Mains power voltage drop to reduce usage?...

[Peeler]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 11:51:53 +0000, Max Dumb, the REAL dumb, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered again:

> Waste of what?

BOTH of you are waste ...useless shitheaded cretins!

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:10:35 -0000, Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co..uk> wrote:

On 10/11/2022 08:35, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 08:30:23 -0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

What is happening a lot at the moment is that UK energy suppliers are
switching people with smart meters who are in payment arrears into a
PAYG mode where they get cut off immediately and then have to buy energy
credits at a usurious rate for cash instead.

It\'s so funny, a debt to an electricity company has no collateral. You
could run up a debt of £50,000, then just not pay. They can\'t legally
cut you off!

Why don\'t you try it then? I can assure that they will as a last resort
cut you off supply if your account is in serious arrears.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/problems-with-your-energy-supply/if-youve-been-told-your-energy-supply-will-be-disconnected/

Normally they insist on a PAYG meter installation but they certainly
will cut you off if you are sufficiently recalcitrant or stupid.

No, they are not legally allowed to cut off your electricity, since you would have no fridge which is a human right.

They once tried to cut our village hall off - as in guys with bolt
cutters and a court order at the door for non-payment of a bill. Part of
the problem was they had been serving their notices on a building with
no postal address or post box.

They didn\'t notice the letters were returned as \"no such address\"?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:46:15 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 23:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 12:43:05 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 03:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 20:00:51 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-12 15:49, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:42:09 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-10 11:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/11/2022 10:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-10 02:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:01:19 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


As I said, this is a modern country. Basically the whole of
Spain is
using smart meters, changed maybe ten years ago. And I saw
nothing in
media about them being faulty.

They\'re (form your point of view) pointless, and a possible
source of
spying and control. Why would you be happy with this? They can
turn
off your power at will!

Well, as I said, I no longer have to bother to open the door for
the
meter man.

They really work well, no problems detected, AFAIK.

There was no alternative. It was smart meter, or mandatory cut off.


They work really well here too. People are finding their smart
meters
have moved them onto more expensive tarriffs without their
knowledge.

That doesn\'t happen here. Someone called and the client said \"yes\".

And their true use - to cut people off when the load is too high -
seems
to be being revealed

No revelation here, we knew.

Their first step was to mandatorily insert a current limiter at the
entry box, with a lead seal for not tampering. But people tampered
it,
with a \"jumper\". So the next move was smart meter with current
limiter
included. End of customer fraud.

Digital things can be hacked.

If found one goes to prison.

If. Do you trust your neighbour?

The electricity companies do their own checking.

And you trust the justice system? Let\'s say you and your neighbour have
a dispute over something. Your neighbour sneaks over to your house in
the middle of the night and does something to your meter which acts in
your favour (or in the case of a smart meter he could do it remotely).
The electricity board and the court will probably say you\'re stealing
electricity. At least with the old meters you could have a security
camera.

If... if... if... all your ranting is useless and pointless here. Here,
you either have a smart meter, or no electricity. You can get mad at
them all you want. Argue all you want. Pointless, it is done and forgotten.

Can\'t you take to the streets and yell like the French?

 

[Peeler]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 +0000, SteveWanker, another troll-feeding
senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.

Consider the troll\'s efficiency in trolling in these groups! A few simple
utterly idiotic baits set out by him ...and all you miserable senile
shitheads gladly and thankfully come hopping along to feed him quickly,
TIME and AGAIN, though it\'s obvious by now what\'s the matteer with the
attention-starved wanker. IOW, you senile airheads are MORE miserable than
the clinically insane troll who keeps trolling you! LOL

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:47:36 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 22:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 15:49:59 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 14:51:23 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:11:53 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-10 02:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:01:19 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


As I said, this is a modern country. Basically the whole of Spain is
using smart meters, changed maybe ten years ago. And I saw nothing in
media about them being faulty.

They\'re (form your point of view) pointless, and a possible source of
spying and control. Why would you be happy with this? They can turn
off your power at will!

