OT: Why is Germany so (apparently) stupid to give up nuclear

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 11:40:02 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:qmqi8r$128a$1@gioia.aioe.org:

Space and water heating are both more cost effective using gas.


No one argued that. EVER.

I was talking about saving a company money where they already have
under sink POU (POINT OF USE) HWOD units. Those are ALL electrically
fired, and yes, a properly configured unit CAN deliver hot water with
only 1200 watts.

It all depends on your definition of hot and what flow rate is acceptable.
In a previous post you claimed near boiling water was needed for sanitary
reasons. You'd get a tiny trickle at that delta. Of course no one but you thinks
they need near boiling water. A sink would have a trickle with a 60F delta
at only 1200W. Such a unit sounds like one for somebody who's stuck with
an existing 15A outlet and has no choice or where the incoming water is
already 70F and they only want 100F water.

 

<TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:edf0061b-5262-4f5f-9368-6629348acc26@googlegroups.com:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:35:19 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:2cbd4b68-19d0-4bd4- a8ed-e35f31294d30@googlegroups.com:

Still waiting for any numbers that show any savings after you
pay for all the batteries and installation, maintenance cost.

No, dipshit. What you are doing is still mumbling.

And
that's assuming you have space at a restroom facility

Restroom facility? You are obviously clueless how large
corporate
research lab campus building are built, much less plumbed.

They don't have restrooms?

Yep. That's what they have. They don't have your precious
"restroom facilities". They are fully integrated with the building,
not separate.

Your reading comprehension problem is showing again, child. Maybe
you are some 15 year old broken savant wannabe disphit. You sure do
sport reading issues a lot.

What do they have, outhouses?

Is that where your criminal fucktard father assfucked your criminal
whore mother so she could shit you?

to house a
battery bank.....

Restrooms house paper towels and toilet tissue. There was no
mention of any bettery banks. Nice try though.

Now you're lying. You proposed using batteries to heat water used
in restrooms. That requires a battery bank and it has to go
somewhere....

I never said it was going in the restroom, you abject idiot. I
would suggest that you take your savant wannabe punk ass out to a
remedial reading course and have a third party TEACH you, not your
retarded savant wannabe perception of what reading is.

If you have room for that, you have room
for a tank....

Installation and maintainence... hmmm. First thing to go on a
24/7/365 daily use gas fired tank? The thermocouple and gas line
switch. How often? Pretty friggin often.

Nonsense. And even if you have to replace a thermocouple, they
cost $15. What does a battery bank sufficient to heat water for
restrooms cost?

Bullshit. The thermos are more and the valve switch is WAY more,
and even if one has an in-house maintanence person his hours are not
cheap, and that includes the diagnostic and oh when it fails, if it
fails ON, the tank temp goes through the roof, and many different
catastrophic failures can happen at that point.

My system? Plug it in... turn it on.


ROFL. Sure, just plug it in. We're talking about commercial
restrooms, yes? A typical one has many sinks, it's not going to
be served with a plug in tankless, more likely it's going to be
served by a tankless that's direct wired on an appropriate
amperage circuit.

You really are thick, boy. No, there is not a plug. It was a
euphemism, you fucking savantwannabe retard. The only thing your
savant wannabe-ness got you is the retard part.

Here, dipshit... I'll make it plain and simple for you...

Wire it up, and go.

You are like worse than Chum Lee dumb but not even funny dumb.
And *that* is funny!

And after you just "plug it in", where does
your battery bank, of sufficient size to heat water during the
daytime go?

You must be really behind the times.

How much volume do you think such a bank should take up, Mr.
Knowitallwannbesavantwannabebutretardeddipshitwasallyougot?

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 11:03:49 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
news:330d030e-eca7-4e22-b4c3-928bc572f3d4@googlegroups.com:

Not a good bet, and not all that relevant, if you haven't got a
handy outside wall or roof to support your solar collector where
the sun can shine on it.


One building, six restrooms (two genders so 12) and two shower
rooms each, up 24/7/365.

A full roof panel would not provide enough even for the sinks
alone, much less the showers.

Remember. no tank. So 1200 Watt POU units firing off every few
seconds at up to 70 sinks, and a couple showers.

