PRC as a amplifier in GPS question.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-06-19, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear oh dear! Don't trust this person if you want a design that works!

You've got a serious head-up-arse problem there mate.

read what I wrote.


--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Andy Wood]

"Sylvia Else" wrote in message news:c0hs3lFou9tU2@mid.individual.net...

I think the OP wants to use the PC to program the Micromite, which involves
communicating with it before being in a position to tell it to invert the
output.

Sylvia.

Ah, I missed that, but perhaps you are right (assuming that PIC has some
bootstrap serial programming capability - I wouldn't know as I have not done
anything with a PIC for over a decade).

 

[Yaputya]

On 20/06/2014 7:10 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2014-06-19, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:


Dear oh dear! Don't trust this person if you want a design that works!

You've got a serious head-up-arse problem there mate.

read what I wrote.

You won't get a Micromite console port talking to a PC's COM port unless
you invert the voltage.
Fact is, TTL logic ONE is positive, RS232 logic ONE is negative.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 20/06/2014 3:23 PM, Andy Wood wrote:

"Sylvia Else" wrote in message news:c0hs3lFou9tU2@mid.individual.net...

I think the OP wants to use the PC to program the Micromite, which
involves communicating with it before being in a position to tell it
to invert the output.

Sylvia.

Ah, I missed that, but perhaps you are right (assuming that PIC has some
bootstrap serial programming capability - I wouldn't know as I have not
done anything with a PIC for over a decade).

It's not a virgin PIC. A third-party supplier pre-programs it to support
a variant of BASIC.

Sylvia.

 

[Yaputya]

On 20/06/2014 7:23 AM, Andy Wood wrote:

"Sylvia Else" wrote in message news:c0hs3lFou9tU2@mid.individual.net...

I think the OP wants to use the PC to program the Micromite, which
involves communicating with it before being in a position to tell it
to invert the output.

Sylvia.

Ah, I missed that, but perhaps you are right (assuming that PIC has some
bootstrap serial programming capability - I wouldn't know as I have not
done anything with a PIC for over a decade).

The Micromite is a pre-programmed PIC32. It has been programmed with a
Basic interpreter and communicates via a serial interface, so you need a
PC terminal emulator such as Tera Term. The Micromite uses the TTL logic
convention for it's console serial interface, so you need to use either
a USB-TTL adaptor or an RS232-TTL interface (which inverts the voltage)
to connect it to a PC.

 

[Yaputya]

On 20/06/2014 8:21 AM, Yaputya wrote:

On 20/06/2014 7:10 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-06-19, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:


Dear oh dear! Don't trust this person if you want a design that works!

You've got a serious head-up-arse problem there mate.

read what I wrote.

You won't get a Micromite console port talking to a PC's COM port unless
you invert the voltage.
Fact is, TTL logic ONE is positive, RS232 logic ONE is negative.

Read the subject............

 

[keithr]

On 20/06/2014 4:51 PM, Yaputya wrote:

On 20/06/2014 7:23 AM, Andy Wood wrote:



"Sylvia Else" wrote in message news:c0hs3lFou9tU2@mid.individual.net...

I think the OP wants to use the PC to program the Micromite, which
involves communicating with it before being in a position to tell it
to invert the output.

Sylvia.

Ah, I missed that, but perhaps you are right (assuming that PIC has some
bootstrap serial programming capability - I wouldn't know as I have not
done anything with a PIC for over a decade).

The Micromite is a pre-programmed PIC32. It has been programmed with a
Basic interpreter and communicates via a serial interface, so you need a
PC terminal emulator such as Tera Term. The Micromite uses the TTL logic
convention for it's console serial interface, so you need to use either
a USB-TTL adaptor or an RS232-TTL interface (which inverts the voltage)
to connect it to a PC.

An ideal thing for a script kiddie.

 

[Yaputya]

On 20/06/2014 11:59 AM, keithr wrote:

On 20/06/2014 4:51 PM, Yaputya wrote:
On 20/06/2014 7:23 AM, Andy Wood wrote:



"Sylvia Else" wrote in message news:c0hs3lFou9tU2@mid.individual.net...

I think the OP wants to use the PC to program the Micromite, which
involves communicating with it before being in a position to tell it
to invert the output.

Sylvia.

Ah, I missed that, but perhaps you are right (assuming that PIC has some
bootstrap serial programming capability - I wouldn't know as I have not
done anything with a PIC for over a decade).

