Stalled EV...

[Don Y]

On 4/27/2023 9:34 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 07.56.23 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

how much amphetamine do you need to make 2000 miles with out breaks?

I\'ve done that several times (no drugs)! But, I was considerably
younger. Drive 250-300 miles (so you don\'t exhaust the tank).
Pull over for gas and piss. Get back in car and do another 250-300
miles.

Boston to Chicago is only 20 hours. Comparable to going to Miami.
40 hours to Denver. About 60 to SF. And, these are somewhat leisurely
rates.

A friend has a 160G \"expansion tank\" on his truck and does the trip
to Kansas City in ~18 hours (~1200 miles and no stops) BTW, he\'s 75.

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 1:09:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 7:54:48 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 10:33:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 5:32:38 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.
Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.
I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations. These other products, especially Tesla, are complete amateurs compared to what google could do. Maybe they don\'t want to contribute to people squandering energy on joy rides, or something.
For such long trip in EV desert, I would carry a generator. In fact, I have a new (never used) one for years, just for emergency. The problem is that once used, I have to keep using it couple of time per month, to keep it in working order. I wonder if it\'s better to disassembly and clean the gasket after every use.
You are the joke, that everyone makes about BEVs towing a generator, with an extension cord plugged into the car. The key word in all this is \"joke\". Ed Lee stands alone in the BEV world.
It\'s only 30 pounds, no need to tow it, but it take up cargo space and smelly. I can probably put it on roof top.

It also will only propel your car at 10 MPH. That\'s the insanity of the way you drive your car. Most of us think of cars as expedient ways of getting from A to B. You think of the car as the purpose and getting somewhere is simply a side benefit. So, you don\'t mind doing insane things to charge the car.

Only Ed Lee.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 1:22:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

You also will likely need to avoid ethanol as it wreaks havoc on small engines.
How so? Not enough power? How about adding octant booster?

Kind of defeating the backup purpose, if I can\'t just buy gas on the road..

He\'s talking about the small engines, like weed whackers, being built using material that are degraded by alcohol. Mostly it\'s the plastics in the fuel line, I believe. The gaskets are a fibrous material, but may have some plastic or rubber content, since that is what makes the valves for the gas pump. These things barely work.

A friend gave me a mower once, that had some starting issues. It would work, but once shut off, might not want to restart. I found by accident, that adding a bit more gas to the tank, would usually allow it to start. Turns out the flapper valve was in poor shape. With a full tank of gas, the difference in pressure was enough to pull some gas into the engine on starting, and of course, it was fine when it was running. But starting with less than an inch of gas and it just would not fire. Squirt some ether into the carb and it would take off. Put more gas in the tank and it would start.

I never replaced the carb gasket. I just kept more gas in the tank. lol

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 1:30:57 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

On 4/27/2023 9:34 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 07.56.23 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

how much amphetamine do you need to make 2000 miles with out breaks?
I\'ve done that several times (no drugs)! But, I was considerably
younger. Drive 250-300 miles (so you don\'t exhaust the tank).
Pull over for gas and piss. Get back in car and do another 250-300
miles.

Boston to Chicago is only 20 hours. Comparable to going to Miami.
40 hours to Denver. About 60 to SF. And, these are somewhat leisurely
rates.

A friend has a 160G \"expansion tank\" on his truck and does the trip
to Kansas City in ~18 hours (~1200 miles and no stops) BTW, he\'s 75.

People don\'t buy cars for a once in a decade need. By 2040, you won\'t have a choice. Cars on the roads will be 95%+ BEVs, probably more like 99%+ and gas stations will be like charging today. You will need a trip planner to make sure you can get somewhere to buy gas, before you empty the tank.

Many people simply can\'t imagine that this change will happen rather quickly, as paradigm changes go. It will also be nearly total, as ICE require too much infrastructure to maintain for small numbers of vehicles.

Even with only 90% BEVs on the road, imagine 90% of gas stations closed. 90% of ICE repair garages closed. It will be hard to find oil and filters. That\'s the sort of stuff stores don\'t make much money on, but they carry to get people in the store, where they buy other things. Once the sales volume drops, there\'s no longer a reason to take up so much shelf space. It will be like vacuum tube, where you order from Russia, because they are the only ones making them.

There\'s no reason to rush out and buy a BEV today. But don\'t kid yourself that you will continue to have a choice in 15 to 20 years. Industries don\'t support loners.

