PRC as a amplifier in GPS question.

[news13]

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 22:29:12 +1000, Noddy wrote:

On 22/04/14 9:51 PM, news13 wrote:

Yes Noddy(the welding gas and grange hermitage wood duck), I know MY
welding gases, but you have never told us why you have yours, just a
copy & paste of BOC info.

As I've explained to you before Terry, and as you've failed to grasp a
few times now, if you didn't understand what I said to you initially
then repeating it continually is *not* going to kelp you "get it".

Lol, the welding gas wood duck has been trolled and caught again.

 

[Noddy]

On 22/04/14 9:51 PM, news13 wrote:

Yes Noddy(the welding gas and grange hermitage wood duck), I know MY
welding gases, but you have never told us why you have yours, just a copy
& paste of BOC info.

As I've explained to you before Terry, and as you've failed to grasp a
few times now, if you didn't understand what I said to you initially
then repeating it continually is *not* going to kelp you "get it".

Just give up. You don't have a clue....



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

 

[Noddy]

On 23/04/14 12:55 AM, news13 wrote:

> Lol, the welding gas wood duck has been trolled and caught again.

You're a fucking mental case. I mean really, you have genuine mental
health issues.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

 

[lindsay]

On 23/04/2014 12:00 PM, Noddy wrote:

On 23/04/14 12:55 AM, news13 wrote:

Lol, the welding gas wood duck has been trolled and caught again.

You're a fucking mental case. I mean really, you have genuine mental
health issues.

now, wait for it....

 

Em domingo, 7 de março de 1999 10h00min00s UTC+2, Bruce Taylor escreveu:

Hi, Does anyone know of the availability of a service manual/info for
Tektronix 21HV4S monitor. I believe it is a Panasonic HV4S/H chassis.
Problem is that it has no brightness - picture only just visible. I need to
know grid, EHT volts etc. Appreciate any assistance. Have tried Tek in Aust
to no avail. Thanks, Bruce Taylor

Did you fix it?!

I have the same problem, and i have the service manual. Can you help me?

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 18/06/2014 3:49 PM, Yaputya wrote:

On 18/06/2014 3:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 17/06/2014 10:54 PM, Yaputya wrote:
Has anyone here used the Micromite 28DIP to connect to the standard PC
COM1/2 RS232 port?
The Micromite is described in Silicon Chip, but there are no wiring
diagrams that show you how to connect it to a PC COM1/2 type RS232 port,
as found on older PC's.

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.
So if you want to conect a Micromite chip to your PC you will have to
invert the logic levels on the Micromite console port.


The Micromite is PIC32 device.

I haven't linked a PIC32 to a PC serial port, but I have done for PIC16
and PIC24 devices, which raise the same issues.

I've used this configuration with success:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp0vkwiscuawmxc/serial.png

Sylvia.

Thanks, no doubt that circuit has worked well.
However, you don't really need to connect to the RS232 DTR pin, you can
use the host micro's Vdd pin if it is over 3V.

In practice, probably, and of course the 0V level is not strictly valid
either. Still, using DTR takes the 1 level further away from RS232's limits.

Sylvia.

 

[Yaputya]

On 18/06/2014 8:37 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 18/06/2014 3:49 PM, Yaputya wrote:
On 18/06/2014 3:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 17/06/2014 10:54 PM, Yaputya wrote:
Has anyone here used the Micromite 28DIP to connect to the standard PC
COM1/2 RS232 port?
The Micromite is described in Silicon Chip, but there are no wiring
diagrams that show you how to connect it to a PC COM1/2 type RS232
port,
as found on older PC's.

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend
using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.
So if you want to conect a Micromite chip to your PC you will have to
invert the logic levels on the Micromite console port.


The Micromite is PIC32 device.

I haven't linked a PIC32 to a PC serial port, but I have done for PIC16
and PIC24 devices, which raise the same issues.

I've used this configuration with success:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp0vkwiscuawmxc/serial.png

Sylvia.

Thanks, no doubt that circuit has worked well.
However, you don't really need to connect to the RS232 DTR pin, you can
use the host micro's Vdd pin if it is over 3V.



In practice, probably, and of course the 0V level is not strictly valid
either. Still, using DTR takes the 1 level further away from RS232's
limits.

Sylvia.

Probably the easiest way to get a 100% true-blue RS232 interface is to
use a MAX232 style chip, but it ain't strictly necessary.

I've never had a problem connecting PICAXEs to COM ports with the
standard RevEd interface, this works because the RS232 minimum is
supposedly +/- 3V, but in the real world 0V and 3V works fine.
See page 44 here: Note - they consider RS232 to be OBSOLETE!!! - I'm
sure many electronic hobbyists still use 'legacy' PCs in their
garage/cellar.
http://www.picaxe.com/docs/picaxe_manual1.pdf

A minor advantage of using the micro's Vdd is that you only need three
wires in the I/F cable (if you put the inverting transistors on the
micropocessor end).

BTW Have you tried out the Maximite/Micromite? I've got one on order.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-06-18, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 18/06/2014 12:41 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.
So if you want to conect a Micromite chip to your PC you will have to
invert the logic levels on the Micromite console port.