A 1200 Watt unit can't even handle a sink, forget about a shower,
unless the incoming water is already 80F.
And what logic is there to having 70 of these for 70 sinks, instead
of a larger unit that handles a number of sinks, like one unit for
one rest room with 5 sinks? Why run more electric circuits, have
more 5 things to fail, instead of one? Seems totally illogical to me.

Dat's a lotta juice.

And solar setups with such huge up and down swing as loads nearly
always requires a battery bank for a buffer.

That's more pure BS too. Solar uses the grid as it's buffer.

Wrong, always wrong.

 

<TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:87b31b56-501f-43a4-83c3-09fb406893bc@googlegroups.com:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:36:35 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:3a5bfe2e-0787-47b6- 8a24-14390074cb83@googlegroups.com:

You just need water that's at
comfortable hand washing temperature,

Your fucked in the head opinion. What makes you think that
lukewarm
water is sanitary? Much less the system it is drawn from.

What makes you think that water for hand washing has to be at
temperatures capable of sanitizing? That temp would scald your
hands, stupid. The purpose of hand washing is to wash off dirt
and bacteria, not sterilize your hands. People just want it at a
comfortable temperature and a warm temp helps a lot with getting
grease off.

You really are an abject idiot.

I never said anything about washing your hands with scalding hot
water.

I know it is hard for a 20 IQ abject idiot piece of shit like you
to grasp, but a person mixes his or her hand wash temp AT THE SINK.

I know it is hard for a 20 IQ abject idiot piece of shit like you
to grasp, but that very hot water shocks the cold water and it is
LESS of a bio hazard at that moment.

I know it is hard for a 20 IQ abject idiot piece of shit like you
to grasp, we use hot water not for comfort, or your retarded claim of
softening grease, we use it because it reduces the surface tension of
the water, which is where the term 'soft water' comes from.
UNDERMINING the dirt attached to your skin is done by the water, and
cold, hard water will NEVER get there. That is also the fucntion of
soap. It reduces surface tension so the WATER can get UNDER the dirt
and FREE it from your skin. And the HEAT of the water opens your
pores up so you get even MORE CLEAN. Because it is the WATER that
CLEANS you. HOT WATER.

I know it is hard for a 20 IQ abject idiot piece of shit like you
to grasp, but lukewarm water does NOT open your pores. Much less
emulsify your precious grease claim.

So your grasp of what is or is not sanitary, much less what is or
is not the path to get there rests firmly at nil, you zero knowledge,
sub-human piece of shit.

 

<TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:f06446d8-79ef-46e4-8de0-c0705a622aec@googlegroups.com:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:46:40 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:3a5bfe2e-0787-47b6-8a24-14390074cb83@googlegroups.com:

Or you could put in solar panels, use that to heat
the water and the electric bill doesn't go to the night rate
electric, it can go to zero.


You were already told. Solar panels cannot provide the need to
"go
to zero". You are fucking deluded, BOY.

What "go to zero" need?

It is your term, ya fuckin retard. You are obsessed thinking folks
with solar have zero bills.

Your batteries are not zero or even close
to zero.

You are mumbling again, child.

Solar could generate all the energy needed for heating
water in rest rooms.

You were already told. Neither solar heated water systems, or
solar electric fired can do the task that is required.

Solar heated (pre-heated) water would benefit, but is not feesible
to replumb an entire building. Re-wiring for DC power to existing
HWOD units *IS* feesible.

Solar electric does not even come close to being able to provide
the need. The difference is like that of a garden hose compared to a
fire hose. Wake up.

It could actually do it realtime most days
with the right size system.

You never read, boy. I said that even the entire rooftop area
would not be enough to juice it.

Solar water heating is merely lukewarm, and therefore incomplete
and requires severe re-plumbing.

And it could do it with zero net with
a much smaller system, by putting the excess to use elsewhere in
the building or putting it into the grid.

You are mumbling again.

Here is the paradigm, you fucking stupid putz:

"Every little bit counts."

Solar electric is NOT enough for an entire facility's needs and is
therefore SUPPLEMENTAL. It has always and ONLY been that way.

Solar water heating is NOT ENOUGH for a facility's needs, and would
only be supplemental in any location in which it is installed.

A battery fed DC HWOD system in the facility's restrooms, showers,
and kitchen units would be cheaper as the power feeding them was
stored at night when rates are cheaper, and is only SUPPLEMENTAL.

Each one represents their own drop in the bucket. Each one is
beneficial.

