Is Anyone in Charge of the Response to COVID-19?

[mpm]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 3:32:09 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

> Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while.

Pigs have an incredible sense of smell. (About 2000x that of a human.)
They probably do not need to see the acorn.

And "truffles" would have made for a better constructed metaphor.
But I believe you meant "squirrel", and just didn't know how to spell it.

OK, I'm just messing with you again.
It's early, haven't had any coffee yet, and I'm still trying to decide whether pigs are actually even interested in acorns. I suspect not, but then I'm a city-boy.

 

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
news:2cqh7fh72aptcjb6cb5ovr8ltb8dshafmd@4ax.com:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 03:27:22 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 17:27:53 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:34:51 PM UTC-4,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special
about this one?

Even Trump now admits it's very different. So, he's lying
again?

It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog
eat your homework?

It's more like I love Lucy. "If you don't know, I'm not going to
tell you."


OK, you can't answer it either.

If you didn't get that, we're not going to tell you.

 

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 03:27:22 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
<fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 17:27:53 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:34:51 PM UTC-4,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about
this one?

Even Trump now admits it's very different. So, he's lying again?

It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

It's more like I love Lucy. "If you don't know, I'm not going to tell
you."

OK, you can't answer it either.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Robert Baer]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 19:17:28 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?
It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

We are still early in the Covid-19 season (as compared to the flu); so, hard to see the effect for some people.

Covid-19 is 2x to 3x more infectious (especially those without symptoms) as the flu, 20x to 50x more deadly, live outside hosts for days and air-borne (WHO is now confirming this).

The Diamond Princess cruise petri dish, visible from our kitchen
window, was about as bad a disease environment as you can get. Less
than 20 per cent of people on board caught the virus. About half of
those had no symptoms. 7 people died out of 3700 passengers, all of
them over 70.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Epidemiology

Look at the chart halfway down. Why didn't those killers deserve 24/7
press and lockdowns?

The CDC was one of the first sources to let the public know that the
COVID-19 virus is primarily spread via person-to-person contact, mainly
through sneezes and coughs.

Another possible way of becoming infected is by coming into contact
with a surface that has COVID-19 on it. When someone wipes their nose,
sneezes, or coughs into their hand and touches a surface, there is a
risk of transmission to another person.
Although the CDC said that this "has not been documented" it may be
better to be safe than sorry AND BE EXTREMELY OBSESSIVE IN WIPING DOWN
SURFACES.

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 1:48:04 PM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 19:17:28 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?
It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

We are still early in the Covid-19 season (as compared to the flu); so, hard to see the effect for some people.

Covid-19 is 2x to 3x more infectious (especially those without symptoms) as the flu, 20x to 50x more deadly, live outside hosts for days and air-borne (WHO is now confirming this).

The Diamond Princess cruise petri dish, visible from our kitchen
window, was about as bad a disease environment as you can get. Less
than 20 per cent of people on board caught the virus. About half of
those had no symptoms. 7 people died out of 3700 passengers, all of
them over 70.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Epidemiology

Look at the chart halfway down. Why didn't those killers deserve 24/7
press and lockdowns?



The CDC was one of the first sources to let the public know that the
COVID-19 virus is primarily spread via person-to-person contact, mainly
through sneezes and coughs.

Another possible way of becoming infected is by coming into contact
with a surface that has COVID-19 on it. When someone wipes their nose,
sneezes, or coughs into their hand and touches a surface, there is a
risk of transmission to another person.
Although the CDC said that this "has not been documented" it may be
better to be safe than sorry AND BE EXTREMELY OBSESSIVE IN WIPING DOWN
SURFACES.

No means of transmission has been documented that I'm aware of. But other, similar viruses are transmitted mostly though contact with the hands. This disease does tend to produce a cough, but not so much sneezing. There is little head congestion. The lungs collect fluid as in pneumonia. Don't think of this as a cold, think of it as pneumonia.

--

Rick C.

+--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 3:54:07 PM UTC-4, jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 5:20:32 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 5:07:41 PM UTC-4, Dave Platt wrote:
No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.
snip

That's true, but you'd think the federal govt with all the billions
spent on the CDC, FEMA, etc would have thought all this through, would
have had a 1000 page document that a president could call upon when
it hits, instead of figuring it out on the fly. Part of that plan
should have been for multiple paths to a test kit. Instead we relied
on one with a single point of failure.





(Epidemiologists "get it", of course. So do some engineers. I doubt
this situation would have surprised anyone who ever studied the
physics of an atomic bomb.)

Looks like it's going to be a tough ride.

Yup.

My understanding is that FEMA in conjunction with CDC and DHS *does (did?)* have a plan for action for this type of problem. It was shaped by the Ebola and SARS incidents as well as the lessons learned from hurricane disasters over the last 15 years. Have you seen/heard much from them?

