Stalled EV...

[Ricky]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:41:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:03:46 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 28. april 2023 kl. 16.27.48 UTC+2 skrev Anthony William Sloman:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.
You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
that is because they have and had extreme incentives to drive electric making it stupid to do anything else,
no tax or vat on car, half price on ferries and toll roads, free parking, use of bus lanes
all paid for by the state selling of oil and gas
OTPH, i arrived in a school parking lot with 5 ICE cars on 6 chargers, only one available with handicap space. Yesterday, in another school, a teacher-type asked if i am in her school district. I said \"yes\", i am visiting in your district. Any more question and I would have to educate her that the solar panels and chargers were financed by state money and I am a state tax payer.

Such pathetic charging options. It\'s not for everyone.

Yeah, that\'s why Tesla has their own charging network. They knew up front that they could not depend on the free market to keep up with their ambitious goals. But that\'s improving, even if slowly.

I remember people bragging that EA had more charging locations in the US than Tesla did. Unfortunately, they didn\'t consider the high failure rate of non-Tesla chargers. I don\'t actually understand this myself. What is there to break? Electronics is typically very reliable. I guess it\'s more a matter of there not being money to repair them when they do break.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 2:44:46 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

On 4/28/2023 10:29 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I find the routes that say \"go through the traffic light, make a U-turn,
return to the light and then make a LEFT turn\" to be the most puzzling
(this, in stead of just turning RIGHT when you first approach the
intersection???)

Or going an intricate path in an unfamiliar city to find a \"turn left\" (we
drive on the right, remember ;-)) that is explicitly prohibited or just
impossible in the traffic.

I hate when it takes me on a \"TomTom detour\" that saves half a minute on the
map, just to find that I have to cross or join a very busy street, which takes
a minute or two to manage.
Exactly. What sort of \"cost\" data are they storing with these routes?

Google measures the time of other cars on the roads. They get real time data from every Google maps user and possibly the Tesla users as well, since that\'s who provides maps to Tesla, I\'m told.

I do know that Tesla will change the route when traffic problems occur ahead.

SWMBO\'s vehicle once told me my destination was \"400 ft ahead, on the
left\" (it was as I could see it!) AND *8* miles away.

And? How could it be both?
I have no idea! But, I snapped a photo of it!

I also have photos of the \"radio\" showing it is set to \"preset #3\"
at frequency \"123.4\" while the presets displayed on the same screen
show preset #3 is \"456.7\".

What a great car! One with an active imagination! You gotta love that!

--

Rick C.

---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 6:34:09 PM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:29:51 PM UTC-5, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 9:11:43 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:59:44 AM UTC-5, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
...

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week
driving it across the country (instead of 2-3 days).
...

She could have done it in less than 2 days.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38095522/ev-cannonball-record-tesla-model-s/
*Any* ICE can do it in less than two days.
Not when they don\'t sell gasoline anymore. I never realized you were like this, can\'t see the forest for the trees.

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
I keep seeing articles discussing the material needed to make the batteries for EVs. China comes up repeatedly as the source. The U.S. is going to let its potential long term enemy control transportation?
They control everything else! What about needing tungsten from Russia, etc., etc.?
A superpower like the U.S. should be energy independent. This looks like a long term surrender.
We are energy independent. What materials do you think we depend on getting from China for BEV batteries? What are you reading???

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Things like this:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/sp/how-mineral-supply-will-change-ev-forecasts/

Maybe one author is just copying another\'s research, more or less.

Sorry, which materials? I kinda got lost in all the glitz.

This concept ignores the fact that much of this is history and can change as the demand grows. The US is capable of supplying lots of these materials, if they decide it is important.

This is pretty much a Henny Penny argument. \"The sky is falling!\"

--

Rick C.

---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:06:50 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:41:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:03:46 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 28. april 2023 kl. 16.27.48 UTC+2 skrev Anthony William Sloman:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.
You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
that is because they have and had extreme incentives to drive electric making it stupid to do anything else,
no tax or vat on car, half price on ferries and toll roads, free parking, use of bus lanes
all paid for by the state selling of oil and gas
OTPH, i arrived in a school parking lot with 5 ICE cars on 6 chargers, only one available with handicap space. Yesterday, in another school, a teacher-type asked if i am in her school district. I said \"yes\", i am visiting in your district. Any more question and I would have to educate her that the solar panels and chargers were financed by state money and I am a state tax payer.

Such pathetic charging options. It\'s not for everyone.
Yeah, that\'s why Tesla has their own charging network. They knew up front that they could not depend on the free market to keep up with their ambitious goals. But that\'s improving, even if slowly.

I remember people bragging that EA had more charging locations in the US than Tesla did. Unfortunately, they didn\'t consider the high failure rate of non-Tesla chargers. I don\'t actually understand this myself. What is there to break? Electronics is typically very reliable. I guess it\'s more a matter of there not being money to repair them when they do break.

This particular case is not about charger breaking. They are working but completely ICE\'ed. Obviously, the school is not enforcing EV only spaces. The second case is a teacher trying to intimated EV drivers using their equipments funded by the state. Their priorities are certainly not for EV. Unless public perceptions changed, many people are not going EV.

Many government entities simply forget and ignore maintenance after initial construction (and funding). So, we are not really ready for 100% EV yet.