Just like telling folks that slowing from 70 MPH to 55 MPH would
save not only them, but the entire nation would collectively save
thousands of barrels of refined gasoline a day.

Your quest to denigrate me and my idea is pretty pathetic.

And you wonder why I think the best residence for you would be next
to an ant hill in the desert buried nude up to your ears after being
dipped in rotten wet dog food. Oh and let's not forget the History
channel desert cam to get the video of nature in action. They'd
probably only eat the dogfood though, you being the total piece of
shit that you are. But the flies would love that!

So the only thing the solar panels could juice at the rate they
produce at would be to add to the BATTERY PACK.

Say what? A 10KW, 20KW solar array can't supply hot water to wash
your hands for sinks in a restroom?

You are really thick, punk. Stop being thick and start being
think. Oh, that's right... you irreversibly self retarded and there
will never be any chance of that.

And the beauty of solar, as
opposed to your battery bank,

Opposed? No. Never said that, punk. It too would merely be
supplemental, which is all my idea provides. In fact, many of the
buildings in the campus I mention *are* fitted out with solar. Most
also have dish arrays on them though. We are an aerospace
engineering firm, after all.

(how big is that sucker and where
does it go), is that then the electric is FREE, not just at the
night rate and the excess is constantly
powering other things in the facility or going into the grid where
you typically get paid for it. It makes the restroom electric
bill ZERO.

Oh boy! You look worse than Donald J. Trump trying to make a set
of numbers 'look good'.

Yeah... he finished at the top of his class... NOT!!!

GTFUCYMMWTUC!

 

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in news:2a150482-6517-4c9d-
b1ab-01649ecf6bec@googlegroups.com:

Why can't a 10KW,
20KW solar electric system power electric water heaters?

Do you even know the surface area required for such a panel set?

Nice try, punk.

 

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in news:fdb5eb34-ad99-4988-
848e-4ad26db2a953@googlegroups.com:

ROFL I see, so now hot water = soft water. That's a new one for
the
books.

Ask a woman old enough to know about the bad old days of doing
laundry in the bright color days of the sixties and seventies.

Not new. Been known by man for likely hundreds if not thousands of
years. I guess that leaves you out.

Hot water is SOFTER than cold water. Period. I never said it
matched softened water, which you'll undoubtedly barf off about next.

Sorry, punk, but you got it wrong... again.

SoftER water has lower surface tension and is how cleaning works,
you fucking retard. HOT water is softER than cold water is.

Too bad your savantwannabebutgotretardinstead brain cannot handle
historical and physical fact.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 4:50:08 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:f06446d8-79ef-46e4-8de0-c0705a622aec@googlegroups.com:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:46:40 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:3a5bfe2e-0787-47b6-8a24-14390074cb83@googlegroups.com:

Or you could put in solar panels, use that to heat
the water and the electric bill doesn't go to the night rate
electric, it can go to zero.


You were already told. Solar panels cannot provide the need to
"go
to zero". You are fucking deluded, BOY.

What "go to zero" need?

It is your term, ya fuckin retard. You are obsessed thinking folks
with solar have zero bills.

Well, many do. Others have very small electric bills and others actually
have income from their solar systems. It all depends on the size of the
system, how much electric you use and the location.

Your batteries are not zero or even close
to zero.

You are mumbling again, child.

Solar could generate all the energy needed for heating
water in rest rooms.

You were already told. Neither solar heated water systems, or
solar electric fired can do the task that is required.

Of course they can, it's just that you deny it. Why can't a 10KW,
20KW solar electric system power electric water heaters? Are they
smart water heaters and they reject electric generated from solar?
Same could be done with a solar collector, heating water directly.

Solar heated (pre-heated) water would benefit, but is not feesible
to replumb an entire building. Re-wiring for DC power to existing
HWOD units *IS* feesible.

Only electricians where you live, no plumbers? You don't have to
replumb and entire building, just connect a solar collector water loop
into the hot water going to a restroom. But if you use solar electric,
you don't have to rewired the bathrooms at all, which is why I said it
makes the most sense. BTW, where do you put your big battery bank?
No issues there, right?

Solar electric does not even come close to being able to provide
the need. The difference is like that of a garden hose compared to a
fire hose. Wake up.

You claimed the sink only needs 1200W. So, a 12KW solar system could
roughly supply ten sinks. Make it an 18KW if you like, so that it can
power other things too.

