PRC as a amplifier in GPS question.

[Chris Jones]

Ken Taylor wrote:

"Mark Harriss" <billy@blartco.co.uk> wrote in message

news:43c05380$0$493$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au
Ken Taylor wrote:


I don't really have a beef with the idea of not using power when it
isn't required, but if these facilities aren't required, then they
shouldn't be put in. In fact, since the energy-conscious people feel
so strongly, they should invest in producing and selling appliances
which don't have the clocks and so forth, and which power down after
some interval or incident so that they have to be powered up again.
Let's see if these appliances sell better than the current crop.



I thought those cheap two knob microwaves: timer and power setting were
only turned on when the timer knob was set. These would use no
quiescient current you'd think.

Then they are the ones to get if you're worried about idle power usage. If
they're cheap enough then maybe they'll make an impact.

Cheers.

Ken

Only the problem is that the ones with just the mechanical timer tend to be
the ultra-low-end ones where the door barely fits when new and after a few
months they leak microwaves quite impressively (though they are probably
still legal).

BTW, I understand that people want TVs with remote-control to power them on
and off, I agree that most people would be too lazy to get off their arse
to turn on the TV. What I do propose is that if someone came up with a
very very cheap way of getting say 0.2W at 5Volts efficiently from 240Vac,
then the TV set would not need to draw 10Watts just to run a little remote
control receiver that probably only draws a couple of mA at 5V.

Chris

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
news:VBXvf.13336$vH5.691249@news.xtra.co.nz...

"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11rvn2hq4kn3a93@corp.supernews.com...
Ken Taylor wrote:

Ed - wrote:
I know that here in WA supply capacity is a "potential" problem during
hot weather, but standby power consumption is not an issue for peak
demand calculations but rather part of a push for overall energy
efficiency in the home.

see it as that home x millions x year after year after year.

clocks in various appliances are often on different times or flashing
00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to see
the time, what is the point of its existence?

Granted, but that's not the entirety of the issue. The amount of extra
energy by having a clock function on the appliance is insignificant
given that it won't be switched off at the wall anyway. People just
*aren't* going to reach around and turn the things off at the wall. Do
you??

What's the % of power to be saved here, compared to efficiencies to be
gained by using energy efficient appliances and homes/buildings,
greater
use of solar heating, and back-feeding to the grid? What about
commercial lighting left on inappropriately? The bureaucratic easy-fix
is a crock.

Cheers.

Ken

In the life of many microwave ovens more than 50% of the energy would be
used in running the clock, and less than 50% in running the microwave
part.
Get yourself a good energy meter and try it in your house. Obviously if
you use the microwave to cook 50 dinners every day then this will not be
the case for you but it is often true. Still TVs are probably far more
wasteful than microwave ovens.

The real problem is getting the appliance manufacturer to install a 240V
rated switch before the power supply where they would prefer to install a
low voltage switch after the power supply. Most portable radios have
this
problem even though they don't have a display to power.

Insulating houses better and using solar hot water are more important
uses
of effort, but when a TV + set top box can use 50 Watts all the time, and
if there is another 150 Watts of phantom loads around the house, the
energy
use adds up to quite a lot over the years. It only goes unnoticed
because
electric power is so cheap.

Chris

Quick calculation here - an 800W microwave on for, say, 30 min's a day.
That's 1/50th of the day - is the clock going to consume 16W? Maybe, but I
doubt it (OP referenced an article which I admittedly bagged which
suggested
4.5W for the clocks, so there's a comparism). And it doesn't matter if the
unused clock is in a TV, a VCR or a microwave - if it's unused, it's
wasteful. Interesting point though - how much power does a 'normal' TV use
in standby? Must find a spec.....

Here's one I chose at random:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hid_tv_BRAVIA&ProductSKU=KDLV32XBR1&TabName=specs&var2=

I'll quote:

Standby power consumption = 0.15W

Now, let's get with the programme and switch to Solar power for hot water
and forget this silliness about standby power consumption figures. I can't
find the reference, but I recall that the US EPA legislated that all devices
which use standby power must reduce the level to below 1 Watt, by such and
such a date. It would seem that Sony (at least) have managed this trivial
piece of engineering.