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:33:48 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:06:50 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:41:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:03:46 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 28. april 2023 kl. 16.27.48 UTC+2 skrev Anthony William Sloman:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.
You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
that is because they have and had extreme incentives to drive electric making it stupid to do anything else,
no tax or vat on car, half price on ferries and toll roads, free parking, use of bus lanes
all paid for by the state selling of oil and gas
OTPH, i arrived in a school parking lot with 5 ICE cars on 6 chargers, only one available with handicap space. Yesterday, in another school, a teacher-type asked if i am in her school district. I said \"yes\", i am visiting in your district. Any more question and I would have to educate her that the solar panels and chargers were financed by state money and I am a state tax payer.

Such pathetic charging options. It\'s not for everyone.
Yeah, that\'s why Tesla has their own charging network. They knew up front that they could not depend on the free market to keep up with their ambitious goals. But that\'s improving, even if slowly.

I remember people bragging that EA had more charging locations in the US than Tesla did. Unfortunately, they didn\'t consider the high failure rate of non-Tesla chargers. I don\'t actually understand this myself. What is there to break? Electronics is typically very reliable. I guess it\'s more a matter of there not being money to repair them when they do break.
This particular case is not about charger breaking. They are working but completely ICE\'ed. Obviously, the school is not enforcing EV only spaces. The second case is a teacher trying to intimated EV drivers using their equipments funded by the state. Their priorities are certainly not for EV. Unless public perceptions changed, many people are not going EV.

Many government entities simply forget and ignore maintenance after initial construction (and funding). So, we are not really ready for 100% EV yet.

You mean we are not ready for 100% Leaf yet. I don\'t think we\'ll ever be ready for everyone driving what you drive. I suppose they could put chargers at every mile post. That might make your car practical, for very limited definitions of \"practical\".

I don\'t have these problems in my Tesla. I used to think other brands were ok. But I\'ve been educated by others about the poor charging if you aren\'t driving a Tesla. I guess that\'s why there\'s so much pressure to support other brands at Tesla chargers. That has potential for disaster. Other brands can\'t line up their charging port to the Tesla charger, without blocking access to another charger! I\'m sure they will work it out. Likely they will only support other cars with chargers having two cables. One for lefties, and one for righties.

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:33:48 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:06:50 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:41:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:03:46 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 28. april 2023 kl. 16.27.48 UTC+2 skrev Anthony William Sloman:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.
You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
that is because they have and had extreme incentives to drive electric making it stupid to do anything else,
no tax or vat on car, half price on ferries and toll roads, free parking, use of bus lanes
all paid for by the state selling of oil and gas
OTPH, i arrived in a school parking lot with 5 ICE cars on 6 chargers, only one available with handicap space. Yesterday, in another school, a teacher-type asked if i am in her school district. I said \"yes\", i am visiting in your district. Any more question and I would have to educate her that the solar panels and chargers were financed by state money and I am a state tax payer.

Such pathetic charging options. It\'s not for everyone.
Yeah, that\'s why Tesla has their own charging network. They knew up front that they could not depend on the free market to keep up with their ambitious goals. But that\'s improving, even if slowly.

I remember people bragging that EA had more charging locations in the US than Tesla did. Unfortunately, they didn\'t consider the high failure rate of non-Tesla chargers. I don\'t actually understand this myself. What is there to break? Electronics is typically very reliable. I guess it\'s more a matter of there not being money to repair them when they do break.
This particular case is not about charger breaking. They are working but completely ICE\'ed. Obviously, the school is not enforcing EV only spaces. The second case is a teacher trying to intimated EV drivers using their equipments funded by the state. Their priorities are certainly not for EV. Unless public perceptions changed, many people are not going EV.

Many government entities simply forget and ignore maintenance after initial construction (and funding). So, we are not really ready for 100% EV yet.
You mean we are not ready for 100% Leaf yet. I don\'t think we\'ll ever be ready for everyone driving what you drive. I suppose they could put chargers at every mile post. That might make your car practical, for very limited definitions of \"practical\".

I don\'t have these problems in my Tesla. I used to think other brands were ok. But I\'ve been educated by others about the poor charging if you aren\'t driving a Tesla. I guess that\'s why there\'s so much pressure to support other brands at Tesla chargers. That has potential for disaster. Other brands can\'t line up their charging port to the Tesla charger, without blocking access to another charger! I\'m sure they will work it out. Likely they will only support other cars with chargers having two cables. One for lefties, and one for righties.

We are talking about EVs using public chargers, Tesla or not. I see plenty of Tesla\'s in public chargers and plenty of complaints about chargers not working from Tesla drivers in plugshare. You keep changing the subject, just to advertise Tesla. I am not interested in buying a Tesla and not to associate with Tesla investors.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 1:02:59 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 28 Apr 2023 06:11:38 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
dean...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:59:44?AM UTC-5, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31?AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

<snip>

> > I keep seeing articles discussing the material needed to make the batteries for EVs. China comes up repeatedly as the source. The U.S. is going to let its potential long term enemy control transportation?

A country like China a can sell minerals cheaply enough to bankrupt all the mines outside China. then exploit their monopoly to get exorbitant prices.

The US has anti-trust legislation to stop US companies pulling that trick within the country.

A superpower like the U.S. should be energy independent. This looks like a long term surrender.

It is, by design.

If you define \"design\" in the same way that John Larkin does.

What actually happened was the Republicans weren\'t prepared to spend on on subsidising US mines to keep them running as a strategic back-up.

If they had, the Chinese wouldn\'t have persisted in running their own mines at a loss.

It was simple stupidity.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Ed Lee]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:38:17 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 1:02:59 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2023 06:11:38 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman
dean...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:59:44?AM UTC-5, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31?AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I keep seeing articles discussing the material needed to make the batteries for EVs. China comes up repeatedly as the source. The U.S. is going to let its potential long term enemy control transportation?
A country like China a can sell minerals cheaply enough to bankrupt all the mines outside China. then exploit their monopoly to get exorbitant prices.

