OT It's all a Bloody con.........

[F Murtz]

F Murtz wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:10 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
Mr.T wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496975e8$0$18714$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Indeed, given the requirement that the lamp voltage be >= 220V, one
could even lawfully import US 110V incandescent lamps, and run them
through a transformer.
Or far more cheaply, wire two in series.
MrT.
I'm far from sure that will work properly. When an incandescent lamp is
turned on, its resistance rises as it heats up, over a period of a
fraction of a second. Put two in series, and a slight difference between
the initial resistances will cause one to heat up faster than the other.
The one that heats faster also sees its resistance rise faster, which in
turn means that its rate of heating relative to the other rises further
still.

It's easy to see that the end result of this is that one burns out
before the other can heat up enough to take its share of the load.

Christmas Tree lights are usually wired in series, but the fact that
there's a large number of them reduces this effect.

Sylvia.

Christmas Tree lights are NOT wired in series. If they were, once
just ONE bulb blew out, the whole lot wouldn't work. Please think
BEFORE you post, in futurer.
The older ones with bigger lamps (about 2" long ) were in series but had
something in the cap that that conducted when lamp blew and if too many
blew the others got brighter until in the end they all blew
You were supposed to change them as they went
The new tiny lamp strings have a combination of series and parallel.
Addenda. They did not all have the devices in the cap

Depend on brand

 

[$)C"> Horry ">]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:58:03 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 11, 4:40 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 11, 4:16 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 11, 3:21 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:
Note the definition
"incandescent lamp means an incandescent lamp for general
lighting services..."
So does that include the incandescent lamp in the fridge and/or
oven?
Are they for general lighting services?
They are for general lighting of the inside of the fridge and oven,
yes.
I doubt that's the intent of the expression "general lighting
services". It is clear that a lamp creates light, and that the
purpose of it is to cast that light over some area. If all such
lamps were deemed to be for general lighting services then the
phrase would be redundant, and would not have been included in the
legislation. Sylvia.
Then it isn't a clear definition by any means. What about a light
inside a pantry or even a walk-in robe? How are those lamps any
different from a lamp used in the fridge? How is a pantry light
different to a fridge light?
That's not the relevant test. You need to look at how a particular
model of incandescent lamp is most often going to be used. If it's for
general lighting service, and otherwise fits the definition, then it's
banned. The fact that you can find uses for the lamp that are not
general lighting service uses doesn't save the lamp from its fate.

So the question of distinguishing a pantry light from a fridge light
doesn't arise.

So why don't the manufacturers of current general lighting incandescent
globes just re package them saying they are to be used in fridges and
pantries only.

The test is how they are actually used, not what the manufacturer says
they're for. Saying that 100W light bulbs are for fridge use would be a
thinly disguised attempt to circumvent the regulation, particularly as
there's probably no fridge into which it would actually be possible to
fit such a bulb, even though it might have the right connector.

Sylvia.

Yet two minutes earlier, Sylvia replied thusly:

So is it perfectly legal to change over all my current general lighting
incandescent light globes with incandescent light globes from my oven
or fridge? I just checked and fridge lamp screws into my desk lamp and
lights properly. I'm not too sure about the oven lamp as it's a little
more difficult to access.

I don't see a problem legally, though most people won't do that because
lamps intended for fridge use are not very powerful, and won't provide
the required amount of light.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 11, 10:32 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:10 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
Mr.T wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496975e8$0$18714$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Indeed, given the requirement that the lamp voltage be >= 220V, one
could even lawfully import US 110V incandescent lamps, and run them
through a transformer.
Or far more cheaply, wire two in series.
MrT.
I'm far from sure that will work properly. When an incandescent lamp is
turned on, its resistance rises as it heats up, over a period of a
fraction of a second. Put two in series, and a slight difference between
the initial resistances will cause one to heat up faster than the other.
The one that heats faster also sees its resistance rise faster, which in
turn means that its rate of heating relative to the other rises further
still.
It's easy to see that the end result of this is that one burns out
before the other can heat up enough to take its share of the load.
Christmas Tree lights are usually wired in series, but the fact that
there's a large number of them reduces this effect.
Sylvia.
Christmas Tree lights are NOT wired in series. If they were, once
just ONE bulb blew out, the whole lot wouldn't work. Please think
BEFORE you post, in futurer.
Seems to me that I have had to go round a set of Christmas Tree lights
to find out which one isn't screwed in properly, thus extinguishing the
entire set.