Well, as I said, I no longer have to bother to open the door for the
meter man.

You don\'t anyway, what was he going to do if you were out?

Anyway, my meter is read about once every 5 years.

Water used to be unmetered at our cabin, but then they installed smart
meters. I got an email from TDPUD that they suspected a leak, based on
the usage pattern. They sent me graphs and we saw a constant low-level
flow when nobody was there. It was a leaking shutoff+drain valve.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lnq4lzds3ku5nko/Truckee_Leak.jpg?raw=1

The big plateau was the leak.

Realtime metering catches stuff like that.

Leaking water I don\'t care about, it\'s free, if it\'s big enough I see
water.

Not free here,

What an absurd place to choose to live.

> and sometimes you do not see it.

If you do not see it then it isn\'t very big.

Leaking gas I smell.

Sometimes. Some thought like you, now they are dead.

Then they must have had a poor sense of smell. I smelt mine when I didn\'t do up a connection very well under the floor.

>> Shorting electricity I smell.

Both, well never mind.

 

[Peeler]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:38 +0000, Max Dumb, the REAL dumb, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered again:

It doesn\'t freeze the food, even milk. The ice is on the back of the
fridge part. There is a drain to get rid of water condensed there but it
freezes instead.

And now say \"thank you\" to the troll for allowing you to feed him yet again,
you miserable troll-feeding senile idiot!

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:48:15 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 22:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 12:48:48 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 03:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 10:43:50 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 12/11/2022 13:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-12 11:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 10:34:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/11/2022 20:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-11 14:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 13:43:53 -0000, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message
news:22p14j-2u9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor...
On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:


To much CO2 will lead to
unconsciousness but as I understand it, it is not poisonous as
such,
so a
few breaths of normal air is enough to revive a person.

Apparently people have died in their sleep from CO2 suddenly
coming
from a nearby lake. I call bullshit.

Well, it is true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limnic_eruption
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster

Not only is it true, but i got close enough to it to realize how
easy it
would be, when on a school visit to a brewery I put my head below
the
rim of a fermentation tank to smell the brew and got a lungful of
pure CO2.

To breathe in and have it feel like you haven\'t, is extremely scary.

But you noticed the problem and moved to somewhere with less of it,
unlike the morons that died.

They couldn\'t. The entire valley was full with CO2, for miles.

Did you read the articles?


*I* have and I can absolutely understand it. I wouldn\'t have lasted
more
than 15 seconds in a pure CO2 atmosphere and I knew it.

Every year or so someone dies in a farm tank or fuel tank that hasn\'t
been ventilated.

See when you\'re having trouble breathing, move.

Yeah, sure.

Some of us have brains.

But not you

Well I\'ve managed to never remain in a dangerous position.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:17:49 -0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 10/11/2022 09:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/11/2022 21:52, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 09.11.22 21:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 07:07:54 -0000, <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:

On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:03:08 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Depends. Do you have 3 phase motors?

In my country house I currently have only one pump, which require
three phases.

That can be done with single phase power and a three phase inverter
(single phase input, three phase output). I don\'t know the current
price
of that, though.

Typically the single phase 230 V input inverter has 127/220 V three
phase output. The 230/400 V motors are much more common.

The other alterative is to use 3 capacitors to generate the phases
from single phase,, but the output power is severely reduced.

Is it possible to use a special transformer to shift the phase? So
you take a single phase and lag it a bit? Do that twice over, then
you have three phases cheaply.

120 degrees phase difference between the the phases.
quite a bit more than a \"bit\".

It cannot be done more easily than rectifying to DC and constructing a 3
phase *inverter*.

Finding cheap second-hand parts and building a rotary converter is one
easy DIY option.

However, inverters are pretty cheap these days and there is frequently
the option of just changing the motor. It was easier and cheaper 40
years ago to change the motors on my father\'s lathe, pillar drill and
jig borer, than it was to provide 3-phase to them.