The US has anti-trust legislation to stop US companies pulling that trick within the country.
A superpower like the U.S. should be energy independent. This looks like a long term surrender.

It is, by design.
If you define \"design\" in the same way that John Larkin does.

What actually happened was the Republicans weren\'t prepared to spend on on subsidising US mines to keep them running as a strategic back-up.

We, R and/or D, are not prepared to subsidise on any mines at all. The solution is anti-dumping tariff. In case of China, all products should be subject to 50% tariffs. They will then have less money to help/aid Russia indirectly.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 1:45:12 AM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.

You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Not in my life time. We all want BEV to be higher, but the fact is in fact a matter of fact.

You life time is likely to be short. Not being all that clever puts you at risk, so you may be right.

Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway#/media/FileEVs_in_use_Top_countries_&_regional_markets_2020.png

#1 is 23%, #2 is 10% #3 is 6%, the rest are less than 5%. I should say 20% to 30% top for the USA.

Of course you would - you just did in a previous post - but you aren\'t a reliable prophet.

About 75% of the car now being sold there are electric, so that number is going to keep on going up.

I drive a Leaf golf cart. Rick drives a Tesla computer. What do you drive?

A Mercedes B180. My wife bought it ten years ago when we moved back to Australia because it had fully adjustable front passenger seat, and it is still running fine (though it doesn\'t get a lot of use) and there\'s no need to replace it. I\'d probably replace it with an electric vehicle if it became necessary to replace it.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Ed Lee]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:54:22 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 1:45:12 AM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.

You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Not in my life time. We all want BEV to be higher, but the fact is in fact a matter of fact.
You life time is likely to be short. Not being all that clever puts you at risk, so you may be right.
Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway#/media/FileEVs_in_use_Top_countries_&_regional_markets_2020.png

#1 is 23%, #2 is 10% #3 is 6%, the rest are less than 5%. I should say 20% to 30% top for the USA.
Of course you would - you just did in a previous post - but you aren\'t a reliable prophet.
About 75% of the car now being sold there are electric, so that number is going to keep on going up.

I drive a Leaf golf cart. Rick drives a Tesla computer. What do you drive?
A Mercedes B180. My wife bought it ten years ago when we moved back to Australia because it had fully adjustable front passenger seat, and it is still running fine (though it doesn\'t get a lot of use) and there\'s no need to replace it. I\'d probably replace it with an electric vehicle if it became necessary to replace it.

So, you are driving ICE to the ground while telling everybody to drive EV to save your environment. Isn\'t it hypocritical?

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:03:14 AM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:30:27 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-28 16:27, Don Y wrote:
On 4/28/2023 5:18 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
That information would also be useful for gasoline cars. My country is
hilly, I would like to know the height profile of the proposed paths..

frown> I have found this, recently, *somewhere*. Though I can\'t
recall what I may have been looking for at the time.

That reminds me, that the TomTom never tells me to take a tunnel or
high pass. Says keep left or right instead (\"take the tunnel\" would be
way more useful). It has no information of the height I am at.

Yeah, navigation systems leave a lot to be desired. \"Local knowledge\"
is often keenly missing. They all tell me to head out \"the back way\"
for many of my destinations. But, the back way is (permanently) gated
shut -- as anyone who lives here would know.

The nav system in the car at least lets me add artificial \"keep outs\"
to prevent it from proposing those routes.

OTOH, there are times it tells me I am driving over \"grass\" because
it isn\'t aware of a new road or bridge, etc.

There is a parking lot near me, where it proposes a path right through
the wall of the basement, because it thinks I am at ground level.

I find the routes that say \"go through the traffic light, make a U-turn,
return to the light and then make a LEFT turn\" to be the most puzzling
(this, in stead of just turning RIGHT when you first approach the
intersection???)
Or going an intricate path in an unfamiliar city to find a \"turn left\"
(we drive on the right, remember ;-)) that is explicitly prohibited or
just impossible in the traffic.

I hate when it takes me on a \"TomTom detour\" that saves half a minute on
the map, just to find that I have to cross or join a very busy street,
which takes a minute or two to manage.
Strange. The navigators I use are measuring traffic times, so they take you on paths that don\'t have significant delays like this. When going to my hometown, I prefer to take a more back route. The navigator just looks at the trip times and usually wants me to go the main highway. But when the traffic is bad, it agrees with me and recommends the back route. I guess TomTom doesn\'t actually have real time data to work with. Try Google maps on your phone, or Waze.

Tom Tom does have real time data to work with. I think they get it by monitoring anonymised mobile phone locations as supplied by mobile phone networks. The last time I read the bumf, they talked about averaging one hour chunks over the busy parts of the day.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 1:58:01 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:54:22 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 1:45:12 AM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.

You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Not in my life time. We all want BEV to be higher, but the fact is in fact a matter of fact.
You life time is likely to be short. Not being all that clever puts you at risk, so you may be right.
Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway#/media/FileEVs_in_use_Top_countries_&_regional_markets_2020.png

#1 is 23%, #2 is 10% #3 is 6%, the rest are less than 5%. I should say 20% to 30% top for the USA.
Of course you would - you just did in a previous post - but you aren\'t a reliable prophet.
About 75% of the car now being sold there are electric, so that number is going to keep on going up.