It could actually do it realtime most days
with the right size system.

You never read, boy. I said that even the entire rooftop area
would not be enough to juice it.

Good grief, typical residential solar is ~6kw to ~10KW. They are limited
by roof size, presumably a commercial facility that needs 10, 20, 70
sinks has a lot more roof space.

Solar water heating is merely lukewarm, and therefore incomplete
and requires severe re-plumbing.

Wrong, always wrong. Evacuated tube solar can get water to near boiling,
with other fluids, even higher.

And it could do it with zero net with
a much smaller system, by putting the excess to use elsewhere in
the building or putting it into the grid.

You are mumbling again.

No, that's just what you say when you're wrong.

Here is the paradigm, you fucking stupid putz:

"Every little bit counts."

Solar electric is NOT enough for an entire facility's needs and is
therefore SUPPLEMENTAL. It has always and ONLY been that way.

Why are you now taking about a whole facility, when the issue was rest
rooms? But regardless, you're wrong. Solar electric can make any
facility a net zero user of electricity, you just have to size the array
appropriately. Amazing you're making this claim, when I already showed
you an article with a picture of Tesla's new production factory that will
be entirely solar powered.

Solar water heating is NOT ENOUGH for a facility's needs, and would
only be supplemental in any location in which it is installed.

Wrong, always wrong. You just claimed that you can supply a sink with
a 1200W on-demand water heater. If I have ten sinks, twenty sinks,
thirty sinks, why exactly is it that I can't use a solar array?
Only your batteries can do it? Hello?

A battery fed DC HWOD system in the facility's restrooms, showers,
and kitchen units would be cheaper as the power feeding them was
stored at night when rates are cheaper, and is only SUPPLEMENTAL.

and the small difference in rates would never make up for the cost of
the huge battery bank and the install costs. You claim solar can't
supply it, yet you expect batteries to supply 1200W per sink. Where
do you put that battery bank?

Each one represents their own drop in the bucket. Each one is
beneficial.

Just like telling folks that slowing from 70 MPH to 55 MPH would
save not only them, but the entire nation would collectively save
thousands of barrels of refined gasoline a day.

And your battery idea is just about as practical and will be just about
as successful as Carter was with that.

Your quest to denigrate me and my idea is pretty pathetic.

You're doing that yourself by digging your hole ever deeper.
And I'm not the only one here tellling you you're wrong again, either.

And you wonder why I think the best residence for you would be next
to an ant hill in the desert buried nude up to your ears after being
dipped in rotten wet dog food. Oh and let's not forget the History
channel desert cam to get the video of nature in action. They'd
probably only eat the dogfood though, you being the total piece of
shit that you are. But the flies would love that!

So the only thing the solar panels could juice at the rate they
produce at would be to add to the BATTERY PACK.

Say what? A 10KW, 20KW solar array can't supply hot water to wash
your hands for sinks in a restroom?

You are really thick, punk. Stop being thick and start being
think. Oh, that's right... you irreversibly self retarded and there
will never be any chance of that.

And the beauty of solar, as
opposed to your battery bank,

Opposed? No. Never said that, punk. It too would merely be
supplemental, which is all my idea provides. In fact, many of the
buildings in the campus I mention *are* fitted out with solar.

Well, that's good. Looks like they've already solved the problem
you claim exists.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 5:00:06 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:87b31b56-501f-43a4-83c3-09fb406893bc@googlegroups.com:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:36:35 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:3a5bfe2e-0787-47b6- 8a24-14390074cb83@googlegroups.com:

You just need water that's at
comfortable hand washing temperature,

Your fucked in the head opinion. What makes you think that
lukewarm
water is sanitary? Much less the system it is drawn from.

What makes you think that water for hand washing has to be at
temperatures capable of sanitizing? That temp would scald your
hands, stupid. The purpose of hand washing is to wash off dirt
and bacteria, not sterilize your hands. People just want it at a
comfortable temperature and a warm temp helps a lot with getting
grease off.


You really are an abject idiot.

I never said anything about washing your hands with scalding hot
water.

You said that water needs to be heated to near boiling. You said it needs
to be hot enough to sanitize your hands. Two things wrong there. There is
no point to heating water hotter than it needs to be when used in any
on-demand water system. Second, people don't wash their hands to sanitize
them, to kill germs with the heat of the water. They wash them to remove
dirt and bacteria by washing it off.