You could always ask your two next door neighbours to supply you with an extension lead. Then you\'d have 3 phases.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 09:04:16 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 22:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 12:38:59 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.

A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.

Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?

Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot water output.
For heating a house 60°C or less is good. For hot water, 45°C is enough.
For a power station, you need to boil the water at elevated pressures.

There must be some kind of heat exchanger system they could use. Or
another use for the warm gases. Heat the neighbouring village with
steam or water?

Well, this is already done.

Have a thermal engine generator generate electricity, and use the
exhaust gases to heat the area.

I guess what we need is something better than a thermal engine.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 11:37:48 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-16 06:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 12:46:08 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-14 03:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 20:04:42 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Anyway, my meter is read about once every 5 years.

They really work well, no problems detected, AFAIK.

Have you measured it? Switch off everything in your house, and use
all
your LED lighting at once. Add up what they should be using, and see
what the meter thinks. There have been reports LED lighting is
measured
at up to 5 times what it really is.

It is the same power as it was before, with the mechanical meter, or
less.

Maybe they fixed it after the big farce. And of course there\'s still
this:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/smart-meter-warning-thousands-customers-28458788

Maybe there never was such a problem in Spain. We did things right from
the start.

There was never any need for smart meters. What a waste (economically
and environmentally) making all that new equipment.


Obviously the people that held the purses did not think like you, thus
you are mistaken.

That\'s not why they made them. It\'s environmental bullshit to encourage us to use less power. How ridiculous, we use what we want or need to, until the bill is too high, then we use less. Seeing it in realtime is pointless.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:42:51 -0000, <hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:26:12 -0000, \"NY\" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

\"Cindy Hamilton\" <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:uO6bL.44897$TUR8.5171@fx17.iad...
Similar for forced-air gas furnaces, which are the most common
type of heating in the U.S (60% of American homes). Mine is
above 90%.

Do you find that forced (ducted) air central heating actually keeps the
house warm? I suppose it must work, or 60% of American homes wouldn\'t use
it!

My parents bought a brand new house in the early 1970s (so 1970s technology
(*), admittedly!) which had gas-fired ducted-air central heating. And the
house was never really warm, especially at the remote end of the ducts,
where you got a feeble waft of tepid air. Even the ducts right next to the
boiler/furnace gave out tepid air, even if there was more of it. And the
house was very dusty because the constant draught kept dust circulating in
the air. Our neighbours replaced their CH system with radiators when the
boiler needed replacing twenty years later, rather than going for another
ducted-air boiler. They said to us \"at last the house is warm\".

At least our ducted-air system was fairly quiet. When we were looking for a
house a couple of years ago, we looked round one with a heat-pump/ducted-air
system which emitted a constant moaning whining noise throughout the whole
house - you couldn\'t escape from the infernal whining.


(*) The boiler was massive: about the depth and width of a typical fridge,
but about 7 feet high - a floor-to-ceiling cabinet. The only room in the
house that was really warm was the downstairs toilet which had the boiler in
it, which suggests that a lot of the heat from the burning of the gas was
wasted to the room rather than going into the ducted air.


One shouldn\'t judge the _type_ of system
- by problems experienced with any individual installation -
.. shoddy workmanship abounds.
Retro-fits and renovations will often have some hidden
work-arounds and cut-corners ..

You can\'t around the fact it moves air around.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:42:51 -0000, <hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:26:12 -0000, \"NY\" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

\"Cindy Hamilton\" <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:uO6bL.44897$TUR8.5171@fx17.iad...
Similar for forced-air gas furnaces, which are the most common
type of heating in the U.S (60% of American homes). Mine is
above 90%.

Do you find that forced (ducted) air central heating actually keeps the
house warm? I suppose it must work, or 60% of American homes wouldn\'t use
it!

