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George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
news:67aac44b-0ce5-4d25-b6b6-71a61412fe56@googlegroups.com:
On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 10:41:35 AM UTC-4, John Larkin
wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:18:46 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 6:46:35 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 7/30/19 7:48 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:03:20 AM UTC-7,
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
The flaw there, is that the plating doesn't 'throw' as much
copper into small vias, both because the E-field at the
throat doesn't penetrate, and because the circumference is
less.
Got any actual data about that, or are you just guessing?
Field lines that put copper onto the sidewalls of a hole, are
radial inside the hole. The math of electric fields is my
reasoning, and complaints in the literature about plating inside
holes is supporting data (Printed Circuits Handbook, Clyde
Coombs is where I recall reading about this).
There are lots of PTH section images online, like this one:
http://www.eurocircuits.com/wp-content/uploads/ec2015/ecImage/blog
s/Microsection/Microsection%204.png
The plating generally looks uniform, a bit thinner than the
surface
Nice pic. Typically aren't the inner layers 1/2 oz... It looks
like the hole has about the same thickness as the inner layers..
maybe a bit more.
If you get 2 oz copper on the outer layers, do they do that by
plating up from 1/2 oz? That would make the copper on the PTH's
thicker too.
https://www.epectec.com/articles/pcb-surface-finish-advantages-and-
disadvantages.html
Fuck Copper. Use ENIG.
These days with internet and google you can broaden your view both in
electronics and other sciences without paging through hundreds of books
in libraries.
All in minutes, no need to go anywhere and as much in depth as you want.
First, there are different types/grades of bias. It is one thing to setOn a sunny day (Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:09:47 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff
dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <qhrsts$2e0$1@dont-email.me>:
No person in the western world would even think to consider the Kremlin
media being a news source, I suspect he has "discovered" his
RT source < 5 years ago.
Bull
rt.com is a news source,
just like Fox TV,
chinaplus.cri.cn
cnn
bbc
etc etc
All are in a way biased towards - and controlled by the countries that own those.
That is why you should follow several, and not just your western propaganda
to get an idea what other cultures do and see where other cultures are at.
One of the great things of having a movable satellite dish is, at
least here in Europe,
that I can see thousands of channels from many many cultures, Middle
East, India,
Africa, S America, Russia, China, most European countries and of
course the British,
and I can tell you that each television station is under their
government control.
So much for me in MY western world, dunno what locally made illusions
you live in.
Broaden your horizon.
Stop attacking Mr Doom he has a right to his POV just like you if you are sincere
about your so called western freedoms that are as much an illusion in reality
a the twittering of the US Precedent alias Agent Orange,
On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 10:41:35 AM UTC-4, John Larkin
wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:18:46 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 6:46:35 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 7/30/19 7:48 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:03:20 AM UTC-7,
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
The flaw there, is that the plating doesn't 'throw' as much
copper into small vias, both because the E-field at the
throat doesn't penetrate, and because the circumference is
less.
Got any actual data about that, or are you just guessing?
Field lines that put copper onto the sidewalls of a hole, are
radial inside the hole. The math of electric fields is my
reasoning, and complaints in the literature about plating inside
holes is supporting data (Printed Circuits Handbook, Clyde
Coombs is where I recall reading about this).
There are lots of PTH section images online, like this one:
http://www.eurocircuits.com/wp-content/uploads/ec2015/ecImage/blog
s/Microsection/Microsection%204.png
The plating generally looks uniform, a bit thinner than the
surface
Nice pic. Typically aren't the inner layers 1/2 oz... It looks
like the hole has about the same thickness as the inner layers..
maybe a bit more.
If you get 2 oz copper on the outer layers, do they do that by
plating up from 1/2 oz? That would make the copper on the PTH's
thicker too.
Nice pic. Typically aren't the inner layers 1/2 oz... It looks like theOn Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:18:46 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 6:46:35 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 7/30/19 7:48 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:03:20 AM UTC-7, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
The flaw there, is that the plating doesn't 'throw' as much copper into
small vias, both because the E-field at the throat doesn't penetrate,
and because the circumference is less.
Got any actual data about that, or are you just guessing?
Field lines that put copper onto the sidewalls of a hole, are radial
inside the hole. The math of electric fields is my reasoning, and
complaints in the literature about plating inside holes is supporting
data (Printed Circuits Handbook, Clyde Coombs is where I recall
reading about this).
There are lots of PTH section images online, like this one:
http://www.eurocircuits.com/wp-content/uploads/ec2015/ecImage/blogs/Microsection/Microsection%204.png
The plating generally looks uniform, a bit thinner than the surface
traces. Phil says that the conductivity of plated copper is inferior
to pure copper.