Now, let's discuss something meaningful: Does anyone have experience with a
good, stainless steel Solar hot water system? THAT is the way I am going to
reduce my power consumption. I've just chucked out my 125 Watt flood lights
in my XLTastic heater/light/fan systems. I installed these new Philips, warm
white 23 Watt compact flurous. Very impressive. Brighter than the floods and
only 7 Bucks! Stick your worries about standby power figures up yer bum.
It's a complete furphy.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"matt2-amstereo" <amstereoAToptusnetDOTcomDOTa@u> wrote in message
news:43c1003c$0$18201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

I live in a house built about 20years ago, Yesterday i decided that the BC
light fitting had to be changed in the kitchen The existing light output is
dismal even with a daylight CF.

So i changed it for a 4' fluro. the wiring in this house uses a standalone
earth cable (2core red/black for power and single lead beside it for
ground) so i unscrewed the BC holder, screwed the 4' up and wired it up
with red (which had 2 leads) to brown, black to blue and standalone black
to ground, all was good, re-set the breaker and the light came on even tho
the switch was OFF. thought this was strange, so pulled the tube out to
shut light off over night, come this morning, i sought out to investigate
what was going on.. I removed the switch from the wall, this is where i
discovered, THEY USED BLACK AS THE ACTIVE SWITCHED.... this is a single
switch fitting.

what i had was active switched to the shell of the fitting, neutral to its
spot and the red pair on active.

Im surprised that the shell didnt arc out or do anything nasty, and that
the house used BLACK as an active,... good thing we have fast acting
breakers, thats all i can say.....

Is it normal for black to be used with active power?

**You're an idiot and you live in QLD, right?

There's a reason why those people who don't know what they're doing use
properly qualified people. Then there's the dead ones. They're the idiots.
Sadly, in QLD, the standards for electricians is (or was) so low, that many
problems occurred.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Tom]

matt2-amstereo wrote:

I live in a house built about 20years ago, Yesterday i decided that the
BC light fitting had to be changed in the kitchen The existing light
output is dismal even with a daylight CF.

So i changed it for a 4' fluro. the wiring in this house uses a
standalone earth cable (2core red/black for power and single lead beside
it for ground) so i unscrewed the BC holder, screwed the 4' up and wired
it up with red (which had 2 leads) to brown, black to blue and
standalone black to ground, all was good, re-set the breaker and the
light came on even tho the switch was OFF. thought this was strange, so
pulled the tube out to shut light off over night, come this morning, i
sought out to investigate what was going on.. I removed the switch from
the wall, this is where i discovered, THEY USED BLACK AS THE ACTIVE
SWITCHED.... this is a single switch fitting.

what i had was active switched to the shell of the fitting, neutral to
its spot and the red pair on active.

Im surprised that the shell didnt arc out or do anything nasty, and that
the house used BLACK as an active,... good thing we have fast acting
breakers, thats all i can say.....

Is it normal for black to be used with active power?

For a few dollars you can buy a neon screwdriver/tester and work out the
wires... if you going to rely on colours and reliable electricians
you'll die one day.

Tom

 

[Ken Taylor]

matt2-amstereo wrote:

matt2-amstereo wrote:

no, just this switch, its back to back with another light switch on
the other side that switches active through a red feeder to the
fitting. i had a look at it, cause i assumed the switch had gone
dodgy, as if the contacts had stuck closed, but imediatly i saw that
the only thing dodgy was the use of a black feeder to this one light
fixture.

the usual convention is to have the active/neut cable feed to the lamp
with the switch in line with the active. the oposite switch is done
right, this one calls for the unswitched active to join on a spare (un
used)screw connection in the lamp fixture which is available in BC
lamp fittings but unavailable in fluro housing, which only have
provision on the terminal block for active neutral and earth, therefor
this extra unswitched feed needs to enter the fluro fitting (being in
the same jacket that the neutral lives in) and be capped off so that
a)it doesnt touch anything and b) so feed can continue to the
remainder of lamps/switches on this circuit, Is this normal?

turns out this type of wiring setup (using the black leading from switch
to lamp is common in the UK and the circuit is deemed a 'ring' , ive
seem flats and houses at the pre-skin stage and looking at that wiring,
they seem to use the more power-switch-lamp method instead of the
power-lamp-switch-lamp this place seems set up with...

must be an old technique from our british roots or somthing

A proper sparky would have been wise to that. It was quite okay until
pretty recently to use any (repeat - any) of the cores for active. More
recently the active had to be sleeved if it wasn't the red or brown,
then more recently again the earth couldn't be used at all for power.
Here in NZ anyway, and I'm betting it's just a few years/decades behind Aus.

