Wind turbines used to absorb a power surplus?...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 03:03:33 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 16:13:21 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

We need bigger wires between countries, it\'s always windy somewhere.

https://sites.suffolk.edu/xenia/2016/02/17/nikola-tesla-and-his-work-in-wireless-energy-and-power-transfer/

What about saltwater batteries to store excess power? 4 times the capacity of Lithium, and cheaper:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/13/significant-breakthrough-this-new-sea-salt-battery-has-4-times-the-capacity-of-lithium

 

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 9:33:09 PM UTC-7, Rod Speed wrote:

On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 11:13:56 +1000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 04:27:01 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:


The Silicon Valley Bank didnt implode because they exploited the
loosened regulations.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3898389-silicon-valley-signature-
banks-lobbied-hard-to-loosen-banking-rules/
Sure, but the loosened rules werent the reason that bank imploded.

They went bust because they were stupid enough to invest
their assets in long term bonds which imploded in value when
the Fed increased the interest rates.

That\'s not the complete story; customers withdrew megamillions
in a short time, in a run on the bank. Arguably, a bigger bank, or
one with less volatile clients, would have survived.

The looser regulations made the clients nervous, it appears.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 31-Mar-23 12:39 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:39:21 -0000, <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much
power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra
power.  Is this really true?  Aren\'t there plenty of power stations
they can just turn down a bit?  Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

If there is a risk of overproduction due to wind turbines, simply stop
some wind turbines. Wind turbines must have brakes so that they can be
stopped during a strong storm (about 25 m/s) to avoid damaging the
turbine. Of course greenies will complain about stopping renewable
production, but who cares .

Why can\'t they make the generator exert more torque so it slows to an
acceptable RPM?

Other things being equal, if the torque goes up, so does the power output.

If you want to increase the torque to limit rotor speed, but at the same
time there\'s problem with wind power overproduction, then you\'re caught
between a rock and a hard place.

Sylvia.

 

[Bob F]

On 4/9/2023 6:50 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 31-Mar-23 12:39 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:39:21 -0000, <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much
power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra
power.  Is this really true?  Aren\'t there plenty of power stations
they can just turn down a bit?  Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

If there is a risk of overproduction due to wind turbines, simply stop
some wind turbines. Wind turbines must have brakes so that they can be
stopped during a strong storm (about 25 m/s) to avoid damaging the
turbine. Of course greenies will complain about stopping renewable
production, but who cares .

Why can\'t they make the generator exert more torque so it slows to an
acceptable RPM?


Other things being equal, if the torque goes up, so does the power output.

If you want to increase the torque to limit rotor speed, but at the same
time there\'s problem with wind power overproduction, then you\'re caught
between a rock and a hard place.

Maybe that\'s why the have variable pitch blades, you think?

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 10/04/2023 02:50, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 31-Mar-23 12:39 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:39:21 -0000, <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much
power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra
power.  Is this really true?  Aren\'t there plenty of power stations
they can just turn down a bit?  Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

If there is a risk of overproduction due to wind turbines, simply stop
some wind turbines. Wind turbines must have brakes so that they can be
stopped during a strong storm (about 25 m/s) to avoid damaging the
turbine. Of course greenies will complain about stopping renewable
production, but who cares .

Why can\'t they make the generator exert more torque so it slows to an
acceptable RPM?


Other things being equal, if the torque goes up, so does the power output.

If you want to increase the torque to limit rotor speed, but at the same
time there\'s problem with wind power overproduction, then you\'re caught
between a rock and a hard place.

Well that\'s unreliables for you.

Half the time they ain\'t producing worth a damn, and all your expensive
infrastructure is sitting there idle, and the rest of the time they are
producing so much the infrastructure cant handle the peak flows, so you
pay them to shut them down

> Sylvia.

--
\"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them.\"

 

[Martin Brown]

On 09/04/2023 14:45, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 05:35:40 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:43:35 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:14:23 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 15:33:34 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:10:55 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 10:49, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 09:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home.

Possibly a bit more for both gas and electricity but around the right
ball park figure.