The e-field must be about zero deep inside the hole.
I could measure electrical resistivity as a proxy for thermal
conductivity. The conversion factor is usually about 150,000 K/W per
ohm.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics
On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 11:13:29 AM UTC-4,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
news:67aac44b-0ce5-4d25-b6b6-71a61412fe56@googlegroups.com:
On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 10:41:35 AM UTC-4, John Larkin
wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:18:46 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 6:46:35 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs
wrote:
On 7/30/19 7:48 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:03:20 AM UTC-7,
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
The flaw there, is that the plating doesn't 'throw' as
much copper into small vias, both because the E-field at
the throat doesn't penetrate, and because the
circumference is less.
Got any actual data about that, or are you just guessing?
Field lines that put copper onto the sidewalls of a hole,
are radial inside the hole. The math of electric fields is
my reasoning, and complaints in the literature about plating
inside holes is supporting data (Printed Circuits Handbook,
Clyde Coombs is where I recall reading about this).
There are lots of PTH section images online, like this one:
http://www.eurocircuits.com/wp-content/uploads/ec2015/ecImage/b
log s/Microsection/Microsection%204.png
The plating generally looks uniform, a bit thinner than the
surface
Nice pic. Typically aren't the inner layers 1/2 oz... It looks
like the hole has about the same thickness as the inner
layers.. maybe a bit more.
If you get 2 oz copper on the outer layers, do they do that by
plating up from 1/2 oz? That would make the copper on the
PTH's thicker too.
https://www.epectec.com/articles/pcb-surface-finish-advantages-and
- disadvantages.html
Fuck Copper. Use ENIG.
Isn't the nickle plated over the copper?
I assume the copper is
still carrying the current and heat.
No more or less than any other planar circuit trace layout wouldSay are ENIG boards magnetic at all?
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 20:34:15 +0100, Mike wrote:
I'd have thought a metre of rain would have mostly washed
Scotland into the North sea.
We can but hope.
- Chris, England.
On 7/31/2019 16:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:09:47 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff
dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <qhrsts$2e0$1@dont-email.me>:
No person in the western world would even think to consider the Kremlin
media being a news source, I suspect he has "discovered" his
RT source < 5 years ago.
Bull
rt.com is a news source,
just like Fox TV,
chinaplus.cri.cn
cnn
bbc
etc etc
All are in a way biased towards - and controlled by the countries that own those.
That is why you should follow several, and not just your western propaganda
to get an idea what other cultures do and see where other cultures are at.
First, there are different types/grades of bias. It is one thing to set
the agenda by selecting what will go into the news and another to
distort the news and publish outright lies. The BBC do only the former,
Russian controlled media do the latter all the time, especially via
their troll farms.
And the British media must provide impartiality, such is the law
there. Not sure how much good it does, but I have yet to see someone
beat them in that.
One of the great things of having a movable satellite dish is, at
least here in Europe,
that I can see thousands of channels from many many cultures, Middle
East, India,
Africa, S America, Russia, China, most European countries and of
course the British,
and I can tell you that each television station is under their
government control.
So much for me in MY western world, dunno what locally made illusions
you live in.
Broaden your horizon.
You forget that I grew up in communistic Bulgaria. "Defected" 1988 when
I was 33.
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 11:29:21 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:56:05 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
723c5c5e-3d84-4ea1-acba-2e2b57011ab0@googlegroups.com>:
I can't say. I never watch television.
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
That's why it's important we ban books -- they've got no commercials,
plant no tracking cookies, and take too much time away from television.
Exactly, books kill trees so cause glowballworming, are heavy, no online updates,
fire hazard, take too much space, no live experiment movies, sensitive to fungus,
not waterproof, lower data per dollar than google and bing, usually only a one person POV,
and once you have read one all it is good for is fix a wobbling table or something.
I bought an ebook reader some time ago, it has an e-ink display.
is water proof, has WiFi and a bad browser, has some books on it
started reading those ..yuck, no, interfaced it to my navigation system
was all about that display, that is OK:
http://panteltje.com/pub/xgpspc_to_aqua2_IXIMG_0105.JPG
slow refresh... Very good readable in intense sunlight,
you could probably put the work of the great writers here on it,
and save trees.
No color.
I does not do teefee, way to slow.
Solution?
I think not.
Back to the laptop or pad.
I have a Sony e-book reader. E-ink is slick. But as beautiful as
it is, books are better. Much. (The Sony gets next to zero use.)
On a sunny day (Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:56:05 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
723c5c5e-3d84-4ea1-acba-2e2b57011ab0@googlegroups.com>:
That's why it's important we ban books -- they've got no commercials,
plant no tracking cookies, and take too much time away from television.