As soon as I pressed the send key I knew you'd backpedal with this
type of response. Yes Sylvia, SOME older type christmas lights are
like you say, and every single light must work or none will work, but
since around 1989 they changed the way they made christmas lights and
these days it doesn't matter if you have a blown bulb or more - the
lights will still operate. But hey, if you want to pick on some
obscure set of lights that you bought back some 3 decades or so from a
garage sale in Dubbo, then so be it. I most certainly won't lose
sleep over it because I know that you were ONLY using the christmas
light scenario to try to "prove" that you couldn't put two (2) 120v
bulbs in series on a 240v circuit - and you were wrong. Diverting the
facts doesn't make the facts any more wrongly.

I was only observing that Christmas tree lights are not a
counter-example to my belief that putting two incandescent lights in
series is not a good idea.

Saying that Christmas tree lights are wired in series was never going to
be able to prove that two incandescent lights can't be wired in series.
That much should have been obvious even to you.

Sylvia.

 

[^Tems^]

Luke O'Zade wrote:

"^Tems^"<stevebrooks13@live.com> wrote in message
news:6ssulhF8252qU1@mid.individual.net...



Very easily ..........Open the door lamp cold lamp out. Lamp warm, lamp
has
been on!


In the early hours of the morning after a night on the piss bloke crawls
back into bed next to his wife and says "when did we get the automatic
light in the toilet" and she replied "you pissed in the fridge you
dickhead"

How did you go about flushing the bugger?

If it's yellow let it mellow

 

[swanny]

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 11, 4:40 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 11, 4:16 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 11, 3:21 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:
Note the definition
"incandescent lamp means an incandescent lamp for general lighting
services..."
So does that include the incandescent lamp in the fridge and/or oven?
Are they for general lighting services?
They are for general lighting of the inside of the fridge and oven,
yes.
I doubt that's the intent of the expression "general lighting services".
It is clear that a lamp creates light, and that the purpose of it is to
cast that light over some area. If all such lamps were deemed to be for
general lighting services then the phrase would be redundant, and would
not have been included in the legislation.
Sylvia.
Then it isn't a clear definition by any means. What about a light
inside a pantry or even a walk-in robe? How are those lamps any
different from a lamp used in the fridge? How is a pantry light
different to a fridge light?
That's not the relevant test. You need to look at how a particular model
of incandescent lamp is most often going to be used. If it's for general
lighting service, and otherwise fits the definition, then it's banned.
The fact that you can find uses for the lamp that are not general
lighting service uses doesn't save the lamp from its fate.

So the question of distinguishing a pantry light from a fridge light
doesn't arise.

Sylvia.

So is it perfectly legal to change over all my current general
lighting incandescent light globes with incandescent light globes from
my oven or fridge? I just checked and fridge lamp screws into my desk
lamp and lights properly. I'm not too sure about the oven lamp as
it's a little more difficult to access.

The legislation removes the common bulbs from sale, it does not make their use
'illegal'. You can stockpile the old lamps and continue to use them if you wish,
there are no 'lighting police' who will raid you home looking for unlawful use
of an incandescent bulb. The intent of the legislation is to phase out the old
bulbs that can be replaced with energy-efficient equivalents.

 

[Mr.T]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:4969d39d$0$25649$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Or far more cheaply, wire two in series.

I'm far from sure that will work properly. When an incandescent lamp is
turned on, its resistance rises as it heats up, over a period of a
fraction of a second. Put two in series, and a slight difference between
the initial resistances will cause one to heat up faster than the other.
The one that heats faster also sees its resistance rise faster, which in
turn means that its rate of heating relative to the other rises further
still.
It's easy to see that the end result of this is that one burns out
before the other can heat up enough to take its share of the load.

Whilst you are correct, and the life expectancy will be reduced to some
degree, in practice it will probably still work out cheaper than buying
240v:120v transformers for every lamp, unless the cost of the globes is much
more than current ones.
(Remember the current flow is the same for both lamps in series, so they
should both stabilise at roughly their expected operating temperatures.
Given normal mass production techniques, the filament resistance and
temperature characteristics will not vary much for similar globes. Probably
NOT a good idea to use dissimilar globes however

However both those ideas are really sub-optimal IMO. And hopefully since
most countries are getting on the band wagon, there will now be an impetus
to improve alternative lamps, and increased production levels will hopefully
reduce their costs even further.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:4969d8ea$0$26491$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

TG'sFM wrote:
Christmas Tree lights are NOT wired in series. If they were, once
just ONE bulb blew out, the whole lot wouldn't work. Please think
BEFORE you post, in futurer.