It\'s always been the case that they had to replace non-smart meters
every so often - at one time I think the target was every 10 years. I
had a friend who worked for BG and one of his jobs was to organise
routine meter replacements (long before smart meters). When it became my
turn to have my gas meter replaced I somehow managed to get an
appointment that suited me

And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Shouldn\'t that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.
It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.

Of course it should be, along with all windmills, solar panels and any
feed in tarriffs.

Your confusion arises from the fact they you think they are working for
you. Government is not your friend, or your servant, It\'s your enemy,
and wants to be your master. Because if it isn\'t it fears you might get
rid of it.

Our regulated private utilities here are excellent. Some towns have
taken over local distribution, so are getting less excellent.

Privatization = competition = cheap. Government controlled = jobs for the boys = expensive.

Our power utilities aren\'t competitive - that wouldn\'t make sense -

Why on earth do you believe it wouldn\'t make sense?

Because it\'s impractical to run multiple distribution pipes and wires
in a city.

You don\'t have to run multiple cabling systems.

The UK did it by splitting the distribution network off from generating
completely. They effectively rent usage of the national distribution
grid network proportionate to how much power they put into it.

The producers of electricity then have to compete to supply their
electricity to the National Grid. UK system is deeply flawed because the
price they get paid is linked to the cost of gas turbine generation (and
not a cost to produce plus some margin).

This has produced some enormous windfall profits for real energy
generation companies and conversely large scale bankruptcies of
deregulated energy box shifters who had no clue what they were doing.
Basically they were destroyed by fixed price retail sale contracts and
wholesale gas prices more than doubling in a very short period of time.

A local utility can seek competitive sources of gas and electricity if
large-scale transmission permits.

In the UK, I think they are competing. The national grid will buy the cheapest source it can. Expensive power sources are only used when they are really needed. Eg. wind power is always on, gas is switched off at times of low load. A gas power station which sells power cheaper will be turned on first.

but are regulated monopolies. But they are very good.

Nothing regulated by the government is good.

Some things here are excellent.

Certainly you would never do it the way the UK does unless you were out
of your mind.

Who wants to buy their electricity from a company named \"Octopus\"
(genuine name - I\'m not making it up). \"Bulb\" went pop!

A full list of all the deregulated and clueless suppliers that have gone
bust in the UK up to Feb 2022 is here - massive increase in the daily
standing charge to pay for bailing them out.

https://www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/energy/failed-uk-energy-suppliers-update/

Loads more have gone bust since including a couple that were \"Too big to
fail\" which resulted in a very expensive government bail out.

--
Martin Brown

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 10/04/2023 12:02, Martin Brown wrote:

On 09/04/2023 14:45, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 05:35:40 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:43:35 +0100, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:14:23 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 15:33:34 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:10:55 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 10:49, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 09:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install
smart
meters into each home.

Possibly a bit more for both gas and electricity but around the
right
ball park figure.

It\'s always been the case that they had to replace non-smart meters
every so often - at one time I think the target was every 10
years. I
had a friend who worked for BG and one of his jobs was to organise
routine meter replacements (long before smart meters). When it
became my
turn to have my gas meter replaced I somehow managed to get an
appointment that suited me

   And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Shouldn\'t that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.
It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.

Of course it should be, along with all windmills, solar panels
and any
feed in tarriffs.

Your confusion arises from the fact they you think they are
working for
you. Government is not your friend, or your servant, It\'s your
enemy,
and wants to be your master. Because if it isn\'t it fears you
might get
rid of it.

Our regulated private utilities here are excellent. Some towns have
taken over local distribution, so are getting less excellent.

Privatization = competition = cheap.  Government controlled = jobs
for the boys = expensive.

Our power utilities aren\'t competitive - that wouldn\'t make sense -

Why on earth do you believe it wouldn\'t make sense?

Because it\'s impractical to run multiple distribution pipes and wires
in a city.

You don\'t have to run multiple cabling systems.

The UK did it by splitting the distribution network off from generating
completely. They effectively rent usage of the national distribution
grid network proportionate to how much power they put into it.

The producers of electricity then have to compete to supply their
electricity to the National Grid. UK system is deeply flawed because the
price they get paid is linked to the cost of gas turbine generation (and
not a cost to produce plus some margin).