The head of FEMA was on one of the Sunday morning shows and he was asked
specifically about allocation, why they have not used DPA to take control
of the supply, allocate etc. He said no plans to do that. The states should
buy whatever they need and the feds will be buying it too. In other words
a stunningly incompetent cluster f***, because of Trump.

As to team Trump, yesterday he rolled out Peter NAvarro, and without
explaining what his new role was, had him talking about working the
supply chain. He indicated he's working with companies to increase
supply, he threatened profiteers hoarding, he seemed to imply that they
might be on the right path. But then Trump resumed speaking, a reporter
asked him about it, about allocating and Trump spent 5 minutes saying
he's not going to "nationalize" companies. He kept saying nationalize
over and over. Stupid is as stupid does. He obviously doesn't understand
what the DPA is all about. No one that I've seen has suggested nationalizing
anything.





The first time I heard anything from FEMA was a day or so ago - an official was describing how they are securing beds, setting up make shift hospitals, etc. I would have expected testing procedures, marshaling of equipment and supplies, logistics, etc.)
> Where was their presence before that?

Good question. I suppose when the DNI got fired for telling the truth
to Congress about Russia meddling again, you figure that if you dare
prepare for a pandemic when Trump says there is no problem, you could
get fired too?

King trump with his superior intellect purposely minimized their involvement so he could claim that 1) he and his group are 'in control' (I feel *so much better* now that Jared is in charge), and 2) he can support his claim that he inherited a broken system (specifically the broken system that came from Obama, and btw, as a fait accompli, *everything* from Obama, and before, was broken.)

My reading of various news sources today indicates FEMA is getting more airplay and involvement.
J

I've been waiting for a reporter to nail him on the "inherited" claim.

"Mr. President, you keep saying you inherited a broken system, it sounds
like you've just been in office a few months, when you have been there
for over three years. When will you take responsibility"?

I know the beginning of the Trump reply. "That's a nasty question,
you're a bad reporter".

 

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 10:48:04 AM UTC-7, Robert Baer wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 19:17:28 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?
It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

We are still early in the Covid-19 season (as compared to the flu); so, hard to see the effect for some people.

Covid-19 is 2x to 3x more infectious (especially those without symptoms) as the flu, 20x to 50x more deadly, live outside hosts for days and air-borne (WHO is now confirming this).

The Diamond Princess cruise petri dish, visible from our kitchen
window, was about as bad a disease environment as you can get. Less
than 20 per cent of people on board caught the virus. About half of
those had no symptoms. 7 people died out of 3700 passengers, all of
them over 70.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Epidemiology

Look at the chart halfway down. Why didn't those killers deserve 24/7
press and lockdowns?



The CDC was one of the first sources to let the public know that the
COVID-19 virus is primarily spread via person-to-person contact, mainly
through sneezes and coughs.

Another possible way of becoming infected is by coming into contact
with a surface that has COVID-19 on it. When someone wipes their nose,
sneezes, or coughs into their hand and touches a surface, there is a
risk of transmission to another person.
Although the CDC said that this "has not been documented" it may be
better to be safe than sorry AND BE EXTREMELY OBSESSIVE IN WIPING DOWN
SURFACES.

Couple of months ago, when the Diamond Princess started to spread, someone said (and i repeated) the virus is likely air-borne. In additional to the DP, some buildings in China got very high rate of cross-infections even in lock-down.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/who-considers-airborne-precautions-for-medical-staff-after-study-shows-coronavirus-can-survive-in-air.html

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 4:01:12 PM UTC-4, jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:34:51 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 14:07:08 -0700, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:

No, there is no _single_ person (or government body) in charge.

The American political system doesn't work that way. Never has,
really. There are (and were) multiple layers of authority and
jurisdiction, which often do not entirely agree.

I don't get it. I thought NYC was in lock down, but it seems the mayor of the city and the Governor of the state are fighting over
this. It was only today that the state of NY is requiring all non-essential personnel to stay home. Really? They are just getting to
this point? I read that Wednesday they required 50% of non-essential workers to stay home, then Thursday 75%. Now, on Friday 100% of
non-essential personnel must stay home because the numbers are still rising. Do these guys think their actions are like adjusting the
faucet? Do they really not understand it takes at least a week to see a result in this situation?

My guess (from out here in the cheap seats) is that they were trying
to reduce the shock to businesses which were going to have to shut
down... give them a day or two of transition time to prepare things
(and employees) for a long layoff.

It was rather more abrupt here in California... both the county-level
"shelter in place" orders, and the subsequent state-level order,
switched to "essential businesses only" without a ramping. Even so,
there's some disagreement between the wording of the county
shelter-in-place orders, and the state-level order, and this has led
to some confusion about just what businesses can stay open at all.