I've never done anything with RS232, but I think the MAX232 chip might be
what you're after.

Yeah, I've got a few MAX232's somewhere. But you can also just use
transistors to invert the signal. You can even 'pinch' a negative
voltage from the host RS232 interface's RXD pin via a diode-cap since it
sits at MARK or negative volts most of the time. Most RS232 devices work
fine with just zero volts as MARK though.

You don't actually need the negative voltage to have somethig functional,
especially on short cables.

it's needed to be within spec, but no actual rs232 receivers need to
see anything lower than +0.5V to register a "mark"






--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-06-18, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

the PIC is CMOS.

(No, you don't)
((like I said))


--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 18/06/2014 9:21 PM, Yaputya wrote:

On 18/06/2014 8:37 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/06/2014 3:49 PM, Yaputya wrote:
On 18/06/2014 3:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 17/06/2014 10:54 PM, Yaputya wrote:
Has anyone here used the Micromite 28DIP to connect to the standard PC
COM1/2 RS232 port?
The Micromite is described in Silicon Chip, but there are no wiring
diagrams that show you how to connect it to a PC COM1/2 type RS232
port,
as found on older PC's.

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend
using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.
So if you want to conect a Micromite chip to your PC you will have to
invert the logic levels on the Micromite console port.


The Micromite is PIC32 device.

I haven't linked a PIC32 to a PC serial port, but I have done for PIC16
and PIC24 devices, which raise the same issues.

I've used this configuration with success:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp0vkwiscuawmxc/serial.png

Sylvia.

Thanks, no doubt that circuit has worked well.
However, you don't really need to connect to the RS232 DTR pin, you can
use the host micro's Vdd pin if it is over 3V.



In practice, probably, and of course the 0V level is not strictly valid
either. Still, using DTR takes the 1 level further away from RS232's
limits.

Sylvia.

Probably the easiest way to get a 100% true-blue RS232 interface is to
use a MAX232 style chip, but it ain't strictly necessary.

I've never had a problem connecting PICAXEs to COM ports with the
standard RevEd interface, this works because the RS232 minimum is
supposedly +/- 3V, but in the real world 0V and 3V works fine.
See page 44 here: Note - they consider RS232 to be OBSOLETE!!! - I'm
sure many electronic hobbyists still use 'legacy' PCs in their
garage/cellar.

Even some current motherboards have a RS232 header, just not a back
panel socket.

http://www.picaxe.com/docs/picaxe_manual1.pdf

A minor advantage of using the micro's Vdd is that you only need three
wires in the I/F cable (if you put the inverting transistors on the
micropocessor end).

BTW Have you tried out the Maximite/Micromite? I've got one on order.

No - I've just used the Microchip software development tools in C and
assembler, so not had to buy pre-programmed controllers.

Sylvia.

 

[pedro]

On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 07:22:51 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

Please re-read what I said before getting your knickers in a twist.

 

[Yaputya]

On 18/06/2014 2:26 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2014-06-18, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

the PIC is CMOS.

(No, you don't)
((like I said))

You always have to invert TTL to get RS232.
A logic 'one' is a positive voltage in TTL and a negative voltage in RS232.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232

 

[Yaputya]

On 18/06/2014 2:12 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2014-06-18, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 18/06/2014 12:41 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.
So if you want to conect a Micromite chip to your PC you will have to
invert the logic levels on the Micromite console port.

I've never done anything with RS232, but I think the MAX232 chip might be
what you're after.

Yeah, I've got a few MAX232's somewhere. But you can also just use
transistors to invert the signal. You can even 'pinch' a negative
voltage from the host RS232 interface's RXD pin via a diode-cap since it
sits at MARK or negative volts most of the time. Most RS232 devices work
fine with just zero volts as MARK though.


You don't actually need the negative voltage to have somethig functional,
especially on short cables.

it's needed to be within spec, but no actual rs232 receivers need to
see anything lower than +0.5V to register a "mark"

The formal 'RS232 spec.' does say the level between -3V and +3V is
undefined.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232

In the real world this isn't the case, as the success of the simple
Picaxe RS232 interface shows. I've downloaded programs from a PC COM
port to a Picaxe powered by just 2.4V.

 

[Yaputya]

On 18/06/2014 2:33 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 18/06/2014 9:21 PM, Yaputya wrote:
On 18/06/2014 8:37 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 18/06/2014 3:49 PM, Yaputya wrote:
On 18/06/2014 3:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 17/06/2014 10:54 PM, Yaputya wrote:
Has anyone here used the Micromite 28DIP to connect to the
standard PC
COM1/2 RS232 port?
The Micromite is described in Silicon Chip, but there are no wiring
diagrams that show you how to connect it to a PC COM1/2 type RS232
port,
as found on older PC's.

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend
using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.
So if you want to conect a Micromite chip to your PC you will have to
invert the logic levels on the Micromite console port.


The Micromite is PIC32 device.

I haven't linked a PIC32 to a PC serial port, but I have done for
PIC16
and PIC24 devices, which raise the same issues.