The Micromite is a pre-programmed PIC32. It has been programmed with a
Basic interpreter and communicates via a serial interface, so you need a
PC terminal emulator such as Tera Term. The Micromite uses the TTL logic
convention for it's console serial interface, so you need to use either
a USB-TTL adaptor or an RS232-TTL interface (which inverts the voltage)
to connect it to a PC.

An ideal thing for a script kiddie.

Lay off the booze, it is showing in your nonsense
....

 

[pedro]

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 07:18:23 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On 19/06/2014 3:27 AM, pedro wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 07:22:51 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

Please re-read what I said before getting your knickers in a twist.


The VOLTAGE is inverted - a TTL positive is an RS232 negative.

A TTL positive can mean anything. The logic of what a device outputs
using TTL levels is determined by the DEVICE, not by a particular
convention.

 

[keithr]

On 20/06/2014 8:43 PM, Yaputya wrote:

On 20/06/2014 11:59 AM, keithr wrote:
On 20/06/2014 4:51 PM, Yaputya wrote:
On 20/06/2014 7:23 AM, Andy Wood wrote:



"Sylvia Else" wrote in message
news:c0hs3lFou9tU2@mid.individual.net...

I think the OP wants to use the PC to program the Micromite, which
involves communicating with it before being in a position to tell it
to invert the output.

Sylvia.

Ah, I missed that, but perhaps you are right (assuming that PIC has
some
bootstrap serial programming capability - I wouldn't know as I have not
done anything with a PIC for over a decade).

The Micromite is a pre-programmed PIC32. It has been programmed with a
Basic interpreter and communicates via a serial interface, so you need a
PC terminal emulator such as Tera Term. The Micromite uses the TTL logic
convention for it's console serial interface, so you need to use either
a USB-TTL adaptor or an RS232-TTL interface (which inverts the voltage)
to connect it to a PC.

An ideal thing for a script kiddie.

Lay off the booze, it is showing in your nonsense

Your understanding of electronics and computers is rather less than my
dog's. Stick to fanatical right wing propaganda blowjob, you are better
at that which isn't saying much.

 

[Yaputya]

On 20/06/2014 4:32 PM, pedro wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 07:18:23 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

On 19/06/2014 3:27 AM, pedro wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 07:22:51 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

Please re-read what I said before getting your knickers in a twist.


The VOLTAGE is inverted - a TTL positive is an RS232 negative.

A TTL positive can mean anything. The logic of what a device outputs
using TTL levels is determined by the DEVICE, not by a particular
convention.

You won't get a Micromite to talk to PC's COM port if don't invert the
signal.
The convention with serial comms is for a TTL logical ONE to be a
positive voltage. Read the SUBJECT.

 

[Yaputya]

On 21/06/2014 3:48 PM, keithr wrote:

On 20/06/2014 8:43 PM, Yaputya wrote:
On 20/06/2014 11:59 AM, keithr wrote:
On 20/06/2014 4:51 PM, Yaputya wrote:
On 20/06/2014 7:23 AM, Andy Wood wrote:



"Sylvia Else" wrote in message
news:c0hs3lFou9tU2@mid.individual.net...

I think the OP wants to use the PC to program the Micromite, which
involves communicating with it before being in a position to tell it
to invert the output.

Sylvia.

Ah, I missed that, but perhaps you are right (assuming that PIC has
some
bootstrap serial programming capability - I wouldn't know as I have
not
done anything with a PIC for over a decade).

The Micromite is a pre-programmed PIC32. It has been programmed with a
Basic interpreter and communicates via a serial interface, so you
need a
PC terminal emulator such as Tera Term. The Micromite uses the TTL
logic
convention for it's console serial interface, so you need to use either
a USB-TTL adaptor or an RS232-TTL interface (which inverts the voltage)
to connect it to a PC.

An ideal thing for a script kiddie.

Lay off the booze, it is showing in your nonsense

Your understanding of electronics and computers is rather less than my
dog's. Stick to fanatical right wing propaganda blowjob, you are better
at that which isn't saying much.

Settle down Keith. Sorry if I touched on a sensitive point.
I am not bjfoster, I am just pissing him off by using his yahoo sig.
And the subject is "Micromite RS232 interfacing", everything I have
posted is correct. I have a Micromite and it IS working with a COM port
via a MAX232 and Tera Term. Follow my advice and it will work.

 

[pedro]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 13:18:13 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On 20/06/2014 4:32 PM, pedro wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 07:18:23 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

On 19/06/2014 3:27 AM, pedro wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 07:22:51 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

Please re-read what I said before getting your knickers in a twist.


