For All the Michael Moore Fans

[Bernd Felsche]

[snip way-off-topic discussion]

How about not responding to spam that's way off topic?
--
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\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus!
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/ \ and postings | to help me spread!

 

[Blair P. Houghton]

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Letter-to-Editor in today's EV Tribune (Phoenix)....

Moore film falsely depicts flight of Saudis

Michael Moore's movie, "Fahrenheit 9/ll" informs us I that,
immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, while U.S.
airspace was closed to all commercial traffic, Bush arranged for a
special flight to secretly spirit Bush's friends, Bin Laden family
members, safely out of the country.

The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until U.S.
airspace was re-opened and not at the arrangement of Bush but at the
urging of "terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission fame, who
informed them that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.

I've heard that the film doesn't say it was Bush himself, but
his administration.

I've also heard that some people think the movie claims
that the flight occurred when airspace was closed, but
they think wrong because it clearly shows the flight taking
off after it was reopened.

I'll get around to actually seeing the movie when someone
makes a charge against it that sticks.

--Blair
"Mike Moore will sue you if you
lie about his movie."

 

[Blair P. Houghton]

Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness> wrote:

Greg Pierce wrote:


You know Moore is full of shit when a Lefty like Christopher Hitchens
debunks his film. Check this out: http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

Bookmarked for use against the stupid. Thank you.

Hitchens isn't a Liberal. He's a Socialist. Only
ignorami equate the two.

--Blair
"Liberals founded America."

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 01:10:13 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
<rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:mHEGc.7219$Ud4.215@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com
wrote in message
news:fp3me09k6n47rhjbbirkkemlrhi3jog8dc@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:30:04 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net
wrote:
:
:
: >"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com
: >wrote in message
: >news:ucule0th723berupg7eo2ths1bfgtnh34e@4ax.com...
: >: On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:57:45 -0700, Greg Pierce
: ><trash.can@nospam.com
: >: wrote:
: >:
: >: >As they say, gun control isn't about guns, it's about
control.
: >: It's about people being dead, instead of merely yelled at or
: >bruised.
: >: John
:
:
: >"Gun Control" means hitting the intended target everytime!
:
: >Roger Gt
:
:
: That's the theory, I guess. Fact is, the average gun owner is
more
: likely to kill his own kids than a burglar. Damned kids are just
: around the house a lot more than burglers.
: John

That's total BS! My entire family have handles and used guns for
as far back and we have records (About 1453) and while there have
been some mishaps, (During war) no one has been killed. That
whole story about the likelihood of killing your own family
members came from the Anti-American scum who think they should
control everyone's lives. Besides guns are a lot less dangerous
than the political despots who would try to take them away!


Talk to a policeman or a fireman. All of their organizations are for
gun control. Why would that be, if gun ownership was 'helping' them?

The thing that really freaks out - and kills - cops is domestic
disputes involving guns.

John

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 02:19:01 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <b@p.h> wrote:

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
Letter-to-Editor in today's EV Tribune (Phoenix)....

Moore film falsely depicts flight of Saudis

Michael Moore's movie, "Fahrenheit 9/ll" informs us I that,
immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, while U.S.
airspace was closed to all commercial traffic, Bush arranged for a
special flight to secretly spirit Bush's friends, Bin Laden family
members, safely out of the country.

The reality is the bin Laden's didn't leave the U.S. until U.S.
airspace was re-opened and not at the arrangement of Bush but at the
urging of "terror czar" Richard Clark's of 9/11 commission fame, who
informed them that the U.S. couldn't ensure their safety.

I've heard that the film doesn't say it was Bush himself, but
his administration.

I've also heard that some people think the movie claims
that the flight occurred when airspace was closed, but
they think wrong because it clearly shows the flight taking
off after it was reopened.

But that's not what Mikey is saying in the sound-track. (I saw the
movie.)

I'll get around to actually seeing the movie when someone
makes a charge against it that sticks.

--Blair
"Mike Moore will sue you if you
lie about his movie."

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:33:16 -0700, Chris Carlen
<crobc@BOGUS_FIELD.earthlink.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:23:42 GMT, James Beck
jim@reallykillersystems.com> wrote:


In article <fp3me09k6n47rhjbbirkkemlrhi3jog8dc@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com says...

That's the theory, I guess. Fact is, the average gun owner is more
likely to kill his own kids than a burgler. Damned kids are just
around the house a lot more than burglers.

John



And where did you get that "fact"????
What a crock of crap.
If you don't like guns, fine, don't own one, but don't spout the same
old crap.