Even the medical personnel don't seem to understand the nature of exponential growth. “The most striking part is the speed with
which it has ramped up", said a Queens ER doctor. Clearly he never spent any time learning about exponential growth.

Well, there's school knowledge (which fades in our memory over time)
and practical hands-on-experience knowledge. As far as I can recall,
this is the first time in the lifetime of most Americans now alive
that we've been faced with a really serious exponential-growth disease
curve (highly contagious, high rate of complications, and little-to-no
immune memory in the population to help). So, in practice, it's a new
situation to most of us.

(Epidemiologists "get it", of course. So do some engineers. I doubt
this situation would have surprised anyone who ever studied the
physics of an atomic bomb.)

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

There are really intricate math models that predict the rate of infection growth with a lot of variables to play with that would provide some insight as to proliferation and geographic densities. Its a model, probably no better that 50% accurate for any one set of parameters.....what is interesting to me is that I haven't seen any news about these models or predictions.

Then you're not looking hard. It was reported days ago that the Imperial
College in London has models that showed that if nothing was done, the US
could have 2.2 mil dead here.




Maybe because the results are too scary, or, there are way to may variables to adjust to reflect reality...
> Then again, doing the modeling is probably OBE'ed at this point

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 5:15:29 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 12:23:04 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 2:32:28 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 10:41:48 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 1:24:18 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 20:15:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:59:33 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 19:17:28 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?
It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

We are still early in the Covid-19 season (as compared to the flu); so, hard to see the effect for some people.

Covid-19 is 2x to 3x more infectious (especially those without symptoms) as the flu, 20x to 50x more deadly, live outside hosts for days and air-borne (WHO is now confirming this).

The Diamond Princess cruise petri dish, visible from our kitchen
window, was about as bad a disease environment as you can get. Less
than 20 per cent of people on board caught the virus. About half of
those had no symptoms. 7 people died out of 3700 passengers, all of
them over 70.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Epidemiology

Look at the chart halfway down. Why didn't those killers deserve 24/7
press and lockdowns?

Those have been going on for many years. This is the first year for Covid-19. We can come back and compare them in a few years.

Yes. A flu virus got a fancy name and scary pictures and 24/7 press
coverage. Any seasonal flu could have had that honor.

So, Trump your hero is lying again when even he now admits this isn't
the flu? And no, any seasonal flu could not have the same results.

Right. Some have been much worse.




Yes, like the Spanish Flu, 1918. Most of us learned from that. You
want to repeat it.


I want to have a mild flu go away

All the evidence from around the world is that we don't have a mild flu.


> in the spring, and not come back.

That would be nice, but the probability is that won't happen on it's own.



> And I want an economy that's not wrecked for years.

I want to find a million on my porch.

And I want to understand the dynamics of this thing, because I like
dynamics. I don't make public policy, and apparently speculation about
possibilities is frowned on here. In a DESIGN group!

Some people here seem to relish a really deadly outcome, so mock the
idea of anything else.

I don't see that, only a recognition of the facts.


So do the newspapers. A few experts have

actually offered a best-case outcome, alongside the worst-case one of
course.

My PCB is looking great.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 5:03:31 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 10:30:40 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 10:17:33 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?
It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

We are still early in the Covid-19 season (as compared to the flu); so, hard to see the effect for some people.

Covid-19 is 2x to 3x more infectious (especially those without symptoms) as the flu, 20x to 50x more deadly, live outside hosts for days and air-borne (WHO is now confirming this).

A good example of that is the Jewish lawyer in Westchester. He got infected,
presumably while in FL. He in turn infected his wife, his two kids,
a friend, where it spread to the friend's wife and all three of their kids,
and he even infected the neighbor who drove him to the hospital.

We have another case here where a man in North Jersey was infected, like from
the above route as it spread. He attended a family event in central NJ,
infecting ten people. Of those ten, a grandmother and three of her
children are now dead, two or three more are in ICU.

How old were the children? Numerous sites claim that no young child
has died of this. The youngest may have been 14.

They were all middle aged adults, the grandmother I think was in her 70s.

For someone younger, we just had the first NJ coronavirus patient
released from the hospital over the weekend. He is 32, no pre-existing
conditions. He went home with two oxygen machines, one to carry with
him, a bigger one for nighttime. The doctors told him they do not know
if he will full recover from the lung fibrosis. He was in the hospital
for 19 days.

You don't typically see that kind of thing with a typical flu season.
It's believed that some of these people are super spreaders, able for
some unknown reason to more easily spread it. Also right now the death
rate of closed cases, ie where people around the world have either recovered
or died is 11%.. You don't see that with flu either.