I drive a Leaf golf cart. Rick drives a Tesla computer. What do you drive?
A Mercedes B180. My wife bought it ten years ago when we moved back to Australia because it had fully adjustable front passenger seat, and it is still running fine (though it doesn\'t get a lot of use) and there\'s no need to replace it. I\'d probably replace it with an electric vehicle if it became necessary to replace it.

So, you are driving ICE to the ground while telling everybody to drive EV to save your environment. Isn\'t it hypocritical?

It would be if that\'s what I was doing. What I actually say is that we need to move to electric vehicles as fast as is practical. I last refilled my gasoline tank in October, so the car isn\'t actually burning a lot of fossil carbon. My electricity consumption - about 50% of Australia\'s electricity still comes from burning fossil carbon, and much of it coal, is a whole lot more embarrassing, but I can\'t do anything about that.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Ed Lee]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 9:16:49 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 1:58:01 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:54:22 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 1:45:12 AM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.

You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Not in my life time. We all want BEV to be higher, but the fact is in fact a matter of fact.
You life time is likely to be short. Not being all that clever puts you at risk, so you may be right.
Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway#/media/FileEVs_in_use_Top_countries_&_regional_markets_2020.png

#1 is 23%, #2 is 10% #3 is 6%, the rest are less than 5%. I should say 20% to 30% top for the USA.
Of course you would - you just did in a previous post - but you aren\'t a reliable prophet.
About 75% of the car now being sold there are electric, so that number is going to keep on going up.

I drive a Leaf golf cart. Rick drives a Tesla computer. What do you drive?
A Mercedes B180. My wife bought it ten years ago when we moved back to Australia because it had fully adjustable front passenger seat, and it is still running fine (though it doesn\'t get a lot of use) and there\'s no need to replace it. I\'d probably replace it with an electric vehicle if it became necessary to replace it.

So, you are driving ICE to the ground while telling everybody to drive EV to save your environment. Isn\'t it hypocritical?
It would be if that\'s what I was doing. What I actually say is that we need to move to electric vehicles as fast as is practical. I last refilled my gasoline tank in October, so the car isn\'t actually burning a lot of fossil carbon. My electricity consumption - about 50% of Australia\'s electricity still comes from burning fossil carbon, and much of it coal, is a whole lot more embarrassing, but I can\'t do anything about that.

Now is as practical as any time. You don\'t have to be the last to convert before 2040 as you claimed. Unfortunately, there will be plenty of people like you who would defer switching to EV until the last moment, well after 2040.

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:33:48 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:06:50 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:41:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:03:46 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 28. april 2023 kl. 16.27.48 UTC+2 skrev Anthony William Sloman:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.
You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
that is because they have and had extreme incentives to drive electric making it stupid to do anything else,
no tax or vat on car, half price on ferries and toll roads, free parking, use of bus lanes
all paid for by the state selling of oil and gas
OTPH, i arrived in a school parking lot with 5 ICE cars on 6 chargers, only one available with handicap space. Yesterday, in another school, a teacher-type asked if i am in her school district. I said \"yes\", i am visiting in your district. Any more question and I would have to educate her that the solar panels and chargers were financed by state money and I am a state tax payer.

Such pathetic charging options. It\'s not for everyone.
Yeah, that\'s why Tesla has their own charging network. They knew up front that they could not depend on the free market to keep up with their ambitious goals. But that\'s improving, even if slowly.

I remember people bragging that EA had more charging locations in the US than Tesla did. Unfortunately, they didn\'t consider the high failure rate of non-Tesla chargers. I don\'t actually understand this myself. What is there to break? Electronics is typically very reliable. I guess it\'s more a matter of there not being money to repair them when they do break.
This particular case is not about charger breaking. They are working but completely ICE\'ed. Obviously, the school is not enforcing EV only spaces. The second case is a teacher trying to intimated EV drivers using their equipments funded by the state. Their priorities are certainly not for EV. Unless public perceptions changed, many people are not going EV.

Many government entities simply forget and ignore maintenance after initial construction (and funding). So, we are not really ready for 100% EV yet.
You mean we are not ready for 100% Leaf yet. I don\'t think we\'ll ever be ready for everyone driving what you drive. I suppose they could put chargers at every mile post. That might make your car practical, for very limited definitions of \"practical\".

I don\'t have these problems in my Tesla. I used to think other brands were ok. But I\'ve been educated by others about the poor charging if you aren\'t driving a Tesla. I guess that\'s why there\'s so much pressure to support other brands at Tesla chargers. That has potential for disaster. Other brands can\'t line up their charging port to the Tesla charger, without blocking access to another charger! I\'m sure they will work it out. Likely they will only support other cars with chargers having two cables. One for lefties, and one for righties.
We are talking about EVs using public chargers, Tesla or not. I see plenty of Tesla\'s in public chargers and plenty of complaints about chargers not working from Tesla drivers in plugshare. You keep changing the subject, just to advertise Tesla. I am not interested in buying a Tesla and not to associate with Tesla investors.

Maybe you see complaints of Tesla chargers not working, but Tesla chargers are in groups of typically 8, up to 40. I\'ve never seen a defective Tesla charger causing a problem with charging. There are multiple reports by people on cross-country test trips, being stuck because they came to a non-Tesla charging site and could not proceed because of charger malfunctions. I guess it\'s just coincidence that this happens to people giving BEVs a trial run?

I\'m not changing the subject and I\'m not trying to advertise anything. I\'m reporting the facts of BEVs. While the non-Tesla chargers claim to be much more numerous, the reality is they are counting the level 2 chargers that are not effective for long trips other than overnight, and \"fast\" chargers that are far too slow for in route charging, such as the 50 kW Chademo chargers.

