For All the Michael Moore Fans

[Roger Gt]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com>
wrote in message
news:0gioe0prsrjm47uu6dpem20c6kf2vhp71t@4ax.com...
: On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:24:35 -0400, Chuck Harris
: <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:
:
: >John Larkin wrote:
: >>>I'm sure that you are wrong. Japan has the highest suicide
rate in
: >>>the world... and no legal gun ownership. How *DO* they do
it?
: >>>-Chuck Harris
: >> Well, David probably wouldn't have been able to kill the
senator with
: >> his bare hands (the old fart was BIG) so the whole thing
likely would
: >> have ended up in shouting or scuffling.
: >A piddling swing with a baseball bat to his head would do the
trick
: >just fine. We should outlaw baseball bats.
:
: I can only cite my personal experience (since nobody will
believe
: statistics when they contradict his prejudices):
: Two guys I knew, dead from self-inflicted gunshots
:
: One murder by gunshot
:
: Two killings of people I didn't know, on my block, when I lived
across
: from the Projects.

So you lived in a bad area and so everyone should be punished and
loose their rights because it upset you? Gat real, see a shrink!

: Zero murders/suicides by other means. Note zero murders/suicides
in
: households that had baseball bats, but no guns.

How would you know? Many are not reported in the media!

: Zero examples of defense of home/hearth against intruders

Again, you have the media filtering what you hear and they tend to
favor gun control so they only report when it sounds like
something that will put the spin on the story they want you to
swallow!

: Zero examples of defense of the Constitution against the ravages
of
: facist governments (fascist?)

ONE! We don't have one YET! Unlikely as long as those who want
it know the possibly for their future!

: One recent neighborhood domestic quarrel with gun, involving
about 20
: cops who locked down the neighborhood for about 2 hours. One
arrest,
: nobody got hurt.

Over reactions are common.

: >> There's no way we're going to change the gun situation in
this
: >> country, but if you have teenagers around the house,
especially males,
: >> keep the guns locked up.
: >
: >Or, you could teach your kids what guns are all about, and make
them
: >competent. You could teach your kids that people don't come
back from
: >being dead like they do in the movies. You could teach your
kids moral
: >values. Nah! Too much like work! Go back to your TV.
:
: Kids sometimes get depressed; they outgrow it, if they live.

Everyone gets depressed, face it the future under a democrat in
the white house is pretty grim.

: Of course your personal experiences may be different from mine.
The
: death rate by gun is only about 140 PPM per year in this country
: (Japan is about 4) so it's unlikely that you or yours will ever
be
: involved in a gun death. For middle-class adults, cars are far
more
: dangerous.
: John

So with no guns they manage to have a 4PPM rate? How cleaver! How
unrelated!

Where I live there has been only one murder in thirty-three years,
with a butcher knife! Few incidences of violence, but you
understand that 60% or the home owners had guns and know how to
use them! Including the fourteen police officers that live in the
near neighborhoods.

 

[Roger Gt]

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:ghjoe0d8f99kanl3vf2jlgioqptgc2fu0r@4ax.com...
:
: At my old location I had a neighbor about a block away, took a
swing
: at his wife, but she ducked and his arm went thru a glass
window...
: bled to death before the next-door neighbor (a doctor) could do
: anything.
: ...Jim Thompson


I had forgotten until I read this, I had a neighbor who put his
hand in an edger. I heard him pleading for the next door neighbor
to take him to the emergency room. He refused! I ran down and
got his hand wrapped in a towel and drove him to the local
emergency room. He recovered, the damage was mostly reparable.
Learned that the next door neighbor wouldn't drive him for help
because his two sons had been arrested for selling drugs to an
undercover agent at the high school. They got long terms in
prison, but the man didn't deserve to bleed to death!

Roger Gt.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:50:29 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
<rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:

[snip]

If that is what you are saying, then I would counter on two fronts.
First, my belief is that private gun ownership does not, in fact,
deter crime. Neighborhoods with more guns are subject to more crime.
If gun ownership prevented crime, that would probably not be true.

[snip]

Bob Monsen

Please cite some *facts*/*references* to support your statements
above.