Actually, I like guns. I had a beautiful Ruger stainless
police-special revolver, but a burgler got it. I came in just as he
was leaving out the back door, figured out what was going on, and did
*not* chase him; it was full of '38 wad cutters, and I bet they hurt.
If I had entered a minute sooner, he probably would have shot me with
my gun, or maybe with his own. But it's just a fact that the US has a
murder rate that's 10x or so that of other civilized countries, and
guns are mostly responsible; it's such an easy, almost antiseptic, way
to kill. Television shows and movies mostly glorify guns and the joy
of killing with them; it's hard to find a newspaper movie section that
doesn't have a couple of guns prominently displayed in the ads. The
very fact that gun lovers admire their weapons so much tells the
story.

I hear shots in the night often, as most people who live in big cities
do. I guess we'll just have to stay used to it.

Are you *serious*? What part of the town do you live in? I'm used to
east coast segregated towns with "nice" sections, "bad" sections and
"ghettos" (the parts that are so bad they'll turn your car over and set
it on fire if you stop at a light in the daytime).

I live in Glen Park, in the southern part of San Francisco, just
across the Alemany Gap from Ocean Avenue and Visitacian Valley, where
the gangs hang out. Bayview/Hunters Point is worse, but fortunately
out of earshot. San Francisco is trying to catch up with Oakland in
the murder sweepstakes, up to about 40 so far this year.

When I lived deeper in the Mission, across from the Holly Park
projects, there were two street killings on my block in the six years
I was there, both over drugs. One was an old guy who told a drug
dealer that the residents didn't want him around, so the dealer got
annoyed and blew him away.

But in SF I find it hard to believe that a fellow of your stature would
be experiencing such "sounds."

Stature? I'm 5'7", and my hearing is still pretty good. Gunshots carry
well line-of-sight, a couple of miles across the Gap.

John

 

[Roger Gt]

"Robert C Monsen" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
: > "John Larkin" wrote
: > : "Roger Gt" wrote
: > : >"John Larkin" wrote
: > : >: Greg Pierce wrote:
: > : >: >As they say, gun control isn't about guns, it's about
: > : >: >control. It's about people being dead, instead of
: > : >: >merely yelled at or bruised. : John
: > : >
: > : >"Gun Control" means hitting the intended target everytime!
: > : >Roger Gt
: > :
: > : That's the theory, I guess. Fact is, the average gun owner
is
: > : more likely to kill his own kids than a burglar. Damned kids
: > : are just around the house a lot more than burglers. John
: >
: > That's total BS! My entire family have handled and used guns
for
: > as far back and we have records (About 1453) and while there
have
: > been some mishaps, (During war) no one has been killed. That
: > whole story about the likelihood of killing your own family
: > members came from the Anti-American scum who think they should
: > control everyone's lives. Besides guns are a lot less
dangerous
: > than the political despots who would try to take them away!
: >
:
: Talk to a policeman or a fireman. All of their organizations are
for
: gun control. Why would that be, if gun ownership was 'helping'
them?

Those are public servants, they are NOT in charge! Their opinion
is irrelevant to the constitution! Also, here in California
there are a lot of pissed off police who had their rifles
confiscated by the state. I really don't need to ask! Besides
the local NRA in full of Policemen who support the rights of all
honest citizens to own arms. They are also in the California
Pistol association. At least in the chapter I belong to.

If Those servants are in favor of violating the law they should be
fired without prejudice and possibly jailed for suborning a crime!

: > BTW, My brother kneecapped a burglar, so the police could pick
him
: > up a couple blocks away. You do not always have to kill them.
: > The mere presence of the capability to put them down is
usually
: > enough!
:
: Wow! Cool! Some poor teenager gets kneecapped cause he crawled
into
: the wrong house looking for a TV set. Probably on disability
right
: now. I guess your brother feels really proud of that! Who
wouldn't?

He does, the 47 year old drifter had been burglarizing various
places in the area for several months and the police had not been
able to catch him.
He can't run any more, but he walks ok with a cane. He and I both
use a cane, the difference is I can also own a gun, he is a
convicted felon. But you want to protect criminals don't you?
Criminals are after all the core of the Democratic party!