Well no it isnt. Gas is back to pre war prices. Bu electricity is now
about 10 times what it used to be.
Clearly it is linked to the cost of renewables,

This has produced some enormous windfall profits for real energy
generation companies and conversely large scale bankruptcies of
deregulated energy box shifters who had no clue what they were doing.
Basically they were destroyed by fixed price retail sale contracts and
wholesale gas prices more than doubling in a very short period of time.

A local utility can seek competitive sources of gas and electricity if
large-scale transmission permits.

In the UK, I think they are competing.  The national grid will buy
the cheapest source it can.   Expensive power sources are only used
when they are really needed.  Eg. wind power is always on, gas is
switched off at times of low load.  A gas power station which sells
power cheaper will be turned on first.

but are regulated monopolies. But they are very good.

Nothing regulated by the government is good.

Some things here are excellent.

Certainly you would never do it the way the UK does unless you were out
of your mind.

The UK grid system worked extremely well before the EU \'renewable
obligation\' pushed reliable low cost generation offf te grid in favour
of overpriced subsidised unreliable windmills and solar panels. Then
costs spiralled out of control as people were not investing in capacity
that windmills would elbow off the grid when the wind blew.
If your CCGT plant can\'t guarantee a high capacity factor base load
demand, then there is no point in building it. You build OCGT instead
which burns more gas, but is less capital cost to build, knowing that
when its needed it will command exorbitant prices.

Naturally this means that he effective result of adding renewables is to
keep the gas burn and carbon emissions about the same, but simply treble
the electricity price. Which is exactly what has happened.

Who wants to buy their electricity from a company named \"Octopus\"
(genuine name - I\'m not making it up). \"Bulb\" went pop!

A full list of all the deregulated and clueless suppliers that have gone
bust in the UK up to Feb 2022 is here - massive increase in the daily
standing charge to pay for bailing them out.

https://www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/energy/failed-uk-energy-suppliers-update/

Loads more have gone bust since including a couple that were \"Too big to
fail\" which resulted in a very expensive government bail out.

--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don\'t think.

Adolf Hitler

 

[Vir Campestris]

On 08/04/2023 16:54, John Larkin wrote:

Since wind and solar power are free, a few per cent transmission
efficiency should be fine.

Please confirm that you were being sarcastic?

Some people might believe you.

(I\'ve just been reading about the Chinese steel used in wind turbine
towers. The Chinese steel plants produce 4 tonnes of CO2 for one of
steel, twice as high as the UK plant. But it\'s cheaper...)

Andy

 

[none]

In article <u10qc9$25eh6$1@dont-email.me>,
Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

You don\'t have to run multiple cabling systems.
You can\'t practically speaking.

The UK did it by splitting the distribution network off from generating
completely. They effectively rent usage of the national distribution
grid network proportionate to how much power they put into it.

That makes the distribution grid a natural monopoly.
Is the government is not in control of that, the company that owns it
can screw the rest of the economy over, no end.
The theoretical possibility is that it has gotten so bad, that
investment in a parallel grid pays off.
In those scenario\'s the economy at large is bound to suffer.

--
Martin Brown

Groetjes Albert
--
Don\'t praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn\'t make spring.
You must not say \"hey\" before you have crossed the bridge. Don\'t sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

 

[Ed P]

On 4/10/2023 7:12 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
margin).

Well no it isnt. Gas is back to pre war prices. Bu electricity is now
about 10 times what it used to be.
Clearly it is linked to the cost of renewables,

Did your ass hurt when you pulled that number out of it? Only changes
here were due to the natural gas spikes so some areas saw 10%.

 

[Fredxx]

On 09/04/2023 10:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 09/04/2023 02:08, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 15:28:08 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

Then I can only presume you are in denial that there are both poor male
and female drivers yet only men will only ever be F1 Champions.

Too many corners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Muldowney

With power steering, and brakes there is no earthly reason why a woman
F1 champion should not exist.
Pat Moss and Michelle Mouton did it in rallying, which has lots of corners.