There is a town (in Georgia if I remember correctly) that *requires*
every citizen to own a gun. Result, burglaries went virtually to
zero.

Here, in Phoenix, where it's legal to carry, even without a permit, if
the gun is visible, have a **much** lower crime rate than New York
City, where guns are theoretically banned.

Now we do suffer from an occasional gun battle amongst "illegals",
but, to my mind, they're expendable anyway ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:28:00 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

At my old location I had a neighbor about a block away, took a swing
at his wife, but she ducked and his arm went thru a glass window...
bled to death before the next-door neighbor (a doctor) could do
anything.

...Jim Thompson

Doesn't sound like she was in any great rush to apply a tourniquet.
Serves him right, beating up on women. Or windows. Whatever.

John

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:09:50 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:28:00 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:



At my old location I had a neighbor about a block away, took a swing
at his wife, but she ducked and his arm went thru a glass window...
bled to death before the next-door neighbor (a doctor) could do
anything.

...Jim Thompson


Doesn't sound like she was in any great rush to apply a tourniquet.
Serves him right, beating up on women. Or windows. Whatever.

John

Talking to the doctor at that incident, underarm between elbow and
shoulder is about the worst place to get a slash wound :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Roger Gt]

Random <snips> of dead portions of the thread. Not all labeled!

"Robert C Monsen" <rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9uYGc.7645$WX.4189@attbi_s51...

: > No! If they didn't carry, or use guns your thin argument might
: > (only might) carry some weight. It has nothing to do with
: > "Helping them" to do what they are hired to do. If guns are
"Not
: > Helping them" do their jobs THEY should give them up for
something
: > more helpful! BUT they can not propose (except as
individuals)
: > any ban or confiscation of the publics arms.
:
: No, again, simply, the point is that YOU having a gun doesn't
help
: THEM. Please, pay attention.

That was not what YOU said! And providing a deterrent is one way
to reduce crime (according to my local police department) like a
neighborhood watch.

: > So believing that crime is a good profession doesn't make them
: > criminals? I agree, committing the crime does!
:
: This is really getting lame. You attempt to misdirect what I'm
saying
: again and again. Can't your arguments, such as they are, stand
up to
: any scrutiny?

There was no "Misdirection, I was working with your poorly stated
position.

: > But You are truly dense! Democrats are the ones proposing the
: > lame laws to restrict private ownership, they do everything to
: > protect the criminal from the honest citizen who will try to
: > protect their property or lives by disarming them, the law
however
: > says you can not require a criminal to register or turn in
their
: > weapon because doing so will self incriminate them. (5th
: > Amendment) So the laws the Democrats propose protect the
criminal
: > from harm while engaging in the criminal activity.
:
: I believe you are trying to say that you believe Democrats are
: fostering crime by attempting to enact legislation that would
limit
: gun ownership, thereby protecting criminals, since honest
citizens
: could otherwise protect themselves and their property with their
guns.

Close, They (the demon-Rats) are protecting the criminals!

: You also seem to be saying that its illegal for criminals to
turn in
: guns, because by doing so, they would be incriminating
themselves.
: Requiring them to do so is thus a violation of the 5th
amendment,
: which states that a person may not be forced to testify against
: himself in a court of law.

No, a law to require a criminal to turn in his guns is
unenforceable BECAUSE he IS A CRIMINAL. Court ruling!

: If that is what you are saying, then I would counter on two
fronts.
: First, my belief is that private gun ownership does not, in
fact,
: deter crime. Neighborhoods with more guns are subject to more
crime.
: If gun ownership prevented crime, that would probably not be
true.

Your belief is irrelevant! I live in an area with 60% gun owners
and crime is minimal here. Occasional car, or burglary, and some
drugs or a DUI. But at a very low rate. There are substantial
studies that establish just that, and a city that requires gun
ownership and training is almost crime free.