: > My Grandmother hated Guns, but she could bring down a dear at
200
: > yards with her carbine. And did many times. (a Model 76 pump)
My
: > Mother had a carry permit, since she was a Private
investigator.
: > She fired expert with both hands. I had a carry permit when I
: > turned 15, since I worked with my mother on many cases. My
: > Experience and training in the military convinced me that only
a
: > corrupt government has anything to fear from an armed public!
I
: > don't support such corruption!
: >
:
: An army of grandmas armed with hunting rifles is going to hold
back
: those revennooers? Unlike you, they have a 'well trained
militia',
: with m16s and Apache attack helicopters. What do you and the
grannies
: have? A few rusty hunting rifles? The whole argument, which is
used
: again and again, is silly.

Having been in the Military I can tell you that the Armed forces
of this country will not attack civilian targets in this country,
but they will repel invaders.

Your remark is the silliest thing I have ever heard. If you
really believe it, get help soon. No one allows a rifle to rust.
And I didn't suggest she would be fighting the forces of evil by
killing all the democrats in town, did I? Besides she died in
1994 at the age of 93.

: Our best weapon against those revennooers is our vote. Our best
weapon
: against crime is more opportunity for the poor, not more guns.
: Bob Monsen

I take it your poor! Since you favor welfare over freedom! I've
been there, but it only requires individual effort to move into a
better economic status, not welfare.

A vote IS violence against the government! They know it. But the
Constitution guarantees a right to own and bear arms, no
government in America has the right to revoke that!

I didn't want to restart a gun control vs. following the
Constitution discussion. Your the one who wants to violate the
Constitution!

 

[Roger Gt]

"Bernd Felsche" <bernie@innovative.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:v91sr1xpfa.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au...
: [snip way-off-topic discussion]
:
: How about not responding to spam that's way off topic?
: --
: /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western
Australia
: \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus!
: X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature
: / \ and postings | to help me spread!


Hello:

There hasn't been any spanme here. Just OT discussion!
If your not interested, you read the subject first, and use the
delete key!

 

[Roger Gt]

"Blair P. Houghton" <b@p.h> wrote in message
news:e5JGc.163595$ef4.19665@news.easynews.com...
: Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness> wrote:
: >Greg Pierce wrote:
: >> You know Moore is full of shit when a Lefty like Christopher
Hitchens
: >> debunks his film. Check this out:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
: > Bookmarked for use against the stupid. Thank you.
:
: Hitchens isn't a Liberal. He's a Socialist. Only
: ignorami equate the two.
:
: "Liberals founded America."

Yes it is true, the founders were liberal, back when it meant
something entirely different!

 

[Roger Gt]

"nan" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
:
: > He was OK with Clinton dismantling the intelligence
: > apparatus and crippling our military by inappropriate
reductions
:
: And you are OK with Bush sending young soldiers to die in an
unnecesary war,
: poorly planned, and ill-equipped?

Your choice of words indicate that you are not playing with a full
deck!

I am Okay with the over throw of a tyrant. And freeing the people
of Iraq from a dictatorship.

BTW: I design weapon systems, I know that the current military is
one hell of a lot better equipped than I was when I was in the
Army. We didn't have body armor, laser guided weapons, night
vision goggles, nor many of the "Neat" stuff that is standard
issue now!

By Family has a tradition of spending time in the service, My son
was in Desert Storm, and we have always made the best of what we
had to work with.

: > and use as "Peace Keepers" in places they should not be under
the
: > command of the UN.
: > (I didn't serve in the US ARMY to take orders
: > from the UN!)
: Well, that's good. How about Halliburton? Will you take orders
from
: Halliburton?

I don't work for Halliburton, and they do not give orders to the
military!

: > No, M. Moore, is not a "Nice" man. Nor someone to be
believed!
: You don't have to believe him. Check out the facts for yourself.
If you
: have the time. Because you won't get them on the evening news.
:


I have checked, and will continue to do so. But it will likely
not result in my trusting M. More...


G-Night all. Off to Disneyland. Better class of people there, ya
Know.

 