There is more to F1 racing than turning a steering wheel. There are some
pretty immense G-forces that act on the body.

The important aspect of racing is that only the best of the best get to
drive in a professional capacity. It just so happens that on the whole
they are men?

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 8:57:59 PM UTC+10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 10/04/2023 02:50, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 31-Mar-23 12:39 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:39:21 -0000, <upsid...@downunder.com> wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

<snipped the half-witted nonsense>

Why can\'t they make the generator exert more torque so it slows to an
acceptable RPM?

Wind turbines have variable pitch blades so the torque can be adjusted while leaving the RPM costant

Other things being equal, if the torque goes up, so does the power output.

If you want to increase the torque to limit rotor speed, but at the same
time there\'s problem with wind power overproduction, then you\'re caught
between a rock and a hard place.

Well that\'s unreliables for you.

The are intermittent. rather than unreliable.

Half the time they ain\'t producing worth a damn, and all your expensive
infrastructure is sitting there idle, and the rest of the time they are
producing so much the infrastructure cant handle the peak flows, so you
pay them to shut them down,

That\'s what grid scale batteries and pumped hydro storage are there to deal with.

The Natural Philosopher doesn\'t know about any of that. He\'s as thick as Commander Kinsey.

> \"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them.\"

Feminists are in the business of letting women do whatever they want to. Only a half-wit like the Natural Philosopher would imagine that they would try to stop any woman doing anything. He\'s probably projecting.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Martin Brown]

On 10/04/2023 15:11, albert wrote:

In article <u10qc9$25eh6$1@dont-email.me>,
Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
You don\'t have to run multiple cabling systems.
You can\'t practically speaking.


The UK did it by splitting the distribution network off from generating
completely. They effectively rent usage of the national distribution
grid network proportionate to how much power they put into it.

That makes the distribution grid a natural monopoly.

It is a de facto monopoly in any geographic region just like the water
and sewerage pipes in the ground and the gas pipes in the ground (and
the railway tracks for that matter). The latter in the UK is completely
FUBAR with Network Rail presiding over the gradual decline and
disintegration of our Victorian era infrastructure.

Different train franchises run trains over the same tracks and the
tickets are specific to each brand - the whole thing is certifiable.

Worst offenders are the West coast mainline operator Avanti and worse
still TransPennine who have discovered a cunning scheme of cancelling
vast numbers of trains at 21:59 the day before they are due to run!
(apparently a loophole means it doesn\'t count against them)

https://www.ft.com/content/13eaa9c1-2425-45cd-8592-35b43925adb0

Our government views privatisation as the solution to everything!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-07/avanti-gets-a-six-month-west-coast-contract-despite-uk-rail-chaos?leadSource=uverify%20wall

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/call-for-transpennine-express-to-26018609

Talk about rewarding failure

Is the government is not in control of that, the company that owns it
can screw the rest of the economy over, no end.
The theoretical possibility is that it has gotten so bad, that
investment in a parallel grid pays off.
In those scenario\'s the economy at large is bound to suffer.

It is already on it\'s way to hell in a handcart. Fuel is coming down in
price again so they might upgrade to a motor vehicle...

--
Martin Brown

 

[Scott Lurndal]

Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> writes:

On 4/10/2023 7:12 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
margin).

Well no it isnt. Gas is back to pre war prices. Bu electricity is now
about 10 times what it used to be.
Clearly it is linked to the cost of renewables,


Did your ass hurt when you pulled that number out of it? Only changes
here were due to the natural gas spikes so some areas saw 10%.

He\'s in the UK, where power prices have gone up significantly.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9491/

 

[Fredxx]

On 09/04/2023 02:00, Rod Speed wrote:

On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 10:42:31 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 08/04/2023 19:23, Rod Speed wrote:
On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 00:31:28 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 08/04/2023 05:00, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 03:50:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 31/03/2023 03:03, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 16:13:21 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

We need bigger wires between countries, it\'s always windy
somewhere.

Bless!

https://sites.suffolk.edu/xenia/2016/02/17/nikola-tesla-and-his-work-in-wireless-energy-and-power-transfer/

Let\'s have a poll of how high  the Commander\'s IQ is. I\'ll push at
75.