I know it is hard for a 20 IQ abject idiot piece of shit like you
to grasp, but a person mixes his or her hand wash temp AT THE SINK.

not so much anymore. Most sinks in rest rooms, the hot water is about the
right temperature because that's all they heat it to.

I know it is hard for a 20 IQ abject idiot piece of shit like you
to grasp, but that very hot water shocks the cold water and it is
LESS of a bio hazard at that moment.

What bio hazard? The only bio hazard I'm aware of is with tank type
water heaters, where if the water isn't at least ~130F, there is the
risk of legionaire's disease. But you're sure not getting 130F water
out of a 1200W on-demand unit like you're talking about, nor is there
any bio risk period.

I know it is hard for a 20 IQ abject idiot piece of shit like you
to grasp, we use hot water not for comfort, or your retarded claim of
softening grease, we use it because it reduces the surface tension of
the water, which is where the term 'soft water' comes from.

ROFL I see, so now hot water = soft water. That's a new one for the
books.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 5:17:07 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:edf0061b-5262-4f5f-9368-6629348acc26@googlegroups.com:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:35:19 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:2cbd4b68-19d0-4bd4- a8ed-e35f31294d30@googlegroups.com:

Still waiting for any numbers that show any savings after you
pay for all the batteries and installation, maintenance cost.

No, dipshit. What you are doing is still mumbling.

And
that's assuming you have space at a restroom facility

Restroom facility? You are obviously clueless how large
corporate
research lab campus building are built, much less plumbed.

They don't have restrooms?

Yep. That's what they have. They don't have your precious
"restroom facilities". They are fully integrated with the building,
not separate.

No one said they were separate. But that's irrelevant anyway.

Your reading comprehension problem is showing again, child. Maybe
you are some 15 year old broken savant wannabe disphit. You sure do
sport reading issues a lot.

What do they have, outhouses?

Is that where your criminal fucktard father assfucked your criminal
whore mother so she could shit you?

to house a
battery bank.....

Restrooms house paper towels and toilet tissue. There was no
mention of any bettery banks. Nice try though.

Now you're lying. You proposed using batteries to heat water used
in restrooms. That requires a battery bank and it has to go
somewhere....

I never said it was going in the restroom, you abject idiot.

Your battery bank has to go somewhere, still waiting for you to
tell us where and how much space it will take up. Usually facilities,
like rest rooms, don't just have spare rooms waiting to become
battery banks.




I

would suggest that you take your savant wannabe punk ass out to a
remedial reading course and have a third party TEACH you, not your
retarded savant wannabe perception of what reading is.


If you have room for that, you have room
for a tank....

Installation and maintainence... hmmm. First thing to go on a
24/7/365 daily use gas fired tank? The thermocouple and gas line
switch. How often? Pretty friggin often.

Nonsense. And even if you have to replace a thermocouple, they
cost $15. What does a battery bank sufficient to heat water for
restrooms cost?


Bullshit. The thermos are more and the valve switch is WAY more,
and even if one has an in-house maintanence person his hours are not
cheap, and that includes the diagnostic and oh when it fails, if it
fails ON, the tank temp goes through the roof, and many different
catastrophic failures can happen at that point.

Of course nothing will ever fail with 70 on-demand water heaters,
your battery banks and associated gear.....

My system? Plug it in... turn it on.


ROFL. Sure, just plug it in. We're talking about commercial
restrooms, yes? A typical one has many sinks, it's not going to
be served with a plug in tankless, more likely it's going to be
served by a tankless that's direct wired on an appropriate
amperage circuit.

You really are thick, boy. No, there is not a plug. It was a
euphemism, you fucking savantwannabe retard.

I can only go by what you said and you said just plug it in.....




The only thing your

savant wannabe-ness got you is the retard part.

Here, dipshit... I'll make it plain and simple for you...

Wire it up, and go.

You are like worse than Chum Lee dumb but not even funny dumb.
And *that* is funny!

And after you just "plug it in", where does
your battery bank, of sufficient size to heat water during the
daytime go?

You must be really behind the times.

How much volume do you think such a bank should take up, Mr.
Knowitallwannbesavantwannabebutretardeddipshitwasallyougot?