[Bill Garber]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com>
wrote in message
news:8unme0tihaomquaujviq44obgk50jm3m26@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:33:16 -0700, Chris Carlen
: <crobc@BOGUS_FIELD.earthlink.net> wrote:
:
: >John Larkin wrote:
: >> On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:23:42 GMT, James Beck
: >> <jim@reallykillersystems.com> wrote:
: >>
: >>
: >>>In article <fp3me09k6n47rhjbbirkkemlrhi3jog8dc@4ax.com>,
: >>>jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com says...
: >>>
: >>>>That's the theory, I guess. Fact is, the average gun owner
is more
: >>>>likely to kill his own kids than a burgler. Damned kids are
just
: >>>>around the house a lot more than burglers.
: >>>>
: >>>>John
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>
: >>>And where did you get that "fact"????
: >>>What a crock of crap.
: >>>If you don't like guns, fine, don't own one, but don't spout
the same
: >>>old crap.
: >>>
: >>
: >>
: >> Actually, I like guns. I had a beautiful Ruger stainless
: >> police-special revolver, but a burgler got it. I came in
just as he
: >> was leaving out the back door, figured out what was going
on, and did
: >> *not* chase him; it was full of '38 wad cutters, and I bet
they hurt.
: >> If I had entered a minute sooner, he probably would have
shot me with
: >> my gun, or maybe with his own. But it's just a fact that the
US has a
: >> murder rate that's 10x or so that of other civilized
countries, and
: >> guns are mostly responsible; it's such an easy, almost
antiseptic, way
: >> to kill. Television shows and movies mostly glorify guns and
the joy
: >> of killing with them; it's hard to find a newspaper movie
section that
: >> doesn't have a couple of guns prominently displayed in the
ads. The
: >> very fact that gun lovers admire their weapons so much tells
the
: >> story.
: >>
: >> I hear shots in the night often, as most people who live in
big cities
: >> do. I guess we'll just have to stay used to it.
: >
: >Are you *serious*? What part of the town do you live in? I'm
used to
: >east coast segregated towns with "nice" sections, "bad"
sections and
: >"ghettos" (the parts that are so bad they'll turn your car
over and set
: >it on fire if you stop at a light in the daytime).
: >
:
: I live in Glen Park, in the southern part of San Francisco,
just
: across the Alemany Gap from Ocean Avenue and Visitacian Valley,
where
: the gangs hang out. Bayview/Hunters Point is worse, but
fortunately
: out of earshot. San Francisco is trying to catch up with
Oakland in
: the murder sweepstakes, up to about 40 so far this year.
:
: When I lived deeper in the Mission, across from the Holly Park
: projects, there were two street killings on my block in the six
years
: I was there, both over drugs. One was an old guy who told a
drug
: dealer that the residents didn't want him around, so the dealer
got
: annoyed and blew him away.

The problem here that you are overlooking is,
if they take MY guns away, that drug dealer
will still have his. He doesn't get them the
same way I get mine. He gets them from the
underground. They get them from foreign guys
who smuggle them around where they can't be
traced.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net
Change DOT to a dot to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.708 / Virus Database: 464 - Release Date: 6/19/04

 

[xray]

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:33:16 -0700, Chris Carlen
<crobc@BOGUS_FIELD.earthlink.net> wrote:

I just don't see anything of similar seriousness here in the Bay Area,
though I have tried to steer clear of the worst parts of Oakland except
for the daytime.

Chris,

This has nothing to do with the rest of this scary thread but...

You live in the Bay Area? For some reason, with your earlier posts I got
the impression you lived in Los Alamos or somewhere in that general
area. Did I get it wrong or did you move?

Not that it matters, but my curious mind wants to know.

-Rex

 

[xray]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 03:15:59 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:

G-Night all. Off to Disneyland. Better class of people there, ya
Know.

Exactly! You are already living in fantasy land.

 

[Robert C Monsen]

"Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote in message
news:4qJGc.88371$eQ1.37788@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

"Robert C Monsen" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
: > "John Larkin" wrote
: > : "Roger Gt" wrote
: > : >"John Larkin" wrote
: > : >: Greg Pierce wrote:
: > : >: >As they say, gun control isn't about guns, it's about
: > : >: >control. It's about people being dead, instead of
: > : >: >merely yelled at or bruised. : John
: > :
: > : >"Gun Control" means hitting the intended target everytime!
: > : >Roger Gt
: > :
: > : That's the theory, I guess. Fact is, the average gun owner
is
: > : more likely to kill his own kids than a burglar. Damned kids
: > : are just around the house a lot more than burglers. John
:
: > That's total BS! My entire family have handled and used guns
for
: > as far back and we have records (About 1453) and while there
have
: > been some mishaps, (During war) no one has been killed. That
: > whole story about the likelihood of killing your own family
: > members came from the Anti-American scum who think they should
: > control everyone's lives. Besides guns are a lot less
dangerous
: > than the political despots who would try to take them away!
:
:
: Talk to a policeman or a fireman. All of their organizations are
for
: gun control. Why would that be, if gun ownership was 'helping'
them?

