Why do circuit breakers go up for on and down for off?...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 03:14:07 -0000, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 01:13:18 -0000, Commander Kinsey wrote:


When I was about 20 I had a friend who was a nutter on a mountain bike.
Going down mountains without applying brakes. He had a new 3 grand
bike,
I had a fairly new half grand bike. He wasn\'t happy when his suspension
fell in half and mine didn\'t. Yeah, super lightweight fancy expensive
stuff doesn\'t cut it. I prefer sturdy.

My first Mtn. bike was a high end GT that I bought in the late \'80s. As
might be expected the components were the latest, greatest. The rear
brakes were a Shimano U-brake design that fell out of favor very quickly.
It had Biopace chainwheels, sort of an elliptical design that faded just
as rapidly. There was a frangible derailleur hanger that was delicate and
very unique. The seat tube was an odd diameter.

when someone stole it they were doing me a favor. I replaced it with a
plain vanilla bike with suspension forks.

When my friend insured his bike I fell about laughing. Insurance is for expensive things like cars I said. Then he told me he\'d spent 3 grand on it. 3 times what I\'d just spent to buy a car. Which went 113mph downhill. His bike didn\'t.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 12:45:00 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 03/03/2023 01:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 14:26:58 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 25/02/2023 07:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:39:44 -0000, Carlos E. R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-02-15 16:27, NY wrote:
On 15/02/2023 14:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 20:38:43 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not.email@all.invalid
wrote:

What about water taps? Most turn anticlockwise to unscrew the tap
so as
to increase the pressure, but a few go the opposite way. And there
seems
to be no consensus as to whether the cold or the hot tap should be on
the left: doesn\'t matter as long its separate taps with coloured
inserts, but some modern mixer taps, which rotate to vary temperature
and rock back and forth to vary water flow, have no indication as to
which way to rotate to get hot water - and sometimes you have to
choose
a rotation arbitrarily and wait: if the water remains cold and never
runs warm after a while, try the other way

In Spain there are conventions on that. Hot is left. But German taps
(Grohe brand) assume hot is right. They all turn in the same direction,
although modern ones do not have any screw thread.

So when we installed a Grohe on the kitchen, we reversed the tubes. Hot
is left, but red colour.

But red?! Hot IS red.

That\'s just a convention. And blue is cold. Sometimes cold is green
instead; why\'s that? Maybe green should be hot and red cold, as I think
green chillies are \"hotter\" than red.

It\'s the colour of your skin at different temperatures. They could have
gone by the colour of metal (blue is hotter), but that would be less
understood by the masses.

No metal can stand the temperature needed to go blue (>10,000K).

Is white or blue hottest? Filament lamps go white. Presumably if it starts with red, as you heat it up you get blue aswell, then eventually lose the red?

I\'m sure you could get blue metal in a vacuum.

So why is it sometimes green for cold? My skin is never green, as I
don\'t photosynthesise.

What if you caught gangreen?

 

[Ian Jackson]

In message <op.11uqo0s7mvhs6z@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
<CK1@nospam.com> writes

On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 13:53:01 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 28/02/2023 11:37, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 21:57:43 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

I remember reading an ancient book on building your own radio, and they
mentioned regenerative receivers with only a single valve. Some would
emit back on the receiving antena, so they said don\'t do this, it is
illegal and nasty on your neighbours. Better use two valves, isolating
the oscillator from the antena.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_circuit

Sounds like a good way to annoy a neighbour you hate and prevent them
listening to the radio station you don\'t like.

People got used to hearing squeals in the early evening when people were
tuning their radios in. Just as, later, people listening on long wave
got used to the whistling interference from 405 line TVs.

How come I remember a whine on LW and I was born in 1975?