We need an antibody test to see who has had it.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:47:54 -0700, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 19:17:28 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?
It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

We are still early in the Covid-19 season (as compared to the flu); so, hard to see the effect for some people.

Covid-19 is 2x to 3x more infectious (especially those without symptoms) as the flu, 20x to 50x more deadly, live outside hosts for days and air-borne (WHO is now confirming this).

The Diamond Princess cruise petri dish, visible from our kitchen
window, was about as bad a disease environment as you can get. Less
than 20 per cent of people on board caught the virus. About half of
those had no symptoms. 7 people died out of 3700 passengers, all of
them over 70.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Epidemiology

Look at the chart halfway down. Why didn't those killers deserve 24/7
press and lockdowns?



The CDC was one of the first sources to let the public know that the
COVID-19 virus is primarily spread via person-to-person contact, mainly
through sneezes and coughs.

Another possible way of becoming infected is by coming into contact
with a surface that has COVID-19 on it. When someone wipes their nose,
sneezes, or coughs into their hand and touches a surface, there is a
risk of transmission to another person.

Is C19 unique among seasonal flus in the way it propagates?

Why are so many people terrified of this one?



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:13:57 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

Only thing the US government is planning to do is the one thing they
know how to do at the moment, give a trillion dollars to their
billionaire buddies:

https://qz.com/1823225/senate-republicans-corporate-rescue-more-like-slush-fund-dems-say/

I'm not excited about bailing out large businesses, but the bottom line is we need business to stay in business both to provide goods and to provide jobs when this is over. So helping them stay in business is good, but I don't think they need money up front. We need to deal with them on a case by case basis after they enter bankruptcy. Going into bankruptcy does require layoffs or office closures. The other term for it is "restructuring" and is mostly about debt, not operations.

Baloney. All the businesses that the company owes for goods, services,
etc. they are now on the list of creditors and unsure if they will get
paid. The stockholders are wiped out. Do that to the airlines, cruise
ships, Boeing, etc and the damage to the economy will be deep and last
longer. Give them a loan or loan and some direct bailout and all that
is avoided.

The issue seems to be the lack of controls to assure the money is used properly rather than to line the pockets of the owners.

This isn't a tax cut in good times. I think you would have to look hard
to find the 2008 bailout being used to line pockets of stockholders or
executives. Democrats can't seem to understand this.




I believe the deal with GM a dozen years ago allowed the government the option to take stock in the company. I don't recall the details but I did hear that we made money on the deal. Maybe we can do that with more companies and won't have to pay taxes for a few years?

The govt did take an equity position and did profit on it. I have no
problem with a similar approach here. The big question is how bad this
gets, how many trillions the govt has to shell out, how much tax revenue
shrinks and at what point US bond holders may start to figure out we
can't pay it back. The fed hasn't unwound most of the crap they bought
in the 2008 debacle, now they are going to have to buy up even more,
putting their status into question too.

--

Rick C.

-+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 4:30:22 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:13:57 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

Only thing the US government is planning to do is the one thing they
know how to do at the moment, give a trillion dollars to their
billionaire buddies:

https://qz.com/1823225/senate-republicans-corporate-rescue-more-like-slush-fund-dems-say/

I'm not excited about bailing out large businesses, but the bottom line is we need business to stay in business both to provide goods and to provide jobs when this is over. So helping them stay in business is good, but I don't think they need money up front. We need to deal with them on a case by case basis after they enter bankruptcy. Going into bankruptcy does require layoffs or office closures. The other term for it is "restructuring" and is mostly about debt, not operations.

Baloney. All the businesses that the company owes for goods, services,
etc. they are now on the list of creditors and unsure if they will get
paid. The stockholders are wiped out. Do that to the airlines, cruise
ships, Boeing, etc and the damage to the economy will be deep and last
longer. Give them a loan or loan and some direct bailout and all that
is avoided.

Yes, give them a loan once they are in bankruptcy. You seem to think all is lost when in bankruptcy. No, many creditors are paid. The companies need their suppliers. That's why the loans are made, to keep paying those who can be paid.

I don't give a damn about the stockholders. Investing in a company is taking a risk. EVERYONE knows that. I guess you were happy giving the banks so much money during the last financial meltdown that they in turn invested rather than using to continue making loans.

The issue seems to be the lack of controls to assure the money is used properly rather than to line the pockets of the owners.

This isn't a tax cut in good times. I think you would have to look hard
to find the 2008 bailout being used to line pockets of stockholders or
executives. Democrats can't seem to understand this.

Yes, it would be hard for me to name the banks... let's see, Citibank is one I recall... BoA... well, you get the idea. Were you around at the time? As soon as they got the money from Congress they acted in their own best interest and the government said, "we won't let that happen again".