Well, you tell us. You claim the energy required is so vast, it
can't be supplied by a solar array. Someone was posting here the other
day about a 1.5 gigawatt solar installation, so I guess it would have
to be a battery bigger than that, following your boxed in logic. You're the one
claiming it will work, I'd have thought you would have the battery sizing
calculations and costs over time, before putting forth your idea.

BTW, what's so special about heating water for bathrooms? You could
just store energy at the lower night rate from the grid and use
it to power many things.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, September 30, 2019 at 9:42:35 AM UTC+10, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 5:17:07 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:edf0061b-5262-4f5f-9368-6629348acc26@googlegroups.com:
On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:35:19 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
TraitorTard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:2cbd4b68-19d0-4bd4- a8ed-e35f31294d30@googlegroups.com:

<snip>

> Well, you tell us. You claim the energy required is so vast, it
can't be supplied by a solar array. Someone was posting here the other
day about a 1.5 gigawatt solar installation, so I guess it would have to be a battery bigger than that, following your boxed in logic.

That was a solar farm, not a solar collector on an existing building.

Trader4 doesn't have much of grasp of reality.

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 06:52:33 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 9:30:22 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 8:51:43 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 1:26:29 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4, Whoey Louie wrote:
On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 11:45:31 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 5:39:42 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote

Of course no solar company has never "failed us".....

The complete list of faltering or bankrupt green-energy
companies...
Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills...($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)

*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.

Cost for solar (and wind) generation was driven down to
where coal-fired major power facilities are uncompetitive, which
was an entirely worthwhile goal.

Tell that to Germans. Their dirty coal use has skyrocketed since
giving up nuclear, even though they have massively subsidized
solar and windmills.

They used to subsidise solar and windmills, but don't have to any more.


BS!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-energy/germany-to-increase-wind-and-solar-power-production-idUSKCN1NZ252

The new plan includes also cutting the subsidy for solar energy production from 11.09 euro cents ($0.1256) per kWh to 8.9 euro cents.


That's 11 cents a kwh SUBSIDY! The total cost here in the NYC area for
electric energy is just ~6 cents, which is typical for much of the USA,
so that Germany has to SUBSIDIZE solar to the tune of 11 cents is a freaking disaster.

Wrong, mostly wrong.

Yes, your facts seem to be mostly wrong.

"(Uniondale, NY—May 31, 2018) - PSEG Long Island today released the Power Supply Charge for June. Effective Friday, the Power Supply Charge will be 10.3085 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh)."

"in the New York-Newark-Jersey City area in May 2018, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported"... "Electricity prices averaged 21.0 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh), up from the 20.2 cents per kWh paid in May 2017"

"Residential electricity rates in NY [1]

Residential electricity rates in New York average 17.62˘/kWh, which ranks the state 3rd in the nation."

"The approximate range of residential electricity rates in the U.S. is 8.37˘/kWh to 37.34˘/kWh."

The BS detector is going off and it's pretty loud this time.

I'm confused. It seems like you are the one who is "always wrong".


No, you're the one who doesn't know WTF you're talking about. You tried
to tell us that your $15 monthly charge, which sounds like a meter charge,
covers the cost of energy distribution, ie the grid. Now you're trying
to tell us that electric rates are high. I'm a First Energy
customer in NJ and my latest bill, that I just looked at for you,
shows a rate of 11.6 cents per kwh. That's the total charge, for the
energy and for distribution. I have the bill.

I don't know what to tell you. You seem to be changing your numbers and it looks like you are very confused about what you are paying. Perhaps a neighbor can help you figure it out. Often retirees can help others who have trouble reading their bills. Have you asked anyone for help?

--

I haven't changed what I said. Let's review. Someone claimed that Germany
is no longer subsidizing solar electric. I provided a cite that shows that
not true, Germany recently reduced their subsidy so that now it's ~11 cents a kwh. I pointed out that in the NYC area, that can be your rate for electric
today, it's the ENTIRE cost! It's what I'm paying. You even posted where
you showed a rate from LI that was similar. If you don't like the NYC area, take most of the USA,
look at their rates for electric and it makes Germany look really, really
bad. The rate most Americans are paying, is just Germany has to subsidize
solar to make it competitive. So, boy those Germans are really fucked.

The electric rates in Vermont are around $0.17/kWh. Socialism works!