Two things happened around those times.
405 was 10.125kHz. 625 timebase is 15.625kHz.
Droitwich moved from 200kHz to 198kHz.
Also, there would have been a lot of 405 sets still around.
I\'ll let you check whether a whistle was possible.
--
Ian
Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

 

[Max Demian]

On 15/03/2023 14:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 12:45:00 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 03/03/2023 01:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 14:26:58 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 25/02/2023 07:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:39:44 -0000, Carlos E. R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-02-15 16:27, NY wrote:
On 15/02/2023 14:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 20:38:43 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not.email@all.invalid
wrote:

What about water taps? Most turn anticlockwise to unscrew the tap
so as
to increase the pressure, but a few go the opposite way. And there
seems
to be no consensus as to whether the cold or the hot tap should
be on
the left: doesn\'t matter as long its separate taps with coloured
inserts, but some modern mixer taps, which rotate to vary
temperature
and rock back and forth to vary water flow, have no indication as to
which way to rotate to get hot water - and sometimes you have to
choose
a rotation arbitrarily and wait: if the water remains cold and never
runs warm after a while, try the other way

In Spain there are conventions on that. Hot is left. But German taps
(Grohe brand) assume hot is right. They all turn in the same
direction,
although modern ones do not have any screw thread.

So when we installed a Grohe on the kitchen, we reversed the
tubes. Hot
is left, but red colour.

But red?!  Hot IS red.

That\'s just a convention. And blue is cold. Sometimes cold is green
instead; why\'s that? Maybe green should be hot and red cold, as I think
green chillies are \"hotter\" than red.

It\'s the colour of your skin at different temperatures.  They could have
gone by the colour of metal (blue is hotter), but that would be less
understood by the masses.

No metal can stand the temperature needed to go blue (>10,000K).

Is white or blue hottest?  Filament lamps go white.  Presumably if it
starts with red, as you heat it up you get blue aswell, then eventually
lose the red?

As you heat something, it produces radiation more or less independent of
what it is made of. Initially all the radiation is in the infrared, so
we can\'t see it. Then it creeps into the red end of the visible spectrum
and looks dull red, then bright red, then orange; when the \"hump\" of
radiation is mostly in the visible spectrum it looks white to us. This
is at 6000K which is the temperature of the surface of our Sun, to which
our eyes are adapted. If you go on raising the temperature the hump
moves out of the violet end and the light looks bluish as it has lost
the red. This is why the star Sirius looks bluish, as its surface is 10000K.

Filament lamps are rather yellowish, as tungsten tends to evaporate much
above 3000K; less for halogen lamps which can stand a higher temperature.

I\'m sure you could get blue metal in a vacuum.

So why is it sometimes green for cold? My skin is never green, as I
don\'t photosynthesise.

What if you caught gangreen?

I think gangrenous tissue is black, not green. Anyway, you can\'t \"catch\"
gangrene as it is just tissue which has died.

--
Max Demian

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 15/03/2023 17:37, Max Demian wrote:

On 15/03/2023 14:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 12:45:00 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 03/03/2023 01:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 14:26:58 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 25/02/2023 07:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:39:44 -0000, Carlos E. R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-02-15 16:27, NY wrote:
On 15/02/2023 14:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 20:38:43 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not.email@all.invalid
wrote:

What about water taps? Most turn anticlockwise to unscrew the tap
so as
to increase the pressure, but a few go the opposite way. And there
seems
to be no consensus as to whether the cold or the hot tap should
be on
the left: doesn\'t matter as long its separate taps with coloured
inserts, but some modern mixer taps, which rotate to vary
temperature
and rock back and forth to vary water flow, have no indication
as to
which way to rotate to get hot water - and sometimes you have to
choose
a rotation arbitrarily and wait: if the water remains cold and
never
runs warm after a while, try the other way

In Spain there are conventions on that. Hot is left. But German taps
(Grohe brand) assume hot is right. They all turn in the same
direction,
although modern ones do not have any screw thread.

So when we installed a Grohe on the kitchen, we reversed the
tubes. Hot
is left, but red colour.

But red?!  Hot IS red.

That\'s just a convention. And blue is cold. Sometimes cold is green
instead; why\'s that? Maybe green should be hot and red cold, as I
think
green chillies are \"hotter\" than red.

It\'s the colour of your skin at different temperatures.  They could
have
gone by the colour of metal (blue is hotter), but that would be less
understood by the masses.

No metal can stand the temperature needed to go blue (>10,000K).

Is white or blue hottest?  Filament lamps go white.  Presumably if it
starts with red, as you heat it up you get blue aswell, then
eventually lose the red?

