short period
due to high demand, they can\'t very well phone everyone up and tell you
to delay your coffee for half an hour, they have to lower the voltage.
There is a type of electricity contract in which you accept the provider
will remotely switch off your heavy appliances to reduce power overall
for some time. In exchange, you pay less.
Is this available in the UK?
On 10/11/2022 12:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-10 13:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:
\"Ice forms in the fridge part\". Refrigerated food is damaged when
frozen. It\'s not fit for purpose.
It doesn\'t freeze the food, even milk. The ice is on the back of the
fridge part. There is a drain to get rid of water condensed there but
it freezes instead.
This happens when the fridge can not cope with the load.
It can be the fridge is simply a bad design. The evaporator or cold
surface is too small. It can be that the door is opened too many
times. That the door doesn\'t close tight. Summer (or house heating to
high). Whatever.
No, it\'s because the thermostat is faulty or badly calibrated. Every few
days the compressor *might* turn off, usually for about three hours. I
can live with it.
On 11/11/2022 14:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/11/2022 12:40, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 11/11/2022 11:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No one cares about bacteria in their central heating primary circuit.
Unless the level gets high enough to clog things up.
But in the hot water circuit they can be really bad news.
Andy
Not in the hot water CIRCUIT, but in the hot water TANK in an indirectly
heated system
My typo. Oh well, you knew what I meant!
On 2022-11-12 15:51, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:11:53 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-10 02:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:01:19 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
As I said, this is a modern country. Basically the whole of Spain is
using smart meters, changed maybe ten years ago. And I saw nothing in
media about them being faulty.
They\'re (form your point of view) pointless, and a possible source of
spying and control. Why would you be happy with this? They can turn
off your power at will!
Well, as I said, I no longer have to bother to open the door for the
meter man.
You don\'t anyway, what was he going to do if you were out?
Put a paper card in the mailbox for me to read the meter and mail to them.
If I don\'t, they charge me all the same, with an estimation that is
higher than reality.
Anyway, my meter is read about once every 5 years.
They really work well, no problems detected, AFAIK.
Have you measured it? Switch off everything in your house, and use all
your LED lighting at once. Add up what they should be using, and see
what the meter thinks. There have been reports LED lighting is measured
at up to 5 times what it really is.
It is the same power as it was before, with the mechanical meter, or less.
There was no alternative. It was smart meter, or mandatory cut off.
Vote them out.
LOL.
The others would also mandate smart meters.
Depends. Do you have 3 phase motors?
In my country house I currently have only one pump, which require
three phases.
That can be done with single phase power and a three phase inverter
(single phase input, three phase output). I don\'t know the current price
of that, though.
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:02:03 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid
wrote:
On 11/10/22 05:51, Max Demian wrote:
[snip]
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas.
It\'s a waste.
Waste of what? If you heat with electricity heat is wasted in the
cooling towers of the power station .
and in transmission lines.
Power stations should be closer to houses.
On 2022-11-12 15:49, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:42:09 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-10 11:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/11/2022 10:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-10 02:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:01:19 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
As I said, this is a modern country. Basically the whole of Spain is
using smart meters, changed maybe ten years ago. And I saw nothing in
media about them being faulty.
They\'re (form your point of view) pointless, and a possible source of
spying and control. Why would you be happy with this? They can turn
off your power at will!
Well, as I said, I no longer have to bother to open the door for the
meter man.
They really work well, no problems detected, AFAIK.
There was no alternative. It was smart meter, or mandatory cut off.
They work really well here too. People are finding their smart meters
have moved them onto more expensive tarriffs without their knowledge.
That doesn\'t happen here. Someone called and the client said \"yes\".
And their true use - to cut people off when the load is too high - seems
to be being revealed
No revelation here, we knew.
Their first step was to mandatorily insert a current limiter at the
entry box, with a lead seal for not tampering. But people tampered it,
with a \"jumper\". So the next move was smart meter with current limiter
included. End of customer fraud.
Digital things can be hacked.
If found one goes to prison.
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 15:38:55 -0000, Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/11/2022 15:07, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 14:54:16 +0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/11/2022 14:16, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:24:41 +0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/11/2022 05:30, John Larkin wrote:
Gas wells feeding pipelines to users doesn\'t need a lot of storage.
