OT: UK to move back to imperial units?

[Chris]

On 07/30/19 11:37, Martin Brown wrote:

On 30/07/2019 00:11, Chris wrote:
On 07/29/19 23:59, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:14:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

He's just being a Panteltje. We're used to it round here.

Thanks for clearing that up, Phil. I was beginning to wonder.

Reece Mogg is old school english, but I don't have a problem
with that. If he wants so specify rules in his own office,
then fair enough, though the left wing msm will present it in
the most prejudicial way possible, as usual...

He is pretty much the epitome of a nineteenth century rich landed gentry
from an old money family. He might yet even make a decent Leader of the
House (it is difficult to see how he could be any worse than Leadsom).

I wonder if he knows the difference between the commonly used:

I would be obliged if you could <do something for me

and the original correct grammatical form:

I should be obliged if you would <do something for me

When I was at school English grammar was only taught to people studying
foreign languages and nothing beyond basic subject, object and verb in
English class. I understand it has been dumbed down even further now.

Most of what I know about English grammar is from Latin classes.

Fowlers English Usage, is a good reference, but the whole thing about
language is that it's always changing. What is in current usage
doesn't necessarily invalidate the past. Depends on context and
situation. Whatever, but grammar police are generally a pain in the
whatsit anyway ...

Chris

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:53:34 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
<776fd84a-fa2b-4db4-bf5d-9f6e4fdf1c5f@googlegroups.com>:

On 29/07/19 07:36, Jan Panteltje wrote:
I have used up me monny to buy a new 10 core 10.1 inch PAD:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/113824132952
To see if it stands the cyber attacks.

Jan, will you be loading Linny-ex on that nifty Googledroid spypad
Jan-tapper?

The thought has certainly crossed my mind.
But since I am no droid expert it is probably not so simple.
I had a closer look at its 10 core processor, and it is ARM:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/mediatek/helio/mt6797#Die
so to install the penguin I could try something like this:
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-linux-on-android/
https://www.androidauthority.com/install-ubuntu-on-your-android-smartphone-765408/

I got a strange email from ebay about this today, have emailed them,
no shipping / tracking code yet, hope it is not a fake seller.

We will see, expected arrival August-September...
Will know more in a week or so.
There are plenty of these cheap tablets around, cheap likely because it is 3G only.
Make no difference to me, I use it with WiFi.

 

[Chris]

On 07/30/19 01:40, Tom Gardner wrote:

The problem arises when he imposes it on the whole country
(which, as a lawmaker, he has done), or makes the UK look
stupid (which he does with his "metric is bad" stuff).

Ok, so give me an example of "imposing it on the whole
country" ?.

Presumably he wants to measure capacitance in Jars.


then fair enough, though the left wing msm will present it in
the most prejudicial way possible, as usual...

Ah. A fanatic that sees something and automatically
presumes a conspiracy.

Not at all. Not a party man here and vote for who I
think will be good for the country, but the fact is that
the msm in this country (England) are predominantly left
wing and twist the facts on a regular basis to suit the
agenda. No conspiracy required. Current main agendas are
climate change, try to stop Brexit and most recently,
slag off anything they can about the Johnson leadership
campaign. Then they have the cheek to moan about ever
increasing levels of fake news, when they are one of the main
purveyors of it.

Have been a Guardian subscriber, print edition for over
ten years and well aware of their contempt for the
intelligence of their readers. Not sure how much longer
though...

Chris

 

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 3:59:14 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 29 Jul 2019 08:00:09 +0100) it happened Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in <ZPw%E.1842519$Ud5.1107892@fx12.am4>:

On 29/07/19 07:36, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 28 Jul 2019 21:24:21 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Chris
cbx@noreply.com> wrote in <qhl3q5$ase$16@dont-email.me>:

On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 15:59:59 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

No, US was helping.

Not until Pearl Harbour at the end of 1941.

