Wind turbines used to absorb a power surplus?...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:43:35 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:14:23 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 15:33:34 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:10:55 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 10:49, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 09:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home.

Possibly a bit more for both gas and electricity but around the right
ball park figure.

It\'s always been the case that they had to replace non-smart meters
every so often - at one time I think the target was every 10 years.. I
had a friend who worked for BG and one of his jobs was to organise
routine meter replacements (long before smart meters). When it became my
turn to have my gas meter replaced I somehow managed to get an
appointment that suited me

And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Shouldn\'t that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.
It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.

Of course it should be, along with all windmills, solar panels and any
feed in tarriffs.

Your confusion arises from the fact they you think they are working for
you. Government is not your friend, or your servant, It\'s your enemy,
and wants to be your master. Because if it isn\'t it fears you might get
rid of it.

Our regulated private utilities here are excellent. Some towns have
taken over local distribution, so are getting less excellent.

Privatization = competition = cheap. Government controlled = jobs for the boys = expensive.

Our power utilities aren\'t competitive - that wouldn\'t make sense -

Why on earth do you believe it wouldn\'t make sense? In the UK, I think they are competing. The national grid will buy the cheapest source it can. Expensive power sources are only used when they are really needed. Eg. wind power is always on, gas is switched off at times of low load. A gas power station which sells power cheaper will be turned on first.

> but are regulated monopolies. But they are very good.

Nothing regulated by the government is good.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 12:49:11 +0100, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

In message <op.12rqvq2nmvhs6z@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
CK1@nospam.com> writes

I kill 2 mice per day with 7000 volts.

Every man needs a hobby.

Hardly a hobby. It\'s removing vermin which carry disease.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 15:10:39 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 11:18:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 06:56:27 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

On 2023-03-20, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/03/2023 00:27, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Domestic cats kill 2.4 billion birds annually. Windmills account for
1 in 4000 of the annual total, maybe half a million max.

To make that a fair comparison you have to use the figures for kills per
cat and kills per windmill.

Many fewer

Posh twatt. Use less.

wind turbines are needed per household than cats.

Cats are not needed at all.

Wives aren\'t either.

That is true. But doing without a wife is like doing without a TV.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 15:27:26 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 11:11:23 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:40:26 -0000, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Mar 2023 11:11:15 +1100, Sylvia Else
sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:

On 19-Mar-23 9:07 am, Bob F wrote:
On 3/18/2023 2:46 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19-Mar-23 3:31 am, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:17:53 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 18-Mar-23 8:39 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much power
on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra power. Is
this really true? Aren\'t there plenty of power stations they can just
turn down a bit? Take your foot off the gas so to speak?

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home. And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building
new wind farms?

Coal fired power stations cannot change their output rapidly, and
can be
willing to pay for the right to generate in preference to reducing
output.

So the windfarm notion is not entirely implausible. However, wind
turbines use electronics to match the turbine output to the grid
frequency, and it seems unlikely that it\'s designed to operate in
reverse for the relatively rare occasions that that would be used.

On balance, then, I doubt that using wind turbines as fans is real.

Sylvia.

If a steam plant makes too much power until it can throttle down, and
nobody wants the power, why not dump steam into the condenser?


I don\'t know what the technical issue is, but here in Australia, it\'s
not especially unusual for the spot electricity price to go negative
at night when coal plants don\'t want to reduce their output. If they
had another solution that didn\'t involve spending money, I\'m sure
they\'d use it.

That would be really nice for charging your car.



Though of course, the end user never sees a cent of this.

Sylvia.

Darn. You had me excited there. I was going to run an extension cord
from Australia to Maryland.

At what voltage?

With a goofy plug on one end.

A what?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 18:42:58 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 11:17:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

A cat is simply not strong enough to do that. Try a horse.

https://berloga-workshop.com/blog/71-bygul-and-trjegul.html
http://www.germanicmythology.com/original/FreyjasCats.html

Any real ones? What the tractive power of a Mancoon?

I feel tractive should be a word, and my newsreader accepted it, but I\'ve never heard it used.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 06:07:41 +1000, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 19:14:43 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 07/04/2023 18:00, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 15:34:52 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 07/04/2023 15:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 13:27:56 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 06/04/2023 15:56, John Larkin wrote:

snip

People who use female-derived insults don\'t like women. I really
like
women.

Does that mean you don\'t respect women\'s failings?

I like gutsy people, people who have ideas and take risks, male and
female but especially female, because they are more fun to celibrate
with. People who take risks often fail... or they are holding back.