The VOLTAGE is inverted - a TTL positive is an RS232 negative.

A TTL positive can mean anything. The logic of what a device outputs
using TTL levels is determined by the DEVICE, not by a particular
convention.


You won't get a Micromite to talk to PC's COM port if don't invert the
signal.

I quite believe that, having not played with them.

The convention with serial comms is for a TTL logical ONE to be a
positive voltage. Read the SUBJECT.

I did.

But you went all extravagant when you claimed:

>TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232

and that ("always") is simply NOT TRUE.

 

[yaputya]

On 24/06/2014 3:25 AM, pedro wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 13:18:13 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

On 20/06/2014 4:32 PM, pedro wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 07:18:23 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

On 19/06/2014 3:27 AM, pedro wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 07:22:51 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

On 18/06/2014 5:11 AM, pedro wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:54:19 +0200, Yaputya <bjfoster@yahoo.com
wrote:

I suspect you have to invert the voltage levels, as they recommend using
a USB/TTL converter. TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232.

Not strictly true. There are a number of cases where RS232 polarity
signals with (only) TTL levels are presented. In *most* such cases,
direct connection works fine. When in doubt, check.

You ALWAYS have to invert TTL to get RS232.

Please re-read what I said before getting your knickers in a twist.


The VOLTAGE is inverted - a TTL positive is an RS232 negative.

A TTL positive can mean anything. The logic of what a device outputs
using TTL levels is determined by the DEVICE, not by a particular
convention.


You won't get a Micromite to talk to PC's COM port if don't invert the
signal.

I quite believe that, having not played with them.

The convention with serial comms is for a TTL logical ONE to be a
positive voltage. Read the SUBJECT.

I did.

But you went all extravagant when you claimed:

TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232

and that ("always") is simply NOT TRUE.

It was true when RS232 comms dominated, although we are getting into ancient history. "Always"
applied when micros operated at TTL compatible levels but RS232 was the standard I/F.
It was the convention for the TTL logic to be the opposite voltage when RS232 was THE serial I/F.
In my experience, programmers wrote serial communication routines expecting the logical ONE in their
software to be output as a TTL logical ONE, i.e positive. When you wanted an RS232 I/F you added an
inverter or a MAX232-style chip.
Put it down as a history lesson.

 

[pedro]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:55:42 +0200, yaputya
<sir.leftlegin.to.U@gmale.com> wrote:

On 24/06/2014 3:25 AM, pedro wrote:
(snip)

But you went all extravagant when you claimed:

TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232

and that ("always") is simply NOT TRUE.

It was true when RS232 comms dominated, although we are getting into ancient history.

It was the more common practice, but far from "always"

"Always" applied when micros operated at TTL compatible levels but RS232 was the standard I/F.
It was the convention for the TTL logic to be the opposite voltage when RS232 was THE serial I/F.
In my experience, programmers wrote serial communication routines expecting the logical ONE in their
software to be output as a TTL logical ONE, i.e positive. When you wanted an RS232 I/F you added an
inverter or a MAX232-style chip.

If the TTL logic were positive then obviously an inverting level shift
to/from RS232's inverted logic. No argument there.

>Put it down as a history lesson.

I've been there (creating custom interfaces to/from RS232 devices) for
probably a bit over thirty years. The issue with RS232 as a standard
was that it was cited far more often than followed.

Put it down to learning to be less dogmatic in your claims.

 

[Yaputya]

On 25/06/2014 9:34 AM, pedro wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:55:42 +0200, yaputya
sir.leftlegin.to.U@gmale.com> wrote:

On 24/06/2014 3:25 AM, pedro wrote:
(snip)

But you went all extravagant when you claimed:

TTL levels are always inverted wrt RS232

and that ("always") is simply NOT TRUE.

It was true when RS232 comms dominated, although we are getting into ancient history.

It was the more common practice, but far from "always"

"Always" applied when micros operated at TTL compatible levels but RS232 was the standard I/F.
It was the convention for the TTL logic to be the opposite voltage when RS232 was THE serial I/F.
In my experience, programmers wrote serial communication routines expecting the logical ONE in their
software to be output as a TTL logical ONE, i.e positive. When you wanted an RS232 I/F you added an
inverter or a MAX232-style chip.

If the TTL logic were positive then obviously an inverting level shift
to/from RS232's inverted logic. No argument there.

Put it down as a history lesson.

I've been there (creating custom interfaces to/from RS232 devices) for
probably a bit over thirty years. The issue with RS232 as a standard
was that it was cited far more often than followed.