I will actually be using one of the slowest Tesla chargers tomorrow. On my way to the airport, I need a charge because of my 12V battery failing, causing the car to lose 6% of its charge per day. The closest one is a 75 kW \"Urban\" charger (a poorly thought out idea from the early days of Superchargers) which will give me time to have lunch without rushing. So it\'s not all bad.

Your opinions are of literally no value to the issues of BEV charging, due to the nearly insane efforts you are willing to go through to drive what is barely a golf cart on highways. You clearly are outside the 99th percentile, so are not remotely like the car buying public.

But once in a while, you come up with some interesting facts.

--

Rick C.

--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:59:45 PM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:03:14 AM UTC+10, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:30:27 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-28 16:27, Don Y wrote:
On 4/28/2023 5:18 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
That information would also be useful for gasoline cars. My country is
hilly, I would like to know the height profile of the proposed paths.

frown> I have found this, recently, *somewhere*. Though I can\'t
recall what I may have been looking for at the time.

That reminds me, that the TomTom never tells me to take a tunnel or
high pass. Says keep left or right instead (\"take the tunnel\" would be
way more useful). It has no information of the height I am at.

Yeah, navigation systems leave a lot to be desired. \"Local knowledge\"
is often keenly missing. They all tell me to head out \"the back way\"
for many of my destinations. But, the back way is (permanently) gated
shut -- as anyone who lives here would know.

The nav system in the car at least lets me add artificial \"keep outs\"
to prevent it from proposing those routes.

OTOH, there are times it tells me I am driving over \"grass\" because
it isn\'t aware of a new road or bridge, etc.

There is a parking lot near me, where it proposes a path right through
the wall of the basement, because it thinks I am at ground level.

I find the routes that say \"go through the traffic light, make a U-turn,
return to the light and then make a LEFT turn\" to be the most puzzling
(this, in stead of just turning RIGHT when you first approach the
intersection???)
Or going an intricate path in an unfamiliar city to find a \"turn left\"
(we drive on the right, remember ;-)) that is explicitly prohibited or
just impossible in the traffic.

I hate when it takes me on a \"TomTom detour\" that saves half a minute on
the map, just to find that I have to cross or join a very busy street,
which takes a minute or two to manage.
Strange. The navigators I use are measuring traffic times, so they take you on paths that don\'t have significant delays like this. When going to my hometown, I prefer to take a more back route. The navigator just looks at the trip times and usually wants me to go the main highway. But when the traffic is bad, it agrees with me and recommends the back route. I guess TomTom doesn\'t actually have real time data to work with. Try Google maps on your phone, or Waze.
Tom Tom does have real time data to work with. I think they get it by monitoring anonymised mobile phone locations as supplied by mobile phone networks. The last time I read the bumf, they talked about averaging one hour chunks over the busy parts of the day.

I guess they just don\'t make good use of it then, since the users seem to find it problematic.

--

Rick C.

-+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 9:39:02 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:33:48 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:06:50 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:41:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:03:46 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 28. april 2023 kl. 16.27.48 UTC+2 skrev Anthony William Sloman:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear.. I am a realist, you are an idealist.
You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
that is because they have and had extreme incentives to drive electric making it stupid to do anything else,
no tax or vat on car, half price on ferries and toll roads, free parking, use of bus lanes
all paid for by the state selling of oil and gas
OTPH, i arrived in a school parking lot with 5 ICE cars on 6 chargers, only one available with handicap space. Yesterday, in another school, a teacher-type asked if i am in her school district. I said \"yes\", i am visiting in your district. Any more question and I would have to educate her that the solar panels and chargers were financed by state money and I am a state tax payer.

Such pathetic charging options. It\'s not for everyone.
Yeah, that\'s why Tesla has their own charging network. They knew up front that they could not depend on the free market to keep up with their ambitious goals. But that\'s improving, even if slowly.

I remember people bragging that EA had more charging locations in the US than Tesla did. Unfortunately, they didn\'t consider the high failure rate of non-Tesla chargers. I don\'t actually understand this myself. What is there to break? Electronics is typically very reliable. I guess it\'s more a matter of there not being money to repair them when they do break.
This particular case is not about charger breaking. They are working but completely ICE\'ed. Obviously, the school is not enforcing EV only spaces. The second case is a teacher trying to intimated EV drivers using their equipments funded by the state. Their priorities are certainly not for EV.. Unless public perceptions changed, many people are not going EV.

Many government entities simply forget and ignore maintenance after initial construction (and funding). So, we are not really ready for 100% EV yet.
You mean we are not ready for 100% Leaf yet. I don\'t think we\'ll ever be ready for everyone driving what you drive. I suppose they could put chargers at every mile post. That might make your car practical, for very limited definitions of \"practical\".

I don\'t have these problems in my Tesla. I used to think other brands were ok. But I\'ve been educated by others about the poor charging if you aren\'t driving a Tesla. I guess that\'s why there\'s so much pressure to support other brands at Tesla chargers. That has potential for disaster. Other brands can\'t line up their charging port to the Tesla charger, without blocking access to another charger! I\'m sure they will work it out. Likely they will only support other cars with chargers having two cables. One for lefties, and one for righties.
We are talking about EVs using public chargers, Tesla or not. I see plenty of Tesla\'s in public chargers and plenty of complaints about chargers not working from Tesla drivers in plugshare. You keep changing the subject, just to advertise Tesla. I am not interested in buying a Tesla and not to associate with Tesla investors.
Maybe you see complaints of Tesla chargers not working, but Tesla chargers are in groups of typically 8, up to 40. I\'ve never seen a defective Tesla charger causing a problem with charging. There are multiple reports by people on cross-country test trips, being stuck because they came to a non-Tesla charging site and could not proceed because of charger malfunctions. I guess it\'s just coincidence that this happens to people giving BEVs a trial run?

