OT It's all a Bloody con.........

[Sylvia Else]

geoff wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

No just a diode with sufficient current and voltage specs.
It gives half wave rectification ie un smoothed dc.
Ie only on half the time.
I used to use diodes to dim lamps
A diode halves the average power, but doubling the voltage quadruples
it.
Sylvia.

I installed a dimmer in my bedroom when I built my house years ago. The only
time I ever attempted to 'use it' the whole idea seemed tacky .

I wonder hopw many dimmers actually are ever set on anything other than max
......?

Indeed.

There are a number in my house (already here when we moved in). The only
one that ever gets set is the one in the living room, that is
*sometimes* turned down when we're watching television.

Dimmers were very much a solution looking for a problem.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

F Murtz wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

No just a diode with sufficient current and voltage specs.
It gives half wave rectification ie un smoothed dc.
Ie only on half the time.
I used to use diodes to dim lamps

A diode halves the average power, but doubling the voltage quadruples it.

Sylvia.
I have used a diode on a 110v American heating element on 240v ac with a
diode and it uses about the same current as it did on 110v

Yes, it would draw about the same average current - but with twice the
voltage, and other things being equal, the net result is double the power.

Sylvia.

 

[F Murtz]

Sylvia Else wrote:

F Murtz wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

No just a diode with sufficient current and voltage specs.
It gives half wave rectification ie un smoothed dc.
Ie only on half the time.
I used to use diodes to dim lamps

A diode halves the average power, but doubling the voltage quadruples
it.

Sylvia.
I have used a diode on a 110v American heating element on 240v ac with
a diode and it uses about the same current as it did on 110v

Yes, it would draw about the same average current - but with twice the
voltage, and other things being equal, the net result is double the power.

Sylvia.
I was only debating that it could be done not what it costs

 

[Sylvia Else]

F Murtz wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
F Murtz wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

No just a diode with sufficient current and voltage specs.
It gives half wave rectification ie un smoothed dc.
Ie only on half the time.
I used to use diodes to dim lamps

A diode halves the average power, but doubling the voltage
quadruples it.

Sylvia.
I have used a diode on a 110v American heating element on 240v ac
with a diode and it uses about the same current as it did on 110v

Yes, it would draw about the same average current - but with twice the
voltage, and other things being equal, the net result is double the
power.

Sylvia.
I was only debating that it could be done not what it costs

I wasn't concerned about the cost. If you double the power in a device
not designed to take it, you can expect the device to fail.

Sylvia.

 

[Mr.T]

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4969fbb6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

No just a diode with sufficient current and voltage specs.
It gives half wave rectification ie un smoothed dc.
Ie only on half the time.
I used to use diodes to dim lamps

Works but causes a noticeable flicker unfortunately.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496a9577$0$12942$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

I wonder hopw many dimmers actually are ever set on anything other than
max
Indeed.

There are a number in my house (already here when we moved in). The only
one that ever gets set is the one in the living room, that is
*sometimes* turned down when we're watching television.
Dimmers were very much a solution looking for a problem.

Others don't necessarily share your lack of enthusiasm. My dimmer is always
down when watching TV. However simply putting in a separate lower wattage
lamp on another switch, or using a table lamp like many other people do,
could achieve much the same result, so it's by no means necessary.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496a9615$0$12942$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

I have used a diode on a 110v American heating element on 240v ac with a
diode and it uses about the same current as it did on 110v

Yes, it would draw about the same average current - but with twice the
voltage, and other things being equal, the net result is double the power.

It would only be twice the voltage for half the time however. Average
voltage would be the same.

MrT.

 

[David L. Jones]

On Jan 9, 12:16 am, "TG'sFM" <suv...@yahoo.fr> wrote:

On Jan 8, 11:38 pm, blofelds_cat <blofelds_cat@_SPECTRE.com> wrote:



TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 8, 3:55 pm, Anonymous <cri...@ecn.org> wrote:

"Luke O'Zade" <No_one@home> wrote in messagenews:496574ce$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

We are being conned rotten by these green bastards.............Sorry it's OT

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1107290/Revolt-Robbed-right-b...

You're right !

This is an off topic post.

Conventional light bulbs are not efficient at producing
light, they are miniture heaters.

The CFL are designed for maximum light, with reduced
power wastage.
Sure there is mercury in them, and they dont work with
dimmers, but they save a whole lot
of money on electricity!

They might technically save money on electricity, but the unaffordable
upfront cost

We get them for free here in Melbourne.

and the fact that people will leave them on 24/7 because
they take too long to warm up

The minute or two that takes will cause you what problem exactly? the
death of a family member?

Possibly, yes. You are forgetting that ALL incandesent globes are
going to be banned from November this year. This includes the brake
light globes in your car.

So instead of you instantly seeing red
brake lights when the car in front hits the brake, you will only see
it 20 seconds or so AFTER the brakes are applied.