 

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 15:03:41 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
news:330d030e-eca7-4e22-b4c3-928bc572f3d4@googlegroups.com:

Not a good bet, and not all that relevant, if you haven't got a
handy outside wall or roof to support your solar collector where
the sun can shine on it.


One building, six restrooms (two genders so 12) and two shower
rooms each, up 24/7/365.

A full roof panel would not provide enough even for the sinks
alone, much less the showers.

Remember. no tank. So 1200 Watt POU units firing off every few
seconds at up to 70 sinks, and a couple showers.

Dat's a lotta juice.

Yeah, a lotta juice. More than you can calculate, obviously. 1200W?
You're crazy. Always, always, AlwaysWrong.

And solar setups with such huge up and down swing as loads nearly
always requires a battery bank for a buffer.

And a battery bank is going to do it? Show your math, AlwaysWrong
(you obviously can't, even though it's all been done for you).

 

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 06:57:20 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 4:52:34 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 13:03:37 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 3:30:50 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 11:28:18 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 2:13:29 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 11:03:37 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 1:39:32 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 16:37:17 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

upsidedown@downunder.com wrote in
news:6j8soe9pajlkktrh7rb702k8tvtp8d3ekv@4ax.com:

Storing electricity in batteries to be used several hours later to
heat water doesn't make any sense.

It makes a lot of sense, dumbass. Daytime electric costs more.
Firing this need from batteries means the meter does not spin during
the day from it. The only thing gained is a bit lower electric bill.
That is all the goal was.

USING electricity FROM batteries during the day on the HWOD units,
and THEN charging the batteries at night when the electric is cheaper.
Pretty fucking simple math there.

Damn. If you cannot even follow a simple idea, you have no chance
with anything complex.

Take a 1000 liter water tank, heat it to 95 C and then take out heat,
until the average temperature drops to 55 C, the temperature drop is
40 C or the energy stored and extracted is 40 C x 4 kJ/kg/C x 1000 kg
or 160000 kJ or 44 kWh. That is about the typical EV battery capacity.
How much does such batteries cost ? An insulated water tank is
definitively less than that.

Why are you heating water to 95°C???

To get as big delta-T as possible. The low limit is limited by the
reduced usability of only mild warm water.

Of course, I could heat to 120 or even 200 C, but that would require a
pressurized tank to avoid boiling the water.There are all kinds of
inspections for pressure vessels.

1000 liters is a big tank. I thought we were talking about domestic hot water use. At this point I have no idea what you are talking about.

1000 liters is about right size to keep a house warm during a winter
day after being charged with cheaper night electricity.

Why would anyone want to heat with straight electricity? That is the most expensive and least efficient.

Depends on country and production mix, which defines the electric
price. In Norway with lots of hydro production, direct heating is
popular. In Finland in the 1970's, when there was some nuclear
overproduction, the night tariffs were very cheap, Charging a big
water tank during the night made a lot sense.

Heat pump are much more practical in many areas.

These have become more popular recently.

Air heat pumps are useless below -15 C needing auxiliary direct
heating. Installing a lot of tubing in the ground will destroy your
garden. Drilling 100-200 m deep heat wells are the best option, but
quite expensive.

Why drill so deep? Here they just go 20 to 30M, deep enough to get
good water volume. I can't imagine any slight increase in temperature
by going that deep ever pays back the cost of all the extra depth.

You also have to get to (well below) the water table. That's often a
further down than 20-30M.

 

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 22:28:36 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in news:fdb5eb34-ad99-4988-
848e-4ad26db2a953@googlegroups.com:

ROFL I see, so now hot water = soft water. That's a new one for
the
books.

Ask a woman old enough to know about the bad old days of doing
laundry in the bright color days of the sixties and seventies.

Not new. Been known by man for likely hundreds if not thousands of
years. I guess that leaves you out.

Hot water is SOFTER than cold water. Period. I never said it
matched softened water, which you'll undoubtedly barf off about next.

Wow, AlwaysWrong. Hot water has less calcium carbonate (with a few
other carbonates) in it than cold water? When you heat the water,
where does the calcium go?

> Sorry, punk, but you got it wrong... again.

Sorry, AlwaysWrong. *YOU* are wrong. Always.

SoftER water has lower surface tension and is how cleaning works,
you fucking retard. HOT water is softER than cold water is.