I was watching a stupid movie that involved some gambling at
roulette.
If you bet on red or white, there is a 50:50 apparent risk, but there
is a house cut slot that reduces the probable return below unity.

If you design a lot of things, and half are commercial failures
(about
what mine are) you lose your stake half the time, but the others pay
off 10:1, or sometimes 1000:1.


Perceived insults and facts overlap. Monthly grouchiness is one
example.

I never noticed that, but you prefer to be grouchy and downer all the
time.

You\'ve never had a female boss, or if you had only dreamt of getting
into her knickers.

Don\'t be dumb and coarse. I\'ve had three lady bosses and only got
physically close to one, once, before she was my boss.

I\'ve worked for a few. My experiences are varied with one who at times
was a tyrant.

I now work for my younger daughter. She runs the businness and I
doodle schematics.

Sounds a nice arrangement.

Women and men have different attributes, some very obvious, others
where
we\'re obliged to be in denial that the differences might exist.

I also like women. Occasionally even love them.


So many guys want women and don\'t like them.

In any class of people, the normal distribution is enormous, so one
can\'t stereotype abilities beyond obvious things like the ability to
bear children.

Women seem keen to stereotype men.

Irony alert!

When it comes to risk, stereotypes
abound for good reason. Similarly some forms of aggression but not all.

Stereotypes are usually the result of tribalism,

Yes.

> not anything factual.

Wrong with work and skills stereotypes.

That\'s why people will fight and riot over silly stuff like \"our\"
sports teams, who are really just jocks for hire.

Emotion most always beats thinking.

Wrong with work and skills stereotypes.

There is a tendency for guys to do electronic design. I\'ve only met a
few serious female EEs, but they are awesome. I don\'t know if the
statistics there are genetic; maybe so.

I have yet to meet one. I have met a number competent female software
and mechanical design engineers.

I\'ve put it down to the ability to visualise things that aren\'t visual,
which perhaps ties into spacial awareness. But anyone highlighting these
sorts of differences is of course a misogynist. On the other hand we
could just accept the differences on a broader, more general scale.

I know guys who don\'t know which end of a screwdriver to grab. One has
a PhD in Engineering Mechanics.

Sure, but there are FAR more women that can\'t even
do something as basic as change a flat tire on a car.

A female mate of mine believes she is very capable
just because she can drill a whole in the back of a
media cabinet to put the cables thru.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 08:20:49 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 07/04/2023 21:07, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 19:14:43 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 07/04/2023 18:00, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 15:34:52 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 07/04/2023 15:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 13:27:56 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 06/04/2023 15:56, John Larkin wrote:

snip

People who use female-derived insults don\'t like women. I really
like
women.

Does that mean you don\'t respect women\'s failings?

I like gutsy people, people who have ideas and take risks, male and
female but especially female, because they are more fun to celibrate
with. People who take risks often fail... or they are holding back.

I was watching a stupid movie that involved some gambling at
roulette.
If you bet on red or white, there is a 50:50 apparent risk, but
there
is a house cut slot that reduces the probable return below unity.

If you design a lot of things, and half are commercial failures
(about
what mine are) you lose your stake half the time, but the others pay
off 10:1, or sometimes 1000:1.


Perceived insults and facts overlap. Monthly grouchiness is one
example.

I never noticed that, but you prefer to be grouchy and downer all
the
time.

You\'ve never had a female boss, or if you had only dreamt of getting
into her knickers.

Don\'t be dumb and coarse. I\'ve had three lady bosses and only got
physically close to one, once, before she was my boss.

I\'ve worked for a few. My experiences are varied with one who at times
was a tyrant.

I now work for my younger daughter. She runs the businness and I
doodle schematics.

Sounds a nice arrangement.

Women and men have different attributes, some very obvious, others
where
we\'re obliged to be in denial that the differences might exist.

I also like women. Occasionally even love them.


So many guys want women and don\'t like them.

In any class of people, the normal distribution is enormous, so one
can\'t stereotype abilities beyond obvious things like the ability to
bear children.

Women seem keen to stereotype men.
Irony alert!

When it comes to risk, stereotypes
abound for good reason. Similarly some forms of aggression but not all.
Stereotypes are usually the result of tribalism, not anything factual.
That\'s why people will fight and riot over silly stuff like \"our\"
sports teams, who are really just jocks for hire.
Emotion most always beats thinking.