Those are public servants, they are NOT in charge! Their opinion
is irrelevant to the constitution! Also, here in California
there are a lot of pissed off police who had their rifles
confiscated by the state. I really don't need to ask! Besides
the local NRA in full of Policemen who support the rights of all
honest citizens to own arms. They are also in the California
Pistol association. At least in the chapter I belong to.

All moot. The point is that guns are NOT helping them in their job.

If Those servants are in favor of violating the law they should be
fired without prejudice and possibly jailed for suborning a crime!

: > BTW, My brother kneecapped a burglar, so the police could pick
him
: > up a couple blocks away. You do not always have to kill them.
: > The mere presence of the capability to put them down is
usually
: > enough!
:
: Wow! Cool! Some poor teenager gets kneecapped cause he crawled
into
: the wrong house looking for a TV set. Probably on disability
right
: now. I guess your brother feels really proud of that! Who
wouldn't?

He does, the 47 year old drifter had been burglarizing various
places in the area for several months and the police had not been
able to catch him.
He can't run any more, but he walks ok with a cane. He and I both
use a cane, the difference is I can also own a gun, he is a
convicted felon. But you want to protect criminals don't you?
Criminals are after all the core of the Democratic party!

What a thing to say. Just because people don't believe what you
believe doesn't make them criminals.

If you are scared of burgulars, buy (or design and build!) a burgular
alarm. That works (if you set it!) 99% of the time. The other 1%, a
gun probably wouldn't have helped with, because smart burgulars (who
can get around an alarm) won't break in if somebody is home. They may
take your gun case, though, cause guns are, pound for pound, one of
the more expensive things you have in your house.

: > My Grandmother hated Guns, but she could bring down a dear at
200
: > yards with her carbine. And did many times. (a Model 76 pump)
My
: > Mother had a carry permit, since she was a Private
investigator.
: > She fired expert with both hands. I had a carry permit when I
: > turned 15, since I worked with my mother on many cases. My
: > Experience and training in the military convinced me that only
a
: > corrupt government has anything to fear from an armed public!
I
: > don't support such corruption!
:
:
: An army of grandmas armed with hunting rifles is going to hold
back
: those revennooers? Unlike you, they have a 'well trained
militia',
: with m16s and Apache attack helicopters. What do you and the
grannies
: have? A few rusty hunting rifles? The whole argument, which is
used
: again and again, is silly.

Having been in the Military I can tell you that the Armed forces
of this country will not attack civilian targets in this country,
but they will repel invaders.

Ok, that means its not important for us to protect ourselves against
them by owning our (well oiled) guns? Wasn't that your justification
for owning guns? Protecting ourselves from big brother? My point was
that you aren't going to protect yourself from a soldier in a flak
jacket with an M16 by using a saturday night special or an old hunting
rifle. Its silly. Also, you aren't going to protect us from invasion.
Thats even sillier.

Your remark is the silliest thing I have ever heard. If you
really believe it, get help soon. No one allows a rifle to rust.

Ah, my stepfather let his guns rust. I'm sure lots of people do. They
just aren't very useful anymore.

And I didn't suggest she would be fighting the forces of evil by
killing all the democrats in town, did I? Besides she died in
1994 at the age of 93.

: Our best weapon against those revennooers is our vote. Our best
weapon
: against crime is more opportunity for the poor, not more guns.
: Bob Monsen

I take it your poor! Since you favor welfare over freedom! I've
been there, but it only requires individual effort to move into a
better economic status, not welfare.

Nobody said anything about welfare. However, you may have been reading
the papers recently, and noticed that wages are going down, jobs are
scarce, and most of this ends up on the heads of minorities. Did you
know that the number of blacks that are unemployed is double that of
whites? Further, did you know that crime statistics correlate quite
nicely with unemployment statistics? That was my point. Caring for the
disadvantaged is in the priviledged class' enlightened self interest.

A vote IS violence against the government! They know it. But the
Constitution guarantees a right to own and bear arms, no
government in America has the right to revoke that!

I didn't want to restart a gun control vs. following the
Constitution discussion. Your the one who wants to violate the
Constitution!

It always comes down to this. Have you ever actually read the second
ammendment, as opposed to what gets printed in those NRA handouts? If
so, which part of "a well-regulated militia" are you and your gun
going to be part of? Or, is the NRA now forming a militia? The
founders were talking about the national guard, for crissakes, state
militias. They don't make you bring your own gun anymore, and wouldn't
let you use it even if you brought it.