You are twisting my statement. I said many Tesla drivers complaints about public (non-Tesla) chargers. They obviously use non-Tesla public chargers, unlike you.

> I\'m not changing the subject and I\'m not trying to advertise anything. I\'m reporting the facts of BEVs. While the non-Tesla chargers claim to be much more numerous, the reality is they are counting the level 2 chargers that are not effective for long trips other than overnight, and \"fast\" chargers that are far too slow for in route charging, such as the 50 kW Chademo chargers.

A single L1 charger (perhaps driven by generator) between Tulare and Delano would be enough to bridge the gap. The fact that they don\'t care to provide a simple solution means that it is not a priority for them. But it\'s a priority for drivers not to drive EV between the locations. I probably could have made the gap, but why bother when there is a easier way with the detour.

In fact, I carry a solution with me (L1 + generator). I don\'t use it unless absolutely necessary.

Perception of the public is that the governments are insensitive to EV needs and would hesitate to switch to EV.

See what they do, not what they say:
Government supports EV charging, but real action leave something to be desired.
Bill in Australia might get a EV before 2040,but likely keeping ICE as main vehicle. He claim to care/understand the env; so he is in the \"likely\" category. However, there are still many \"probably\", \"improbably\", \"unlikely\", \"definitely not\" and \"absolutely not\" drivers.

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:00:15 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 9:39:02 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:33:48 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:06:50 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:41:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:03:46 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 28. april 2023 kl. 16.27.48 UTC+2 skrev Anthony William Sloman:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.
You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
that is because they have and had extreme incentives to drive electric making it stupid to do anything else,
no tax or vat on car, half price on ferries and toll roads, free parking, use of bus lanes
all paid for by the state selling of oil and gas
OTPH, i arrived in a school parking lot with 5 ICE cars on 6 chargers, only one available with handicap space. Yesterday, in another school, a teacher-type asked if i am in her school district. I said \"yes\", i am visiting in your district. Any more question and I would have to educate her that the solar panels and chargers were financed by state money and I am a state tax payer.

Such pathetic charging options. It\'s not for everyone.
Yeah, that\'s why Tesla has their own charging network. They knew up front that they could not depend on the free market to keep up with their ambitious goals. But that\'s improving, even if slowly.

I remember people bragging that EA had more charging locations in the US than Tesla did. Unfortunately, they didn\'t consider the high failure rate of non-Tesla chargers. I don\'t actually understand this myself. What is there to break? Electronics is typically very reliable. I guess it\'s more a matter of there not being money to repair them when they do break.
This particular case is not about charger breaking. They are working but completely ICE\'ed. Obviously, the school is not enforcing EV only spaces. The second case is a teacher trying to intimated EV drivers using their equipments funded by the state. Their priorities are certainly not for EV. Unless public perceptions changed, many people are not going EV.

Many government entities simply forget and ignore maintenance after initial construction (and funding). So, we are not really ready for 100% EV yet.
You mean we are not ready for 100% Leaf yet. I don\'t think we\'ll ever be ready for everyone driving what you drive. I suppose they could put chargers at every mile post. That might make your car practical, for very limited definitions of \"practical\".

I don\'t have these problems in my Tesla. I used to think other brands were ok. But I\'ve been educated by others about the poor charging if you aren\'t driving a Tesla. I guess that\'s why there\'s so much pressure to support other brands at Tesla chargers. That has potential for disaster. Other brands can\'t line up their charging port to the Tesla charger, without blocking access to another charger! I\'m sure they will work it out. Likely they will only support other cars with chargers having two cables. One for lefties, and one for righties.
We are talking about EVs using public chargers, Tesla or not. I see plenty of Tesla\'s in public chargers and plenty of complaints about chargers not working from Tesla drivers in plugshare. You keep changing the subject, just to advertise Tesla. I am not interested in buying a Tesla and not to associate with Tesla investors.
Maybe you see complaints of Tesla chargers not working, but Tesla chargers are in groups of typically 8, up to 40. I\'ve never seen a defective Tesla charger causing a problem with charging. There are multiple reports by people on cross-country test trips, being stuck because they came to a non-Tesla charging site and could not proceed because of charger malfunctions. I guess it\'s just coincidence that this happens to people giving BEVs a trial run?
You are twisting my statement. I said many Tesla drivers complaints about public (non-Tesla) chargers. They obviously use non-Tesla public chargers, unlike you.

Sorry, I didn\'t catch that. Yes, some people buy the adapter and using CCS chargers, but not so many. There\'s very little need. I\'ve looked, and there are relatively few CCS chargers where I drive, other than the low wattage units installed at Royal Farms and similar places.

I\'m not changing the subject and I\'m not trying to advertise anything. I\'m reporting the facts of BEVs. While the non-Tesla chargers claim to be much more numerous, the reality is they are counting the level 2 chargers that are not effective for long trips other than overnight, and \"fast\" chargers that are far too slow for in route charging, such as the 50 kW Chademo chargers.
A single L1 charger (perhaps driven by generator) between Tulare and Delano would be enough to bridge the gap. The fact that they don\'t care to provide a simple solution means that it is not a priority for them. But it\'s a priority for drivers not to drive EV between the locations. I probably could have made the gap, but why bother when there is a easier way with the detour.