Ken

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Tom" <tom@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:zsgwf.687$Xc7.19509@nasal.pacific.net.au...

matt2-amstereo wrote:
I live in a house built about 20years ago, Yesterday i decided that the
BC light fitting had to be changed in the kitchen The existing light
output is dismal even with a daylight CF.

So i changed it for a 4' fluro. the wiring in this house uses a
standalone earth cable (2core red/black for power and single lead beside
it for ground) so i unscrewed the BC holder, screwed the 4' up and wired
it up with red (which had 2 leads) to brown, black to blue and standalone
black to ground, all was good, re-set the breaker and the light came on
even tho the switch was OFF. thought this was strange, so pulled the tube
out to shut light off over night, come this morning, i sought out to
investigate what was going on.. I removed the switch from the wall, this
is where i discovered, THEY USED BLACK AS THE ACTIVE SWITCHED.... this is
a single switch fitting.

what i had was active switched to the shell of the fitting, neutral to
its spot and the red pair on active.

Im surprised that the shell didnt arc out or do anything nasty, and that
the house used BLACK as an active,... good thing we have fast acting
breakers, thats all i can say.....

Is it normal for black to be used with active power?

For a few dollars you can buy a neon screwdriver/tester and work out the
wires... if you going to rely on colours and reliable electricians you'll
die one day.

**Don't sweat it. Just evolution in action. Morons doing their own
electrical work need to be weeded out of our gene pool.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Poxy]

Terry Collins wrote:

Poxy wrote:

I thought the convention was that power is run to the fitting, the
neutral and earth connected and the active run to the switch and
back. If the power is at the switch perhaps it wasn't a professional
installation?

That is what I mostly find, but 50% also use twin core with red as
active to the switch and black as the switched active back to the
light fitting. Shudder.

That's actually what I meant - the run to the switch and back is twin-core,
often red and white - isn't this how it's meant to be done? Is there some
convention as to which wire is meant to carry the active to the switch?

 

[David L. Jones]

The Doctor wrote:

Hi all,

I have heard it before that even the digital clock on DVD players
or microwave ovens can add up to a fair bit of power. How much power
do they typically draw? Are there any plans by major manufacturers to
reduce that?

Yes, it can add up.
Latent power consumption for typical applinces can range from say one
watt to tens of watts depending on what it is and how well it is
designed. A lot of the time people will simply leave stuff on instead
of turning it off. DVD players and Set Top Boxes for instance simply
get left on and the TV switched to standby mode.

There are several manufacturers who advertise their stuff as having
"low standby power", so I guess they are at least thinking about it. My
Samsung VCR was advertisd like that as a big feature, although I'm not
sure of it's actual latent power consumption.

The average home can easily have a few dozen standby power appliances,
so it does all add up. Some of it's needed and some of it's not.
I've got my entire entertainment system powered through one
conveniently located power point, so I switch it all off at the wall
when not being used. It's actually very convenient because everything
powers back up to exactly where it left off before. Using the remotes
(all 4 of them) just to switch everything into standby mode would take
longer and be more hassle!

Check out the Steve Ciarcia article on the issue for how much his home
takes - ouch! :
http://www.circuitcellar.com/library/priorityinterrupt/172.htm

Dave

 

[Greig Corlett]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:43beb83a$1@news.comindico.com.au...

"The Doctor" <doctor@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9743E0DE1BF11docwhoATbigpondDOTne@61.9.191.5...
Hi all,

I have heard it before that even the digital clock on DVD players
or microwave ovens can add up to a fair bit of power.

**Yep. I've heard the same bullshit.

How much power
do they typically draw?

**About the same amount in one year as a two bar heater will use in a few
hours. Or as much in one week as a few halogen downlights will use in one
hour.

Are there any plans by major manufacturers to
reduce that?

**Yep. There are no plans to get consumers to switch to Solar hot water,
however, which would REALLY reduce power consumption. Of to get people to
wear an extra sweater during the Winter, instead of running that central
heating. Or to choose more efficient appliances (better air conditioners,
'fridges, etc) instead of buggering around with inconsequential things.