The essential point is that NRA members own guns as toys. They are
playthings, to be fondled and savored and collected and taken out and
shown off on weekends on the firing range. There are hunters, but
thats a game too, not required for survival. Guns are also supposedly
for protection, but that's a fantasy, not borne out by statistics or
common sense. You are far more likely to use your handgun in an
argument with your spouse, or in a traffic dispute, or in a suicide,
(or by proxy, in a crime, like John Larken's gun is probably being
used now) than you are protecting your family in any meaningful way.

Gun ownership is a harkening back to the frontier days, when guns were
actually important for survival and protection. That day is long past,
thank God and Reason.

Bob Monsen

 

[Roger Gt]

"xray" <notreally@hotmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:qu0ne05r4gvr9gonteu32dp93ok17pm037@4ax.com...
: On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 03:15:59 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net>
wrote:
:
: >G-Night all. Off to Disneyland. Better class of people there,
ya
: >Know.

: Exactly! You are already living in fantasy land.

Gee, thank you. That would be nice!

 

[Roger Gt]

"Robert C Monsen" wrote
: "Roger Gt" wrote
: > "Robert C Monsen" wrote
: > : "Roger Gt" wrote
: > : > "John Larkin" wrote
: > : > : "Roger Gt" wrote
: > : > : >"John Larkin" wrote
: > : > : >: Greg Pierce wrote:
: > : > : >: >As they say, gun control isn't about guns, it's
about
: > : > : >: >control. It's about people being dead, instead of
: > : > : >: >merely yelled at or bruised. : John
: > : > : >
: > : > : >"Gun Control" means hitting the intended target
everytime!
: > : > : >Roger Gt
: > : > :
: > : > : That's the theory, I guess. Fact is, the average gun
owner
: > is
: > : > : more likely to kill his own kids than a burglar. Damned
kids
: > : > : are just around the house a lot more than burglers. John
: > : >
: > : > That's total BS! My entire family have handled and used
guns
: > for as far back and we have records (About 1453) and while
there
: > have been some mishaps, (During war) no one has been killed.
That
: > : > whole story about the likelihood of killing your own
family
: > : > members came from the Anti-American scum who think they
should
: > : > control everyone's lives. Besides guns are a lot less
: > dangerous than the political despots who would try to take
them away!
: > :
: > : Talk to a policeman or a fireman. All of their organizations
are
: > : for gun control. Why would that be, if gun ownership was
'helping'
: > : them?
: >
: > Those are public servants, they are NOT in charge! Their
opinion
: > is irrelevant to the constitution! Also, here in California
: > there are a lot of pissed off police who had their rifles
: > confiscated by the state. I really don't need to ask!
Besides
: > the local NRA in full of Policemen who support the rights of
all
: > honest citizens to own arms. They are also in the California
: > Pistol association. At least in the chapter I belong to.
:
: All moot. The point is that guns are NOT helping them in their
job.

No! If they didn't carry, or use guns your thin argument might
(only might) carry some weight. It has nothing to do with
"Helping them" to do what they are hired to do. If guns are "Not
Helping them" do their jobs THEY should give them up for something
more helpful! BUT they can not propose (except as individuals)
any ban or confiscation of the publics arms.

: > If Those servants are in favor of violating the law they
should be
: > fired without prejudice and possibly jailed for suborning a
crime!
: >
<snip>
: > : > BTW, My brother kneecapped a burglar, so the police could
pick
: > : > him up a couple blocks away. You do not always have to
kill them.
: > : > The mere presence of the capability to put them down is
: > : >usually enough!
: > :
: > : Wow! Cool! Some poor teenager gets kneecapped cause he
crawled
: > : into the wrong house looking for a TV set. Probably on
disability
: > : right now. I guess your brother feels really proud of that!
Who
: > : wouldn't?
: >
: > He does, the 47 year old drifter had been burglarizing various
: > places in the area for several months and the police had not
been
: > able to catch him.
: > He can't run any more, but he walks ok with a cane. He and I
both
: > use a cane, the difference is I can also own a gun, he is a
: > convicted felon. But you want to protect criminals don't you?
: > Criminals are after all the core of the Democratic party!
:
: What a thing to say. Just because people don't believe what you
: believe doesn't make them criminals.

So believing that crime is a good profession doesn't make them
criminals? I agree, committing the crime does!

But You are truly dense! Democrats are the ones proposing the
lame laws to restrict private ownership, they do everything to
protect the criminal from the honest citizen who will try to
protect their property or lives by disarming them, the law however
says you can not require a criminal to register or turn in their
weapon because doing so will self incriminate them. (5th
Amendment) So the laws the Democrats propose protect the criminal
from harm while engaging in the criminal activity.