: Secondly, many guns that are owned by criminals are
unregistered.
: Since they are already illegal, the criminals are already
supposed to
: give them up, or be subject to prosecution. So, this is already
the
: case; if they decide to give up the weapons voluntarily, and
that act
: is used to prosecute them for illegal gun ownership, they are
: voluntarily giving up the weapon, and thus volunteering the
: information. There is nothing in the 5th amendment which
precludes
: one from giving testimony against oneself. Its only stated that
one
: cannot be forced to give such testimony. If, on the other hand,
they
: do NOT give up the weapon, and it is discovered, they can be
: prosecuted without their own testimony. Thus, your point is both
silly
: and moot.

Few guns are "registered" since that would be a constitutional
violation!
Only Machine guns, large caliber weapons (Cannons and larger than
50 caliber) which require a CLASS 100 License.

: > You are grasping at straws, your inability to understand is
: > annoying!

Your inability to make a rational statement without later
quibbling is also annoying!

: You also have a tendency to ad hominem attack. Please, try to be
: civil. If you are wrong, be a man and admit it. If you are
right, back
: it up with rational arguments. Don't call democrats 'criminals',
or
: call me 'lame', simply because you have no argument.

No, I have criticized your lack of clear verifiable statements and
your shifting to deliberate false statistics and other tired,
trite methods, and propaganda of the Gun control freaks.

I said that the statement was Lame, I haven't called you anything.
": > Like your lame position?"

When you start doubting your making a point you resort to implied
insults and attacks. I call them as I see them, and you can not
alter my opinion on anything. You clearly have no standing!

: > : Also, you aren't going to protect us from invasion.
: > That is the primary function of the militia, along with
prevention
: > of crime, capturing and turning in criminals, and the entire
list
: > of the duties you have never bothered to read about!
:
: These were duties that were required of us in the 1780s? Well,
times
: have changed for some of us.

They haven't changed at all! Neither has the need.
Oh! I'm sorry, are you saying you've been convicted of a felony?
Then your right! Your position is much clearer if that is the
case!

: > : Ah, my stepfather let his guns rust. I'm sure lots of people
do.
: > : They just aren't very useful anymore.
: > Two Fools! Figures!
:
: Again with the attacks. You really shouldn't get so worked up.
My
: father in law didn't need the guns, he no longer hunted, and
didn't
: really expect to be called up to serve the minutemen.

Characterization, not an attack! I am not worked up, I am
disgusted!

: > : Nobody said anything about welfare.
: > Actually YOU did!
: No, I didn't.

Another Lie?

: Indirectly, since all public servants ARE
: > functionally on welfare!
:
: Are you talking about the ones that educate our kids? Or the
ones that
: build our roads? Which ones are you talking about, I think you
should
: explain yourself here, so everybody can understand the depth of
your
: thought.
:
: (They receive money from the government!)

Yes, Including my two sisters! (Teachers)
I do not need to explain. If your able to read and comprehend the
language I am quite clear on all points.

: > No one said anything about "revennooers" until you interjected
: > that bastardized word into the discussion. The language of an
: > literate? What the hell is it? I'm not into dialects!
: >
: Sorry, it was a joke, referring to a certain form of
anti-government
: activity (moonshine). I'll try to keep my remarks simple for you
in
: the future.

Now you think excessive government is funny? You are a strange
thing indeed!

: > First the Democrats support a policy that results in a
reduction
: > in income for the average citizen, then tax the same citizen
to
: > pay welfare to buy off criminals? You make no sense!
:
: You don't have any evidence to back that up.

Several Economists made the statement, I only said it because I
see it happening. Look it up!

: > Keeping your gun serviceable is also in your best interests,
but
: > you neglect self defense in favor of paying a toll to the
unruly!
:
: No, as I pointed out, (in a civil way, I might add,) I believe
that
: when you own a gun, serviceable or not, it is NOT in anyone's
best
: interests.

You have never been civil! Also, I can't believe you think in
such a twisted and strange way. To suggest that anyone should
trust that government will take care of them and that there is no
obligation to protect oneself and property is really a head in the
sand situation.

: > So? Yes, unlike yourself, I have read it, and the papers and
: > discussion about it by the founders. James Madison said it
: > included "Swords, muskets, and cannon, and all the terrible
: > weapons of war!" If your mentally fit and a citizen you ARE a
: > member of that militia!
:
: Isn't that nice! And so appropriate for 2004!

