War on humanity

[Rich Grise]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409AA5FC.7D3C@armory.com...

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 00:36:19 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

You will be rewarded the same per hour IF and ONLY IF you perform
labor that is authorized by the Majority to BE paid.

So now you're advocating slavery?
-------------------
You're merely trying to define employment as slavery.

Employment is only slavery if I don't have a choice as to
where I work and what I do.
-----------------------
Just as here and now: You can work how and where you want, but
the rest of us don't have to pay you!! Now: If you want to get
paid, then the rest of us have a big say in how and what you do
if we have to pay you!!

Sorry to bust your bubble, Steve, but I don't recall Joe ever
checking with King Steve to decide how much to pay me.

Idiot.

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409AAE89.27F5@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4099A011.1F4@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last
century
or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

Please cite examples (outside your fantasies) to support your criticism.
---------------------
You're vainly posturing to pretend that you can turn this.

Small-scale tribal culture is notoriously NON-hierarchical, that's
in every anthro book since Boas. And also, their "chiefs" are now
understood to be servants of the tribe, not dictators.

And all the large-scale tribes, like the Iroquois/Algonquian were
purely democratic and mass-socialist.

The only "strongman/king" varieties occured in the anti-tribal
enslavements of tribes in Europe and other post-tribal/anti-tribal
periods in China and Africa.

Those are assertions, not proof.
--------------------------

They're also the Truth.
Of course, they're not "proof".

I don't publish "proof", as that is altogether impossible on Usenet,
nor should anyone pretend that they publish "proof" here, because
ANY disingenuous liar can make any supposed "proof" you offer look
otherwise here, so no one CAN publish ANY supposed "proof" on Usenet.

But what I DID say is documented elsewhere in countless places,
and ANYONE who has a committment to proof and wishes to know for
themselves can go ascertain it for themselves if they are not
intellectually dishonest.

No pearls before swine. Do your own homework, I did.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409AAE89.27F5@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4099A011.1F4@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last
century
or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

Please cite examples (outside your fantasies) to support your criticism.
---------------------
You're vainly posturing to pretend that you can turn this.

Small-scale tribal culture is notoriously NON-hierarchical, that's
in every anthro book since Boas. And also, their "chiefs" are now
understood to be servants of the tribe, not dictators.

And all the large-scale tribes, like the Iroquois/Algonquian were
purely democratic and mass-socialist.

The only "strongman/king" varieties occured in the anti-tribal
enslavements of tribes in Europe and other post-tribal/anti-tribal
periods in China and Africa.

If so, let's see citations.

Put your money where your BS is.

feh.
------------------

Again you are doing nothing but posturing.

Do your own homework.
Nobody bothers with disingenuous Rightist cretins like you on here.

When someone does try to publish cites on here that prove their point,
you'd find one of the countless rightist lie-sites on Usenet to try
to make the argument seem moot and thus propagate your lies, even
though the point is considered proven in that specialty. Or you'll
cite vast tracts no one has time to check and which don't state
anything of the kind anyway!

That's why nobody with a MIND ever bothers with trying to prove
anything on Usenet in front of you cranks, the closest thing one
can do on Usenet is make a structural argument as to why it makes
reasonable sense, and of course you're so politically and emotionally
invested in your lies that you'll deny those too, at any cost.

I use to try to offer proofs, but too many times it has proven
wholly unimportant to my dishonest enemies, so I stopped bothering.

"Do not explain. Your friends do not need it and your enemies
will not listen anyway." - Mark Twain.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Fri, 07 May 2004 01:23:01 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Richard Henry wrote:

Those are assertions, not proof.
--------------------------
They're also the Truth.

Only in your own demented mind.

Of course, they're not "proof".

I don't publish "proof", as that is altogether impossible on Usenet,

You could, though, cite an academic source that supports your position.

You won't find one, though.

--
We must remember that law is force, and that, consequently, the proper
functions of the law cannot morally extend beyond the proper functions
of force.
- Frederic Bastiat

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 06 May 2004 02:13:28 GMT) it happened "R. Steve Walz"
rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <4099A011.1F4@armory.com>:

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...
Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 05 May 2004 06:02:55 GMT) it happened "R. Steve
Walz"
rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <40988457.186F@armory.com>:

No, I simply turn it to mine own meaning, as I do indeed see it
that way. I know True Human Nature.

Then why carry on about such a weard system?
JP
-----------------------
"Weird"??