Put it down to learning to be less dogmatic in your claims.

Almost always

 

[Rod Speed]

Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote

Computer Nerd Kev wrote
Don McKenzie <5V@2.5a> wrote

Just reading about the sad case of the NSW woman electrocuted with a USB
charger that did not meet Australian safety standards.

see the video and story at:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/warning-over-usb-chargers-after-woman-dies-from-apparent-electrocution-20140626-zsngd.html

"The young woman was wearing headphones and holding her laptop when she
was found dead with burns on her ears and chest, in an apparent
electrocution."

Assuming she was just charging her mobile with the "phone charger",
rather than somehow charging her laptop with it like some of the confused
news reports I saw last night suggested, how did she get electrocuted
from her headphones to her chest?

Surely it couldn't have been to the body of the laptop.

Interesting that the high voltage got all the way through her phone to
the earphones as well.

That doesn't surprise me at all.

No surprises there...

> The insulation in the low voltage device will not resist mains voltages,

Bullshit.

> and the current will just punch through such insulation as is there.

Bullshit.

 

[Rod Speed]

Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote

Don McKenzie wrote

Pray tell, how will they stop world wide users buying these death traps?

Ebay has made it much easier for people to sell these things,
so perhaps they need to take some responsibility for it.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

No doubt they'd object, but they're
not beyond the reach of legislation.

The legislators aren't that stupid, you watch.

If I'd thought it would have done any good, I've had sent
details of my analysis of the one I bought to Fair Trading.

It wouldn't be any news to them.

One can envisage an arrangement where a safety
body of a government could check that such an
analysis is correct, and if it is, forward it to Ebay.

It wouldn't be any news to them.

Ebay could perform their own check, and if they also
agree, ban the user doing the selling (thus forcing
them to start again with a zero positive feedback).

Pity about all the other sellers.

This would encourage sellers to make sure
their products won't electrocute people,

Pigs arse it would.

even if they might still destroy the
equipment plugged into them.

 

[F Murtz]

Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

In aus.electronics Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:

see:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AC-DC-Power-Supply-Adapter-USB-Wall-Charger-US-AU-EU-UK-Plug-For-Phone-MP3-MP4-/141257752355?pt=AU$

Pray tell, how will they stop world wide users buying these death traps?

For $1, I'm thinking of buying one to see what probably happened (not
by plugging it in of course). In fact, I wonder if there are any useful
components inside (that is to say, not so cheap as to be useless),
with the AUS plug built in to the model in question, they will probably
soon be worth even less than they are already.

OK, I've convinced myself, I'm going to look into cheap USB chargers
over lunch (gotta love my weekends!).

Turns out Dave Jones already did a video teardown of some
very similar ones. Half wave rectified etc. it looks like
they're as rough on electronics as they could be on humans.

Not hard to guess where some 240VAC might go for a wander
if tempted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi-b9k-0KfE

Only worthwile parts would be the transformer core (if you
removed the potting), USB connector and two prong mains plug.
The other parts would all be pretty questionable.

Got two of those, one physically blew the usb plug clean out of the
socket when I was not looking.
[img:9a98ec0c7e]http://i60.tinypic.com/14mb4m9.jpg[/img:9a98ec0c7e]

 

[Phil Allison]

"Sylvia Else"

Phil Allison wrote:

Just reading about the sad case of the NSW woman electrocuted with a USB
charger that did not meet Australian safety standards.

** The cause of death has not been determined - from the very sketchy
details, it seems possible it was due to faulty USB charger being used
with
a mobile phone. The woman's laptop may have provided the earth path.

IME, adaptors and chargers sent direct from China are not inherently
unsafe - they merely lack agency approval certification for Australia (
normally done in China anyhow) while carrying the relevant certification
for
other countries.

This makes them illegal to supply here as certification and labelling of
such items is compulsory under legislation in each state. However, agency
certification only involves checking a few sample units and does NOT
guarantee any particular item sold is without safety flaw nor will never
develop one.

They're supposed to be resist to tracking, and broken wire connections
shouldn't be capable of making the low voltage side live.

** Ones that are *genuinely* approved for sale in Europe, the USA etc meet
all those requirements - but will usually have a non Australian AC plug.

The fake Apple brand USB adaptors shown in Dave Jones video are not agency
approved for sale anywhere - so whoever imports one of them becomes
pesonally liable for any harm that occurs.

The big trap for Australians is that China has adopted our AC plug - so
every piece of crap made for the home market
in China can be used here too.



..... Phil