There is a tendency for guys to do electronic design. I\'ve only met a
few serious female EEs, but they are awesome. I don\'t know if the
statistics there are genetic; maybe so.

I have yet to meet one. I have met a number competent female software
and mechanical design engineers.

I\'ve put it down to the ability to visualise things that aren\'t visual,
which perhaps ties into spacial awareness. But anyone highlighting
these
sorts of differences is of course a misogynist. On the other hand we
could just accept the differences on a broader, more general scale.
I know guys who don\'t know which end of a screwdriver to grab. One has
a PhD in Engineering Mechanics.


Hmm, I think you\'re missing the point. There are both men and women who
aren\'t competent at anything. But in order to excel in a trade the
subject needs to come naturally with all the natural attributes. I would
suggest that more men have the attributes required for electronic design
than women,

Yes.

in much the same way women are more likely to enter a profession like
medicine and do well.

Not convinced about that with doctors and specialists.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 08/04/2023 22:32, SH wrote:

On 08/04/2023 21:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/04/2023 16:54, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 05:02:14 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 03:03:33 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 16:13:21 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

We need bigger wires between countries, it\'s always windy somewhere.

https://sites.suffolk.edu/xenia/2016/02/17/nikola-tesla-and-his-work-in-wireless-energy-and-power-transfer/

Should be possible, just pick a wavelength humans don\'t absorb, then
make the equivalent of a microwave link like they do for
communications, but fucking powerful.

Since wind and solar power are free, a few per cent transmission
efficiency should be fine.

ROFLMAO!

Coal and oil and gas are free too.
The cost is in extracting them and turning them into electricity.




and the conversion efficiency of solar photovoltaic panels converting
photons to electrons is only about 20%....

In the end that isn\'t really an issue. The issue is how many units of
energy it takes to make a system that will deliver you one unit of
electricity back, reliably, over its lifetime.

It it\'s more than one, it isn\'t sustainable. It its more than 0.1, it
likely isn\'t really sustainable either, as it doesn\'t leave much energy
left to do anything but plant windmills and solar panels.


--
\"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there\'s a nuclear attack it\'ll
look exactly the same afterwards.\"

Billy Connolly

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 09/04/2023 02:08, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 15:28:08 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

Then I can only presume you are in denial that there are both poor male
and female drivers yet only men will only ever be F1 Champions.

Too many corners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Muldowney

With power steering, and brakes there is no earthly reason why a woman
F1 champion should not exist.
Pat Moss and Michelle Mouton did it in rallying, which has lots of corners.

--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 31-Mar-23 1:54 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 00:19:59 -0000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 21-Mar-23 7:42 am, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 18:34:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 11:39, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much
power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra
power.  Is this really true?  Aren\'t there plenty of power
stations they can just turn down a bit?  Take your foot off the
gas so to speak?

If there is a risk of overproduction due to wind turbines, simply stop
some wind turbines. Wind turbines must have brakes so that they can be
stopped during a strong storm (about 25 m/s) to avoid damaging the
turbine. Of course greenies will complain about stopping renewable
production, but who cares .

We do, because they still get paid to stop generating as if they had
been generating.


In practice, district heating companies are installing electrically
heated boilers to heat district heating water when there is an
overproduction of wind energy and hence the selectivity price drops
towards zero, thus saving on coal/oil/gas/biofuel during
overproduction.

No they are not.

Our local district heating company just installed an electrically
heated boiler to heat water, when the electric prices drops towards
zero due to wind overproduction. The claim is that by doing so, 16,000
tons of emissions are reduced.

In areas with mainly cooling loads, wind and solar overproduction can
be used to cool water in advance for air conditioning.

But no one does

They are simply stupid, if they don\'t.

It is in the wind farm company best interest to avoid electric prices
falling to zero or negative. The wind farm company should try to
\'invent\' ways that their customers could use this overproduction in
some way and get at least a cent or two instead of zero.
.

They should be required to provide the storage systems needed to
compensate for their intermittency. At the moment, they get a free ride
by being able to sell power when they can produce it, and not when they
can\'t.

A wind turbine has a really tall post in the middle, could a weight or
fluid not be pumped up there?

A one tonne block has a weight of 9800 Newtons, so lifting it through
one metre takes 9800 Joules, which is 0.0027 kWh.

And that\'s a problem, if you want to use lifting mass to store energy,
because you need to lift a lot of mass through some reasonable distance
to store a worthwhile amount.

For example lifting a thousand tons through 100 metres, stores less than
300 kWh.