As you heat something, it produces radiation more or less independent of
what it is made of. Initially all the radiation is in the infrared, so
we can\'t see it. Then it creeps into the red end of the visible spectrum
and looks dull red, then bright red, then orange; when the \"hump\" of
radiation is mostly in the visible spectrum it looks white to us. This
is at 6000K which is the temperature of the surface of our Sun, to which
our eyes are adapted. If you go on raising the temperature the hump
moves out of the violet end and the light looks bluish as it has lost
the red. This is why the star Sirius looks bluish, as its surface is
10000K.

Filament lamps are rather yellowish, as tungsten tends to evaporate much
above 3000K; less for halogen lamps which can stand a higher temperature.

I\'m sure you could get blue metal in a vacuum.

So why is it sometimes green for cold? My skin is never green, as I
don\'t photosynthesise.

What if you caught gangreen?

I think gangrenous tissue is black, not green. Anyway, you can\'t \"catch\"
gangrene as it is just tissue which has died.

I dont think it is.

\"Gangrene is death of body tissue due to a lack of blood flow or a
serious bacterial infection.\"

So although technically the term gangrene refers to tissue death, its as
likely to be an infection as not

--
\"When one man dies it\'s a tragedy. When thousands die it\'s statistics.\"

Josef Stalin

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:07:21 +0000, Idiot Jackson, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, driveled again:

How come I remember a whine on LW and I was born in 1975?

Two things happened around those times.
405 was 10.125kHz. 625 timebase is 15.625kHz.
Droitwich moved from 200kHz to 198kHz.
Also, there would have been a lot of 405 sets still around.
I\'ll let you check whether a whistle was possible.

He\'ll ONLY check whether some senile asshole was willing to take his latest
idiotic bait, Idiot Jackson!

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:37:02 +0000, Max Dumbian, the REAL dumb, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered again:

I think gangrenous tissue is black, not green. Anyway, you can\'t \"catch\"
gangrene as it is just tissue which has died.

Is this STILL that idiotic \"circuit breakers\" thread, you idiotic
troll-feeding senile HUGE ASSHOLE?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 02 Mar 2023 20:49:37 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-03-01 16:07, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 18:37:18 -0000, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 12:38:00 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


In practice the railroads were built to run steam trains with up to 8
close spaced driving wheels, and if that made life difficult, tough.

The big 8 wheelers were more suited to the USA with bigger steeper
inclines but seldom tight curves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geared_steam_locomotive

https://fortmissoulamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Brief-History-
of-Engine-7.pdf

The Mount Ranier museum has a working Willamette but they shut down
during
the covid panic.

ROFL, there\'s still people wearing masks here. I went to hospital with
a suspected broken thumb and everyone had a mask on. They glared at me
sternly when I refused.

It is mandatory here in hospitals.

I make fun of snowflakes scared of a bad cold.

> And it is to protect other patients from YOU.

Yeah, because masks are magical and only work one way. Here\'s a tip - put your mask on backwards, then the virus can\'t get in.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 20:55:29 -0000, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote:

It is, however, their business if the electrical problem
causes a fire that burns down half the town, or takes out
a condominium project or flats.

An RCD does not prevent fire or shorting the power source. It is only
there to protect someone in your own house from a shock. Please learn
what the different devices actually do before making such a stupid
statement.

It can prevent a fire if the fault is a resistance that heats
sufficiently connected accidentally between live and earth, at the metal
chassis, which has not sufficient current to blow the fuse.

just an example.

An example pulled out of thin air which will probably never happen. Anything
producing enough heat should blow the fuse anyway, since anything less than that
is the intended consumption of the appliance.

And if we didn\'t earth the chassis of everything so much would be better. Like
touching a live wouldn\'t conduct through your leg to the earthed washing
machine. I de-earthed my microwave incase my pet parrot chewed the flex while
stood on the microwave.

Apparently those namby pamby ELCBs don\'t like microwaves, since they
deliberately leak to earth. At my work, someone had put an ELCB for a large
section of the building, and a single microwave tripped it. The microwave was
functioning just fine, but this stupid breaker kept cutting power to a large
number of offices. They removed it.

Why do people keep changing the names? It was always Earth Leakage Circuit
Breaker. Now we have RCD and GFCI. WTF? They mean the same thing! Stuff goes
to earth and it switches off.

I suggest you read up on how a RCD Residual Current Device works, ELCB
are rather olde hat now.