My parents bought a brand new house in the early 1970s (so 1970s technology
(*), admittedly!) which had gas-fired ducted-air central heating. And the
house was never really warm, especially at the remote end of the ducts,
where you got a feeble waft of tepid air. Even the ducts right next to the
boiler/furnace gave out tepid air, even if there was more of it. And the
house was very dusty because the constant draught kept dust circulating in
the air. Our neighbours replaced their CH system with radiators when the
boiler needed replacing twenty years later, rather than going for another
ducted-air boiler. They said to us \"at last the house is warm\".

At least our ducted-air system was fairly quiet. When we were looking for a
house a couple of years ago, we looked round one with a heat-pump/ducted-air
system which emitted a constant moaning whining noise throughout the whole
house - you couldn\'t escape from the infernal whining.


(*) The boiler was massive: about the depth and width of a typical fridge,
but about 7 feet high - a floor-to-ceiling cabinet. The only room in the
house that was really warm was the downstairs toilet which had the boiler in
it, which suggests that a lot of the heat from the burning of the gas was
wasted to the room rather than going into the ducted air.


One shouldn\'t judge the _type_ of system
- by problems experienced with any individual installation -
.. shoddy workmanship abounds.
Retro-fits and renovations will often have some hidden
work-arounds and cut-corners ..

You can\'t around the fact it moves air around.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:53:23 -0000, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

On 2022-11-10, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
\"Cindy Hamilton\" <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:uO6bL.44897$TUR8.5171@fx17.iad...
Similar for forced-air gas furnaces, which are the most common
type of heating in the U.S (60% of American homes). Mine is
above 90%.

Do you find that forced (ducted) air central heating actually keeps the
house warm? I suppose it must work, or 60% of American homes wouldn\'t use
it!

Yes, I do. It keeps the house at a comfy 71 F (that\'s about 21.7 C).

That\'s tropical. Is someone in your house ill?

> The filters in the return-air plenum clean the air.

Irrelevant, the air is still moving about causing draughts which presumably cool you a little, and disturb dust.

The furnace is
about 20 years old and it\'s still performing beautifully. It is
installed in the basement;

Why don\'t UK houses have basements? We\'re wasting so much space. And we have less space on this tiny little island.

not all the ducts there are insulated,
yet enough warm air makes it throughout our single-story house to
warm even the farthest rooms.

Furthest. Do you also say farther away? That sounds like you\'re telling your dad to go away.

Last year we spent about $70 on heating in February. I expect it
might be a bit more this year.

It also affords us an opportunity for central air-conditioning, for
the hot and humid days of summer.

I just have a heat pump in one room and leave the doors open to any room I want heated or cooled.

My parents bought a brand new house in the early 1970s (so 1970s technology
(*), admittedly!) which had gas-fired ducted-air central heating. And the
house was never really warm, especially at the remote end of the ducts,
where you got a feeble waft of tepid air. Even the ducts right next to the
boiler/furnace gave out tepid air, even if there was more of it. And the
house was very dusty because the constant draught kept dust circulating in
the air. Our neighbours replaced their CH system with radiators when the
boiler needed replacing twenty years later, rather than going for another
ducted-air boiler. They said to us \"at last the house is warm\".

At least our ducted-air system was fairly quiet. When we were looking for a
house a couple of years ago, we looked round one with a heat-pump/ducted-air
system which emitted a constant moaning whining noise throughout the whole
house - you couldn\'t escape from the infernal whining.


(*) The boiler was massive: about the depth and width of a typical fridge,
but about 7 feet high - a floor-to-ceiling cabinet. The only room in the
house that was really warm was the downstairs toilet which had the boiler in
it, which suggests that a lot of the heat from the burning of the gas was
wasted to the room rather than going into the ducted air.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 17:43:32 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 11/11/2022 13:16, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 11:19:09 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 08/11/2022 18:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 10:22:26 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 07/11/2022 21:51, David Wade wrote:
On 07/11/2022 18:07, Sam E wrote:

[snip]

They don\'t use those for heaters, only motors. Why would you
need it
for a resistive heater?

I have it on my heat pump.

Heat pumps are not resistive! That would defeat the whole purpose.