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last century or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

-Steve

No, wait a minute, some month ago I did see this fantastic documentary
about some sort of apes (don't remember what sort), and they had a leader.
----------------

Yes, a deposable one, apes invented popular democracy.

(Because Darwin, ancestors, apes.. see the link?).
Anyways this leader REALLY had control, his own spies even, and some of his
women cheating on him, and the spies reporting that to him, upon which he went
to beat up the ape who did it with one of his women.
-------------------

YOU best go read Goodall et alia.

Nonsense, apes don't care who gets fucked, the ape leader only
tries to run off direct opponents to his leadership, he doesn't bar
access to females. The females are the power-base that supports his
leadership, and they WANT the other males!

Also, don't believe the shit they write for television. Absolutely
nobody is checking that shit primatologically, it's all fanciful.
Beware of who interprets "truth" for you.

Man that REALLy was so human what happened there.
-----------------

And THAT notion, that the temporary provincial cultural shit in
this cultureis magically mirrored in ape society is typical
incorrect dogshit anaylsis by TV writers trying to entertain.

But there also was a
different type of apes that were sharing everything (land) and living in
harmony in groups.
--------------------

Some moron probably tried to contrast the two kinds of chimps and
got confused and went overboard. The two kinds are actually much more
alike than different, but western Americans keep trying to draw
mistaken moral or social conclusions about their differences that
parallel the current human social arguments, quite erroneously!

So I think you are both right, both systems existed even when 'we were apes'....
---------------

Go read, and stop watching "nature specials" on the tooooob.

So perhaps it is better to have these systems co-exist, you should be free
to chose what you want and go there, but that system may not allow it.
------------------------------

Tv writers often serve the desires of rich management to try to make
those kinds of peri-political points. Be VERY wary when they do shit
like that, it is NOT correct primatology!

Again I did read today that China closed 800 internet cafes, because of bad
influence on the youth.
Now I know they read us...
-----------------------------

And do you imagine that's a good or a bad thing?
Remember:
Supppressing things that are good and are called bad is actually bad.
Suppressing things that are bad and are called bad is good.

But this looks like surpression.
I used to say: Read the stuff, all stuff, like inocculation, you get stronger.
So this exposes a future weakness in China...
Hi guys, your leader sucks!
JP
----------------------------

Yup.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:50:58 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

Employment is only slavery if I don't have a choice as to
where I work and what I do.
-----------------------
Just as here and now: You can work how and where you want, but
the rest of us don't have to pay you!! Now: If you want to get
paid, then the rest of us have a big say in how and what you do
if we have to pay you!!

You don't have _any_ say in how and what I do, because you're not paying
me.
-------------------------

Sure I am. And yes I do. What do you imagine the Market is, you
buffoon!!?? You "Free-Market" hacks always forget that the "Market"
is a non-democratic mass control of production by chance and by
influence that controls all your work and your very life!!

And there is NO way to do WITHOUT one of these, the Market has to
know what to produce! All *I* want to do is get a fairer and more
democratic one!

--
It is impossible to address the problem of rampant crime without talking
about the moral responsibility of the intended victim. Crime is rampant
because the law-abiding, each of us, condone it, excuse it, permit it,
submit to it. We permit and encourage it because we do not fight back,
immediately, then and there, where it happens. Crime is not rampant
because we do not have enough prisons, because judges and prosecutors are
too soft, because the police are hamstrung with absurd technicalities. The
defect is there, in our character. We are a nation of coward and shirkers.
- Jeffrey R. Snyder, "A Nation of Cowards"
----------------

Which is why we neesd to rise up against the rich and reclaim our
Majority Democratic Power to Control not merely election to political
office, nut EVERYTHING that affects our lives, including wages, and
the Market and the entire Economy!

Capitalism is Organized Crime!! Replace it with a Majority Democracy!!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:53:51 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:02:10 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
If there is too much clamor a place, we will have to remove everyone
from that area and make it a time-shared resource that everyone can
enjoy on scheduled vacations.

So now you're espousing ethnic cleansing?
--------------------------
Hah!! I was thinking more of evacuation on buses and trucks.

But you'd forcibly evacuate thousands or millions of people, because
their presence is inconvenient to your vision of how society should work.
----------------

It's called eminent domain.

Don't get overly dramatic, this can be done over decades, slowly.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Fri, 07 May 2004 01:55:03 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

You don't have _any_ say in how and what I do, because you're not paying
me.
-------------------------
Sure I am. And yes I do. What do you imagine the Market is, you
buffoon!!??