They\'re identical, there has only ever been one way of measuring it. Compare live and neutral. They just keep changing the name for marketing purposes.

An RCD measures the current flowing on in one wire and that going out on
the other as long as they are in balance, then all fine.

However if they are not then they will trip. That is caused by some
current leaking to earth somewhere that could be a simple leakage fault
such as a heating element breaking down or it could be through your body
not good!

Current going through your body gives you a fright and nothing more. I\'ve had nine 240V shocks in my life, about half of them across my whole body. Just makes you jump. Only the weak die off, which is a good thing, future generations will be stronger. Our bodies need to learn to handle stuff we use every day.

> Its simply stupid to un-earth things like microwaves and the like

I unearthed mine because if you\'re touching the chassis of the microwave, you\'re now much more susceptible to touching a live. Normally, touching only something live, you get a small tingle from capacitance of your body. But if you\'re earthed, far more dangerous. Especially to my parrot who chews cables.

If nothing in your house was earthed, you could never get a shock, unless you have no floor and live (livv, not lyve, I hate English) on the ground.

what if they developed a fault with current was leaking to the metalwork of
the unit that would then be live and is then capable if a shock not pleasant!

You touch it, feel a tingle, then fix it.

> i had one once very very painful and I couldn\'t let go thats the worst part this was in pre RCD days!

Of course you can let go. You do have control of your own body right? You have a brain in there somewhere which can override things?

It is possible for a large number of PC\'s on one ring main to cause a
trip to go but it has to be quite a lot as they have capacitors in them
which are from live to earth and will introduce some leakage usually
much less then that the 30 ma RCD is designed to trip at.

Had that at a school I worked at. 20 PCs, for some reason if you switched them all on at once (as a class of kids tends to do). I thought the caps from live to earth were always connected?

The electrician refused to put less sensitive breakers in. He claimed the regulations stated schools must have more sensitive breakers than the houses where those very same kids live! I bought less sensitive breakers on Ebay with my own money, swapped them over, then sold the sensitive ones. The loss in Ebay fees and postage was approximately equal to the gain of the sensitive ones costing more. Problem solved.

A teacher challenged me on it, so I persuaded a boy to test it in front of the class. Plug with wire, exposed live, hold that. Touch the earthed heater. Tripped, he didn\'t even say ouch.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 22:25:39 -0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 01/03/2023 20:55, tony sayer wrote:

It is, however, their business if the electrical problem
causes a fire that burns down half the town, or takes out
a condominium project or flats.

An RCD does not prevent fire or shorting the power source. It is only
there to protect someone in your own house from a shock. Please learn
what the different devices actually do before making such a stupid
statement.

It can prevent a fire if the fault is a resistance that heats
sufficiently connected accidentally between live and earth, at the metal
chassis, which has not sufficient current to blow the fuse.

just an example.

An example pulled out of thin air which will probably never happen. Anything
producing enough heat should blow the fuse anyway, since anything less than that
is the intended consumption of the appliance.

And if we didn\'t earth the chassis of everything so much would be better. Like
touching a live wouldn\'t conduct through your leg to the earthed washing
machine. I de-earthed my microwave incase my pet parrot chewed the flex while
stood on the microwave.

Apparently those namby pamby ELCBs don\'t like microwaves, since they
deliberately leak to earth. At my work, someone had put an ELCB for a large
section of the building, and a single microwave tripped it. The microwave was
functioning just fine, but this stupid breaker kept cutting power to a large
number of offices. They removed it.

Why do people keep changing the names? It was always Earth Leakage Circuit
Breaker. Now we have RCD and GFCI. WTF? They mean the same thing! Stuff goes
to earth and it switches off.

I suggest you read up on how a RCD Residual Current Device works, ELCB
are rather olde hat now.

An RCD measures the current flowing on in one wire and that going out on
the other as long as they are in balance, then all fine.

However if they are not then they will trip. That is caused by some
current leaking to earth somewhere that could be a simple leakage fault
such as a heating element breaking down or it could be through your body
not good!

Its simply stupid to un-earth things like microwaves and the like what
if they developed a fault with current was leaking to the metalwork of
the unit that would then be live and is then capable if a shock not
pleasant! i had one once very very painful and I couldn\'t let go thats
the worst part this was in pre RCD days!