Heat pumps don\'t work well at very low temperatures. IIRC, the
emergency heat is normally resistive.

[snip]

Air-2-Air heat pumps loose efficiency below about 4C but modern ones
continue to provide some output down to -4c. None that I am aware of
have resistive heaters, but of course some folks will have separate
resistive heaters should the temp drop below -4.

IIRC all domestic heatpumps have resistive heaters, because its
necessary to bring DHW up to temp to kill germs.

What is DHW? And whatever it is, why can\'t the heatpump do it?

Domestic Hot Water. Heat pumps don\'t heat it to a very high temperature.
Probably enough for a bath or shower, but some are afraid of legionella
and what not. I don\'t know how much danger there is in domestic systems.

I don\'t have hot water. The shower is electric and so are the washing
machine and dishwasher.

What about hand washing

Why would that need hot water? I\'ve always used the cold tap, even when a hot one is available. Why wait for the heat to get through the pipe? Soap dissolves at any temperature.

> and manual washing up?

And what?!? Why would I do that in the 21st century?

> Do you have instant heaters for the sink/basin(s)?

No.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:53:23 -0000, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

On 2022-11-10, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
\"Cindy Hamilton\" <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:uO6bL.44897$TUR8.5171@fx17.iad...
Similar for forced-air gas furnaces, which are the most common
type of heating in the U.S (60% of American homes). Mine is
above 90%.

Do you find that forced (ducted) air central heating actually keeps the
house warm? I suppose it must work, or 60% of American homes wouldn\'t use
it!

Yes, I do. It keeps the house at a comfy 71 F (that\'s about 21.7 C).

That\'s tropical. Is someone in your house ill?

> The filters in the return-air plenum clean the air.

Irrelevant, the air is still moving about causing draughts which presumably cool you a little, and disturb dust.

The furnace is
about 20 years old and it\'s still performing beautifully. It is
installed in the basement;

Why don\'t UK houses have basements? We\'re wasting so much space. And we have less space on this tiny little island.

not all the ducts there are insulated,
yet enough warm air makes it throughout our single-story house to
warm even the farthest rooms.

Furthest. Do you also say farther away? That sounds like you\'re telling your dad to go away.

Last year we spent about $70 on heating in February. I expect it
might be a bit more this year.

It also affords us an opportunity for central air-conditioning, for
the hot and humid days of summer.

I just have a heat pump in one room and leave the doors open to any room I want heated or cooled.

My parents bought a brand new house in the early 1970s (so 1970s technology
(*), admittedly!) which had gas-fired ducted-air central heating. And the
house was never really warm, especially at the remote end of the ducts,
where you got a feeble waft of tepid air. Even the ducts right next to the
boiler/furnace gave out tepid air, even if there was more of it. And the
house was very dusty because the constant draught kept dust circulating in
the air. Our neighbours replaced their CH system with radiators when the
boiler needed replacing twenty years later, rather than going for another
ducted-air boiler. They said to us \"at last the house is warm\".

At least our ducted-air system was fairly quiet. When we were looking for a
house a couple of years ago, we looked round one with a heat-pump/ducted-air
system which emitted a constant moaning whining noise throughout the whole
house - you couldn\'t escape from the infernal whining.


(*) The boiler was massive: about the depth and width of a typical fridge,
but about 7 feet high - a floor-to-ceiling cabinet. The only room in the
house that was really warm was the downstairs toilet which had the boiler in
it, which suggests that a lot of the heat from the burning of the gas was
wasted to the room rather than going into the ducted air.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.

Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.

I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.

I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.

The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient..
Then there are 5% transmission losses.

A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.

Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?

> Even with a heat pump (annual average 2.5 to 3 COP),

Ahhhhh, someone who uses proper sensible measurements. It\'s so annoying buying those when you get crazy numbers from American companies quiting 18 efficiency. COP is simple, divide the output by the input.

it is cheaper to
use gas, that costs 1/3 the price of electricity - and has the advantage
that a boiler is far cheaper to replace if it fails than a heat pump,

Actually I bought a heat pump for £430. The cheapest boiler I could find was £500. And the heat pump doesn\'t need radiators.