Sorry, but I\'ve explained before that your use case is unique in the world of BEVs. Literally no one else in 100,000 BEV owners would consider using an L1 charger in any but the most dire circumstance. Also, they don\'t try to drive a couple of hundred miles on a 40 mile battery.


> In fact, I carry a solution with me (L1 + generator). I don\'t use it unless absolutely necessary.

Meaning, you should have bought a hybrid, and been done with it.


> Perception of the public is that the governments are insensitive to EV needs and would hesitate to switch to EV.

What does the government have to do with it. Driving a Tesla has nothing to do with the government. Are the other brands somehow only enabled if the government gets involved? Sounds like something to avoid, if at all possible.

See what they do, not what they say:
Government supports EV charging, but real action leave something to be desired.
Bill in Australia might get a EV before 2040,but likely keeping ICE as main vehicle. He claim to care/understand the env; so he is in the \"likely\" category. However, there are still many \"probably\", \"improbably\", \"unlikely\", \"definitely not\" and \"absolutely not\" drivers.

Yeah, lots of people have lots of opinions. The reality is we will all be driving BEVs by 2040 or so. It\'s a matter of lack of choice if nothing else. Once we reach 50% BEV ownership, the tipple will flip over and gas stations will be closing en mass, service will be disappearing and the resale value of an ICE car will plummet. There will be one in a hundred who clutches his ignition key and buys gas at McDonalds... lol But everyone else will realize BEVs are very practical and that it\'s just not the problem that the John Larkins of the world try to make it.

--

Rick C.

-+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 6:38:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:00:15 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 9:39:02 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 6:46:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:33:48 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:06:50 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:41:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 10:03:46 AM UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 28. april 2023 kl. 16.27.48 UTC+2 skrev Anthony William Sloman:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:37:00 PM UTC+10, Ed Lee wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:46:20 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
snip
I see BEV peaking at 20% to 30%. ICE will never disappear. I am a realist, you are an idealist.
You like to think that you are a realist, but you don\'t think well enough to make the cut.

We can\'t afford to have lot of people burning gasoline in cars, so EV\'s are going to end up with at least 99% of the market. but it is going to take a while to get there.

Norway has already got to 23.1% electric vehicles on its roads.
that is because they have and had extreme incentives to drive electric making it stupid to do anything else,
no tax or vat on car, half price on ferries and toll roads, free parking, use of bus lanes
all paid for by the state selling of oil and gas
OTPH, i arrived in a school parking lot with 5 ICE cars on 6 chargers, only one available with handicap space. Yesterday, in another school, a teacher-type asked if i am in her school district. I said \"yes\", i am visiting in your district. Any more question and I would have to educate her that the solar panels and chargers were financed by state money and I am a state tax payer.

Such pathetic charging options. It\'s not for everyone.
Yeah, that\'s why Tesla has their own charging network. They knew up front that they could not depend on the free market to keep up with their ambitious goals. But that\'s improving, even if slowly.

I remember people bragging that EA had more charging locations in the US than Tesla did. Unfortunately, they didn\'t consider the high failure rate of non-Tesla chargers. I don\'t actually understand this myself. What is there to break? Electronics is typically very reliable. I guess it\'s more a matter of there not being money to repair them when they do break.
This particular case is not about charger breaking. They are working but completely ICE\'ed. Obviously, the school is not enforcing EV only spaces. The second case is a teacher trying to intimated EV drivers using their equipments funded by the state. Their priorities are certainly not for EV. Unless public perceptions changed, many people are not going EV.

Many government entities simply forget and ignore maintenance after initial construction (and funding). So, we are not really ready for 100% EV yet.
You mean we are not ready for 100% Leaf yet. I don\'t think we\'ll ever be ready for everyone driving what you drive. I suppose they could put chargers at every mile post. That might make your car practical, for very limited definitions of \"practical\".

I don\'t have these problems in my Tesla. I used to think other brands were ok. But I\'ve been educated by others about the poor charging if you aren\'t driving a Tesla. I guess that\'s why there\'s so much pressure to support other brands at Tesla chargers. That has potential for disaster. Other brands can\'t line up their charging port to the Tesla charger, without blocking access to another charger! I\'m sure they will work it out. Likely they will only support other cars with chargers having two cables. One for lefties, and one for righties.
We are talking about EVs using public chargers, Tesla or not. I see plenty of Tesla\'s in public chargers and plenty of complaints about chargers not working from Tesla drivers in plugshare. You keep changing the subject, just to advertise Tesla. I am not interested in buying a Tesla and not to associate with Tesla investors.
Maybe you see complaints of Tesla chargers not working, but Tesla chargers are in groups of typically 8, up to 40. I\'ve never seen a defective Tesla charger causing a problem with charging. There are multiple reports by people on cross-country test trips, being stuck because they came to a non-Tesla charging site and could not proceed because of charger malfunctions. I guess it\'s just coincidence that this happens to people giving BEVs a trial run?
You are twisting my statement. I said many Tesla drivers complaints about public (non-Tesla) chargers. They obviously use non-Tesla public chargers, unlike you.
Sorry, I didn\'t catch that. Yes, some people buy the adapter and using CCS chargers, but not so many. There\'s very little need. I\'ve looked, and there are relatively few CCS chargers where I drive, other than the low wattage units installed at Royal Farms and similar places.

No, they are using the ChaDeMod adapter. I see Tesla with them all the time. You are not looking or choose not to look. May be we are in different Tesla universe.