It is possible for a large number of PC\'s on one ring main to cause a
trip to go but it has to be quite a lot as they have capacitors in them
which are from live to earth and will introduce some leakage usually
much less then that the 30 ma RCD is designed to trip at.

That was exactly the trouble we had - far to many electrical devices,
with leaky filters on the power supply input. It would work fine for
weeks and then randomly trip once in a while. Solved by splitting the
leakage, by ditching the RCD and changing out all the MCBs for RCBOs
instead.

Can\'t you see the problem is the snowflake RCD? FFS get rid of it. These stupid things are stopping designers from using the ground for useful purposes. Like the \"shower of death\" used in Mexico which saps electricity away to earth.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 02 Mar 2023 09:56:28 -0000, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote:

I suggest you read up on how a RCD Residual Current Device works, ELCB
are rather olde hat now.

An RCD measures the current flowing on in one wire and that going out on
the other as long as they are in balance, then all fine.

However if they are not then they will trip. That is caused by some
current leaking to earth somewhere that could be a simple leakage fault
such as a heating element breaking down or it could be through your body
not good!

Its simply stupid to un-earth things like microwaves and the like what
if they developed a fault with current was leaking to the metalwork of
the unit that would then be live and is then capable if a shock not
pleasant! i had one once very very painful and I couldn\'t let go thats
the worst part this was in pre RCD days!

It is possible for a large number of PC\'s on one ring main to cause a
trip to go but it has to be quite a lot as they have capacitors in them
which are from live to earth and will introduce some leakage usually
much less then that the 30 ma RCD is designed to trip at.



That was exactly the trouble we had - far to many electrical devices,
with leaky filters on the power supply input. It would work fine for
weeks and then randomly trip once in a while. Solved by splitting the
leakage, by ditching the RCD and changing out all the MCBs for RCBOs
instead.


Yes thats a very good idea and response to that sort of problem.

It\'s a fucking expensive response. Do you know how much fusewire costs me?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 02 Mar 2023 10:28:58 -0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 01/03/2023 22:25, SteveW wrote:
On 01/03/2023 20:55, tony sayer wrote:

It is, however, their business if the electrical problem
causes a fire that burns down half the town, or takes out
a condominium project or flats.

An RCD does not prevent fire or shorting the power source. It is only
there to protect someone in your own house from a shock. Please learn
what the different devices actually do before making such a stupid
statement.

It can prevent a fire if the fault is a resistance that heats
sufficiently connected accidentally between live and earth, at the
metal
chassis, which has not sufficient current to blow the fuse.

just an example.

An example pulled out of thin air which will probably never happen.
Anything
producing enough heat should blow the fuse anyway, since anything
less than that
is the intended consumption of the appliance.

And if we didn\'t earth the chassis of everything so much would be
better. Like
touching a live wouldn\'t conduct through your leg to the earthed washing
machine. I de-earthed my microwave incase my pet parrot chewed the
flex while
stood on the microwave.

Apparently those namby pamby ELCBs don\'t like microwaves, since they
deliberately leak to earth. At my work, someone had put an ELCB for
a large
section of the building, and a single microwave tripped it. The
microwave was
functioning just fine, but this stupid breaker kept cutting power to
a large
number of offices. They removed it.

Why do people keep changing the names? It was always Earth Leakage
Circuit
Breaker. Now we have RCD and GFCI. WTF? They mean the same thing!
Stuff goes
to earth and it switches off.

I suggest you read up on how a RCD Residual Current Device works, ELCB
are rather olde hat now.

An RCD measures the current flowing on in one wire and that going out on
the other as long as they are in balance, then all fine.

However if they are not then they will trip. That is caused by some
current leaking to earth somewhere that could be a simple leakage fault
such as a heating element breaking down or it could be through your body
not good!

Its simply stupid to un-earth things like microwaves and the like what
if they developed a fault with current was leaking to the metalwork of
the unit that would then be live and is then capable if a shock not
pleasant! i had one once very very painful and I couldn\'t let go thats
the worst part this was in pre RCD days!

It is possible for a large number of PC\'s on one ring main to cause a
trip to go but it has to be quite a lot as they have capacitors in them
which are from live to earth and will introduce some leakage usually
much less then that the 30 ma RCD is designed to trip at.