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 19.30.57 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:

On 4/27/2023 9:34 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 07.56.23 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

how much amphetamine do you need to make 2000 miles with out breaks?
I\'ve done that several times (no drugs)! But, I was considerably
younger. Drive 250-300 miles (so you don\'t exhaust the tank).
Pull over for gas and piss. Get back in car and do another 250-300
miles.

Boston to Chicago is only 20 hours. Comparable to going to Miami.
40 hours to Denver. About 60 to SF. And, these are somewhat leisurely
rates.

A friend has a 160G \"expansion tank\" on his truck and does the trip
to Kansas City in ~18 hours (~1200 miles and no stops) BTW, he\'s 75.

there\'s a reason why truck drivers are required to take 45 minutes rest every 4.5hours

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 3:17:15 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 19.30.57 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/27/2023 9:34 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 07.56.23 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new.. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

how much amphetamine do you need to make 2000 miles with out breaks?
I\'ve done that several times (no drugs)! But, I was considerably
younger. Drive 250-300 miles (so you don\'t exhaust the tank).
Pull over for gas and piss. Get back in car and do another 250-300
miles.

Boston to Chicago is only 20 hours. Comparable to going to Miami.
40 hours to Denver. About 60 to SF. And, these are somewhat leisurely
rates.

A friend has a 160G \"expansion tank\" on his truck and does the trip
to Kansas City in ~18 hours (~1200 miles and no stops) BTW, he\'s 75.
there\'s a reason why truck drivers are required to take 45 minutes rest every 4.5hours

In the US, it\'s 30 minutes \"somewhere\" in the first 8 hours, 11 hours total within 14 hours of starting. There are a few people who just insist on driving as short a time as possible, rather than considering how well they feel at the end of the trip. I\'ve driven 500 miles in a day with no trouble, but I don\'t try to kill myself. In fact, I enjoy a stop with a proper meal, so 45 minutes. That\'s actually a bit tight, since the charging is often done in 30 minutes. I have to set the charge limit to 90% or even 100% to not be hurried. That\'s the part of charging I don\'t like, it goes a bit too fast. Tesla may charge you idle fees after the car stops charging.

One trucker I discussed this with claimed he would lead a fleet of big rigs hauling some setup for

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 3:27:56 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 3:17:15 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 19.30.57 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/27/2023 9:34 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 07.56.23 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

how much amphetamine do you need to make 2000 miles with out breaks?
I\'ve done that several times (no drugs)! But, I was considerably
younger. Drive 250-300 miles (so you don\'t exhaust the tank).
Pull over for gas and piss. Get back in car and do another 250-300
miles.

Boston to Chicago is only 20 hours. Comparable to going to Miami.
40 hours to Denver. About 60 to SF. And, these are somewhat leisurely
rates.

A friend has a 160G \"expansion tank\" on his truck and does the trip
to Kansas City in ~18 hours (~1200 miles and no stops) BTW, he\'s 75.
there\'s a reason why truck drivers are required to take 45 minutes rest every 4.5hours
In the US, it\'s 30 minutes \"somewhere\" in the first 8 hours, 11 hours total within 14 hours of starting. There are a few people who just insist on driving as short a time as possible, rather than considering how well they feel at the end of the trip. I\'ve driven 500 miles in a day with no trouble, but I don\'t try to kill myself. In fact, I enjoy a stop with a proper meal, so 45 minutes. That\'s actually a bit tight, since the charging is often done in 30 minutes. I have to set the charge limit to 90% or even 100% to not be hurried. That\'s the part of charging I don\'t like, it goes a bit too fast. Tesla may charge you idle fees after the car stops charging.

One trucker I discussed this with claimed he would lead a fleet of big rigs hauling some setup for

Whoops.

This trucker claimed they drove 16 hours with no breaks, other than one fuel stop. Very illegal, and very unlikely. The guy was probably full of BS.

The point being discussed was that Tesla claims their trucks will go 500 miles on a full charge when fully loaded. The driver is required to stop for 30 minutes in the first 8 hours, which allows 300 miles to be charged. This gives enough range so the limit is on the driver\'s hours (11 for the day). The range doesn\'t need to keep up with diesel trucks, it only needs to keep up with the driver.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Y]

On 4/27/2023 10:22 AM, Ed Lee wrote:

You also will likely need to avoid ethanol as it wreaks havoc on small engines.

How so? Not enough power? How about adding octant booster?

Kind of defeating the backup purpose, if I can\'t just buy gas on the road.

The ethanol eats some of the plastics used in the carburetors
(e.g., many have plastic floats).

It also \"attracts\" moisture; not good for fuel viability.