Education and common sense will reduce electricity consumption for more
efficiently that turning off a DVD player.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Coming from an industrial background in New Zealand I see this problem all

the time.

I often wonder how people measure this power used by devices in standby.
Most of the portable meters that are available are not sensitive enough to
measure down to under 1W nor are they capable of measuring out of phase or
true power.

Let me introduce you people to a little problem known as bad power factor.

In Industry We actually can turn on water heating and capacitors to reduce
the total load on the system.

An even bigger factor to be considered is the bad power factor of our power
systems caused by switchmode power supplies used in modern electronics and
heavy industrial motors. A bad power factor is where an appliance draws AC
current that is not in sync with the voltage. This causes high apparent
currents which if we relate back to your TV, the cheaper meters are not
true RMS this means that if the meter was to read the power drawn by the TV.
It would appear as 10w on the meter but it's true power could be only about
0.2 - 0.5w. I agree that solar power hot water would reduce total load on
our system but we need some large resistance loads to reduce our terrible
power factor.

As far as the supply authorities are concerned this power factor is a way
for them to get more money out of industry. it has only recently been
enforced that in a new industrial installation that power factor correction
units be put in to reduce the load. but the real problem is that as we get
more sophisticated electronics using swiutchmode supplies and as air
conditioning units become popular in our homes the combined effect of these
loads cause our power supply to have a bad power factor.

The effects of a bad power factor is first of all the top and bottom of the
ac supply sine wave is flattened. this in effect is a dc point on the
supply. this causes motors and transformers to become less efficient as
much as 60% of their maximum capacity. the main effects are excessive
heating in their windings.

If I take for example an industrial welder on it's own it draws a maximum
current of 50A but if we put a capacitor across it's supply for power factor
correction we can reduce it's current to 30A. so as you can see by putting
this correction in place we can save 40% energy in this case.

So why don't companies put in this feature it's because it is not a well
known effect and the average person doesn't understand, Another thing mains
rated AC capacitors are expensive. So if the consumer doesn't know it has a
negative effect on the supply why bother.

in my opinion as our supply load reduices the line capacity we need to
install power factor correction on our supply.

In a nutshell motors and appliances peak in their current draw before the
voltage is at a maximum.
power factor correction capacitors draw current after the voltage maximum.
so if we can measure the amount the voltage and current are different we can
correct it by placing capacitors in the circuit.

i could keep giong on about the effects but i will leave it at this.

 

[Greigcorlett]

"Agent " 86 " Ž" <M.Smart@control.com> wrote in message
news:64Lvf.207024$V7.47149@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

"Ed -" <spam-me@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:dpnqsd$ef7$1@news-02.connect.com.au...
I know that here in WA supply capacity is a "potential" problem during
hot weather, but standby power consumption is not an issue for peak
demand calculations but rather part of a push for overall energy
efficiency in the home.

see it as that home x millions x year after year after year.

clocks in various appliances are often on different times or flashing
00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to see
the time, what is the point of its existence?

I hope your not a 12 oclock flasher !!!!!!!!!!



"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
news:ywIvf.13192$vH5.677589@news.xtra.co.nz...
:
: "Ed -" <spam-me@nsa.gov> wrote in message
: news:dpnasc$m49$1@news-02.connect.com.au...
: > Energy saving tip #6: The Phantom Load!
______________________________
: > Want to chill out and watch a movie? It's a great idea and easy to
do,
: > considering the typical family owns two televisions, one VCR or DVD
: > player and a cable/satellite or game system box. Those appliances
have a
: > combined energy consumption of about 500 kilowatts for one year,
which
: > is more than an energy efficient refrigerator.
:
: Forgive me, but this is about 1.4kW per day; that's a whole lot of
devices
: at the stated 4.5W each. If you had 20 such devices it'd still only be
less
: than 400kWhr per year. And how much would you save? Are you paying
$0.15 per
: kWhr? What's that - $60?? Scale it by your real cost of power and see
if
: it's worthwhile.
:
: It's a total crock, put out by bureaucrats who get a pass mark for
putting
: out edicts telling people how to run their lives, rather than doing
: something useful, like increasing supply capacity where needed.
:
: Ken
:
:

one hell of a misconception

news flash

Halogen lights are worse than normal lights. people think that because they
are low voltage they are efficient. Have you seen how hot they get and how
hot the transformers get. This is all waste energy. all halogen light
fittings are made of high temp ceramic and the cables are made of high temp
insulation because they get so hot. when installing them in a ceiling there
the manufacture specifies 150mm diameter with no insulation compared with
100mm for a standard 240v recess downlight. these are things that we aren't
told when we buy these things. I wonder how many people who are over fussed
on energy saving put these lights in because they think they are efficient.