OK, was there not some weapon research exchange UK -US?
Anyways from 1941 onwards is most of the war.
UK was lucky they invented microwave radar (magnetron).
They were very surprised about V1 and V2 rockets, as UK scientists told their
government such long range rockets could not work with gunpowder (true) .
but Germany did not use gunpowder...

British Scientific Intelligence was aware of the V1 and V2,
although they didn't know the details. See RV Jones' account
in "Most Secret War" - which is still worth reading 45
years after it was published.

Only 96$32 hardcover new on mamazon...
https://www.amazon.com/Most-secret-war-R-Jones/dp/0241897467

I have used up me monny to buy a new 10 core 10.1 inch PAD:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/113824132952
To see if it stands the cyber attacks.

Jan, will you be loading Linny-ex on that nifty Googledroid spypad
Jan-tapper?

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 11:29:21 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:56:05 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
723c5c5e-3d84-4ea1-acba-2e2b57011ab0@googlegroups.com>:

I can't say. I never watch television.
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc


That's why it's important we ban books -- they've got no commercials,
plant no tracking cookies, and take too much time away from television.

Exactly, books kill trees so cause glowballworming, are heavy, no online updates,
fire hazard, take too much space, no live experiment movies, sensitive to fungus,
not waterproof, lower data per dollar than google and bing, usually only a one person POV,
and once you have read one all it is good for is fix a wobbling table or something.

I bought an ebook reader some time ago, it has an e-ink display.
is water proof, has WiFi and a bad browser, has some books on it
started reading those ..yuck, no, interfaced it to my navigation system
was all about that display, that is OK:
http://panteltje.com/pub/xgpspc_to_aqua2_IXIMG_0105.JPG
slow refresh... Very good readable in intense sunlight,
you could probably put the work of the great writers here on it,
and save trees.
No color.
I does not do teefee, way to slow.
Solution?
I think not.
Back to the laptop or pad.

I have a Sony e-book reader. E-ink is slick. But as beautiful as
it is, books are better. Much. (The Sony gets next to zero use.)

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 30/07/19 18:14, Chris wrote:

On 07/30/19 01:40, Tom Gardner wrote:


The problem arises when he imposes it on the whole country
(which, as a lawmaker, he has done), or makes the UK look
stupid (which he does with his "metric is bad" stuff).


Ok, so give me an example of "imposing it on the whole
country" ?.

His religious opinions about abortion, same sex marriages,
and similar.

Presumably he wants to measure capacitance in Jars.


then fair enough, though the left wing msm will present it in
the most prejudicial way possible, as usual...

Ah. A fanatic that sees something and automatically
presumes a conspiracy.

Not at all. Not a party man here and vote for who I
think will be good for the country, but the fact is that
the msm in this country (England) are predominantly left
wing and twist the facts on a regular basis to suit the
agenda. No conspiracy required. Current main agendas are
climate change, try to stop Brexit and most recently,
slag off anything they can about the Johnson leadership
campaign. Then they have the cheek to moan about ever
increasing levels of fake news, when they are one of the main
purveyors of it.

Have been a Guardian subscriber, print edition for over
ten years and  well aware of their contempt for the
intelligence of their readers. Not sure how much longer
though...

QED, I believe.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 08:59:01 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 29/07/2019 15:12, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 7/27/19 9:21 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 12:36:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:


UK to move back to imperial units?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/the-comma-touch-jacob-rees-mogg-sends-language-rules-to-staff


Now all we need is Pi = 3 (or 4)


2pi = 6 is usually close enough.

It's a game in our place to do math in our heads, standing at the
whiteboard.

Ours too.


Does that RC time constant affect the loop? Think for three or four
seconds and decide.

Newbies and visitors are impressed.

I would find it very difficult to design things if I didn't have a
pretty accurate feel for the magnitudes of different effects, e.g. the
parallel capacitance of a resistor.

I agree.

That is one thing that has been lost in the modern era of graphing
calculators and spreadsheets everywhere.

People have lost the ability to sanity check their calculations to the
nearest order of magnitude (as you always had to do when using a SR).