Her or YOU?

Seems to me that I have had to go round a set of Christmas Tree lights
to find out which one isn't screwed in properly, thus extinguishing the
entire set.

Yep, very common in the old days. Unfortunately it also means when one globe
blows, there is 240V across it's socket, and they were often not well
protected. But then standard BC or Edison screw lamps aren't either, but at
least are a bit more difficult to reach in most cases.

MrT.

 

[TG'sFM]

On Jan 11, 9:08 pm, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message

news:496975e8$0$18714$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Indeed, given the requirement that the lamp voltage be >= 220V, one
could even lawfully import US 110V incandescent lamps, and run them
through a transformer.

Or far more cheaply, wire two in series.

MrT.

Gee, I wonder why NOBODY in this newsgroup had never thought about
that before?

 

[TG'sFM]

On Jan 11, 10:10 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:

Mr.T wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496975e8$0$18714$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Indeed, given the requirement that the lamp voltage be >= 220V, one
could even lawfully import US 110V incandescent lamps, and run them
through a transformer.

Or far more cheaply, wire two in series.

MrT.

I'm far from sure that will work properly. When an incandescent lamp is
turned on, its resistance rises as it heats up, over a period of a
fraction of a second. Put two in series, and a slight difference between
the initial resistances will cause one to heat up faster than the other.
The one that heats faster also sees its resistance rise faster, which in
turn means that its rate of heating relative to the other rises further
still.

It's easy to see that the end result of this is that one burns out
before the other can heat up enough to take its share of the load.

Christmas Tree lights are usually wired in series, but the fact that
there's a large number of them reduces this effect.

Sylvia.

Christmas Tree lights are NOT wired in series. If they were, once
just ONE bulb blew out, the whole lot wouldn't work. Please think
BEFORE you post, in futurer.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Mr.T wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:4969d39d$0$25649$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Or far more cheaply, wire two in series.
I'm far from sure that will work properly. When an incandescent lamp is
turned on, its resistance rises as it heats up, over a period of a
fraction of a second. Put two in series, and a slight difference between
the initial resistances will cause one to heat up faster than the other.
The one that heats faster also sees its resistance rise faster, which in
turn means that its rate of heating relative to the other rises further
still.
It's easy to see that the end result of this is that one burns out
before the other can heat up enough to take its share of the load.

Whilst you are correct, and the life expectancy will be reduced to some
degree,

I didn't mean that the life expectancy would be reduced, but that
there's at least a good chance that one lamp will blow the first time
you turn the pair on.

(Remember the current flow is the same for both lamps in series, so they
should both stabilise at roughly their expected operating temperatures.

Yes - if they manage to reach it before one fails. My concern relates to
imbalances during the turn on period.

Given normal mass production techniques, the filament resistance and
temperature characteristics will not vary much for similar globes. Probably
NOT a good idea to use dissimilar globes however

I agree that they would be close for similar globes. But are they close
enough to avoid unbalanced heating where the difference in the rate of
heating is itself a rising function of temperature difference.

However both those ideas are really sub-optimal IMO. And hopefully since
most countries are getting on the band wagon, there will now be an impetus
to improve alternative lamps, and increased production levels will hopefully
reduce their costs even further.

As something of an aside, some may be interested in the explanatory
statement for the regulation amendment, which runs to 165 pages.

http://tinyurl.com/8q9um9

<http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/A6EA10AE02CEC6D0CA257522007CA0D0/$file/F2008L04627.pdf>

Sylvia.

 

[TG'sFM]

On Jan 11, 10:32 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:10 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
Mr.T wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496975e8$0$18714$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Indeed, given the requirement that the lamp voltage be >= 220V, one
could even lawfully import US 110V incandescent lamps, and run them
through a transformer.
Or far more cheaply, wire two in series.
MrT.
I'm far from sure that will work properly. When an incandescent lamp is
turned on, its resistance rises as it heats up, over a period of a
fraction of a second. Put two in series, and a slight difference between
the initial resistances will cause one to heat up faster than the other.
The one that heats faster also sees its resistance rise faster, which in
turn means that its rate of heating relative to the other rises further
still.