Are you offering to pay me more than my current employer?

Didn't think so.

--
The eleventh of September changed the psychology of America, that
is clear. It should have changed the psychology of the world.
- Tony Blair

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:58:35 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:04:35 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

When National Health came in they said that Canadian doctors would
all take up other fields, or even flee to the US, well, they didn't.

Actually, yes they did, many of them.
------------------------
Many means "some" or "a few". Name names, I dare you.


The best of them.
------------------
Now your opinion, which you are unfit to give, not being medically
trained.

Nope. You made another empty assertion.
Every review of the events of that time reveal that nothing happened
as the Right claimed doctors would respond.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/102703C.html
----------------

You shouldn't cite only a solitary LIE article written to justify
a certain view, you should review evenly ALL the reports on the
Canadian system and physicians in Canada before merely trying to
pull a phony political fast one!!

When you do that you find that the doctors they said left were not
in the LARGER group of all doctors who intentionally MOVED their
practice to Canada for their regulated insurance and single payor
advantages!

Most of the assertions from your LIe-site were similarly imbalanced
and unfair LIES only. Beware of people grinding their axe.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:58:35 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:04:35 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

When National Health came in they said that Canadian doctors would
all take up other fields, or even flee to the US, well, they didn't.

Actually, yes they did, many of them.
------------------------
Many means "some" or "a few". Name names, I dare you.


The best of them.
------------------
Now your opinion, which you are unfit to give, not being medically
trained.

Nope. You made another empty assertion.
Every review of the events of that time reveal that nothing happened
as the Right claimed doctors would respond.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/102703C.html
------------------------------

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1845&ncid=1845&e=10&u=/cpress/20040504/ca_pr_on_na/health_countries_compared

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Fri, 07 May 2004 02:04:39 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

http://www.techcentralstation.com/102703C.html
----------------
You shouldn't cite only a solitary LIE article written to justify
a certain view, you should review evenly ALL the reports on the
Canadian system and physicians in Canada before merely trying to
pull a phony political fast one!!

You shouldn't delete all of my cited articles except one and then claim
I only cited a single article.

--
The 1 & only place that a design is conceived is in the mind of the
designer. As this design un-folds over time, it is often captured on
such high-tech media as white boards, napkins, & scraps of paper.
-- Grady Booch

 

[Richard Henry]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:409AE5BF.5915@armory.com...

ANY disingenuous liar can make any supposed "proof" you offer look
otherwise here, so no one CAN publish ANY supposed "proof" on Usenet.

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Fri, 07 May 2004 01:23:01 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Richard Henry wrote:

Those are assertions, not proof.
--------------------------
They're also the Truth.

Only in your own demented mind.
------------

Nope.

Of course, they're not "proof".

I don't publish "proof", as that is altogether impossible on Usenet,

You could, though, cite an academic source that supports your position.

You won't find one, though.
----------------------

Hundreds.
I just won't bother with your sort, you lying piece of shit.

We must remember that law is force, and that, consequently, the proper
functions of the law cannot morally extend beyond the proper functions
of force.
- Frederic Bastiat
-------

Yup.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Fri, 07 May 2004 01:55:03 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

You don't have _any_ say in how and what I do, because you're not paying
me.
-------------------------
Sure I am. And yes I do. What do you imagine the Market is, you
buffoon!!??

Are you offering to pay me more than my current employer?
----------------

Why should *I* pay you to suck my dick at ALL? Free nourishment!
Steve

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

On Fri, 07 May 2004 02:04:39 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:
Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

http://www.techcentralstation.com/102703C.html
----------------
You shouldn't cite only a solitary LIE article written to justify
a certain view, you should review evenly ALL the reports on the
Canadian system and physicians in Canada before merely trying to
pull a phony political fast one!!

You shouldn't delete all of my cited articles except one and then claim
I only cited a single article.
------------

I didn't, that was a coincidence.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Jeffrey C. Dege]

On Fri, 07 May 2004 03:04:31 GMT, R. Steve Walz <rstevew@armory.com> wrote:

Jeffrey C. Dege wrote:

Are you offering to pay me more than my current employer?
----------------
Why should *I* pay you to suck my dick at ALL? Free nourishment!