 145 actually.

That\'s a blatant lie on so many counts. Your behaviour is also more
akin to a 10 year old vying for attention.
 There are some with 145 that behave like that.

When you use LTSpice and post here your netlist to predict the
outcome to your diode in series with a transformer issue then I will
accept your IQ may be over 100.

Until then 75 sounds a more accurate appraisal.
 No one with 75 can manage an honors degree in physics. .

No one with an \"honors degree in physics\" would ever ask some of the
questions he\'s asked.

Bullshit. Plenty of those involved in theoreticall physics would.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Mr Hucker would probably have spelled \"honor\" like that in any
unsubstantiated claim of his.

Trivial to check if that certificate he posted the photo of is a fake or
not.

A quick Google has failed to come up with his certificate. Any idea
where it\'s posted?

 

[Ed P]

On 4/10/2023 10:40 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> writes:
On 4/10/2023 7:12 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
margin).

Well no it isnt. Gas is back to pre war prices. Bu electricity is now
about 10 times what it used to be.
Clearly it is linked to the cost of renewables,


Did your ass hurt when you pulled that number out of it? Only changes
here were due to the natural gas spikes so some areas saw 10%.


He\'s in the UK, where power prices have gone up significantly.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9491/

Hefty, but not the 10X claimed.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 2:00:28 PM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 03:50:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid..invalid> wrote:
On 31/03/2023 03:03, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 16:13:21 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

We need bigger wires between countries, it\'s always windy somewhere.

Bless!

https://sites.suffolk.edu/xenia/2016/02/17/nikola-tesla-and-his-work-in-wireless-energy-and-power-transfer/

Let\'s have a poll of how high the Commander\'s IQ is. I\'ll push at 75.

145 actually.

Clive Sinclair\'s IQ was high enough to let him join Mensa - actually he was chairman of British Mensa for ages.

It didn\'t stop him from doing a lot of very stupid things - and joining Mensa was one of them. It\'s a society for people who score well on IQ tests, but can\'t do anything intelligent enough to let them join any kind of society for people who have done something useful with their \"intelligence\".

Jim Thompson scored well enough on IQ tests to qualify for Mensa but had enough sense to bail out when he met the dweebs who were members.

If Commander Kinsey did score that well, it\'s just more proof that IQ tests throw an appreciable number of false positives.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bev]

On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 11:48:22 -0400, Ed P wrote:

On 4/10/2023 10:40 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.xxx> writes:
On 4/10/2023 7:12 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
margin).

Well no it isnt. Gas is back to pre war prices. Bu electricity is now
about 10 times what it used to be.
Clearly it is linked to the cost of renewables,


Did your ass hurt when you pulled that number out of it? Only changes
here were due to the natural gas spikes so some areas saw 10%.


He\'s in the UK, where power prices have gone up significantly.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9491/

Hefty, but not the 10X claimed.

Wholesale electricity futures di peak at around 10x jan 2020 prices for a
very short while but are currently around 3x in UK

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 10/04/2023 15:18, Ed P wrote:

On 4/10/2023 7:12 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
margin).

Well no it isnt. Gas is back to pre war prices. Bu electricity is now
about 10 times what it used to be.
Clearly it is linked to the cost of renewables,


Did your ass hurt when you pulled that number out of it?  Only changes
here were due to the natural gas spikes so some areas saw 10%.

I am paying 50p a unit.
I used to pay 5p 20 years ago and pre renewables it was around 12p

--
\"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women\"

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 10/04/2023 15:18, Ed P wrote:

On 4/10/2023 7:12 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
margin).

Well no it isnt. Gas is back to pre war prices. Bu electricity is now
about 10 times what it used to be.
Clearly it is linked to the cost of renewables,


Did your ass hurt when you pulled that number out of it?  Only changes
here were due to the natural gas spikes so some areas saw 10%.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/rngwhhdm.htm
https://www.statista.com/statistics/589765/average-electricity-prices-uk/
Current electricity prices have NOTHING to do with gas prices
So you can stuck those charts up yiur arse and have an orgasm

--
\"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women\"