What on earth are you talking about?
20 seconds???

This WILL lead to
more tail ender accidents, and as you suggested, it WILL cause many
more road deaths. This isn't the trivial issue you first thought is
it?

Incandescent tail lights are being replaced by LED's. LED's are MUCH
faster than the incandescents they replace, and more reliable.
Cars have had center LED brake lights for more than a decade now,
haven't you noticed?

Dave.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Mr.T wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496a9615$0$12942$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
I have used a diode on a 110v American heating element on 240v ac with a
diode and it uses about the same current as it did on 110v
Yes, it would draw about the same average current - but with twice the
voltage, and other things being equal, the net result is double the power.

It would only be twice the voltage for half the time however. Average
voltage would be the same.

MrT.

That's double counting the effect of the diode.

It's clear that the diode halves the power dissipated for a given
voltage. But consider the power dissipated in a 110V 100W bulb if it is
run on 220V without a diode. The current is twice what it would be for
110V, and the voltage is also double, so the power is quadruple.

Now add the diode in, and it halves the power - leaving it merely doubled.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Mr.T wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496a9577$0$12942$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
I wonder hopw many dimmers actually are ever set on anything other than
max
Indeed.

There are a number in my house (already here when we moved in). The only
one that ever gets set is the one in the living room, that is
*sometimes* turned down when we're watching television.
Dimmers were very much a solution looking for a problem.

Others don't necessarily share your lack of enthusiasm. My dimmer is always
down when watching TV.

What about any other dimmers? We have them in a bedroom and in the
dining area. They never get used.

Sylvia.

 

[John G.]

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ef4e96f-698b-4d9e-9e2b-887c91df1651@g39g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

On Jan 9, 12:16 am, "TG'sFM" <suv...@yahoo.fr> wrote:


So instead of you instantly seeing red
brake lights when the car in front hits the brake, you will only see
it 20 seconds or so AFTER the brakes are applied.

What on earth are you talking about?
20 seconds???

This WILL lead to
more tail ender accidents, and as you suggested, it WILL cause many
more road deaths. This isn't the trivial issue you first thought is
it?

Incandescent tail lights are being replaced by LED's. LED's are MUCH
faster than the incandescents they replace, and more reliable.
Cars have had center LED brake lights for more than a decade now,
haven't you noticed?

Dave.

There is no effect on 12volt (in fact less than 220volt) bulbs until at
least 2015 by which time most if not all automotive lamps will be LED or
something better.

John G.

 

[Sylvia Else]

TG'sFM wrote:

By then cars may be computer controlled so we'll have no need for
lights on our cars.

Will pedestrians be computer controlled as well?

Sylvia.

 

[TG'sFM]

On Jan 12, 12:38 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 9, 12:16 am, "TG'sFM" <suv...@yahoo.fr> wrote:



On Jan 8, 11:38 pm, blofelds_cat <blofelds_cat@_SPECTRE.com> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:
On Jan 8, 3:55 pm, Anonymous <cri...@ecn.org> wrote:

"Luke O'Zade" <No_one@home> wrote in messagenews:496574ce$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

We are being conned rotten by these green bastards.............Sorry it's OT

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1107290/Revolt-Robbed-right-b...

You're right !

This is an off topic post.

Conventional light bulbs are not efficient at producing
light, they are miniture heaters.

The CFL are designed for maximum light, with reduced
power wastage.
Sure there is mercury in them, and they dont work with
dimmers, but they save a whole lot
of money on electricity!

They might technically save money on electricity, but the unaffordable
upfront cost

We get them for free here in Melbourne.

 and the fact that people will leave them on 24/7 because
they take too long to warm up

The minute or two that takes will cause you what problem exactly? the
death of a family member?

Possibly, yes.  You are forgetting that ALL incandesent globes are
going to be banned from November this year.  This includes the brake
light globes in your car.
So instead of you instantly seeing red
brake lights when the car in front hits the brake, you will only see
it 20 seconds or so AFTER the brakes are applied.

What on earth are you talking about?
20 seconds???

This WILL lead to
more tail ender accidents, and as you suggested, it WILL cause many
more road deaths.  This isn't the trivial issue you first thought is
it?

Incandescent tail lights are being replaced by LED's. LED's are MUCH
faster than the incandescents they replace, and more reliable.
Cars have had center LED brake lights for more than a decade now,
haven't you noticed?

No Dave, I haven't noticed. I've had the same car for over 20 years,
and ALL the lights are the incandescent - the same as they were when I
bought it. I think I would have noticed if someone put in a centre
LED light a decade ago. I'm not that stupid that I wouldn't have
noticed.

 

[TG'sFM]

On Jan 12, 8:58 am, "fritz" <fr...@address.com> wrote:

For fuck's sake there are some fools in this NG...and TG'sFM <suv...@yahoo.fr> is a prime example...