: If you are scared of burglars, buy (or design and build!) a
burglar
: alarm. That works (if you set it!) 99% of the time. The other
1%, a
: gun probably wouldn't have helped with, because smart burgulars
(who
: can get around an alarm) won't break in if somebody is home.
They may
: take your gun case, though, cause guns are, pound for pound, one
of
: the more expensive things you have in your house.

My Burglar alarm is made by Mossburg! Works fine. also use a
perimeter warning system I designed for the US military to detect
anyone approaching my home at night, or when I am away.

BTW: My gun case is buried in about three tons of concrete in the
floor of my home. And that safe does not contain my most valuable
items.

<snip>
: > Having been in the Military I can tell you that the Armed
forces
: > of this country will not attack civilian targets in this
country,
: > but they will repel invaders.
:
: Ok, that means its not important for us to protect ourselves
against
: them by owning our (well oiled) guns?
You are grasping at straws, your inability to understand is
annoying!

: Wasn't that your justification for owning guns?
No!
: Protecting ourselves from big brother?
Not the only function!
: My point was that you aren't going to protect yourself
: from a soldier in a flak jacket with an M16 by using a
: saturday night special or an old hunting rifle. Its silly.
I could, if there were only a few!

: Also, you aren't going to protect us from invasion.
That is the primary function of the militia, along with prevention
of crime, capturing and turning in criminals, and the entire list
of the duties you have never bothered to read about!

: Thats even sillier.
Like your lame position?

If I were to have to go up against a trained military force I
would use the tactics I learned in gorilla warfare classes. A
BMG50 will pierce any body armor anyway.
But the US Military is not the problem, you are!

: > Your remark is the silliest thing I have ever heard. If you
: > really believe it, get help soon. No one allows a rifle to
rust.
: Ah, my stepfather let his guns rust. I'm sure lots of people do.
They
: just aren't very useful anymore.

Two Fools! Figures!

<snip>
: > : Our best weapon against those revennooers is our vote. Our
best
: > weapon
: > : against crime is more opportunity for the poor, not more
guns.
: > : Bob Monsen
: >
: > I take it your poor! Since you favor welfare over freedom!
I've
: > been there, but it only requires individual effort to move
into a
: > better economic status, not welfare.
:
: Nobody said anything about welfare.

Actually YOU did! Indirectly, since all public servants ARE
functionally on welfare! (They receive money from the government!)
No one said anything about "revennooers" until you interjected
that bastardized word into the discussion. The language of an
literate? What the hell is it? I'm not into dialects!

: However, you may have been reading
: the papers recently, and noticed that wages are going down, jobs
are
: scarce, and most of this ends up on the heads of minorities. Did
you
: know that the number of blacks that are unemployed is double
that of
: whites? Further, did you know that crime statistics correlate
quite
: nicely with unemployment statistics? That was my point. Caring
for the
: disadvantaged is in the privileged class' enlightened self
interest.

First the Democrats support a policy that results in a reduction
in income for the average citizen, then tax the same citizen to
pay welfare to buy off criminals? You make no sense!

Keeping your gun serviceable is also in your best interests, but
you neglect self defense in favor of paying a toll to the unruly!

: > A vote IS violence against the government! They know it. But
the
: > Constitution guarantees a right to own and bear arms, no
: > government in America has the right to revoke that!
: >
: > I didn't want to restart a gun control vs. following the
: > Constitution discussion. Your the one who wants to violate
the
: > Constitution!
:
: It always comes down to this. Have you ever actually read the
second
: ammendment, as opposed to what gets printed in those NRA
handouts? If
: so, which part of "a well-regulated militia" are you and your
gun
: going to be part of? Or, is the NRA now forming a militia? The
: founders were talking about the national guard, for crissakes,
state
: militias. They don't make you bring your own gun anymore, and
wouldn't
: let you use it even if you brought it.

So? Yes, unlike yourself, I have read it, and the papers and
discussion about it by the founders. James Madison said it
included "Swords, muskets, and cannon, and all the terrible
weapons of war!" If your mentally fit and a citizen you ARE a
member of that militia!

When asked what the Militia was, George Mason, one of the Framers
of the U.S. Constitution, said, "Who are the Militia? They consist
now of the whole people, except for a few public officers." Yet we
also see statutes like 10 USC 311, which defines it as "all able-
bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in
section 13 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or have
made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United
States." Some state statutes define it as "able-bodied males" of
different age ranges, such as 16 through 59.
For a complete history of the Militia See:

http://www.city-net.com/~davekle/what_mil.htm

: The essential point is that NRA members own guns as toys.
There is nothing essential about it, your language is at the third
grade level.