It's easy to see that the end result of this is that one burns out
before the other can heat up enough to take its share of the load.

Christmas Tree lights are usually wired in series, but the fact that
there's a large number of them reduces this effect.

Sylvia.

Christmas Tree lights are NOT wired in series.  If they were, once
just ONE bulb blew out, the whole lot wouldn't work.  Please think
BEFORE you post, in futurer.

Seems to me that I have had to go round a set of Christmas Tree lights
to find out which one isn't screwed in properly, thus extinguishing the
entire set.

As soon as I pressed the send key I knew you'd backpedal with this
type of response. Yes Sylvia, SOME older type christmas lights are
like you say, and every single light must work or none will work, but
since around 1989 they changed the way they made christmas lights and
these days it doesn't matter if you have a blown bulb or more - the
lights will still operate. But hey, if you want to pick on some
obscure set of lights that you bought back some 3 decades or so from a
garage sale in Dubbo, then so be it. I most certainly won't lose
sleep over it because I know that you were ONLY using the christmas
light scenario to try to "prove" that you couldn't put two (2) 120v
bulbs in series on a 240v circuit - and you were wrong. Diverting the
facts doesn't make the facts any more wrongly.

 

[Sylvia Else]

^Tems^ wrote:

Luke O'Zade wrote:
"^Tems^"<stevebrooks13@live.com> wrote in message
news:6ssulhF8252qU1@mid.individual.net...



Very easily ..........Open the door lamp cold lamp out. Lamp warm, lamp
has
been on!


In the early hours of the morning after a night on the piss bloke crawls
back into bed next to his wife and says "when did we get the automatic
light in the toilet" and she replied "you pissed in the fridge you
dickhead"

How did you go about flushing the bugger?



If it's yellow let it mellow

Hey, guys, this is aus.tv (in part). There may be children present.
Let's limited the grossness, huh?

Sylvia.

 

[F Murtz]

Sylvia Else wrote:

blofelds_cat wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 11, 1:47 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 11, 7:38 am, swanny
blahgswan3b...@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 10, 7:12 pm, swanny
blahgswan3b...@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 6:38 pm, swanny
blahgswan3b...@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 2:31 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 9:39 am, blofelds_cat <blofelds_cat@_SPECTRE.com
wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 8:13 am, ˘ž Horry ˘ž <horacewach...@gmail.com
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:55:02 +0100, Anonymous wrote:

"Luke O'Zade" <No_one@home> wrote in message
news:496574ce$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

We are being conned rotten by these green
bastards.............Sorry it's OT
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1107290/Revolt-Robbed-right-


buy-traditional-light-bulbs-millions-clearing-shelves-supplies.html


You're right !
This is an off topic post.
Conventional light bulbs are not efficient at producing
light,
they are miniture heaters.

When compact fluorescent light bulbs become
conventional, will we
call them conventional bulbs?

They won't become conventional. The whole process will
be a dud.
Imagine traffic lights that neec 20 seconds to warm up?

New traffic lights use LEDs.

And old ones don't.

Yes, old ones use incandescents that blow regularly. I know
because I've called
VicRoads 12 times in about the last six months to report
blown globes in just a
4km x 1km square of Melbourne.

Presumably every single incandescent traffic signal including
train
level crossings will have to be converted to LED's before
November
this year. I doubt that the legislators have thought this
whole thing
through because it would be logistically impossible to
replace EVERY
single incandescent lamp before then. I have a new LG fridge
and
oven, and BOTH have incandescent bulbs. I asked the sales
person when
LED's or even flouro's would be available and he said there
is no part
number in his order book. Does that mean I have to switch my
less
than one year old fridge and oven off until such time as LG
builds and
supplies the new bulbs? How will I keep my beer cold after
November?
How will I heat my party pies? Will I be forced to starve
to death?

You are assuming that ALL incandescent light are being
affected by this ban.
I think you will find that this is not the case.
Specialist lamps for certain applications will still be
available.
Domestic lamps will not.

So my only choice is to sell my domestic fridge and oven and buy a
commercial one?

Fridge lamps, Oven lamps, low-wattage night lamps, PAR-38 and
other spotlights
are still widely available.

Yes, but under the current proposed legislation, they will ALL be
banned from November 2009.

No they won't.