We bailed out of most of our EE labs and faked the reports. We
developed a precisely sloppy way to use a slide rule that made
beautiful looking scatter plots, just like a careful experimenter
would have done it.

We got As when everyone else was struggling for Ds. Most of the
equipment in the lab was broken.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:03:14 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 10:56:13 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:33:27 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 7/29/19 12:48 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:13:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

I do a bit of both. Memorizing a few facts helps too, e.g. for thermal
vias, PTH copper is about 40-um thick and small vias (10 mil) are mostly
copper.

We have debated here about whether to pave a copper pour with a lot of
small vias or a fewer number of big ones.

You get more copper per square by using the smallest vias that get the
full metal thickness down in the middle. With a 40-micron copper
thickness, a 10-mil finished hole (250 um) has an unfinished diameter of
250+80 um, i.e.

pi/4*(330 um)**2 = 0.086 mm**2

and the finished hole's area is

pi/4*(250 um)**2 = 0.049 mm**2

so the hole area is 1 - 0.049/0.086 = 42% copper. Plated copper's
alpha is about 380 W/m/K, and FR-4's is about 0.25 W/m/K. So assuming
perfect heat spreaders on both sides, a 1.6 mm board with a rectangular
array of these holes spaced by a distance d will have a thermal
conductance per square metre of

1/theta(d) = (0.049E-6*380/d**2 + 0.25)/0.0016.

For holes on 1.5 mm pitch, this is 5300 W/K/m**2. For a square
centimetre of thermal pad, we get 1E-4 square metres, so

theta = 1/0.53 ~ 2 K/W, not bad, and that's only a 6 x 6 array of holes.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


You can get 0.2 W/K




My production people don't like vias in pads, so a dpak or SOT89 or
whatever needs to have a solid pad, then a region of solder-masked
topside copper, then copper with a lot of vias. That will work for my
dpak resistor, and I'd be happy to get somewhere near, say, 6 to 8 k/w
overall.

That scheme doesn't work well for power pad parts that have leads all
around. They just have to deal with vias in the pads.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

I'm glad to discover you guys bringing this gem up here (rudely
hijacking an OT thread).

I too came to Phil's calculation that a dense smattering of small vias
laid down the most copper, but got John's lament from assembly houses
that the vias gobble the solder paste. "Don't do that," they said.

Maybe a sensible tack would be using small vias to maximize copper,
then estimating the aggregate void, and then estimating the paste
application adjustment from that, such that the voids are filled and
there's enough solder film left to bond the part.

Pass that info on to manufacturing, and Bob's your Brexit. I mean
uncle.

Grins,
James Arthur

I found a very old bare PCB to play with. Here's a Caddock 50 ohm dpak
being abused.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2en81s4t2ckkiqt/Caddock_on_TEM.JPG?raw=1

I'm seeing 17 K/W in still air, 13 with a fan. The DPAK is painfully
hot but the copper patch on the bottom of the board (just like the one
on top) is just warm. The vias seem to dominate theta.

My pulse generator can via the dpak to the layer 2 ground pour as well
as to a copper patch on the bottom, so that should be a bit better,
but that klunky via pattern has to be improved.


OT, interesting TDR.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1f6cjpf1d97lzs/Ohmite_TDR.JPG?raw=1


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Chris]

On 07/30/19 19:14, Tom Gardner wrote:

Your points are strawman arguments, which would be clearly
seen if you hadn't chosen to snip the context.

So what context did I snip ?, please explain.

Quite happy to debate, but arm waving says nothing...

Chris

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:23:01 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

We will see, expected arrival August-September...
Will know more in a week or so.
There are plenty of these cheap tablets around, cheap likely because it
is 3G only.
Make no difference to me, I use it with WiFi.

If you do find an open source replacement for Android which actually
works reasonably well, please let us know. Last time I asked about this
on one of the linux discussion groups no one could point to one, which
seems very odd, but perhaps times have moved on now. I can but hope
anyway.