: They are playthings, to be fondled and savored and collected
: and taken out and shown off on weekends on the firing range.

Is that a sentence? What were you trying to say?

: There are hunters, but
: thats a game too, not required for survival. Guns are also
supposedly
: for protection, but that's a fantasy, not borne out by
statistics or
: common sense. You are far more likely to use your handgun in an
: argument with your spouse, or in a traffic dispute, or in a
suicide,
: (or by proxy, in a crime, like John Larken's gun is probably
being
: used now) than you are protecting your family in any meaningful
way.

Your delusions are not germane to any rational discussion.

: Gun ownership is a harkening back to the frontier days, when
guns were
: actually important for survival and protection.

As they are now! In the Frontier days there was less crime and
far fewer murders (per/100,000 population) than now, it is much
more dangerous now!

: That day is long past,
: thank God and Reason.

God and Reason are strangers. God doesn't believe in reason! As
her yourself if you don't believe me!

 

[xray]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:34:08 GMT, "Roger Gt" <not@here.net> wrote:

My Burglar alarm is made by Mossburg! Works fine. also use a
perimeter warning system I designed for the US military to detect
anyone approaching my home at night, or when I am away.

Just a thought about possible efficient use of these weapons and good
test cases.

I have heard of the term "suicide by cop". You all probably have heard
of it. Some person who wants to end his life but doesn't have the
courage to actually do the deed himself (could read some Christian text
in here but I don't fer sure know about their motivation) decides to
confront the local police and provoke them to shoot him.

So, I'm thinking, you guys who keep arms on the premisses to defend
against the dangerous enemys that are surrounding you, could perform a
public service by posting your addresses on the internet. The real
robbers could avoid your place (for safety) just by checking, and the
suicide guys could make an appointment to get shot. This could take a
lot of stress off of our legally appointed law inforcement folks. It
would also give you weapon holders a chance to see if you really are up
to using your rights when it comes right down to it. And if you can
actually shoot straight when you need to.

Whaddaya think? Sounds like a win win to me.

 

[Chuck Harris]

Richard Henry wrote:

"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message
news:40eaa06f$0$3070$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...

It is kind of paradoxical, that for the first part of my life as a voter
I fought for legalized abortion, a predominantly women's issue, and for
the second part, I fought against gun control, also a predominantly
women's issue.


Why is gun control a "women's issue"?

It isn't specifically, it just seems that women tend to have less
knowledge of guns, and tend to be very susceptible to the emotional
appeals that the gun controller's use. For instance: "If it saves just
one child, it would be worth it!" Everyone should be for the idea of
saving our country's children, but when you weigh that one child's life
against the lives of the 3 million plus ordinary folks that successfully
defend themselves from criminals by using guns, that one child is,sadly,
insignificant.

Similarly, when the gun controllers tell you that our streets are
awash with machine guns that are cutting down crowds of children, lack
of knowledge of what a machine gun is might allow you to imagine that
a rifle that is similar in appearance to a "machine gun", but semi-
automatic, goes, "rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat!" When in reality, it goes,
"pop......pop.....pop!" Just like the rifle uncle Joe uses to rid his
farm of groundhogs.

So, it is not really a "women's issue", but the seemingly inexhaustible
number of women that are ignorant of guns, gun uses, and current gun laws;
who end up being swayed by the gun controller's emotional appeals, and
gross distortions of the truth make it a "women's issue," in my eyes.

-Chuck Harris

 

[Chuck Harris]

John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:57:45 -0700, Greg Pierce <trash.can@nospam.com
wrote:


As they say, gun control isn't about guns, it's about control.


It's about people being dead, instead of merely yelled at or bruised.

John

The largest mass murder that has ever occurred in the US was committed with
a jumbo jet. The second largest was committed with a bottle full of gasoline,
then, there was that truck full of fertilizer...

Knives, baseball bats, clubs, bricks, and fists have killed more people in
the US than guns ever will. Guns, however, have done an excellent job of
empowering the weak and allowing them to fend off violent attacks of all kinds...

And in warding off these attacks, most of the time, the gun is never even fired...
And when it is fired, it is usually with non fatal result.


-Chuck Harris

 

[Chuck Harris]

Jim Thompson wrote:

Maryland where? I'll be in Hagerstown, probably the week of October
10, for a family reunion.

...Jim Thompson

Damascus, just outside of Frederick.

-Chuck Harris