One thousand tonnes is already multiples of the mass that a typical wind
turbine tower is designed to support. It\'s just not practical

Sylvia.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 09/04/2023 10:59, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 31-Mar-23 1:54 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 00:19:59 -0000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 21-Mar-23 7:42 am, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 18:34:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 11:39, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much
power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra
power.  Is this really true?  Aren\'t there plenty of power
stations they can just turn down a bit?  Take your foot off the
gas so to speak?

If there is a risk of overproduction due to wind turbines, simply
stop
some wind turbines. Wind turbines must have brakes so that they
can be
stopped during a strong storm (about 25 m/s) to avoid damaging the
turbine. Of course greenies will complain about stopping renewable
production, but who cares .

We do, because they still get paid to stop generating as if they had
been generating.


In practice, district heating companies are installing electrically
heated boilers to heat district heating water when there is an
overproduction of wind energy and hence the selectivity price drops
towards zero, thus saving on coal/oil/gas/biofuel during
overproduction.

No they are not.

Our local district heating company just installed an electrically
heated boiler to heat water, when the electric prices drops towards
zero due to wind overproduction. The claim is that by doing so, 16,000
tons of emissions are reduced.

In areas with mainly cooling loads, wind and solar overproduction can
be used to cool water in advance for air conditioning.

But no one does

They are simply stupid, if they don\'t.

It is in the wind farm company best interest to avoid electric prices
falling to zero or negative. The wind farm company should try to
\'invent\' ways that their customers could use this overproduction in
some way and get at least a cent or two instead of zero.
.

They should be required to provide the storage systems needed to
compensate for their intermittency. At the moment, they get a free ride
by being able to sell power when they can produce it, and not when they
can\'t.

A wind turbine has a really tall post in the middle, could a weight or
fluid not be pumped up there?

A one tonne block has a weight of 9800 Newtons, so lifting it through
one metre takes 9800 Joules, which is 0.0027 kWh.

And that\'s a problem, if you want to use lifting mass to store energy,
because you need to lift a lot of mass through some reasonable distance
to store a worthwhile amount.

For example lifting a thousand tons through 100 metres, stores less than
 300 kWh.

One thousand tonnes is already multiples of the mass that a typical wind
turbine tower is designed to support. It\'s just not practical

Sylvia.


Finally, someone who Can Do Sums, instead of hand wavey \'why cant we just?\'

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 05:35:40 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:43:35 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:14:23 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 15:33:34 -0000, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:10:55 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 10:49, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 09:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install smart
meters into each home.

Possibly a bit more for both gas and electricity but around the right
ball park figure.

It\'s always been the case that they had to replace non-smart meters
every so often - at one time I think the target was every 10 years. I
had a friend who worked for BG and one of his jobs was to organise
routine meter replacements (long before smart meters). When it became my
turn to have my gas meter replaced I somehow managed to get an
appointment that suited me

And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Shouldn\'t that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.
It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.

Of course it should be, along with all windmills, solar panels and any
feed in tarriffs.

Your confusion arises from the fact they you think they are working for
you. Government is not your friend, or your servant, It\'s your enemy,
and wants to be your master. Because if it isn\'t it fears you might get
rid of it.

Our regulated private utilities here are excellent. Some towns have
taken over local distribution, so are getting less excellent.

Privatization = competition = cheap. Government controlled = jobs for the boys = expensive.

Our power utilities aren\'t competitive - that wouldn\'t make sense -

Why on earth do you believe it wouldn\'t make sense?

Because it\'s impractical to run multiple distribution pipes and wires
in a city.

A local utility can seek competitive sources of gas and electricity if
large-scale transmission permits.

In the UK, I think they are competing. The national grid will buy the cheapest source it can. Expensive power sources are only used when they are really needed. Eg. wind power is always on, gas is switched off at times of low load. A gas power station which sells power cheaper will be turned on first.

but are regulated monopolies. But they are very good.

Nothing regulated by the government is good.

Some things here are excellent.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 05:36:35 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 15:10:39 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 11:18:45 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 06:56:27 -0000, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

On 2023-03-20, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/03/2023 00:27, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Domestic cats kill 2.4 billion birds annually. Windmills account for
1 in 4000 of the annual total, maybe half a million max.

To make that a fair comparison you have to use the figures for kills per
cat and kills per windmill.

Many fewer

Posh twatt. Use less.

wind turbines are needed per household than cats.

Cats are not needed at all.

Wives aren\'t either.