--
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[Tom Gardner]

On 30/07/19 19:00, Chris wrote:

On 07/30/19 18:44, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/07/19 18:14, Chris wrote:
On 07/30/19 01:40, Tom Gardner wrote:


The problem arises when he imposes it on the whole country
(which, as a lawmaker, he has done), or makes the UK look
stupid (which he does with his "metric is bad" stuff).


Ok, so give me an example of "imposing it on the whole
country" ?.

His religious opinions about abortion, same sex marriages,
and similar.


So what ?. So he should be banned from public life just
because some disagree with his opinions ?. You don't counter
extremism by banning it, you let them speak and counter
it with a better argument.

It's a d e m o c r a c y, where diverse opinions should be
encouraged, or at worst tolerated and it's not as though
Mogg gets his own way about much without scrutiny by
parliament,the great leveler. He does however have a first
class  intellect and an encyclopaedic knowledge of uk law
and parliamentary procedure, so ideal for the role of father
of the house.

You may not like him, but people should be chosen on the
basis of ability, not their opinions, even though we are
on the edge of a thought crime state in many ways...

Your points are strawman arguments, which would be clearly
seen if you hadn't chosen to snip the context.

Unimpressive, but typical of those that use acronyms such
as "msm".

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:53:17 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Cursitor
Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote in <qhq06d$tel$1@dont-email.me>:

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 15:29:10 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Exactly, books kill trees so cause glowballworming, are heavy, no online
updates,
fire hazard, take too much space, no live experiment movies, sensitive
to fungus,
not waterproof, lower data per dollar than google and bing, usually only
a one person POV,
and once you have read one all it is good for is fix a wobbling table or
something.

.... and while you're enjoying some great TV programs, why not tuck into
something equally delightful to eat?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49127499

You'll be saving the planet, too!

Next may be a BBC article about cannibalism,
you see here: Africa does it too, keeps the population boom in check'.
Click here:
Would you
Would you not?


I actually clicked 'no' on that BBC site, and am still with the majority.
^^^
Totally unacceptable.

 

[Chris]

On 07/30/19 18:44, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 30/07/19 18:14, Chris wrote:
On 07/30/19 01:40, Tom Gardner wrote:


The problem arises when he imposes it on the whole country
(which, as a lawmaker, he has done), or makes the UK look
stupid (which he does with his "metric is bad" stuff).


Ok, so give me an example of "imposing it on the whole
country" ?.

His religious opinions about abortion, same sex marriages,
and similar.

So what ?. So he should be banned from public life just
because some disagree with his opinions ?. You don't counter
extremism by banning it, you let them speak and counter
it with a better argument.

It's a d e m o c r a c y, where diverse opinions should be
encouraged, or at worst tolerated and it's not as though
Mogg gets his own way about much without scrutiny by
parliament,the great leveler. He does however have a first
class intellect and an encyclopaedic knowledge of uk law
and parliamentary procedure, so ideal for the role of father
of the house.

You may not like him, but people should be chosen on the
basis of ability, not their opinions, even though we are
on the edge of a thought crime state in many ways...

Chris

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 15:29:10 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Exactly, books kill trees so cause glowballworming, are heavy, no online
updates,
fire hazard, take too much space, no live experiment movies, sensitive
to fungus,
not waterproof, lower data per dollar than google and bing, usually only
a one person POV,
and once you have read one all it is good for is fix a wobbling table or
something.

..... and while you're enjoying some great TV programs, why not tuck into
something equally delightful to eat?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/49127499

You'll be saving the planet, too!



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[Mike]

In article <qhotc4$1lft$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

People have lost the ability to sanity check their calculations to the
nearest order of magnitude

That would explain why a BBC 1pm news weather presenter recently looked
at his graphics, showing "20-100mm" of rain expected over Scotland, pointed
at it quite straight faced, "... worse over the mountains, yes, that's
a metre of rain, that's possible, and could cause significant problems".

I'd have thought a metre of rain would have mostly washed Scotland
into the North sea.