 

[The Real Andy]

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:40:30 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
<trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

"matt2-amstereo" <amstereoAToptusnetDOTcomDOTa@u> wrote in message
news:43c1003c$0$18201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
I live in a house built about 20years ago, Yesterday i decided that the BC
light fitting had to be changed in the kitchen The existing light output is
dismal even with a daylight CF.

So i changed it for a 4' fluro. the wiring in this house uses a standalone
earth cable (2core red/black for power and single lead beside it for
ground) so i unscrewed the BC holder, screwed the 4' up and wired it up
with red (which had 2 leads) to brown, black to blue and standalone black
to ground, all was good, re-set the breaker and the light came on even tho
the switch was OFF. thought this was strange, so pulled the tube out to
shut light off over night, come this morning, i sought out to investigate
what was going on.. I removed the switch from the wall, this is where i
discovered, THEY USED BLACK AS THE ACTIVE SWITCHED.... this is a single
switch fitting.

what i had was active switched to the shell of the fitting, neutral to its
spot and the red pair on active.

Im surprised that the shell didnt arc out or do anything nasty, and that
the house used BLACK as an active,... good thing we have fast acting
breakers, thats all i can say.....

Is it normal for black to be used with active power?

**You're an idiot and you live in QLD, right?

Gee, thats a bit harsh. This is actually quite common, and not just
here in QLD.

There's a reason why those people who don't know what they're doing use
properly qualified people. Then there's the dead ones. They're the idiots.
Sadly, in QLD, the standards for electricians is (or was) so low, that many
problems occurred.

My guess is that it was wired the traditional way, then a second light
fixure was wired into the switch at a later date.

 

[The Real Andy]

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 06:27:28 -0000, Jasen Betts
<jasen@free.net.nospam.nz> wrote:

On 2006-01-08, matt2-amstereo <amstereoAToptusnetDOTcomDOTa@u> wrote:
the other thing that amazes me is the fact that a 4' can work without an
earth, some were i read that balasted fittings needed an earth to
actually work in the first place.... guess they may have been wrong

nothing needs an earth to work...
it's there for your protection.
it needs an earth to meet regulations.

From memory, a light fixture needs no earth. Is a flouro batten any
different? There may be something to do with the hight of the fixture
too. I did once know all the SAA rules, but they are long gone. I
remember throwing away the book about 3 or 4 houses ago!

 

[atec]

matt2-amstereo wrote:

I live in a house built about 20years ago, Yesterday i decided that
the BC light fitting had to be changed in the kitchen The existing
light output is dismal even with a daylight CF.

So i changed it for a 4' fluro. the wiring in this house uses a
standalone earth cable (2core red/black for power and single lead
beside it for ground) so i unscrewed the BC holder, screwed the 4' up
and wired it up with red (which had 2 leads) to brown, black to blue
and standalone black to ground, all was good, re-set the breaker and
the light came on even tho the switch was OFF. thought this was
strange, so pulled the tube out to shut light off over night, come
this morning, i sought out to investigate what was going on.. I
removed the switch from the wall, this is where i discovered, THEY
USED BLACK AS THE ACTIVE SWITCHED.... this is a single switch fitting.

what i had was active switched to the shell of the fitting, neutral to
its spot and the red pair on active.

Im surprised that the shell didnt arc out or do anything nasty, and
that the house used BLACK as an active,... good thing we have fast
acting breakers, thats all i can say.....

Is it normal for black to be used with active power?