Well we agree on that!

: > When asked what the Militia was, George Mason, one of the
Framers
: > of the U.S. Constitution, said, "Who are the Militia? They
consist
: > now of the whole people, except for a few public officers."
Yet we
: > also see statutes like 10 USC 311, which defines it as "all
able-
: > bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided
in
: > section 13 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or have
: > made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the
United
: > States." Some state statutes define it as "able-bodied males"
of
: > different age ranges, such as 16 through 59.
: > For a complete history of the Militia See:
: >
: > http://www.city-net.com/~davekle/what_mil.htm
: >
: > : The essential point is that NRA members own guns as toys.
: > There is nothing essential about it, your language is at the
third
: > grade level.
: >
: > : They are playthings, to be fondled and savored and collected
: > : and taken out and shown off on weekends on the firing range.
: >
: > Is that a sentence? What were you trying to say?
:
: You really didn't understand what I was trying to say? I guess
I'll
: have to word things more carefully for you in the future.

Lets see, Poor use of the connective "AND."

: > Your delusions are not germane to any rational discussion.
:
: Cover your ears, close your eyes, and hum all you want. Guns
don't
: make people safer. They are dangerous in the best of situations,
allow
: impulse to translate into deadly action much more readily than
other
: weapons, and are prone to falling into the hands of criminals.

I can only observe that you have an irrational belief and you
could never influence me to think you have a clue about what your
saying.

: > As they are now! In the Frontier days there was less crime
and
: > far fewer murders (per/100,000 population) than now, it is
much
: > more dangerous now!
:
: That might have something to do with the fact that there are far
more
: handguns now, per person, than there was back then.

Not as compared to the population as a whole. The percentage of
the population who are gun owners is only slightly higher than
when the west was "won".

: My point was that guns were tools on the frontier and in rural
: America. Guns were used for hunting and for protection. Now,
they are
: used for recreation by middle aged NRA members. Police are
forced to
: use them for protection due to their proliferation in society.
Owning
: a gun does not make you or your family safer. It makes you more
likely
: to be killed or injured by a gun.

So you really don't have a point, only a belief?
I do not accept that as a rational statement, just an observation
of deviance!

: And best regards to you too!

I see no point in continuing this, you have demonstrated an
unwillingness to learn, or to even seriously consider an
alternative to your sick beliefs.

Goodbye, stay out of high crime neighborhoods.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 20:01:25 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com
wrote in message
news:0gioe0prsrjm47uu6dpem20c6kf2vhp71t@4ax.com...
: On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:24:35 -0400, Chuck Harris
: <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:
:
: >John Larkin wrote:
: >>>I'm sure that you are wrong. Japan has the highest suicide
rate in
: >>>the world... and no legal gun ownership. How *DO* they do
it?
: >>>-Chuck Harris
: >> Well, David probably wouldn't have been able to kill the
senator with
: >> his bare hands (the old fart was BIG) so the whole thing
likely would
: >> have ended up in shouting or scuffling.
: >A piddling swing with a baseball bat to his head would do the
trick
: >just fine. We should outlaw baseball bats.
:
: I can only cite my personal experience (since nobody will
believe
: statistics when they contradict his prejudices):
: Two guys I knew, dead from self-inflicted gunshots
:
: One murder by gunshot
:
: Two killings of people I didn't know, on my block, when I lived
across
: from the Projects.

So you lived in a bad area and so everyone should be punished and
loose their rights because it upset you? Gat real, see a shrink!

: Zero murders/suicides by other means. Note zero murders/suicides
in
: households that had baseball bats, but no guns.

How would you know? Many are not reported in the media!

: Zero examples of defense of home/hearth against intruders

Again, you have the media filtering what you hear and they tend to
favor gun control so they only report when it sounds like
something that will put the spin on the story they want you to
swallow!

As I noted, this is my personal experience, not stats or news. Guns
have, so far, not done me any good. The few critters I've shot didn't
even taste as good as prime farm products, and you don't have to shoot
abalone.