I've used this configuration with success:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp0vkwiscuawmxc/serial.png

Sylvia.

Thanks, no doubt that circuit has worked well.
However, you don't really need to connect to the RS232 DTR pin, you can
use the host micro's Vdd pin if it is over 3V.



In practice, probably, and of course the 0V level is not strictly valid
either. Still, using DTR takes the 1 level further away from RS232's
limits.

Sylvia.

Probably the easiest way to get a 100% true-blue RS232 interface is to
use a MAX232 style chip, but it ain't strictly necessary.

I've never had a problem connecting PICAXEs to COM ports with the
standard RevEd interface, this works because the RS232 minimum is
supposedly +/- 3V, but in the real world 0V and 3V works fine.
See page 44 here: Note - they consider RS232 to be OBSOLETE!!! - I'm
sure many electronic hobbyists still use 'legacy' PCs in their
garage/cellar.

Even some current motherboards have a RS232 header, just not a back
panel socket.

http://www.picaxe.com/docs/picaxe_manual1.pdf

A minor advantage of using the micro's Vdd is that you only need three
wires in the I/F cable (if you put the inverting transistors on the
micropocessor end).

BTW Have you tried out the Maximite/Micromite? I've got one on order.


No - I've just used the Microchip software development tools in C and
assembler, so not had to buy pre-programmed controllers.

Sylvia.

Strictly speaking, the Picaxe is not an interpreter as only a small set
of routines are pre-programmed, the rest is compiled when you download.
I have hardly used assembler since the 8048/8052 Intel micros - no need
any more as the modern micros have become powerful enough to run
compiled code at a reasonable speed. Of course you will always get the
fastest operation with assembler, at the expense of programming
development time. I've got an old Intel 8052AH-BASIC chip that has an
onboard 8K ROM Basic and allows you to call machine code subroutines -
the best of both worlds.

 

[Yaputya]

On 19/06/2014 3:27 AM, pedro wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 07:22:51 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

Please re-read what I said before getting your knickers in a twist.

The VOLTAGE is inverted - a TTL positive is an RS232 negative.

 

[Yaputya]

On 19/06/2014 7:22 AM, Yaputya wrote:

On 18/06/2014 2:26 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-06-18, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend
using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

the PIC is CMOS.

(No, you don't)
((like I said))


You always have to invert TTL to get RS232.
A logic 'one' is a positive voltage in TTL and a negative voltage in RS232.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232

And just in case you don't know it, both TTL and CMOS have logic one as
positive voltage. So you need to invert it for RS232.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-06-19, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 18/06/2014 2:26 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-06-18, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

the PIC is CMOS.

point 1:
>> (No, you don't)

point 2:

((like I said))


You always have to invert TTL to get RS232.

see point 1.
that doesn't make logial sense.

A logic 'one' is a positive voltage in TTL and a negative voltage in RS232.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232

see point 2.
It says you're wrong too. (most recent edit 14 May)

If you were to say "UART" instead of "TTL" you'd be right,

TTL is mainly a voltage level standard 2V or more is high, 0.8v or
less is low, those levels are compatible with the 1487 RS232 reeiver

--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Yaputya]

On 19/06/2014 1:48 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2014-06-19, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 18/06/2014 2:26 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-06-18, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

the PIC is CMOS.


point 1:
(No, you don't)

point 2:
((like I said))


You always have to invert TTL to get RS232.

see point 1.
that doesn't make logial sense.

A logic 'one' is a positive voltage in TTL and a negative voltage in RS232.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232

see point 2.
It says you're wrong too. (most recent edit 14 May)

If you were to say "UART" instead of "TTL" you'd be right,

TTL is mainly a voltage level standard 2V or more is high, 0.8v or
less is low, those levels are compatible with the 1487 RS232 reeiver

Dear oh dear! Don't trust this person if you want a design that works!

If you connect TTL device to an RS232 device you will have a logical
inversion problem.

 

[Andy Wood]

"Yaputya" wrote in message news:c0g3huFdm2uU1@mid.individual.net...

. . .

If you connect TTL device to an RS232 device you will have a logical
inversion problem.

I'm not sure what TTL device you are proposing to connect to an RS232
device.

I thought you were going to connect a Micromite to an RS232 device, and in
that case the "inversion" problem may be trivial to solve. At least that is
according to the creator's Micromite Manual where in the "Low Cost RS-232
Interface" section it says that COM1 can be opened with a parameter to
invert the output.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 20/06/2014 2:27 PM, Andy Wood wrote:

"Yaputya" wrote in message news:c0g3huFdm2uU1@mid.individual.net...

. . .

If you connect TTL device to an RS232 device you will have a logical
inversion problem.

I'm not sure what TTL device you are proposing to connect to an RS232
device.

I thought you were going to connect a Micromite to an RS232 device, and
in that case the "inversion" problem may be trivial to solve. At least
that is according to the creator's Micromite Manual where in the "Low
Cost RS-232 Interface" section it says that COM1 can be opened with a
parameter to invert the output.

I think the OP wants to use the PC to program the Micromite, which
involves communicating with it before being in a position to tell it to
invert the output.

Sylvia.