I\'m not changing the subject and I\'m not trying to advertise anything.. I\'m reporting the facts of BEVs. While the non-Tesla chargers claim to be much more numerous, the reality is they are counting the level 2 chargers that are not effective for long trips other than overnight, and \"fast\" chargers that are far too slow for in route charging, such as the 50 kW Chademo chargers.
A single L1 charger (perhaps driven by generator) between Tulare and Delano would be enough to bridge the gap. The fact that they don\'t care to provide a simple solution means that it is not a priority for them. But it\'s a priority for drivers not to drive EV between the locations. I probably could have made the gap, but why bother when there is a easier way with the detour.
Sorry, but I\'ve explained before that your use case is unique in the world of BEVs. Literally no one else in 100,000 BEV owners would consider using an L1 charger in any but the most dire circumstance. Also, they don\'t try to drive a couple of hundred miles on a 40 mile battery.
In fact, I carry a solution with me (L1 + generator). I don\'t use it unless absolutely necessary.
Meaning, you should have bought a hybrid, and been done with it.

I only need it once or twice a year. Why carry extra all the time.

Perception of the public is that the governments are insensitive to EV needs and would hesitate to switch to EV.
What does the government have to do with it. Driving a Tesla has nothing to do with the government. Are the other brands somehow only enabled if the government gets involved? Sounds like something to avoid, if at all possible.
See what they do, not what they say:
Government supports EV charging, but real action leave something to be desired.
Bill in Australia might get a EV before 2040,but likely keeping ICE as main vehicle. He claim to care/understand the env; so he is in the \"likely\" category. However, there are still many \"probably\", \"improbably\", \"unlikely\", \"definitely not\" and \"absolutely not\" drivers.
Yeah, lots of people have lots of opinions. The reality is we will all be driving BEVs by 2040 or so. It\'s a matter of lack of choice if nothing else. Once we reach 50% BEV ownership, the tipple will flip over and gas stations will be closing en mass, service will be disappearing and the resale value of an ICE car will plummet. There will be one in a hundred who clutches his ignition key and buys gas at McDonalds... lol But everyone else will realize BEVs are very practical and that it\'s just not the problem that the John Larkins of the world try to make it.

I don\'t see it happening. There were 800k EV out of 13M sold last year. Tesla is around 60%. I don\'t see it ramping up to millions, not by 2040, perhaps 2050, 2060, 2070, 2080 or 2090.

In case you haven\'t notice. Tesla dropped prices 5x to move cars. They are not thinking expansion.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-29 01:11, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 2:44:46 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/28/2023 10:29 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I find the routes that say \"go through the traffic light, make a U-turn,
return to the light and then make a LEFT turn\" to be the most puzzling
(this, in stead of just turning RIGHT when you first approach the
intersection???)

Or going an intricate path in an unfamiliar city to find a \"turn left\" (we
drive on the right, remember ;-)) that is explicitly prohibited or just
impossible in the traffic.

I hate when it takes me on a \"TomTom detour\" that saves half a minute on the
map, just to find that I have to cross or join a very busy street, which takes
a minute or two to manage.
Exactly. What sort of \"cost\" data are they storing with these routes?

Google measures the time of other cars on the roads. They get real time data from every Google maps user and possibly the Tesla users as well, since that\'s who provides maps to Tesla, I\'m told.

Doesn\'t work for \"TomTom detours\", because none of the locals take them.
No traffic, no info.

Or, they are indeed local people that know that detour and how to run it
fast.

I do know that Tesla will change the route when traffic problems occur ahead.

Yes, so does the TomTom.


....

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-29 01:03, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:30:27 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-28 16:27, Don Y wrote:
On 4/28/2023 5:18 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
That information would also be useful for gasoline cars. My country is
hilly, I would like to know the height profile of the proposed paths.

frown> I have found this, recently, *somewhere*. Though I can\'t
recall what I may have been looking for at the time.

That reminds me, that the TomTom never tells me to take a tunnel or
high pass. Says keep left or right instead (\"take the tunnel\" would be
way more useful). It has no information of the height I am at.

Yeah, navigation systems leave a lot to be desired. \"Local knowledge\"
is often keenly missing. They all tell me to head out \"the back way\"
for many of my destinations. But, the back way is (permanently) gated
shut -- as anyone who lives here would know.

The nav system in the car at least lets me add artificial \"keep outs\"
to prevent it from proposing those routes.

OTOH, there are times it tells me I am driving over \"grass\" because
it isn\'t aware of a new road or bridge, etc.

There is a parking lot near me, where it proposes a path right through
the wall of the basement, because it thinks I am at ground level.

I find the routes that say \"go through the traffic light, make a U-turn,
return to the light and then make a LEFT turn\" to be the most puzzling
(this, in stead of just turning RIGHT when you first approach the
intersection???)
Or going an intricate path in an unfamiliar city to find a \"turn left\"
(we drive on the right, remember ;-)) that is explicitly prohibited or
just impossible in the traffic.

I hate when it takes me on a \"TomTom detour\" that saves half a minute on
the map, just to find that I have to cross or join a very busy street,
which takes a minute or two to manage.

Strange. The navigators I use are measuring traffic times, so they take you on paths that don\'t have significant delays like this. When going to my hometown, I prefer to take a more back route. The navigator just looks at the trip times and usually wants me to go the main highway. But when the traffic is bad, it agrees with me and recommends the back route. I guess TomTom doesn\'t actually have real time data to work with. Try Google maps on your phone, or Waze.

TomTom does have real time information of their own. Doesn\'t mean the
information of one of their funky detours is good.

Sometimes Google maps, if I have it running at the same time, offers
similar detours.

--
Cheers, Carlos.