UK has been a net importer of overseas gas since 2004! We don\'t import
very much from Russia <4% but we get a hell of a lot from Norway.
https://oeuk.org.uk/norway-is-now-uks-primary-gas-supplier-and-declining-north-sea-output-means-uk-faces-importing-80-of-its-gas-and-oil-within-a-decade-warns-oeuk-report/
We absolutely *DO* need bulk storage - especially since so much of our
winter electricity is generated from burning the stuff! A majority of UK
homes are also heated by gas boilers so it is a double whammy.
The days of dirt cheap and plentiful North Sea gas are long gone.
Frack.
UK geology is sufficiently complicated that even the fracking experts
think it is a lost cause (and that is before the Nimby\'s get started).
https://www.nationalworld.com/news/environment/cuadrilla-founder-fracking-uk-tory-mps-3852533
There are not many places in the UK where fracking will work and many of
them are right in the middle of heavily populated northern cities.
www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2015/07/02/why-britain-doesnt-frack
One Tory politician famously said in parliament that we (that is the UK)
should \"Frack the desolate North\". s/ra/u an you won\'t be too far out.
What language are you speaking in that last sentence?
On 11/12/2022 11:53 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 19:43:02 -0000, Peter
HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
Actually, the symptoms of CO poisoning is highly dependent on the
concentration of CO in the inhaled air. Relatively low but dangerous
concentrations will usually produce a headache and/or nausea as one of
the first symptoms. But extremely high levels can produce loss of
consciousness as the first symptom.
So does being clouted over the head with an axe, but you tend to avoid it.
There are well documented cases of inadvertent exposure to extremely
high concentrations of CO that caused serious illness and/or death. Two
examples are (1) a malfunctioning Zamboni at an ice rink
and (2) an
improperly recently serviced or installed gas appliance (dryer, water
heater, kitchen stove or oven, or furnace) in the absence of a
functional CO detector.
Before you go to a hockey game or a figure
skating exhibition or competition how do you determine that the facility
has properly maintained their Zamboni and has very recently tested their
CO detector? If you are a dinner guest in someone\'s home, do you always
inquire upon arrival whether or not they had a gas appliance installed
or serviced that same day and have a recently tested CO detector? If
not, what\'s your strategy for avoiding those potentially
life-threatening environments?
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 17:43:32 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 11/11/2022 13:16, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 11:19:09 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 18:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:
What is DHW? And whatever it is, why can\'t the heatpump do it?
Domestic Hot Water. Heat pumps don\'t heat it to a very high
temperature.
Probably enough for a bath or shower, but some are afraid of legionella
and what not. I don\'t know how much danger there is in domestic
systems.
I don\'t have hot water. The shower is electric and so are the washing
machine and dishwasher.
What about hand washing
Why would that need hot water? I\'ve always used the cold tap, even when
a hot one is available. Why wait for the heat to get through the pipe?
Soap dissolves at any temperature.
On 12/11/2022 14:58, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:02:03 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid
wrote:
On 11/10/22 05:51, Max Demian wrote:
[snip]
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas.
It\'s a waste.
Waste of what? If you heat with electricity heat is wasted in the
cooling towers of the power station .
and in transmission lines.
Power stations should be closer to houses.
Do you want to live in the shadow of a power station?
On 2022-11-08 15:54, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/11/2022 14:16, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:24:41 +0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
We absolutely *DO* need bulk storage - especially since so much of our
winter electricity is generated from burning the stuff! A majority of
UK homes are also heated by gas boilers so it is a double whammy.
The days of dirt cheap and plentiful North Sea gas are long gone.
What happened to it, is it spent already?
Yes.
On 2022-11-08 15:54, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/11/2022 14:16, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:24:41 +0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
We absolutely *DO* need bulk storage - especially since so much of our
winter electricity is generated from burning the stuff! A majority of
UK homes are also heated by gas boilers so it is a double whammy.
The days of dirt cheap and plentiful North Sea gas are long gone.
What happened to it, is it spent already?
Do you want to live in the shadow of a power station? Miles from shops
&c. as are most power stations?