Too bad your savantwannabebutgotretardinstead brain cannot handle
historical and physical fact.

Always wrong, AlwaysWrong.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, September 30, 2019 at 10:52:37 AM UTC+10, k...@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 22:28:36 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in news:fdb5eb34-ad99-4988-
848e-4ad26db2a953@googlegroups.com:

ROFL I see, so now hot water = soft water. That's a new one for
the
books.

Ask a woman old enough to know about the bad old days of doing
laundry in the bright color days of the sixties and seventies.

Not new. Been known by man for likely hundreds if not thousands of
years. I guess that leaves you out.

Hot water is SOFTER than cold water. Period. I never said it
matched softened water, which you'll undoubtedly barf off about next.

Wow, AlwaysWrong. Hot water has less calcium carbonate (with a few
other carbonates) in it than cold water? When you heat the water,
where does the calcium go?

It precipitates out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate

"Calcium carbonate is unusual in that its solubility increases with decreasing temperature.".

Sorry, punk, but you got it wrong... again.

Sorry, AlwaysWrong. *YOU* are wrong. Always.

Not this time. Why do you think that hot water tanks "scale up", as in get coated with lime scale?

SoftER water has lower surface tension and is how cleaning works,
you fucking retard. HOT water is softER than cold water is.

Too bad your savantwannabebutgotretardinstead brain cannot handle
historical and physical fact.

Always wrong, AlwaysWrong.

Krw puts in his bid for the title. He is not always wrong, but then again neither is DLUNU, and DLUNU has the advantage that he can learn, which is a skill that krw has yet to demonstrate here.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-09-30, krw@notreal.com <krw@notreal.com> wrote:

Hot water is SOFTER than cold water. Period. I never said it
matched softened water, which you'll undoubtedly barf off about next.

Wow, AlwaysWrong. Hot water has less calcium carbonate (with a few
other carbonates) in it than cold water?

no, it has much less calcium bicarbonate, calcium carbonate is
insoluble, both have essentially none of that.

When you heat the water,
where does the calcium go?

Mostly it sticks to the hot part of the boiler - the heating element, or
flame tube, whatever.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 29/09/2019 22:24, Whoey Louie wrote:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 11:40:02 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:qmqi8r$128a$1@gioia.aioe.org:

Space and water heating are both more cost effective using gas.


No one argued that. EVER.

I was talking about saving a company money where they already have
under sink POU (POINT OF USE) HWOD units. Those are ALL electrically
fired, and yes, a properly configured unit CAN deliver hot water with
only 1200 watts.

It all depends on your definition of hot and what flow rate is acceptable.
In a previous post you claimed near boiling water was needed for sanitary
reasons. You'd get a tiny trickle at that delta. Of course no one but you thinks
they need near boiling water. A sink would have a trickle with a 60F delta
at only 1200W. Such a unit sounds like one for somebody who's stuck with
an existing 15A outlet and has no choice or where the incoming water is
already 70F and they only want 100F water.

They actually have a 6L, 10L or 15L hot tank inside and Always wrong is
just too clueless to know this. If the product he described existed in
the US then he would be able to point to an example of it.

Or perhaps US water has a different heat capacity to that in the ROW?

Here is an example from the UK 2kW and 10L tank.

https://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog/ariston-andris-lux-10l-under-sink-unvented-electric-water-heater-3100306

I could not find one in the UK with as low a power as 1200W the most
feeble cheap and nasty one I could find was 1.5kW with 6L tank.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/redring-ms6-undersink-stored-water-heater-1-5kw-6ltr/5314P

Always wrong is as ever always wrong.

They are HWOD so long as they are in steady use, but if there is a
sudden burst of activity the hot water very quickly runs out.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in news:qmseev
$1elp$1@gioia.aioe.org:

They are HWOD so long as they are in steady use, but if there is a
sudden burst of activity the hot water very quickly runs out.

Laughable stupidity there, putz.

HWOD, by definition, is meant to fulfill 'sudden burst' demand.
That makes your crack even more stupid than the dipshit you are trying
to back up.

With units on every sink, the only think in danger of 'running out'
during one of your precious 'sudden burst' events is the patience of a
circuit breaker.

 

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in news:qmseev
$1elp$1@gioia.aioe.org:

Always wrong is as ever always wrong.

Martin Brown is the type of guy in need of a maturity upgrade visit.