Its an old hangover from post war sparkys , many could do the work so
were considered ok yet were not in effect tradesman , many used a
common earth rail down the roof space and looped the active in a twin
across the active then switch then fitting to make the circuit and the
neutral really was added when required to make suitable , was helping
a mate recently in an old house in Brisbane and most of it was a rewire
but some was very old ( about 40 years) with everything bundled and
taped in a group star fashion in the roof all actives via the first
light switch , (a real head shaker

 

[Ken Taylor]

matt2-amstereo wrote:

thats what confused me, everything i've ever learned previously was
wrong in this case. I have learned somthing tho, check the light switch
first

No, in VB terms you learnt:

If Could_Job_Kill_Me = TRUE then
Check_Carefully = TRUE
If Existing_Wiring_Looks_Oddball = TRUE then
MsgBox "WFT!"
ApproachCarefully ()
End If
Else
Approach_Carefully_Anyway ()
End If



Cheers.

Ken

 

[Ken Taylor]

Greigcorlett wrote:

"Agent " 86 " Ž" <M.Smart@control.com> wrote in message
news:64Lvf.207024$V7.47149@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

"Ed -" <spam-me@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:dpnqsd$ef7$1@news-02.connect.com.au...

I know that here in WA supply capacity is a "potential" problem during
hot weather, but standby power consumption is not an issue for peak
demand calculations but rather part of a push for overall energy
efficiency in the home.

see it as that home x millions x year after year after year.

clocks in various appliances are often on different times or flashing
00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to see
the time, what is the point of its existence?

I hope your not a 12 oclock flasher !!!!!!!!!!



"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
news:ywIvf.13192$vH5.677589@news.xtra.co.nz...
:
: "Ed -" <spam-me@nsa.gov> wrote in message
: news:dpnasc$m49$1@news-02.connect.com.au...
: > Energy saving tip #6: The Phantom Load!
______________________________
: > Want to chill out and watch a movie? It's a great idea and easy to
do,
: > considering the typical family owns two televisions, one VCR or DVD
: > player and a cable/satellite or game system box. Those appliances
have a
: > combined energy consumption of about 500 kilowatts for one year,
which
: > is more than an energy efficient refrigerator.
:
: Forgive me, but this is about 1.4kW per day; that's a whole lot of
devices
: at the stated 4.5W each. If you had 20 such devices it'd still only be
less
: than 400kWhr per year. And how much would you save? Are you paying
$0.15 per
: kWhr? What's that - $60?? Scale it by your real cost of power and see
if
: it's worthwhile.
:
: It's a total crock, put out by bureaucrats who get a pass mark for
putting
: out edicts telling people how to run their lives, rather than doing
: something useful, like increasing supply capacity where needed.
:
: Ken
:
:




one hell of a misconception

news flash

Halogen lights are worse than normal lights. people think that because they
are low voltage they are efficient. Have you seen how hot they get and how
hot the transformers get. This is all waste energy. all halogen light
fittings are made of high temp ceramic and the cables are made of high temp
insulation because they get so hot. when installing them in a ceiling there
the manufacture specifies 150mm diameter with no insulation compared with
100mm for a standard 240v recess downlight. these are things that we aren't
told when we buy these things. I wonder how many people who are over fussed
on energy saving put these lights in because they think they are efficient.


Who had the misconception in what you replied to?

Cheers.

Ken

 

[Agent \" 86 \" Ž]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:43c31808@news.comindico.com.au...

"Greigcorlett" <greigcorlett@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:wXqwf.13628$vH5.708893@news.xtra.co.nz...

"Agent " 86 " Ž" <M.Smart@control.com> wrote in message
news:64Lvf.207024$V7.47149@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

"Ed -" <spam-me@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:dpnqsd$ef7$1@news-02.connect.com.au...
I know that here in WA supply capacity is a "potential" problem during
hot weather, but standby power consumption is not an issue for peak
demand calculations but rather part of a push for overall energy
efficiency in the home.

see it as that home x millions x year after year after year.

clocks in various appliances are often on different times or flashing
00:00 and are a TOTAL waste of energy, and if you are not there to see
the time, what is the point of its existence?

I hope your not a 12 oclock flasher !!!!!!!!!!