I believe the deal with GM a dozen years ago allowed the government the option to take stock in the company. I don't recall the details but I did hear that we made money on the deal. Maybe we can do that with more companies and won't have to pay taxes for a few years?

The govt did take an equity position and did profit on it. I have no
problem with a similar approach here. The big question is how bad this
gets, how many trillions the govt has to shell out, how much tax revenue
shrinks and at what point US bond holders may start to figure out we
can't pay it back. The fed hasn't unwound most of the crap they bought
in the 2008 debacle, now they are going to have to buy up even more,
putting their status into question too.

Oh, what do they still own from 2008?

It can't be too bad. GM is going to make a killing from ventilators. Tesla provided a bunch of masks, but I'm not sure where they got them. I never heard anyone say they made them rather than just buying them. Anyone can do that... well, except for the government.

--

Rick C.

+--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 5:15:29 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 12:23:04 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 2:32:28 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 10:41:48 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 1:24:18 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 20:15:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:59:33 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 19:17:28 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?
It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

We are still early in the Covid-19 season (as compared to the flu); so, hard to see the effect for some people.

Covid-19 is 2x to 3x more infectious (especially those without symptoms) as the flu, 20x to 50x more deadly, live outside hosts for days and air-borne (WHO is now confirming this).

The Diamond Princess cruise petri dish, visible from our kitchen
window, was about as bad a disease environment as you can get. Less
than 20 per cent of people on board caught the virus. About half of
those had no symptoms. 7 people died out of 3700 passengers, all of
them over 70.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Epidemiology

Look at the chart halfway down. Why didn't those killers deserve 24/7
press and lockdowns?

Those have been going on for many years. This is the first year for Covid-19. We can come back and compare them in a few years.

Yes. A flu virus got a fancy name and scary pictures and 24/7 press
coverage. Any seasonal flu could have had that honor.

So, Trump your hero is lying again when even he now admits this isn't
the flu? And no, any seasonal flu could not have the same results.

Right. Some have been much worse.




Yes, like the Spanish Flu, 1918. Most of us learned from that. You
want to repeat it.


I want to have a mild flu go away

All the evidence from around the world is that we don't have a mild flu.


in the spring, and not come back.

That would be nice, but the probability is that won't happen on it's own.



And I want an economy that's not wrecked for years.

I want to find a million on my porch.




And I want to understand the dynamics of this thing, because I like
dynamics. I don't make public policy, and apparently speculation about
possibilities is frowned on here. In a DESIGN group!

Some people here seem to relish a really deadly outcome, so mock the
idea of anything else.

I don't see that, only a recognition of the facts.

Total flu deaths in the US, so far this season : 34,157

Deaths from C19 : 573.

And C19 is killing mostly old, sick people. Not kids like other flus.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 4:59:06 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 5:15:29 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 12:23:04 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 2:32:28 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 10:41:48 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 1:24:18 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 20:15:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:59:33 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 19:17:28 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?
It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

We are still early in the Covid-19 season (as compared to the flu); so, hard to see the effect for some people.

Covid-19 is 2x to 3x more infectious (especially those without symptoms) as the flu, 20x to 50x more deadly, live outside hosts for days and air-borne (WHO is now confirming this).

The Diamond Princess cruise petri dish, visible from our kitchen
window, was about as bad a disease environment as you can get. Less
than 20 per cent of people on board caught the virus. About half of
those had no symptoms. 7 people died out of 3700 passengers, all of
them over 70.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Epidemiology

Look at the chart halfway down. Why didn't those killers deserve 24/7
press and lockdowns?

Those have been going on for many years. This is the first year for Covid-19. We can come back and compare them in a few years.

Yes. A flu virus got a fancy name and scary pictures and 24/7 press
coverage. Any seasonal flu could have had that honor.

So, Trump your hero is lying again when even he now admits this isn't
the flu? And no, any seasonal flu could not have the same results.

Right. Some have been much worse.




Yes, like the Spanish Flu, 1918. Most of us learned from that. You
want to repeat it.


I want to have a mild flu go away

All the evidence from around the world is that we don't have a mild flu.


in the spring, and not come back.

That would be nice, but the probability is that won't happen on it's own.



And I want an economy that's not wrecked for years.

I want to find a million on my porch.




And I want to understand the dynamics of this thing, because I like
dynamics. I don't make public policy, and apparently speculation about
possibilities is frowned on here. In a DESIGN group!

Some people here seem to relish a really deadly outcome, so mock the
idea of anything else.

I don't see that, only a recognition of the facts.

Total flu deaths in the US, so far this season : 34,157

Deaths from C19 : 573.

And C19 is killing mostly old, sick people. Not kids like other flus.

Why don't you circulate with a bunch of younger people and get your inoculation? Then you can become immune and pontificate from your empty office.

--

Rick C.