Given that the situation is not going to change, physically (too many
guns out there now) or politically (no Constitutional amendment
changes any time soon) the only question is really: shall I have a gun
or guns in my own house? Will guns make my family safer or put them in
more danger? There's certainly no pat answer, but I'd certainly not
want to have a gun around in a household with kids, especially in a
suburb where violent crime is rare anyhow. Even if you get burgled,
you're probably better off letting them have the stuff than
instigating a gun battle in a house full of innocents. But that's not
a macho position to take, I realize. As an engineer, I try to make
decisions based on the best facts I can find, and not by how something
feels to my 2-million-year-old hormones.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 18:36:08 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com
wrote in message
news:4teoe05eu378qq4kbnphe312pqu9ks9or8@4ax.com...
: On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 13:55:49 -0400, Chuck Harris
: <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:
:
: >John Larkin wrote:
: > I'm sure neither of the suicides would have
: >> happened sucessfully without a gun being handy.

I notice you have a problem with the word "successfully" No
spelling checker?

Not for ng postings. You most likely understood what I meant.

John

 

[Bill Garber]

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:gqYGc.7639$yW6.5315@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
:
: "Steve Sousa" <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: news:newscache$znvh0i$lyg$1@newsfront4.netvisao.pt...
: :
: : "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in message
: : news:v5OdnfwklLcm6nbdRVn_iw@comcast.com...
: :
: : > The problem here that you are overlooking is,
: : > if they take MY guns away, that drug dealer
: : > will still have his. He doesn't get them the
: :
: : My understanding is:
: : In a life or dead situation, if you shot that dealer and
live,
: you die
: : anyway. Am i wrong?
: : Greetings Steve Sousa
:
: Yes you are! It altogether depends upon the situation and
whether
: you were in fear of your life (Police are always in fear of
their
: lives and they shoot anyone or anything that moves without
: consequence!)
:
: And if I am on the jury, you walk!

Thanks Roger. I couldn't have said it any better. )

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
Change DOT to a dot to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.708 / Virus Database: 464 - Release Date: 6/18/04

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 09:18:29 -0400, Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:



That's the theory, I guess. Fact is, the average gun owner is more
likely to kill his own kids than a burgler. Damned kids are just
around the house a lot more than burglers.

John

That silly statistic is utter BS!

Well, maybe *you* have more burglers around your house than you have
kids.

John

 

[Robert C Monsen]

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:9dooe015v25l9656b4o6psklf48j8apq1p@4ax.com...

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:50:29 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:

[snip]
If that is what you are saying, then I would counter on two fronts.
First, my belief is that private gun ownership does not, in fact,
deter crime. Neighborhoods with more guns are subject to more
crime.
If gun ownership prevented crime, that would probably not be true.

[snip]

Bob Monsen


Please cite some *facts*/*references* to support your statements
above.

http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/gun_control.htm

There is a town (in Georgia if I remember correctly) that *requires*
every citizen to own a gun. Result, burglaries went virtually to
zero.

Here, in Phoenix, where it's legal to carry, even without a permit,
if
the gun is visible, have a **much** lower crime rate than New York
City, where guns are theoretically banned.

Now we do suffer from an occasional gun battle amongst "illegals",
but, to my mind, they're expendable anyway ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Robert C Monsen]

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:_KZGc.7658$Mq.5112@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...

Random <snips> of dead portions of the thread. Not all labeled!

I see no point in continuing this, you have demonstrated an
unwillingness to learn, or to even seriously consider an
alternative to your sick beliefs.

Goodbye, stay out of high crime neighborhoods.

Thank God. Well, I'll keep my sick (sic) beliefs about gun ownership.
The truth is shown by comparison of violent crime in the US with other
countries. I'm sure you have some NRA propaganda to use to indicate
that that isn't true, but you've promised to stop, so...