Exactly, books kill trees so cause glowballworming, are heavy, no online updates,
fire hazard, take too much space, no live experiment movies, sensitive to fungus,
not waterproof, lower data per dollar than google and bing, usually only a one person POV,
and once you have read one all it is good for is fix a wobbling table or something.
I bought an ebook reader some time ago, it has an e-ink display.
is water proof, has WiFi and a bad browser, has some books on it
started reading those ..yuck, no, interfaced it to my navigation system
was all about that display, that is OK:
http://panteltje.com/pub/xgpspc_to_aqua2_IXIMG_0105.JPG
slow refresh... Very good readable in intense sunlight,
you could probably put the work of the great writers here on it,
and save trees.
No color.
I does not do teefee, way to slow.
Solution?
I think not.
Back to the laptop or pad.
UK to move back to imperial units?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/the-comma-touch-jacob-rees-mogg-sends-language-rules-to-staff
Now all we need is Pi = 3 (or 4)
How very sad when clueless politicians dictate science,
hope UK leaves EU today.
Absolutely unacceptable, and shows the ongoing chaos,
got to be a sign of an IQ equal to apes.
Ask yourself what is the future for UK now,
this sort of dictatorship seems unacceptable to any sane person,
those lot are hopefully still a majority in the UK.
I am not pleased to learn about this folly.
duh
Martin Brown wrote:
On 29/07/2019 15:12, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 7/27/19 9:21 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 12:36:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
UK to move back to imperial units?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/the-comma-touch-jacob-rees-mogg-sends-language-rules-to-staff
Now all we need is Pi = 3 (or 4)
2pi = 6 is usually close enough.
It's a game in our place to do math in our heads, standing at
the whiteboard.
Ours too.
Does that RC time constant affect the loop? Think for three or
four seconds and decide.
Newbies and visitors are impressed.
I would find it very difficult to design things if I didn't have
a pretty accurate feel for the magnitudes of different effects,
e.g. the parallel capacitance of a resistor.
I agree.
That is one thing that has been lost in the modern era of graphing
calculators and spreadsheets everywhere.
People have lost the ability to sanity check their calculations to
the nearest order of magnitude (as you always had to do when using
a SR).
I don't think that is true. Sanity checking is something that
you acquire with experience. Young people will get there, little
by little. And then *they* start complaining that the *next*
generation has "lost" that ability. It has always been thus.
So what ?. So he should be banned from public life just because some
disagree with his opinions ?. You don't counter extremism by banning it,
you let them speak and counter it with a better argument.
On 31/07/19 16:46, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 19:00:12 +0100, Chris wrote:
So what ?. So he should be banned from public life just because
some disagree with his opinions ?. You don't counter extremism
by banning it, you let them speak and counter it with a better
argument.
Er, that's why the likes of Robertson, Sloman, bitrex and the
rest of them just want to ban dissenting opinions: they have no
better argument and when one has no better argument, the obvious
"solution" is to ban the dissent.
Rubbish.
They dislike ignorant opinions, and correctly don't regard all
opinions as being of equal value.
You get battered because your opinions are more asinine and
visibly ridiculous than most. Even so, you do occasionally make
sensible points.
I think these three hapless prize chumps would be better off in
China or N. Korea and certainly feel more at home there; so
what's keeping them from going? Seems like an obvious win-win to
me.
Classic nonsense. /You/ are the person that like Russian
propaganda; why don't you go and live there.
That would probably increase the intelligence of both
Russia and wherever it is you live (not the UK, by
your own statements)
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 15:29:10 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Exactly, books kill trees so cause glowballworming, are heavy, no online
updates,
fire hazard, take too much space, no live experiment movies, sensitive
to fungus,
not waterproof, lower data per dollar than google and bing, usually only
a one person POV,
and once you have read one all it is good for is fix a wobbling table or
something.
.... and while you're enjoying some great TV programs, why not tuck into
something equally delightful to eat?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49127499
You'll be saving the planet, too!
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 19:00:12 +0100, Chris wrote:
So what ?. So he should be banned from public life just because some
disagree with his opinions ?. You don't counter extremism by banning it,
you let them speak and counter it with a better argument.
Er, that's why the likes of Robertson, Sloman, bitrex and the rest of
them just want to ban dissenting opinions: they have no better argument
and when one has no better argument, the obvious "solution" is to ban the
dissent.
I think these three hapless prize chumps would be better off in China or
N. Korea and certainly feel more at home there; so what's keeping them
from going? Seems like an obvious win-win to me.