+-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 3:01:12 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Whoey Louie wrote:

Even Trump now admits it's very different. So, he's lying again?

No but lots of people lie about Trump. He blocked travel from China
before most others thought it was a problem.

Here in New York, our far-left Chancellor of Education, Carranza,
ordered school staff not to report symptomatic students and staff to the
Health Department only 10 days ago.

I agree with you, Cuomo should have quarantined Westchester County
when it was obvious it was becoming a hot spot. Instead he allowed
commuters to get on the 7:05 train and spread it right on in to NYC.
Funny though, the lib media won't point that out or ask him about
that huge mistake. Same mistake by the governor of WA, another Democrat.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 4:59:06 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 13:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 5:15:29 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 12:23:04 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 2:32:28 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 10:41:48 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 1:24:18 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 20:15:45 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 7:59:33 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 19:17:28 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

Don't all seasonal flus grow exponentially? What's special about this
one?
It was a simple question. Can anybody answer it? Or did the dog eat
your homework?

We are still early in the Covid-19 season (as compared to the flu); so, hard to see the effect for some people.

Covid-19 is 2x to 3x more infectious (especially those without symptoms) as the flu, 20x to 50x more deadly, live outside hosts for days and air-borne (WHO is now confirming this).

The Diamond Princess cruise petri dish, visible from our kitchen
window, was about as bad a disease environment as you can get. Less
than 20 per cent of people on board caught the virus. About half of
those had no symptoms. 7 people died out of 3700 passengers, all of
them over 70.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Epidemiology

Look at the chart halfway down. Why didn't those killers deserve 24/7
press and lockdowns?

Those have been going on for many years. This is the first year for Covid-19. We can come back and compare them in a few years.

Yes. A flu virus got a fancy name and scary pictures and 24/7 press
coverage. Any seasonal flu could have had that honor.

So, Trump your hero is lying again when even he now admits this isn't
the flu? And no, any seasonal flu could not have the same results.

Right. Some have been much worse.




Yes, like the Spanish Flu, 1918. Most of us learned from that. You
want to repeat it.


I want to have a mild flu go away

All the evidence from around the world is that we don't have a mild flu.


in the spring, and not come back.

That would be nice, but the probability is that won't happen on it's own.



And I want an economy that's not wrecked for years.

I want to find a million on my porch.




And I want to understand the dynamics of this thing, because I like
dynamics. I don't make public policy, and apparently speculation about
possibilities is frowned on here. In a DESIGN group!

Some people here seem to relish a really deadly outcome, so mock the
idea of anything else.

I don't see that, only a recognition of the facts.

Total flu deaths in the US, so far this season : 34,157

Deaths from C19 : 573.

And C19 is killing mostly old, sick people. Not kids like other flus.

Keep comparing a mostly complete flu season, which never came close to
overloading any hospitals, to just the beginning of the Covid acceleration.
You should be comparing it to the flu situation in maybe December. This
has a mortality rate of 10X or more of the flu. And many more people
of all ages, in serious condition, hospitalized. If we listened to you,
Rush and Hannity and did not limit the spread, the hospitals would
be overloaded and we would look like Italy. Is Trump lying when even
he admits we have don't have enough ventilators? Why would we need
ventilators, if it's just the flu. Are you really dumb as a brick?

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 5:03:27 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 4:30:22 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:13:57 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

Only thing the US government is planning to do is the one thing they
know how to do at the moment, give a trillion dollars to their
billionaire buddies:

https://qz.com/1823225/senate-republicans-corporate-rescue-more-like-slush-fund-dems-say/

I'm not excited about bailing out large businesses, but the bottom line is we need business to stay in business both to provide goods and to provide jobs when this is over. So helping them stay in business is good, but I don't think they need money up front. We need to deal with them on a case by case basis after they enter bankruptcy. Going into bankruptcy does require layoffs or office closures. The other term for it is "restructuring" and is mostly about debt, not operations.

Baloney. All the businesses that the company owes for goods, services,
etc. they are now on the list of creditors and unsure if they will get
paid. The stockholders are wiped out. Do that to the airlines, cruise
ships, Boeing, etc and the damage to the economy will be deep and last
longer. Give them a loan or loan and some direct bailout and all that
is avoided.

Yes, give them a loan once they are in bankruptcy. You seem to think all is lost when in bankruptcy. No, many creditors are paid.

That isn't reassuring that you may get paid, when your own company is
on the rocks. It just deepens the crisis and spreads it to other companies..
And to all the investors that own stock, who will be wiped out. What
do you think that does to their outlook and spending?




The companies need their suppliers. That's why the loans are made, to keep paying those who can be paid.

I don't give a damn about the stockholders.

Of course not, you're a lib. But many of those stockholders are just
Joe Six Pack, with their retirement invested in it. Obviously it's
better if they are not wiped out.