Regards
Bob Monsen

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:37:47 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
<rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:9dooe015v25l9656b4o6psklf48j8apq1p@4ax.com...
[snip]
Please cite some *facts*/*references* to support your statements
above.


http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/gun_control.htm

[snip]

Sounds like your typical liberal BS to me ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Bill Garber]

"Robert C Monsen" <rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_W_Gc.42174$Oq2.24928@attbi_s52...
:
: "Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
: news:9dooe015v25l9656b4o6psklf48j8apq1p@4ax.com...
: > On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:50:29 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
: > <rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:
: >
: > [snip]
: > >If that is what you are saying, then I would counter on two
fronts.
: > >First, my belief is that private gun ownership does not, in
fact,
: > >deter crime. Neighborhoods with more guns are subject to
more
: crime.
: > >If gun ownership prevented crime, that would probably not be
true.
: > >
: > [snip]
: > >
: > >Bob Monsen
: > >
: >
: > Please cite some *facts*/*references* to support your
statements
: > above.
: >
:
: http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/gun_control.htm

I'm sorry, but your reference makes NO reference to
actual statistical reports of any kind. Please provide
a reference which makes reference to such statistics.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
Change DOT to a dot to contact me



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[Robert C Monsen]

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:82voe0duh2b44eqk7r4rpesf1d56go38fh@4ax.com...

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:37:47 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:


"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:9dooe015v25l9656b4o6psklf48j8apq1p@4ax.com...
[snip]
Please cite some *facts*/*references* to support your statements
above.


http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/gun_control.htm

[snip]

Sounds like your typical liberal BS to me ;-)

"The Economist" spouting sick democrat propaganda again... ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Steve Sousa]

"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in message
news:l6CdncRIldmT93HdRVn-hQ@comcast.com...

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:gqYGc.7639$yW6.5315@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
:
: "Steve Sousa" <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: news:newscache$znvh0i$lyg$1@newsfront4.netvisao.pt...
: :
: : "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in message
: : news:v5OdnfwklLcm6nbdRVn_iw@comcast.com...
: :
: : > The problem here that you are overlooking is,
: : > if they take MY guns away, that drug dealer
: : > will still have his. He doesn't get them the
: :
: : My understanding is:
: : In a life or dead situation, if you shot that dealer and
live,
: you die
: : anyway. Am i wrong?
: : Greetings Steve Sousa
:
: Yes you are! It altogether depends upon the situation and
whether
: you were in fear of your life (Police are always in fear of
their
: lives and they shoot anyone or anything that moves without
: consequence!)
:
: And if I am on the jury, you walk!

Thanks Roger. I couldn't have said it any better. )

I didn't explain myself correctly. I should have stressed the word "dealer".
I wasn't refering to being killed by the cops or sentenced to dead by the
legal system.
What i meant was: if you shoot a dealer you'll die because he (if he lives)
or his gang *will come* and kill you.
Am i wrong?

Greetings

Steve

 

[Robert C Monsen]

"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in message
news:m7WdncxaRuSX4nHdRVn-gQ@comcast.com...

"Robert C Monsen" <rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_W_Gc.42174$Oq2.24928@attbi_s52...
:
: "Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
: news:9dooe015v25l9656b4o6psklf48j8apq1p@4ax.com...
: > On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:50:29 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
: > <rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:
:
: > [snip]
: > >If that is what you are saying, then I would counter on two
fronts.
: > >First, my belief is that private gun ownership does not, in
fact,
: > >deter crime. Neighborhoods with more guns are subject to
more
: crime.
: > >If gun ownership prevented crime, that would probably not be
true.
:
: > [snip]
:
: > >Bob Monsen
:
:
: > Please cite some *facts*/*references* to support your
statements
: > above.
:
:
: http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/gun_control.htm

I'm sorry, but your reference makes NO reference to
actual statistical reports of any kind. Please provide
a reference which makes reference to such statistics.

If you go read the web page, you'll note that the article is just a
summary of a study, and there are footnotes to the studies referenced
down at the bottom. I'm sure the actual paper gives lots of
statistics, since it appears to be a statistical study. You may have
to go to the library to dig out the references.