That was exactly the trouble we had - far to many electrical devices,
with leaky filters on the power supply input. It would work fine for
weeks and then randomly trip once in a while. Solved by splitting the
leakage, by ditching the RCD and changing out all the MCBs for RCBOs
instead.

In the end that is all you can do. Ditch the whole premises RCD and
individually make rings protected.

I can give you one data point. A mouse tripped my 100mA RCD, but it died
in the process.

I have an 8000 volt trap for mice and rats. They look so funny cramped up and stretched out.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 09:49:01 -0000, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

\"The Natural Philosopher\" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ttptpa$27bbi$42@dont-email.me...

That was exactly the trouble we had - far to many electrical devices,
with leaky filters on the power supply input. It would work fine for
weeks and then randomly trip once in a while. Solved by splitting the
leakage, by ditching the RCD and changing out all the MCBs for RCBOs
instead.

In the end that is all you can do. Ditch the whole premises RCD and
individually make rings protected.

Whole-house RCDs are a right pain. At our previous house we had one spur
that ran to an outhouse. If there was a storm, the house RCD would trip if
the spur\'s MCB was turned on, but would not if the spur was turned off.
After losing a freezer full of food

Hahahahahah!!! You stupid pathetic wimp. Gotta be safe..... oh, the thing you spent loads of cash on just costs you even more cash. Put. In. A. Fuse.

because the whole house had tripped, we
got into the habit of turning off the \"outside\" MCB whenever we were not
using it - and especially if we were going away on holiday.

If each ring main or spur had had a separate RCD, only that circuit would
have tripped if there was an apparent earth leakage problem.

But I imagine RCDs are expensive and MCBs are cheap, so circuits are
protected only by over-current, and then the whole house is protected by
earth-leakage RCD.


Apart from cost, is there any disadvantage in dispensing with over-current
MCBs altogether, and protecting each circuit with its own
over-current/earth-leakage combined circuit breaker so as to confine the
power-loss to the smallest practicable set of appliances?

Yeah, more cost. Obviously the more devices you have the more they cost.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 15:41:45 -0000, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 03/03/2023 09:49, NY wrote:
\"The Natural Philosopher\" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ttptpa$27bbi$42@dont-email.me...

That was exactly the trouble we had - far to many electrical devices,
with leaky filters on the power supply input. It would work fine for
weeks and then randomly trip once in a while. Solved by splitting the
leakage, by ditching the RCD and changing out all the MCBs for RCBOs
instead.

In the end that is all you can do. Ditch the whole premises RCD and
individually make rings protected.

Whole-house RCDs are a right pain. At our previous house we had one spur
that ran to an outhouse. If there was a storm, the house RCD would trip
if the spur\'s MCB was turned on, but would not if the spur was turned
off. After losing a freezer full of food because the whole house had
tripped, we got into the habit of turning off the \"outside\" MCB whenever
we were not using it - and especially if we were going away on holiday.

If each ring main or spur had had a separate RCD, only that circuit
would have tripped if there was an apparent earth leakage problem.

But I imagine RCDs are expensive and MCBs are cheap, so circuits are
protected only by over-current, and then the whole house is protected by
earth-leakage RCD.

I can buy MCBs for my CU for about £3.50 or RCBOs for about £35 -
although I managed to find them online for about £17 when I was changing
mine.

Apart from cost, is there any disadvantage in dispensing with
over-current MCBs altogether, and protecting each circuit with its own
over-current/earth-leakage combined circuit breaker so as to confine the
power-loss to the smallest practicable set of appliances?

I can\'t think of any. There are even additional advantages - unlike most
MCBs, the RCBO isolates both live and neutral when off.

Because neutral is oh so dangerous.

 

[alan_m]

On 09/03/2023 09:54, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

That said, my husband and I like to watch various home improvement
shows where decorating is also involved. We criticize bad construction
technique and marvel at the decorators\' ability to listen to the
homeowners and do nothing like what they wanted.

But those shows are never in the real world. It used to amaze me that
painters could get the perfect finish while they were applying paint
when people were still sanding down the walls/plaster in the same room
- until the camera got too close.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

 

[alan_m]

On 10/03/2023 17:26, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:13:26 +0000, Max Demian wrote:

On 09/03/2023 04:14, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:50:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

I can\'t believe you lived through the 1980s without knowing more about
the color teal. The entire decade was colored teal and mauve.