 

[Don Y]

On 4/27/2023 12:17 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 19.30.57 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/27/2023 9:34 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 07.56.23 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

how much amphetamine do you need to make 2000 miles with out breaks?
I\'ve done that several times (no drugs)! But, I was considerably
younger. Drive 250-300 miles (so you don\'t exhaust the tank).
Pull over for gas and piss. Get back in car and do another 250-300
miles.

Boston to Chicago is only 20 hours. Comparable to going to Miami.
40 hours to Denver. About 60 to SF. And, these are somewhat leisurely
rates.

A friend has a 160G \"expansion tank\" on his truck and does the trip
to Kansas City in ~18 hours (~1200 miles and no stops) BTW, he\'s 75.

there\'s a reason why truck drivers are required to take 45 minutes rest every 4.5hours

Truck drivers are often driving large -- sometimes hazardous -- loads.
And, are acting in a commercial capacity (much easier to regulate than
\"civilians\").

Driving 250-300 miles at 60-65 MPH is roughly 4 hours. Then, the car
\"needs\" to be refueled. And, the driver (and other occupants) likely
need to \"relieve themselves\".

Highway driving is considerably less stressful than city driving; there
aren\'t traffic signals creating \"events\" that you must handle. No cross
traffic, pedestrians, etc. ALL the traffic is moving at roughly the
same speed (there are limits on *minimum* speeds on highways). If you
are intent on getting far, fast, you will avoid driving THROUGH cities
and, instead, take \"beltways\" that circumnavigate the larger metro
areas.

Indeed, the biggest worry is nodding off due to the monotony.

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 3:48:41 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

On 4/27/2023 12:17 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 19.30.57 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/27/2023 9:34 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 27. april 2023 kl. 07.56.23 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 4/26/2023 8:24 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new.. There
are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the
way designers think they will be.
That\'s true of all technologies -- even mature ones.

Most of the folks that I know who were \"early adopters\"
moved from Teslas to other makes/models... and then back
to ICEs. It\'s just too much \"work\" to plan how you\'re
going to use the vehicle.

OTOH, I can drive 1000 miles... and, 10 minutes later, decide
I want/need to drive 1000 more! As long as my tank will
span the largest \"expanse of desolation\" (e.g., perhaps
crossing the Navajo Nation or Death Valley), I\'m all set.

how much amphetamine do you need to make 2000 miles with out breaks?
I\'ve done that several times (no drugs)! But, I was considerably
younger. Drive 250-300 miles (so you don\'t exhaust the tank).
Pull over for gas and piss. Get back in car and do another 250-300
miles.

Boston to Chicago is only 20 hours. Comparable to going to Miami.
40 hours to Denver. About 60 to SF. And, these are somewhat leisurely
rates.

A friend has a 160G \"expansion tank\" on his truck and does the trip
to Kansas City in ~18 hours (~1200 miles and no stops) BTW, he\'s 75.

there\'s a reason why truck drivers are required to take 45 minutes rest every 4.5hours
Truck drivers are often driving large -- sometimes hazardous -- loads.
And, are acting in a commercial capacity (much easier to regulate than
\"civilians\").

Driving 250-300 miles at 60-65 MPH is roughly 4 hours. Then, the car
\"needs\" to be refueled. And, the driver (and other occupants) likely
need to \"relieve themselves\".

Highway driving is considerably less stressful than city driving;

LOL! I\'d love to drive on your highways. The main reason I hate driving is the other drivers who slow up for no reason, speed up and ride my bumper for no reason and generally are a PITA to deal with. City driving is simple in comparison. You know the traffic is going to move as soon as the light changes. There\'s little anyone can do to get ahead as every lane moves at pretty much the same speed. Just don\'t hit the guy in front of you and it\'s mostly easy.

there
aren\'t traffic signals creating \"events\" that you must handle. No cross
traffic, pedestrians, etc. ALL the traffic is moving at roughly the
same speed (there are limits on *minimum* speeds on highways). If you
are intent on getting far, fast, you will avoid driving THROUGH cities
and, instead, take \"beltways\" that circumnavigate the larger metro
areas.

Duh!


> Indeed, the biggest worry is nodding off due to the monotony.

Hardly. My biggest worry are the trucks that speed down hill, slow going up hill and make it hard to get past them. I\'ve had headlights in my rear view mirror that are so close, I can\'t see the license plate. No, city driving is trivial in comparison.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 12:40:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

On 4/27/2023 10:22 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
You also will likely need to avoid ethanol as it wreaks havoc on small engines.

How so? Not enough power? How about adding octant booster?