Regards,
Bob Monsen

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com

 

[Bill Garber]

"Steve Sousa" <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$ba9i0i$i71$1@newsfront4.netvisao.pt...
:
: "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in message
: news:l6CdncRIldmT93HdRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
: >
: > "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
: > news:gqYGc.7639$yW6.5315@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
: > :
: > : "Steve Sousa" <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: > : news:newscache$znvh0i$lyg$1@newsfront4.netvisao.pt...
: > : :
: > : : "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in
message
: > : : news:v5OdnfwklLcm6nbdRVn_iw@comcast.com...
: > : :
: > : : > The problem here that you are overlooking is,
: > : : > if they take MY guns away, that drug dealer
: > : : > will still have his. He doesn't get them the
: > : :
: > : : My understanding is:
: > : : In a life or dead situation, if you shot that dealer and
: > live,
: > : you die
: > : : anyway. Am i wrong?
: > : : Greetings Steve Sousa
: > :
: > : Yes you are! It altogether depends upon the situation and
: > whether
: > : you were in fear of your life (Police are always in fear of
: > their
: > : lives and they shoot anyone or anything that moves without
: > : consequence!)
: > :
: > : And if I am on the jury, you walk!
: >
: > Thanks Roger. I couldn't have said it any better. )
:
: I didn't explain myself correctly. I should have stressed the
word "dealer".
: I wasn't refering to being killed by the cops or sentenced to
dead by the
: legal system.
: What i meant was: if you shoot a dealer you'll die because he
(if he lives)
: or his gang *will come* and kill you.
: Am i wrong?

You're probably right in that regard, but I wouldn't
approach them that way myself. I'd call the authorities
and point him out to them. Of course, I'd be sure they
didn't suspect me as the finger-pointer. )

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
Change DOT to a dot to contact me



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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Roger Gt]

"Steve Sousa" wrote
: "Bill Garber" wrote
: > "Roger Gt" wrote
: > : "Steve Sousa" wrote
: > : : "Bill Garber" wrote
: > : :
: > : : > The problem here that you are overlooking is,
: > : : > if they take MY guns away, that drug dealer
: > : : > will still have his. He doesn't get them the
: > : :
: > : : My understanding is:
: > : : In a life or dead situation, if you shot that dealer and
: > : : live, you die anyway. Am i wrong?
: > : : Greetings Steve Sousa
: > :
: > : Yes you are! It altogether depends upon the situation and
: > : whether you were in fear of your life (Police are always
: > : in fear of their lives and they shoot anyone or anything
: > : that moves without consequence!)
: > :
: > : And if I am on the jury, you walk!
: >
: > Thanks Roger. I couldn't have said it any better. )
:
: I didn't explain myself correctly. I should have stressed the
word
: "dealer".
: I wasn't refering to being killed by the cops
: or sentenced to dead by the legal system.
: What i meant was:
: if you shoot a dealer you'll die because he
: (if he lives)or his gang *will come* and kill you.
: Am i wrong?
: Greetings - Steve

Yes!

 

[Rich Grise]

on Tuesday 06 July 2004 06:10 pm, Robert C Monsen wrote:

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message

BTW, My brother kneecapped a burglar, so the police could pick him
up a couple blocks away. You do not always have to kill them.
The mere presence of the capability to put them down is usually
enough!

Wow! Cool! Some poor teenager gets kneecapped cause he crawled into
the wrong house looking for a TV set. Probably on disability right
now. I guess your brother feels really proud of that! Who wouldn't?

Well, it's one less sleazebag going around breaking into people's
houses and stealing and otherwise fouling their stuff.

And people miss the most fundamental point about gun control - it's
not about defending yourself against crime, albeit that's a happy
side effect - it's about seeing to it that the country isn't overrun
by some meglomaniacal tyrant. Or bureaucracy. They're chipping away
at the Constitution as we speak. It goes hand in hand with the cops
being able to demand ID from anybody they want to. This was a very
chilling news item I spotted recently.

Hitler had gun control. If the Juden had been armed, and defended
themselves from the storm troopers, I'm sure a significant number
would have been killed or wounded in firefights, but a Hell of a
lot fewer than 6,000,000 would have been gassed and otherwise
murdered in cold blood.

The Constitution is there to protect us from becoming another
Hitler's Nazi Germany, and _that's_ why the right to keep
and bear arms shall not be infringed. Well, it wasn't supposed
to.

Can't happen here? Open your eyes.
--
Cheers!
Rich