That is true. But doing without a wife is like doing without a TV.

TV is trash. I don\'t watch TV. I like to watch my wife.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 19:59:59 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:

On 31-Mar-23 1:54 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 00:19:59 -0000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 21-Mar-23 7:42 am, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 18:34:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 11:39, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much
power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra
power.  Is this really true?  Aren\'t there plenty of power
stations they can just turn down a bit?  Take your foot off the
gas so to speak?

If there is a risk of overproduction due to wind turbines, simply stop
some wind turbines. Wind turbines must have brakes so that they can be
stopped during a strong storm (about 25 m/s) to avoid damaging the
turbine. Of course greenies will complain about stopping renewable
production, but who cares .

We do, because they still get paid to stop generating as if they had
been generating.


In practice, district heating companies are installing electrically
heated boilers to heat district heating water when there is an
overproduction of wind energy and hence the selectivity price drops
towards zero, thus saving on coal/oil/gas/biofuel during
overproduction.

No they are not.

Our local district heating company just installed an electrically
heated boiler to heat water, when the electric prices drops towards
zero due to wind overproduction. The claim is that by doing so, 16,000
tons of emissions are reduced.

In areas with mainly cooling loads, wind and solar overproduction can
be used to cool water in advance for air conditioning.

But no one does

They are simply stupid, if they don\'t.

It is in the wind farm company best interest to avoid electric prices
falling to zero or negative. The wind farm company should try to
\'invent\' ways that their customers could use this overproduction in
some way and get at least a cent or two instead of zero.
.

They should be required to provide the storage systems needed to
compensate for their intermittency. At the moment, they get a free ride
by being able to sell power when they can produce it, and not when they
can\'t.

A wind turbine has a really tall post in the middle, could a weight or
fluid not be pumped up there?

A one tonne block has a weight of 9800 Newtons, so lifting it through
one metre takes 9800 Joules, which is 0.0027 kWh.

And that\'s a problem, if you want to use lifting mass to store energy,
because you need to lift a lot of mass through some reasonable distance
to store a worthwhile amount.

For example lifting a thousand tons through 100 metres, stores less than
300 kWh.

One thousand tonnes is already multiples of the mass that a typical wind
turbine tower is designed to support. It\'s just not practical

Sylvia.

You\'ll never be popular here doing that \"mathematics\" stuff.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 11:51:15 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 19:59:59 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>wrote:
On 31-Mar-23 1:54 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 00:19:59 -0000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote:
On 21-Mar-23 7:42 am, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 18:34:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 18/03/2023 11:39, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\" <C...@nospam.com> wrote:

<snip>

> You\'ll never be popular here doing that \"mathematics\" stuff.

Not with John Larkin. He wants admiration, not illumination, and thinks that everybody else who posts here shares his insatiable narcissism.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 23:45:45 +1000, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 05:35:40 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:43:35 +0100, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:14:23 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 15:33:34 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 11:10:55 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 10:49, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2023 09:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:

I was also disturbed to hear from him it costs £700 to install
smart
meters into each home.

Possibly a bit more for both gas and electricity but around the
right
ball park figure.

It\'s always been the case that they had to replace non-smart meters
every so often - at one time I think the target was every 10
years. I
had a friend who worked for BG and one of his jobs was to organise
routine meter replacements (long before smart meters). When it
became my
turn to have my gas meter replaced I somehow managed to get an
appointment that suited me

And in the UK that comes from green tax.
Shouldn\'t that tax be being spent on making more green energy,
building new wind farms?

Shouldn\'t that tax be scrapped to make our bills cheaper.
It used to be spent on giving us all free CFL light bulbs.

Of course it should be, along with all windmills, solar panels and
any
feed in tarriffs.

Your confusion arises from the fact they you think they are working
for
you. Government is not your friend, or your servant, It\'s your
enemy,
and wants to be your master. Because if it isn\'t it fears you might
get
rid of it.

Our regulated private utilities here are excellent. Some towns have
taken over local distribution, so are getting less excellent.

Privatization = competition = cheap. Government controlled = jobs
for the boys = expensive.

Our power utilities aren\'t competitive - that wouldn\'t make sense -

Why on earth do you believe it wouldn\'t make sense?

Because it\'s impractical to run multiple distribution pipes and wires
in a city.

It isnt done with multiple distribution pipes and wires.

One operation does the pipes and wires and competing
retailers sell you the electricity over those,

A local utility can seek competitive sources of gas and electricity if
large-scale transmission permits.