The old boilers without combi or condensing lasted for ages, mine lasted for over 20 years (without a single service) and it was still going strong when I removed it. Only ever had to replace a £7.50 pilot light sensor, which I obviously did myself). But the new ones, probably 5 years.

plus it can far more effectively heat a house cyclicly, rather than
using lower level heat almost continuously

Nonsense, mine turns on and off just fine.

> (even when people are not there)

Why would you run it when you\'re not there?

> and it doesn\'t require water storage.

Neither does mine as I don\'t need hot water. The shower, dishwasher, and washing machine heat their own water.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.

Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.

I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.

I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.

The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62% efficient..
Then there are 5% transmission losses.

A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.

Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?

> Even with a heat pump (annual average 2.5 to 3 COP),

Ahhhhh, someone who uses proper sensible measurements. It\'s so annoying buying those when you get crazy numbers from American companies quiting 18 efficiency. COP is simple, divide the output by the input.

it is cheaper to
use gas, that costs 1/3 the price of electricity - and has the advantage
that a boiler is far cheaper to replace if it fails than a heat pump,

Actually I bought a heat pump for £430. The cheapest boiler I could find was £500. And the heat pump doesn\'t need radiators.

The old boilers without combi or condensing lasted for ages, mine lasted for over 20 years (without a single service) and it was still going strong when I removed it. Only ever had to replace a £7.50 pilot light sensor, which I obviously did myself). But the new ones, probably 5 years.

plus it can far more effectively heat a house cyclicly, rather than
using lower level heat almost continuously

Nonsense, mine turns on and off just fine.

> (even when people are not there)

Why would you run it when you\'re not there?

> and it doesn\'t require water storage.

Neither does mine as I don\'t need hot water. The shower, dishwasher, and washing machine heat their own water.

 

[Max Demian]

On 10/11/2022 12:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2022-11-10 13:07, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:21, Commander Kinsey wrote:

\"Ice forms in the fridge part\".  Refrigerated food is damaged when
frozen.  It\'s not fit for purpose.

It doesn\'t freeze the food, even milk. The ice is on the back of the
fridge part. There is a drain to get rid of water condensed there but
it freezes instead.

This happens when the fridge can not cope with the load.

It can be the fridge is simply a bad design. The evaporator or cold
surface is too small. It can be that the door is opened too many times.
That the door doesn\'t close tight. Summer (or house heating to high).
Whatever.

No, it\'s because the thermostat is faulty or badly calibrated. Every few
days the compressor *might* turn off, usually for about three hours. I
can live with it.

--
Max Demian

 

[DemonicTubes]

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:32:57 AM UTC-7, Peeler wrote:

IOW, you senile airheads are MORE miserable than
the clinically insane troll who keeps trolling you! LOL

It is pretty clear to all who the insane one is.

Just read your last 100+ posts...a psychoanalyst could have a field day with that content.

There is a reason you are being ignored.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2022-11-12 11:59, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 10:34:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/11/2022 20:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-11 14:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 13:43:53 -0000, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message
news:22p14j-2u9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor...
On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:


To much CO2 will lead to
unconsciousness but as I understand it, it is not poisonous as such,
so a
few breaths of normal air is enough to revive a person.

Apparently people have died in their sleep from CO2 suddenly coming
from a nearby lake.  I call bullshit.

Well, it is true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limnic_eruption
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster

Not only is it true, but i got close enough to it to realize how easy it
would be, when on a school visit to a brewery I put my head below the
rim of a fermentation tank to smell the brew and got a lungful of pure
CO2.

To breathe in and have it feel like you haven\'t, is extremely scary.

But you noticed the problem and moved to somewhere with less of it,
unlike the morons that died.

They couldn\'t. The entire valley was full with CO2, for miles.

Did you read the articles?



--
Cheers, Carlos.