Well argued sir. Care to cite a reference which says such globes will
be exempt from the legislation?

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/cth/num_reg/ciar2...


Note the definition

"incandescent lamp means an incandescent lamp for general lighting
services..."


So does that include the incandescent lamp in the fridge and/or oven?


One might safely assume that unless the energy saving equivalent
becomes available, and the existing versions no longer are, one could
continue to use the present variety, and they would continue to be
sold. As well one might also assume that because of their low wattage,
unique application and therefore limited usage, no production of
energy saving equivalents is envisaged, at least in the immediate
future. But possibly at some point in time no incandescent lamps will
be produced or available.


That isn't really the point though. The issue appeared to be whether the
ban captures them, regardless of how disruptive that might be. However,
I do not believe they are caught by the ban because IMHO they are not
for general lighting services.

Indeed, given the requirement that the lamp voltage be >= 220V, one
could even lawfully import US 110V incandescent lamps, and run them
through a transformer.

Sylvia.
Also could probably get away with a diode in series with 110v lamp on 240v

 

[Sylvia Else]

F Murtz wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
blofelds_cat wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 11, 1:47 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 11, 7:38 am, swanny
blahgswan3b...@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 10, 7:12 pm, swanny
blahgswan3b...@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 6:38 pm, swanny
blahgswan3b...@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 2:31 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 9:39 am, blofelds_cat
blofelds_cat@_SPECTRE.com> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 8:13 am, ˘ž Horry ˘ž <horacewach...@gmail.com
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:55:02 +0100, Anonymous wrote:

"Luke O'Zade" <No_one@home> wrote in message
news:496574ce$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

We are being conned rotten by these green
bastards.............Sorry it's OT
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1107290/Revolt-Robbed-right-


buy-traditional-light-bulbs-millions-clearing-shelves-supplies.html


You're right !
This is an off topic post.
Conventional light bulbs are not efficient at
producing light,
they are miniture heaters.

When compact fluorescent light bulbs become
conventional, will we
call them conventional bulbs?

They won't become conventional. The whole process will
be a dud.
Imagine traffic lights that neec 20 seconds to warm up?

New traffic lights use LEDs.

And old ones don't.

Yes, old ones use incandescents that blow regularly. I know
because I've called
VicRoads 12 times in about the last six months to report
blown globes in just a
4km x 1km square of Melbourne.

Presumably every single incandescent traffic signal
including train
level crossings will have to be converted to LED's before
November
this year. I doubt that the legislators have thought this
whole thing
through because it would be logistically impossible to
replace EVERY
single incandescent lamp before then. I have a new LG
fridge and
oven, and BOTH have incandescent bulbs. I asked the sales
person when
LED's or even flouro's would be available and he said there
is no part
number in his order book. Does that mean I have to switch
my less
than one year old fridge and oven off until such time as LG
builds and
supplies the new bulbs? How will I keep my beer cold after
November?
How will I heat my party pies? Will I be forced to starve
to death?

You are assuming that ALL incandescent light are being
affected by this ban.
I think you will find that this is not the case.
Specialist lamps for certain applications will still be
available.
Domestic lamps will not.

So my only choice is to sell my domestic fridge and oven and
buy a
commercial one?

Fridge lamps, Oven lamps, low-wattage night lamps, PAR-38 and
other spotlights
are still widely available.

Yes, but under the current proposed legislation, they will ALL be
banned from November 2009.

No they won't.

Well argued sir. Care to cite a reference which says such globes
will
be exempt from the legislation?

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/cth/num_reg/ciar2...


Note the definition

"incandescent lamp means an incandescent lamp for general lighting
services..."


So does that include the incandescent lamp in the fridge and/or oven?


One might safely assume that unless the energy saving equivalent
becomes available, and the existing versions no longer are, one could
continue to use the present variety, and they would continue to be
sold. As well one might also assume that because of their low
wattage, unique application and therefore limited usage, no
production of energy saving equivalents is envisaged, at least in the
immediate future. But possibly at some point in time no incandescent
lamps will be produced or available.


That isn't really the point though. The issue appeared to be whether
the ban captures them, regardless of how disruptive that might be.
However, I do not believe they are caught by the ban because IMHO they
are not for general lighting services.

Indeed, given the requirement that the lamp voltage be >= 220V, one
could even lawfully import US 110V incandescent lamps, and run them
through a transformer.