In the UK, I think they are competing. The national grid will buy the
cheapest source it can. Expensive power sources are only used when
they are really needed. Eg. wind power is always on, gas is switched
off at times of low load. A gas power station which sells power
cheaper will be turned on first.

but are regulated monopolies. But they are very good.

Nothing regulated by the government is good.

Some things here are excellent.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 09 Apr 2023 23:50:59 +1000, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 19:59:59 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 31-Mar-23 1:54 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 00:19:59 -0000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 21-Mar-23 7:42 am, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 18:34:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/03/2023 11:39, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:39:03 -0000, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

An electrician (who I don\'t believe) told me if there\'s too much
power on the grid, they use wind turbines as fans to absorb extra
power. Is this really true? Aren\'t there plenty of power
stations they can just turn down a bit? Take your foot off the
gas so to speak?

If there is a risk of overproduction due to wind turbines, simply
stop
some wind turbines. Wind turbines must have brakes so that they
can be
stopped during a strong storm (about 25 m/s) to avoid damaging the
turbine. Of course greenies will complain about stopping renewable
production, but who cares .

We do, because they still get paid to stop generating as if they had
been generating.


In practice, district heating companies are installing electrically
heated boilers to heat district heating water when there is an
overproduction of wind energy and hence the selectivity price drops
towards zero, thus saving on coal/oil/gas/biofuel during
overproduction.

No they are not.

Our local district heating company just installed an electrically
heated boiler to heat water, when the electric prices drops towards
zero due to wind overproduction. The claim is that by doing so,
16,000
tons of emissions are reduced.

In areas with mainly cooling loads, wind and solar overproduction
can
be used to cool water in advance for air conditioning.

But no one does

They are simply stupid, if they don\'t.

It is in the wind farm company best interest to avoid electric prices
falling to zero or negative. The wind farm company should try to
\'invent\' ways that their customers could use this overproduction in
some way and get at least a cent or two instead of zero.
.

They should be required to provide the storage systems needed to
compensate for their intermittency. At the moment, they get a free
ride
by being able to sell power when they can produce it, and not when
they
can\'t.

A wind turbine has a really tall post in the middle, could a weight or
fluid not be pumped up there?

A one tonne block has a weight of 9800 Newtons, so lifting it through
one metre takes 9800 Joules, which is 0.0027 kWh.

And that\'s a problem, if you want to use lifting mass to store energy,
because you need to lift a lot of mass through some reasonable distance
to store a worthwhile amount.

For example lifting a thousand tons through 100 metres, stores less than
300 kWh.

One thousand tonnes is already multiples of the mass that a typical wind
turbine tower is designed to support. It\'s just not practical

Sylvia.


You\'ll never be popular here doing that \"mathematics\" stuff.

She\'s not into being popular. She makes a complete pest of
herself claiming that the local authoritys are doing what the
legislation does not allow them to do and ALWAYS gets them
telling her to go and fuck herself using appropriate bureaucratic
language.

She is also a stupid nudist.

 

[rbowman]

On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 10:21:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 09/04/2023 02:08, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 15:28:08 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

Then I can only presume you are in denial that there are both poor
male and female drivers yet only men will only ever be F1 Champions.

Too many corners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Muldowney

With power steering, and brakes there is no earthly reason why a woman
F1 champion should not exist.
Pat Moss and Michelle Mouton did it in rallying, which has lots of
corners.

Desiré Wilson did score a win at Brands Hatch without power steering but
was more successful in other types of motor sport.

I\'ve only seen one F1 race and that was at Watkins Glen in the mid-60s. It
wasn\'t very exciting for someone who grew up with 1/4 mile dirt tracks.
The SCCA races at Limerock were much more interesting.

 

[Susan Cohen]

On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 21:09:11 +0200, Peeler <trolltrap@valid.invalid>
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2023 03:57:52 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread

Is there any group where you are not the #1 troll?
--
Anti-virus firm AVG <avg@avg.com> addressing Peeler (always forging
someone on Usenet:

\"Hello from AVG.

Please stop advertising us. We don\'t want to be associated with neo-Nazi
scum like you and RichA, no matter whether you use our product or not.

And fix your fucking sig separator!

Sincerely, AVG.\"

 

[Rod Speed]

Susan Cohen <thickirish@cunt.com> wrote

Peeler <trolltrap@valid.invalid> wrote

Is there any group where you are not the #1 troll?

Yep, there are a few where it doesnt appear at all.