Kind of defeating the backup purpose, if I can\'t just buy gas on the road.
The ethanol eats some of the plastics used in the carburetors
(e.g., many have plastic floats).

It also \"attracts\" moisture; not good for fuel viability.

OK, i\'ll get some pure-gas 222 miles away from here. I only need it to get out of LA.

 

[Don Y]

On 4/27/2023 1:58 PM, Ed Lee wrote:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 12:40:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 10:22 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
You also will likely need to avoid ethanol as it wreaks havoc on small engines.

How so? Not enough power? How about adding octant booster?

Kind of defeating the backup purpose, if I can\'t just buy gas on the road.
The ethanol eats some of the plastics used in the carburetors
(e.g., many have plastic floats).

It also \"attracts\" moisture; not good for fuel viability.

OK, i\'ll get some pure-gas 222 miles away from here. I only need it to get out of LA.

Or, you\'ll find a suitable additive or you\'ll live with the consequences.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 05:32:38 UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
....

I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations..
....

Tesla does exactly that (It takes into account weather and traffic as well as vehicle and road characteristics) . It shows a trip projection with the battery percentage at every point along the way. It shows the actual battery percentage in real-time on the same chart as you drive.

In tabular form it indicates how much energy was consumed by the various services such as propulsion, climate control. auxiliaries etc with a comparison to the estimation.

It does this just by entering a destination into the navigation system.

If charging will be required it finds charging stations and recommends the charging time.

kw

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
....

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week
driving it across the country (instead of 2-3 days).
....

She could have done it in less than 2 days.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38095522/ev-cannonball-record-tesla-model-s/

kw

 

[Don Y]

On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
...

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week
driving it across the country (instead of 2-3 days).
...

She could have done it in less than 2 days.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38095522/ev-cannonball-record-tesla-model-s/

*Any* ICE can do it in less than two days.

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 10:00:49 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 05:32:38 UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
...
I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations.
...

Tesla does exactly that (It takes into account weather and traffic as well as vehicle and road characteristics) . It shows a trip projection with the battery percentage at every point along the way. It shows the actual battery percentage in real-time on the same chart as you drive.

In tabular form it indicates how much energy was consumed by the various services such as propulsion, climate control. auxiliaries etc with a comparison to the estimation.

It does? Where does it show this info? I\'ve never seen that. It has an \"Energy\" display, where it shows projected charge levels over the course of the trip, along with the actual battery charge level. But, I\'ve never seen anything about where the energy is going.

It does this just by entering a destination into the navigation system.

If charging will be required it finds charging stations and recommends the charging time.

Yes, it does that, for sure. That\'s the primary function of the energy accounting software, to project the need and locations for charging. It is a bit stupid about \"what-if\" analysis. That\'s why I will use ABRP when planning a trip where I need to optimize my time. It is still true that while there are adequate chargers along the vast majority of routes, there are some that don\'t have a plethora of choices. No point in having 300 miles of range if the next chargers are 150 miles or 300 miles away. No one with a brain will take the chance of making it to the 300 mile charger. This is actually the greatest impact on the useful range of the car, and it is seldom mentioned. People love to talk much more about the cold, or the heat, or the many other factors that impact the battery by 10% or 20%. I\'ve been on routes where the choices are 120 miles, or 240 miles and I\'m just not willing to chance the 240 mile charger.

Meanwhile, I talked to a guy who commuted some considerable distance to and from work. While his car was still new, he would have a projection of arriving home with 1% on the battery, and be happy with not stopping to charge!

--

Rick C.

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
...

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week
driving it across the country (instead of 2-3 days).
...

She could have done it in less than 2 days.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38095522/ev-cannonball-record-tesla-model-s/
*Any* ICE can do it in less than two days.

Not when they don\'t sell gasoline anymore. I never realized you were like this, can\'t see the forest for the trees.

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ed Lee]

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
...

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week
driving it across the country (instead of 2-3 days).
...

She could have done it in less than 2 days.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38095522/ev-cannonball-record-tesla-model-s/
*Any* ICE can do it in less than two days.
Not when they don\'t sell gasoline anymore. I never realized you were like this, can\'t see the forest for the trees.

That will be the day, fat chance. EVers will need gasoline for emergency. Perhaps we can buy gasoline from McDonald.

By the way, celebrating the pathetic charging network, approaching one year of the rest stop shutdown between Tulare and Delano, I am making a 20 miles detour through Porterville to get some electricity.

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:59:44 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/27/2023 7:07 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 08:15:43 UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
...