Sylvia.
Also could probably get away with a diode in series with 110v lamp on 240v

A 110 volt 100 Watt Zener?

Sylvia.

 

[F Murtz]

Sylvia Else wrote:

F Murtz wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
blofelds_cat wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 11, 1:47 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 11, 7:38 am, swanny
blahgswan3b...@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 10, 7:12 pm, swanny
blahgswan3b...@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 6:38 pm, swanny
blahgswan3b...@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 2:31 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 9:39 am, blofelds_cat
blofelds_cat@_SPECTRE.com> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 9, 8:13 am, ˘ž Horry ˘ž
horacewach...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:55:02 +0100, Anonymous wrote:

"Luke O'Zade" <No_one@home> wrote in message
news:496574ce$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

We are being conned rotten by these green
bastards.............Sorry it's OT
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1107290/Revolt-Robbed-right-


buy-traditional-light-bulbs-millions-clearing-shelves-supplies.html


You're right !
This is an off topic post.
Conventional light bulbs are not efficient at
producing light,
they are miniture heaters.

When compact fluorescent light bulbs become
conventional, will we
call them conventional bulbs?

They won't become conventional. The whole process will
be a dud.
Imagine traffic lights that neec 20 seconds to warm up?

New traffic lights use LEDs.

And old ones don't.

Yes, old ones use incandescents that blow regularly. I
know because I've called
VicRoads 12 times in about the last six months to report
blown globes in just a
4km x 1km square of Melbourne.

Presumably every single incandescent traffic signal
including train
level crossings will have to be converted to LED's before
November
this year. I doubt that the legislators have thought this
whole thing
through because it would be logistically impossible to
replace EVERY
single incandescent lamp before then. I have a new LG
fridge and
oven, and BOTH have incandescent bulbs. I asked the sales
person when
LED's or even flouro's would be available and he said there
is no part
number in his order book. Does that mean I have to switch
my less
than one year old fridge and oven off until such time as LG
builds and
supplies the new bulbs? How will I keep my beer cold after
November?
How will I heat my party pies? Will I be forced to starve
to death?

You are assuming that ALL incandescent light are being
affected by this ban.
I think you will find that this is not the case.
Specialist lamps for certain applications will still be
available.
Domestic lamps will not.

So my only choice is to sell my domestic fridge and oven and
buy a
commercial one?

Fridge lamps, Oven lamps, low-wattage night lamps, PAR-38 and
other spotlights
are still widely available.

Yes, but under the current proposed legislation, they will ALL be
banned from November 2009.

No they won't.

Well argued sir. Care to cite a reference which says such globes
will
be exempt from the legislation?

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/cth/num_reg/ciar2...


Note the definition

"incandescent lamp means an incandescent lamp for general lighting
services..."


So does that include the incandescent lamp in the fridge and/or oven?


One might safely assume that unless the energy saving equivalent
becomes available, and the existing versions no longer are, one
could continue to use the present variety, and they would continue
to be sold. As well one might also assume that because of their low
wattage, unique application and therefore limited usage, no
production of energy saving equivalents is envisaged, at least in
the immediate future. But possibly at some point in time no
incandescent lamps will be produced or available.


That isn't really the point though. The issue appeared to be whether
the ban captures them, regardless of how disruptive that might be.
However, I do not believe they are caught by the ban because IMHO
they are not for general lighting services.

Indeed, given the requirement that the lamp voltage be >= 220V, one
could even lawfully import US 110V incandescent lamps, and run them
through a transformer.

Sylvia.
Also could probably get away with a diode in series with 110v lamp on
240v

A 110 volt 100 Watt Zener?

Sylvia.
No just a diode with sufficient current and voltage specs.

It gives half wave rectification ie un smoothed dc.
Ie only on half the time.
I used to use diodes to dim lamps

 

[fritz]

For fuck's sake there are some fools in this NG...and TG'sFM <suvvdj@yahoo.fr> is a prime example...

LED tail lights and brake lights will much react faster than glow-wire lights.








TG'sFM <suvvdj@yahoo.fr> wrote in message news:aaa14d0c-8cba-4bf1-b6c5-432cd5ae4970@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 8, 11:38 pm, blofelds_cat <blofelds_cat@_SPECTRE.com> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 8, 3:55 pm, Anonymous <cri...@ecn.org> wrote:

"Luke O'Zade" <No_one@home> wrote in messagenews:496574ce$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

We are being conned rotten by these green bastards.............Sorry it's OT

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1107290/Revolt-Robbed-right-b...