First, there are different types/grades of bias. It is one thing to set
the agenda by selecting what will go into the news and another to
distort the news and publish outright lies. The BBC do only the former,
Russian controlled media do the latter all the time, especially via
their troll farms.
And the British media must provide impartiality, such is the law
there. Not sure how much good it does, but I have yet to see someone
beat them in that.
On a sunny day (Wed, 31 Jul 2019 18:26:11 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff
dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <qhsbuk$nd1$1@dont-email.me>:
On 7/31/2019 16:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:09:47 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff
dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <qhrsts$2e0$1@dont-email.me>:
No person in the western world would even think to consider the Kremlin
media being a news source, I suspect he has "discovered" his
RT source < 5 years ago.
Bull
rt.com is a news source,
just like Fox TV,
chinaplus.cri.cn
cnn
bbc
etc etc
All are in a way biased towards - and controlled by the countries that own those.
That is why you should follow several, and not just your western propaganda
to get an idea what other cultures do and see where other cultures are at.
First, there are different types/grades of bias. It is one thing to set
the agenda by selecting what will go into the news and another to
distort the news and publish outright lies. The BBC do only the former,
Russian controlled media do the latter all the time, especially via
their troll farms.
And the British media must provide impartiality, such is the law
there. Not sure how much good it does, but I have yet to see someone
beat them in that.
One of the great things of having a movable satellite dish is, at
least here in Europe,
that I can see thousands of channels from many many cultures, Middle
East, India,
Africa, S America, Russia, China, most European countries and of
course the British,
and I can tell you that each television station is under their
government control.
So much for me in MY western world, dunno what locally made illusions
you live in.
Broaden your horizon.
You forget that I grew up in communistic Bulgaria. "Defected" 1988 when
I was 33.
I did not know that.. So you are an undercover Agent from Russia ;-)
One system or the other, I am a bit pro-Russia because of my history.
I do have great respect for Russia, and I find it silly to credit the election
of US Precedent Agent Orange to Russia.
History.. that US election was rigged, it was not even the choice of the people..
Maybe it is me,. but I do not notice much Russian posting in newsgroups.
There is one poster in alt.politics.europe who is against EU I think, but he may well be an Agent Orange minion.
Often Agent Orange sends his minions to Europe to create diversity by stirring up nationalism and ultra right.
That includes Boris and a lot of other players.
Nationalism A.O. thinks will make EU fall apart.
I was reading today that in California now if you want to run for Precedent eeeh president you HAVE to show the taxes
over the last few years.
That rules out ..Orange.
It is just one of the signs of the United States falling apart, states going their own way.
California likely will create better connections with China, already on the east coast China has a foothold.
The east as it was before the iron curtain (wall) fell was not so bad as some may want you to believe,
in fact everything the western press accused Russia of in those day they now do it themselves on better,
like listening in to everybody, recording everybody, you know.
So much for freedom.
US cops shooting random people, gun manufacturers running the government
US caused regime change in more than 400 countries since WW2.
You are free to live there, been there, had adventures there, ..
one thing I noticed when I came back from those adventures (that I will not go into detail about here,
but have mentioned some in the past) is how relaxed things were back in Holland
compared to stressed out 'merrica.
People get shot all the time, I had a gun to my head, when some people were talking garlic some body randomly killed people
in a garlic festival in US I did read.
High school shootings, any body can buy a gun, some will flip out and there you go as 'law abiding' citizen...
No, things are more relaxed here where not everybody carries a gun, safer too, although all the import
from countries the US destroyed by its wars do kill people here too, also
import from countries in Eastern Europe.
So all I can say I hope you are happy with that system but I NEVER had a longing to live there.
I have not been to Russia, have been to East Germany before the wall fell, and it did not suffer from the hyper-tension
I see in US people.
Your gun laws should change, but it is too late,
Cities will bleed down like Detroit no more services,
warlords, slavery *(keeping illegals in sweatshops hiding as workers),
Reagan was better, he made them legal so they had to pay taxes...
No, What is the difference between trumps wall and the wall in Berlin?
Trumps wall is in reality designed to keep the 'merricans from leaving,
not to stop the cheap labour from entering, see that?
For the same reason he does not allow 'merricans to travel to Cuba, if they do they will
see that life is much more relaxed there then in the US,.
THAT is what is going on.
end of propaganda
It is just one of the signs of the United States falling apart,
states going their own way.
Trumps wall is in reality designed to keep the 'merricans from
leaving, not to stop the cheap labour from entering, see that?
For the same reason he does not allow 'merricans to travel to
Cuba, if they do they will see that life is much more relaxed
there then in the US,. THAT is what is going on.