A neighbor sold her EV as she wasn\'t prepared to spend a week
driving it across the country (instead of 2-3 days).
...

She could have done it in less than 2 days.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38095522/ev-cannonball-record-tesla-model-s/
*Any* ICE can do it in less than two days.
Not when they don\'t sell gasoline anymore. I never realized you were like this, can\'t see the forest for the trees.
That will be the day, fat chance. EVers will need gasoline for emergency. Perhaps we can buy gasoline from McDonald.

By the way, celebrating the pathetic charging network, approaching one year of the rest stop shutdown between Tulare and Delano, I am making a 20 miles detour through Porterville to get some electricity.

Emergency? What good is gasoline for an EV? Oh, you still want to be your own utility and make electricity. Ok, they will run a refinery and pipeline, just for you.

The problem is as the market diminishes, the economy of scale goes away. Gasoline will still be sold, but not from gas stations as fuel for vehicles. When the demand is down to 1% of what it is today, gasoline with be sold in 1 gallon cans at the hardware store like paint thinner. Or maybe not. There really are not many uses for gasoline. It is a rather impure product, if you aren\'t burning it. Even in lanterns, they used \"white\" gas, which was a more refined product, to prevent spoiling of the wick.

When there is no longer a sustained market for a product, it goes away. You will need to use diesel for your generator, and that will be harder to come by as well.

I realize that anyone who buys a golf cart and tries to use it for long trips, is not going to understand much of what I explain, but that doesn\'t change the facts of ever decreasing demand for gasoline, and the evaporation of the support network for gas powered vehicles. By 2040, it will become prohibitively expensive and inconvenient to try to use any gasoline powered vehicles, including BEVs that are charged from personal generators.

I\'m surprised that we aren\'t starting to see an impact on gas prices by now.. I think BEV ownership is around 5% in the US. The distance driven dropped around 10% during the recession in 2008 and gas prices dropped hugely. Give it another couple of years and BEV ownership will reach 10%, which will make an impact on the price of gas. But by the time BEVs are 50% of the cars on the roads, parts of the distribution network will shut down and prices will start to go up again. I expect by 2040, gas will be working up to $10 a gallon. By 2045, there won\'t be gas stations anymore. People just can\'t grasp the idea. It\'s like saying TVs will go away, because we\'ve always known them. But gas cars are dinosaurs, and the asteroid has hit. It will only take a bit of time for them to become extinct.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-27 14:32, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The first link is to a story about a tow truck driver towing his first EV.
This EV driver would\'ve been ok if he had a hybrid.
https://ijr.com/californian-learns-brutal-lesson-evs-stranded-truck-hauled/
Here\'s a Consumer Reports article about hybrids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/how-do-hybrid-cars-work-a1034181509/
I wouldn\'t want an EV just because they\'re something relatively new. There are bugs to be worked out over time. People won\'t necessarily use them the way designers think they will be.
That was the driver\'s stupidity and not the EV. Of course the right wingnut press loves to jump on a story about a renewable failure. Was the driver so stupid he thought a mile on the flat is the same as mile with a 7% incline? Sounds like it. Google maps could compute the kWh for his exact route with pretty good accuracy if they had that capability. I haven\'t heard anything about it- yet.
Google pretty much sucks when it comes to planning a BEV trip. Very inadequate. Tesla, on the other hand, uses the Google map data and does a very good job of it. If you simply want to find chargers, Plugshare is pretty good. ABRP (a better route planner) does a better job than Tesla, in some ways. Tesla only (relatively) recently added waypoints, but still sucks for \"what if\" analysis. ABRP is probably still the best tool over all, but being built into the car is an advantage which is hard to beat.

If Tesla would fix their GD browser, so it doesn\'t crash every five minutes, crashing the display computer with it, you could run ABRP in the car and have the best of both worlds.

I\'m talking about using the exact model of EV to incrementally compute and integrate the kWh expenditure at posted speed along the prospective route from origin to destination, with possible stop offs at recharging stations. These other products, especially Tesla, are complete amateurs compared to what google could do. Maybe they don\'t want to contribute to people squandering energy on joy rides, or something.

That information would also be useful for gasoline cars. My country is
hilly, I would like to know the height profile of the proposed paths.

That reminds me, that the TomTom never tells me to take a tunnel or high
pass. Says keep left or right instead (\"take the tunnel\" would be way
more useful). It has no information of the height I am at.

There is a parking lot near me, where it proposes a path right through
the wall of the basement, because it thinks I am at ground level.

--
Cheers, Carlos.