You're right !

This is an off topic post.

Conventional light bulbs are not efficient at producing
light, they are miniture heaters.

The CFL are designed for maximum light, with reduced
power wastage.
Sure there is mercury in them, and they dont work with
dimmers, but they save a whole lot
of money on electricity!

They might technically save money on electricity, but the unaffordable
upfront cost

We get them for free here in Melbourne.

and the fact that people will leave them on 24/7 because
they take too long to warm up

The minute or two that takes will cause you what problem exactly? the
death of a family member?

Possibly, yes. You are forgetting that ALL incandesent globes are
going to be banned from November this year. This includes the brake
light globes in your car. So instead of you instantly seeing red
brake lights when the car in front hits the brake, you will only see
it 20 seconds or so AFTER the brakes are applied. This WILL lead to
more tail ender accidents, and as you suggested, it WILL cause many
more road deaths. This isn't the trivial issue you first thought is
it?

 

[swanny]

TG'sFM wrote:

On Jan 11, 10:32 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:10 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
Mr.T wrote:
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496975e8$0$18714$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Indeed, given the requirement that the lamp voltage be >= 220V, one
could even lawfully import US 110V incandescent lamps, and run them
through a transformer.
Or far more cheaply, wire two in series.
MrT.
I'm far from sure that will work properly. When an incandescent lamp is
turned on, its resistance rises as it heats up, over a period of a
fraction of a second. Put two in series, and a slight difference between
the initial resistances will cause one to heat up faster than the other.
The one that heats faster also sees its resistance rise faster, which in
turn means that its rate of heating relative to the other rises further
still.
It's easy to see that the end result of this is that one burns out
before the other can heat up enough to take its share of the load.
Christmas Tree lights are usually wired in series, but the fact that
there's a large number of them reduces this effect.
Sylvia.
Christmas Tree lights are NOT wired in series. If they were, once
just ONE bulb blew out, the whole lot wouldn't work. Please think
BEFORE you post, in futurer.
Seems to me that I have had to go round a set of Christmas Tree lights
to find out which one isn't screwed in properly, thus extinguishing the
entire set.


As soon as I pressed the send key I knew you'd backpedal with this
type of response. Yes Sylvia, SOME older type christmas lights are
like you say, and every single light must work or none will work, but
since around 1989 they changed the way they made christmas lights and
these days it doesn't matter if you have a blown bulb or more - the
lights will still operate. But hey, if you want to pick on some
obscure set of lights that you bought back some 3 decades or so from a
garage sale in Dubbo, then so be it. I most certainly won't lose
sleep over it because I know that you were ONLY using the christmas
light scenario to try to "prove" that you couldn't put two (2) 120v
bulbs in series on a 240v circuit - and you were wrong. Diverting the
facts doesn't make the facts any more wrongly.

There are PLENTY of Christmas tree lights on the market (at the end of 2008)
which consist of one string of incandescent bulbs wired in series. There are
also many other types, ranging from LED's to short strings of series-connected
bulbs.

 

[Sylvia Else]

F Murtz wrote:

No just a diode with sufficient current and voltage specs.
It gives half wave rectification ie un smoothed dc.
Ie only on half the time.
I used to use diodes to dim lamps

A diode halves the average power, but doubling the voltage quadruples it.

Sylvia.

 

[geoff]

Sylvia Else wrote:

F Murtz wrote:

No just a diode with sufficient current and voltage specs.
It gives half wave rectification ie un smoothed dc.
Ie only on half the time.
I used to use diodes to dim lamps

A diode halves the average power, but doubling the voltage quadruples
it.
Sylvia.

I installed a dimmer in my bedroom when I built my house years ago. The only
time I ever attempted to 'use it' the whole idea seemed tacky .

I wonder hopw many dimmers actually are ever set on anything other than max
.......?


geoff

 

[F Murtz]

Sylvia Else wrote:

F Murtz wrote:

No just a diode with sufficient current and voltage specs.
It gives half wave rectification ie un smoothed dc.
Ie only on half the time.
I used to use diodes to dim lamps

A diode halves the average power, but doubling the voltage quadruples it.

Sylvia.
I have used a diode on a 110v American heating element on 240v ac with a

diode and it uses about the same current as it did on 110v