> Investing in a company is taking a risk. EVERYONE knows that. I guess you were happy giving the banks so much money during the last financial meltdown that they in turn invested rather than using to continue making loans..

BS. The govt didn't give them money, it LENT them money and within a couple
years it was all paid back with interest.

The issue seems to be the lack of controls to assure the money is used properly rather than to line the pockets of the owners.

This isn't a tax cut in good times. I think you would have to look hard
to find the 2008 bailout being used to line pockets of stockholders or
executives. Democrats can't seem to understand this.

Yes, it would be hard for me to name the banks... let's see, Citibank is one I recall... BoA... well, you get the idea. Were you around at the time? As soon as they got the money from Congress they acted in their own best interest and the government said, "we won't let that happen again".

That's a lie, which is why you can't find it. They were given LOANS,
they repaid it quickly with interests. But you and Bernie would rather
have seen them go bankrupt, throw the whole economy into a depression.
Fortunately Obama wasn't that stupid. My how the Democrats have gone
down the crazy drain since then.

I believe the deal with GM a dozen years ago allowed the government the option to take stock in the company. I don't recall the details but I did hear that we made money on the deal. Maybe we can do that with more companies and won't have to pay taxes for a few years?

The govt did take an equity position and did profit on it. I have no
problem with a similar approach here. The big question is how bad this
gets, how many trillions the govt has to shell out, how much tax revenue
shrinks and at what point US bond holders may start to figure out we
can't pay it back. The fed hasn't unwound most of the crap they bought
in the 2008 debacle, now they are going to have to buy up even more,
putting their status into question too.

Oh, what do they still own from 2008?

You don't know? I thought you were the expert. Last I looked they were
about $4 tril, asshole deep to an elephant in mortgage backed securities
and bonds they bought. In other words, they barely started to reverse
their previous desperate act. Where do you think all the money that's
propelled the stock market and economy came from?

--

Rick C.

+--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 5:59:07 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 5:03:27 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 4:30:22 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:13:57 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

Only thing the US government is planning to do is the one thing they
know how to do at the moment, give a trillion dollars to their
billionaire buddies:

https://qz.com/1823225/senate-republicans-corporate-rescue-more-like-slush-fund-dems-say/

I'm not excited about bailing out large businesses, but the bottom line is we need business to stay in business both to provide goods and to provide jobs when this is over. So helping them stay in business is good, but I don't think they need money up front. We need to deal with them on a case by case basis after they enter bankruptcy. Going into bankruptcy does require layoffs or office closures. The other term for it is "restructuring" and is mostly about debt, not operations.

Baloney. All the businesses that the company owes for goods, services,
etc. they are now on the list of creditors and unsure if they will get
paid. The stockholders are wiped out. Do that to the airlines, cruise
ships, Boeing, etc and the damage to the economy will be deep and last
longer. Give them a loan or loan and some direct bailout and all that
is avoided.

Yes, give them a loan once they are in bankruptcy. You seem to think all is lost when in bankruptcy. No, many creditors are paid.

That isn't reassuring that you may get paid, when your own company is
on the rocks. It just deepens the crisis and spreads it to other companies.
And to all the investors that own stock, who will be wiped out. What
do you think that does to their outlook and spending?

When people are going to be dying, I don't give a shit. First deal with the immediate crisis.

The companies need their suppliers. That's why the loans are made, to keep paying those who can be paid.

I don't give a damn about the stockholders.

Of course not, you're a lib. But many of those stockholders are just
Joe Six Pack, with their retirement invested in it. Obviously it's
better if they are not wiped out.

I'm sorry, which is it, libs want to hand out free money or libs don't want to help anyone else? I'm confused.

The market will recover and people's investments will return. Dumping money into every company so the owners can line their pockets is not how to handle this.

Investing in a company is taking a risk. EVERYONE knows that. I guess you were happy giving the banks so much money during the last financial meltdown that they in turn invested rather than using to continue making loans.

BS. The govt didn't give them money, it LENT them money and within a couple
years it was all paid back with interest.

Which the banks used in ways we did not intend. Remember at the time they were "too big to fail" and our goal was to protect the system, not the banks. We didn't build in enough safe guards to make sure the money was used to keep the system flowing and the banks used it to boost their profits.

The issue seems to be the lack of controls to assure the money is used properly rather than to line the pockets of the owners.

This isn't a tax cut in good times. I think you would have to look hard
to find the 2008 bailout being used to line pockets of stockholders or
executives. Democrats can't seem to understand this.

Yes, it would be hard for me to name the banks... let's see, Citibank is one I recall... BoA... well, you get the idea. Were you around at the time? As soon as they got the money from Congress they acted in their own best interest and the government said, "we won't let that happen again".