<plonk>

--
One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my earnest
endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure - and
in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his fellow
citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.
- Jeff Cooper

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 06 May 2004 21:27:28 GMT) it happened "R. Steve Walz"
<rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <409AAE89.27F5@armory.com>:

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:4099A011.1F4@armory.com...
Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last century
or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

Please cite examples (outside your fantasies) to support your criticism.
---------------------
You're vainly posturing to pretend that you can turn this.

Small-scale tribal culture is notoriously NON-hierarchical, that's
in every anthro book since Boas. And also, their "chiefs" are now
understood to be servants of the tribe, not dictators.

And all the large-scale tribes, like the Iroquois/Algonquian were
purely democratic and mass-socialist.

The only "strongman/king" varieties occured in the anti-tribal
enslavements of tribes in Europe and other post-tribal/anti-tribal
periods in China and Africa.

-Steve
Steve this is not correct, even some groups of apes did have a leader

who even decided who could have sex with who.
He was leader until challenged and lost by an other stronger mail.
Think Faraos...
JP

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 07 May 2004 01:56:53 GMT) it happened "R. Steve Walz"
<rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <409AEDAF.2488@armory.com>:

But you'd forcibly evacuate thousands or millions of people, because
their presence is inconvenient to your vision of how society should work.
----------------
It's called eminent domain.
Could be called genoside too,
Don't get overly dramatic, this can be done over decades, slowly.
if it is done some specific way.

JP

 

[Mark Fergerson]

R. Steve Walz wrote:

Mark Fergerson wrote:

R. Steve Walz wrote:

snip

I've kept out of this thread because you've been doing so
well so far.

But you wrote:


Will Rogers always appealed to the worst and most pessimistic about
government and democracy. Remember, humorists never have anything
true or positive to say ONLY because that just wouldn't be very
funny, not because they're right. Humor is the last refuge of
someone who can't commit to anything important.

It may also be the sole way to express political ideas
that would get you Gulaged if you presented them _as_
political thought. Examples; Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, and
Yakov Smirnoff.

Agreed.

I thought so.

But they are still not suited to represent absolute truth.

Of course not (let's don't get into the "absolute truth"
argument again, please). Even with a sympathetic audience,
they have to sorta sidle up to the truths they're telling
and let the audience figure them out on their own to keep
the censors from going pre-emptively ballistic. Sometimes I
envy that kind of creative patience.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 07 May 2004 01:49:01 GMT) it happened "R. Steve Walz"
<rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <409AEBD5.7DEE@armory.com>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 06 May 2004 02:13:28 GMT) it happened "R. Steve Walz"
rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <4099A011.1F4@armory.com>:

Richard Henry wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:40999129.1222@armory.com...
Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 05 May 2004 06:02:55 GMT) it happened "R. Steve
Walz"
rstevew@armory.com> wrote in <40988457.186F@armory.com>:

No, I simply turn it to mine own meaning, as I do indeed see it
that way. I know True Human Nature.

Then why carry on about such a weard system?
JP
-----------------------
"Weird"??

It's not weird, it parallels the way humans lived in tribes for
a hundred thousand years.

How do you know that? Most primitive tribes studied in the last century or
so had a strongman/chief/king type of government.
-------------------
Nonsense. You're obviously unread.

-Steve

No, wait a minute, some month ago I did see this fantastic documentary
about some sort of apes (don't remember what sort), and they had a leader.
----------------
Yes, a deposable one, apes invented popular democracy.


(Because Darwin, ancestors, apes.. see the link?).
Anyways this leader REALLY had control, his own spies even, and some of his
women cheating on him, and the spies reporting that to him, upon which he went
to beat up the ape who did it with one of his women.
-------------------
YOU best go read Goodall et alia.

Nonsense, apes don't care who gets fucked, the ape leader only
tries to run off direct opponents to his leadership, he doesn't bar
access to females. The females are the power-base that supports his
leadership, and they WANT the other males!
Actually he does, the strongest gets the best females FIRST.

You would not want to mess with that leader.
In the movie he used a large tree branch to beat up the poor ape
who did it with HIS woman, and chased him out of the colony.
When not fighting ,he had others comb his hair, bring him food,
sit around protecting him, eyes closed......
So human I liked it
Like a maffia boss really.

Also, don't believe the shit they write for television. Absolutely
nobody is checking that shit primatologically, it's all fanciful.
Beware of who interprets "truth" for you.
But Steve, the was a SCIENTIFIC program.

Do you object to science?
I think not.
Those guy studied those apes for a long time, both different sorts.
The pics spoke for themselves, even without analysis.
JP