I will have to resort to DuckDuckGo to find out what the hell mauve is.

It was all the rage in the nineteenth century.

Ah, the Mauve Decade. I am familiar with the term but never was too clear
about the color involved.

What about the coloured bathroom suite - I think the one I had was
called champagne but really it was a baby poo colour. At least with
white sanitary ware it\'s more obvious where to clean.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

 

[Max Demian]

On 16/03/2023 07:07, alan_m wrote:

On 10/03/2023 17:26, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:13:26 +0000, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/03/2023 04:14, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:50:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

I can\'t believe you lived through the 1980s without knowing more about
the color teal.  The entire decade was colored teal and mauve.

I will have to resort to DuckDuckGo to find out what the hell mauve is.

It was all the rage in the nineteenth century.

Ah, the Mauve Decade. I am familiar with the term but never was too clear
about the color involved.

What about the coloured bathroom suite - I think the one I had was
called champagne but really it was a baby poo colour. At least with
white sanitary ware it\'s more obvious where to clean.

Is that a good idea? I used to live in a place where the bog was piss
colour. Er, fawn.

--
Max Demian

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 16/03/2023 13:47, Max Demian wrote:

On 16/03/2023 07:07, alan_m wrote:
On 10/03/2023 17:26, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:13:26 +0000, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/03/2023 04:14, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:50:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

I can\'t believe you lived through the 1980s without knowing more
about
the color teal.  The entire decade was colored teal and mauve.

I will have to resort to DuckDuckGo to find out what the hell mauve
is.

It was all the rage in the nineteenth century.

Ah, the Mauve Decade. I am familiar with the term but never was too
clear
about the color involved.

What about the coloured bathroom suite - I think the one I had was
called champagne but really it was a baby poo colour. At least with
white sanitary ware it\'s more obvious where to clean.

Is that a good idea? I used to live in a place where the bog was piss
colour. Er, fawn.

Blimey,is your piss fawn?

Mine is more tan to straw.

I\'d get it analysed

--
\"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch\".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

 

[Max Demian]

On 16/03/2023 14:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/03/2023 13:47, Max Demian wrote:
On 16/03/2023 07:07, alan_m wrote:
On 10/03/2023 17:26, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:13:26 +0000, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/03/2023 04:14, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:50:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

I can\'t believe you lived through the 1980s without knowing more
about
the color teal.  The entire decade was colored teal and mauve.

I will have to resort to DuckDuckGo to find out what the hell
mauve is.

It was all the rage in the nineteenth century.

Ah, the Mauve Decade. I am familiar with the term but never was too
clear
about the color involved.

What about the coloured bathroom suite - I think the one I had was
called champagne but really it was a baby poo colour. At least with
white sanitary ware it\'s more obvious where to clean.

Is that a good idea? I used to live in a place where the bog was piss
colour. Er, fawn.

Blimey,is your piss fawn?

Mine is more tan to straw.

I\'d get it analysed

Are not fauns tan?

--
Max Demian

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 16/03/2023 17:07, Max Demian wrote:

On 16/03/2023 14:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/03/2023 13:47, Max Demian wrote:
On 16/03/2023 07:07, alan_m wrote:
On 10/03/2023 17:26, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:13:26 +0000, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/03/2023 04:14, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:50:47 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

I can\'t believe you lived through the 1980s without knowing more
about
the color teal.  The entire decade was colored teal and mauve.

I will have to resort to DuckDuckGo to find out what the hell
mauve is.

It was all the rage in the nineteenth century.

Ah, the Mauve Decade. I am familiar with the term but never was too
clear
about the color involved.

What about the coloured bathroom suite - I think the one I had was
called champagne but really it was a baby poo colour. At least with
white sanitary ware it\'s more obvious where to clean.

Is that a good idea? I used to live in a place where the bog was piss
colour. Er, fawn.

Blimey,is your piss fawn?

Mine is more tan to straw.

I\'d get it analysed

Are not fauns tan?

\"Regular urine color ranges from clear to pale yellow\"

Tan is rather off the end of normal, but I have \'issues\'.

--
\"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors.\"
- George Orwell