Only out by a factor of 10. If we're talking orders of magnitude,
it's only an off by one error
--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk

 

[Martin Brown]

On 30/07/2019 19:00, Chris wrote:

On 07/30/19 18:44, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/07/19 18:14, Chris wrote:
On 07/30/19 01:40, Tom Gardner wrote:


The problem arises when he imposes it on the whole country
(which, as a lawmaker, he has done), or makes the UK look
stupid (which he does with his "metric is bad" stuff).


Ok, so give me an example of "imposing it on the whole
country" ?.

His religious opinions about abortion, same sex marriages,
and similar.


So what ?. So he should be banned from public life just
because some disagree with his opinions ?. You don't counter
extremism by banning it, you let them speak and counter
it with a better argument.

He is a sophist with almost enough intelligence to get away with it too.
He has all the characteristics of Janus facing both ways at once. He is
massively in favour of Brexit but his firm has set up a branch office in
Dublin to get around any problems his Brexit lunacy creates for the UK.

https://www.ft.com/content/38987fe2-6f19-11e8-92d3-6c13e5c92914

Not all of us are rich enough or suitably connected to obtain an Irish
passport (my cousin qualifies and has obtained hers). I was forced to
renew my UK passport early because of the UK rules screw up and I
narrowly missed getting one of the utter cock up ones that assumed
Brexit did happen on 29th March. I would have loved having one of those!

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/british-passports-eu-brexit-travel-home-office-legal/

Piss up in brewery this lot could not organise.
It will be fun to watch it all go to Hell in a handcart on Halloween.

It's a d e m o c r a c y, where diverse opinions should be
encouraged, or at worst tolerated and it's not as though
Mogg gets his own way about much without scrutiny by
parliament,the great leveler. He does however have a first
class  intellect and an encyclopaedic knowledge of uk law
and parliamentary procedure, so ideal for the role of father
of the house.

He may yet prove to be a decent leader of the house.
He could hardly be worse than Leadsom. Time will tell.

You may not like him, but people should be chosen on the
basis of ability, not their opinions, even though we are
on the edge of a thought crime state in many ways...

It depends what those opinions are.
Holocaust denial is back in fashion in some circles in the UK

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 08:48:15 -0700, dagmargoodboat wrote:

Dimiter's his own man, a bona fide long-time poster, and quite different
to the other two. It's surprising you'd mix them.

Thanks for that. First time I've got something like that wrong. He's
obviously an arsehole, anyway, so no guilt on my part. :-D



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This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
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[Tom Gardner]

On 30/07/19 19:29, Chris wrote:

On 07/30/19 19:14, Tom Gardner wrote:


Your points are strawman arguments, which would be clearly
seen if you hadn't chosen to snip the context.

So what context did I snip ?, please explain.

Quite happy to debate, but arm waving says nothing...

Sorry, but I am only too aware of the futility of wrestling
a pig in a mud bath.

Nobody else cares, and you aren't going to change your
mind.

 

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 8:29:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> Exactly, books kill trees so cause glowballworming, are heavy, no online updates,

You say that like it's a bad thing. Bookburning aside, 'no online updates' means
no historical revisionist tampering. Lies can be exposed, with the author's name
associated with them, which is rather a polite way to keep authors honest.

If NIST wants to publish errata for Abramowitz and Stegun's handbook,
that can be harvested from the online source, though. Just KNOW the
source, or be forever subject to trickery.

 

[Chris]

On 07/30/19 23:04, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 30/07/19 19:29, Chris wrote:
On 07/30/19 19:14, Tom Gardner wrote:


Your points are strawman arguments, which would be clearly
seen if you hadn't chosen to snip the context.

So what context did I snip ?, please explain.

Quite happy to debate, but arm waving says nothing...

Sorry, but I am only too aware of the futility of wrestling
a pig in a mud bath.

Nobody else cares, and you aren't going to change your
mind.

Maybe right, but I prefer an optimistic view, even if it means
disappointment from time to time. If you always look at the
ground, all you see is dirt, right ?.

Whatever, but like electronic design, if you cant visualise
the end result, how can you ever start to work out the
steps needed to get there ?...

Chris