That's a lie, which is why you can't find it. They were given LOANS,
they repaid it quickly with interests. But you and Bernie would rather
have seen them go bankrupt, throw the whole economy into a depression.
Fortunately Obama wasn't that stupid. My how the Democrats have gone
down the crazy drain since then.

Yeah, loans, but for the purpose of protecting the economy, not the banks. This time we will make sure the fat cats aren't the only ones to do well from it.

--

Rick C.

+-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 7:01:29 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 5:59:07 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 5:03:27 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 4:30:22 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:53:50 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 9:13:57 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

Only thing the US government is planning to do is the one thing they
know how to do at the moment, give a trillion dollars to their
billionaire buddies:

https://qz.com/1823225/senate-republicans-corporate-rescue-more-like-slush-fund-dems-say/

I'm not excited about bailing out large businesses, but the bottom line is we need business to stay in business both to provide goods and to provide jobs when this is over. So helping them stay in business is good, but I don't think they need money up front. We need to deal with them on a case by case basis after they enter bankruptcy. Going into bankruptcy does require layoffs or office closures. The other term for it is "restructuring" and is mostly about debt, not operations.

Baloney. All the businesses that the company owes for goods, services,
etc. they are now on the list of creditors and unsure if they will get
paid. The stockholders are wiped out. Do that to the airlines, cruise
ships, Boeing, etc and the damage to the economy will be deep and last
longer. Give them a loan or loan and some direct bailout and all that
is avoided.

Yes, give them a loan once they are in bankruptcy. You seem to think all is lost when in bankruptcy. No, many creditors are paid.

That isn't reassuring that you may get paid, when your own company is
on the rocks. It just deepens the crisis and spreads it to other companies.
And to all the investors that own stock, who will be wiped out. What
do you think that does to their outlook and spending?

When people are going to be dying, I don't give a shit. First deal with the immediate crisis.

That's a good one! Obviously you do give a shit because you're complaining
about companies being given support to keep them in business, which is
part of the total bailout.

The companies need their suppliers. That's why the loans are made, to keep paying those who can be paid.

I don't give a damn about the stockholders.

Of course not, you're a lib. But many of those stockholders are just
Joe Six Pack, with their retirement invested in it. Obviously it's
better if they are not wiped out.

I'm sorry, which is it, libs want to hand out free money or libs don't want to help anyone else? I'm confused.

The market will recover and people's investments will return.

Not if the company goes bankrupt. The stockholders typically get wiped
out.



Dumping money into every company so the owners can line their pockets is not how to handle this.

No one suggested dumping money into every company's pocket either.

Investing in a company is taking a risk. EVERYONE knows that. I guess you were happy giving the banks so much money during the last financial meltdown that they in turn invested rather than using to continue making loans.

BS. The govt didn't give them money, it LENT them money and within a couple
years it was all paid back with interest.

Which the banks used in ways we did not intend.

Still waiting for you to show that. And even if they did, again, all the
money the banks BORROWED was quickly repaid with interest. Is that so
awful? You libs like to pretend they were just given free money. Same with
TARP. Some $700 bil was approved, about $450 bil as I recall actually
issued, most of that by OBAMA. That too was almost all paid back, last
time I was still looking at it only about $50 bil was left outstanding.
The govt either had a small loss or a small profit in the end. That's
a fantastic outcome for anything the feds do and it saved millions of
jobs and the economy. Only commies like Bernie have an issue with it.



> Remember at the time they were "too big to fail" and our goal was to protect the system, not the banks.

We had to do both. And it was not just the banks, the auto companies
for example, were bailed out too.

We didn't build in enough safe guards to make sure the money was used to keep the system flowing and the banks used it to boost their profits.


The issue seems to be the lack of controls to assure the money is used properly rather than to line the pockets of the owners.

This isn't a tax cut in good times. I think you would have to look hard
to find the 2008 bailout being used to line pockets of stockholders or
executives. Democrats can't seem to understand this.

Yes, it would be hard for me to name the banks... let's see, Citibank is one I recall... BoA... well, you get the idea. Were you around at the time? As soon as they got the money from Congress they acted in their own best interest and the government said, "we won't let that happen again".

That's a lie, which is why you can't find it. They were given LOANS,
they repaid it quickly with interests. But you and Bernie would rather
have seen them go bankrupt, throw the whole economy into a depression.
Fortunately Obama wasn't that stupid. My how the Democrats have gone
down the crazy drain since then.

Yeah, loans, but for the purpose of protecting the economy, not the banks.. This time we will make sure the fat cats aren't the only ones to do well from it.

The lie repeated. Again, the banks quickly repaid the loans with interest.
AMERICA did well because of it. Stop being a Bernie commie.

--

Rick C.

+-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209