"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
news:ywIvf.13192$vH5.677589@news.xtra.co.nz...
:
: "Ed -" <spam-me@nsa.gov> wrote in message
: news:dpnasc$m49$1@news-02.connect.com.au...
: > Energy saving tip #6: The Phantom Load!
______________________________
: > Want to chill out and watch a movie? It's a great idea and easy to
do,
: > considering the typical family owns two televisions, one VCR or
DVD
: > player and a cable/satellite or game system box. Those appliances
have a
: > combined energy consumption of about 500 kilowatts for one year,
which
: > is more than an energy efficient refrigerator.
:
: Forgive me, but this is about 1.4kW per day; that's a whole lot of
devices
: at the stated 4.5W each. If you had 20 such devices it'd still only
be
less
: than 400kWhr per year. And how much would you save? Are you paying
$0.15 per
: kWhr? What's that - $60?? Scale it by your real cost of power and
see
if
: it's worthwhile.
:
: It's a total crock, put out by bureaucrats who get a pass mark for
putting
: out edicts telling people how to run their lives, rather than doing
: something useful, like increasing supply capacity where needed.
:
: Ken
:
:




one hell of a misconception

news flash

Halogen lights are worse than normal lights. people think that because
they are low voltage they are efficient.

**They ARE more efficient than regular incanescent. Not by a huge amount
though.

Have you seen how hot they get and how
hot the transformers get.

**Two words: 'Electronic transformers'. Additionally, a transformer SHOULD
incur a penalty of around 10-20% at most. That still puts halogens higher
than incandescent in the efficiency stakes. Running lots of halogens from
a
single transformer will increase efficiency still further.

Transformers AC that is are far more efficient than your stating , normally
95-98 percent

This is all waste energy. all halogen light
fittings are made of high temp ceramic and the cables are made of high
temp insulation because they get so hot. when installing them in a
ceiling there the manufacture specifies 150mm diameter with no
insulation
compared with 100mm for a standard 240v recess downlight. these are
things that we aren't told when we buy these things. I wonder how many
people who are over fussed on energy saving put these lights in because
they think they are efficient.

**They buy them because they look trendy. People don't care about
efficiency. If they did, then they'd be using Solar heating for their hot
water.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Mark Harriss]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Depends on the transformer. Go talk to a transformer manufacturer and get
back to me. Some, cheap, crappy halogen transformers are probably no better
than 70% efficient (my seat-of-the-pants guesstimate).

Worst case 77%, best case 93% with most around 86% efficiency. 500GW Hrs
are estimated to be wasted per year in Australia.

 

[Mark Harriss]

glchun wrote:

I have undergone a problem of suprem-IV!
When I designed the structure use the line command as the description
it tells me that the region 1 is not a increasing spacing.


Who can tell me the formula of the line command!
Pls mail to me.
email/msn:glc...@china.com.cn


Thanks in advance!

Yes, I have used suprem-IV....so soft and silky against
my skin, it lasts for hours and hours

 

[matt2-amstereo]

Ken Taylor wrote:

matt2-amstereo wrote:
its all good, i worked out what the problem was, just didn't expect
that they'd use black to carry active....

as far as using or not using earth, certain types of fluro fittings
wouldn't correctly fire each time, but i dont believe that has
anything to do with pre-heat type ballasted fittings.

this is an ex RAFF house, maybe theres the explaination?
Yeah, don't trust the riff-raff. Trust RAAF though.

Cheers.

Ken
or RAFF royal air force fluckers? nah they're ok, just there sparky work

that needs improvment

 

G'day

You can use any colour you like for active as long as its not Black,
Green, Yellow or Yellow/Green - Preferred is Red however. Three phase
is usually Red, White, Blue, but doesn't have to be. Thats what the
Current version of AS 3000 says.

Within switchboards you can use more or less any colour for anything
you like so long as its labelled, except earth is green/yellow.

Im told by some old sparkies that twin red and black TPS was often used
for switching with black as the switched active - apparently was
allowed once upon a time and was a convention but not any more.

And yes an earth must be carried and connected at each light fitting,
regardless of what its made of. Good idea to test this however as even
in new installations they seem to neglect to actually connect it which
means its not connected back to the switchboard.

In large cable sizes often all the wires are black and only identified
at the ends either with numbers or heat shrink colours.

Mains wiring is pretty simple in houses, but theres no room for
mistakes - test everything and trust no one. Don't guess on anything,
if you dont know ask someone who knows. Just because the rules say its
meant to be done in such a way, doesn't mean it was actually done that
way. Just think they could have been doing the wiring to whatever your
working on at 4:55 Friday afternoon.........

Cheers