FFS, can't you tell sarcasm when you read it? And besides, you're a
top post, so you're in no position to label others as fools. While on
the topic of top posting, if you can't control how you post, what
OTHER bodily functions can't you control? I hope you don't live near
a primary school or day care centre.

 

[TG'sFM]

On Jan 12, 2:13 pm, "John G." <greent...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

"David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:3ef4e96f-698b-4d9e-9e2b-887c91df1651@g39g2000pri.googlegroups.com...



On Jan 9, 12:16 am, "TG'sFM" <suv...@yahoo.fr> wrote:

So instead of you instantly seeing red
brake lights when the car in front hits the brake, you will only see
it 20 seconds or so AFTER the brakes are applied.

What on earth are you talking about?
20 seconds???

This WILL lead to
more tail ender accidents, and as you suggested, it WILL cause many
more road deaths.  This isn't the trivial issue you first thought is
it?

Incandescent tail lights are being replaced by LED's. LED's are MUCH
faster than the incandescents they replace, and more reliable.
Cars have had center LED brake lights for more than a decade now,
haven't you noticed?

Dave.

There is no effect on 12volt  (in fact less than 220volt) bulbs until at
least 2015 by which time most if not all automotive lamps will be LED or
something better.

By then cars may be computer controlled so we'll have no need for
lights on our cars.

 

[Mr.T]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496ab268$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

I have used a diode on a 110v American heating element on 240v ac with
a
diode and it uses about the same current as it did on 110v
Yes, it would draw about the same average current - but with twice the
voltage, and other things being equal, the net result is double the
power.

It would only be twice the voltage for half the time however. Average
voltage would be the same.


That's double counting the effect of the diode.

How so? The ONLY effect is to eliminate one half cycle, (and thus halve the
P-P voltage of course)
Let's hear what you think the new Peak, Average, and RMS voltages are?

It's clear that the diode halves the power dissipated for a given
voltage.
But consider the power dissipated in a 110V 100W bulb if it is
run on 220V without a diode. The current is twice what it would be for
110V, and the voltage is also double, so the power is quadruple.

By Totally Neglecting the increase in resistance of the filament only.

Now add the diode in, and it halves the power - leaving it merely doubled.

It does no such thing. It halves the waveform duty cycle. Given the positive
temperature coefficient of the filament resistance, and the change from a
purely sinusoidal waveform, you'd probably need to measure the exact power,
but it certainly won't be anywhere near double.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496ab2da$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

There are a number in my house (already here when we moved in). The
only
one that ever gets set is the one in the living room, that is
*sometimes* turned down when we're watching television.
Dimmers were very much a solution looking for a problem.

Others don't necessarily share your lack of enthusiasm. My dimmer is
always
down when watching TV.

What about any other dimmers?

Don't have any others.

We have them in a bedroom and in the
dining area. They never get used.

I'm not really surprised.

MrT.

 

[TG'sFM]

On Jan 12, 2:49 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:

TG'sFM wrote:

By then cars may be computer controlled so we'll have no need for
lights on our cars.

Will pedestrians be computer controlled as well?

Why would there still be pedestrians? Surely robots could go out and
do whatever pedestrians do these days.

 

[atec77]

Mr.T wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496ab268$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
I have used a diode on a 110v American heating element on 240v ac with
a
diode and it uses about the same current as it did on 110v
Yes, it would draw about the same average current - but with twice the
voltage, and other things being equal, the net result is double the
power.
It would only be twice the voltage for half the time however. Average
voltage would be the same.

That's double counting the effect of the diode.

How so? The ONLY effect is to eliminate one half cycle, (and thus halve the
P-P voltage of course)
Let's hear what you think the new Peak, Average, and RMS voltages are?


It's clear that the diode halves the power dissipated for a given
voltage.
But consider the power dissipated in a 110V 100W bulb if it is
run on 220V without a diode. The current is twice what it would be for
110V, and the voltage is also double, so the power is quadruple.

By Totally Neglecting the increase in resistance of the filament only.


Now add the diode in, and it halves the power - leaving it merely doubled.

It does no such thing. It halves the waveform duty cycle. Given the positive
temperature coefficient of the filament resistance, and the change from a
purely sinusoidal waveform, you'd probably need to measure the exact power,
but it certainly won't be anywhere near double.

MrT.


About 1.4 or so isn't it ?

 

[Sylvia Else]

Mr.T wrote:

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:496ab268$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
I have used a diode on a 110v American heating element on 240v ac with
a
diode and it uses about the same current as it did on 110v
Yes, it would draw about the same average current - but with twice the
voltage, and other things being equal, the net result is double the
power.
It would only be twice the voltage for half the time however. Average
voltage would be the same.

That's double counting the effect of the diode.

How so? The ONLY effect is to eliminate one half cycle, (and thus halve the
P-P voltage of course)
Let's hear what you think the new Peak, Average, and RMS voltages are?


It's clear that the diode halves the power dissipated for a given
voltage.
But consider the power dissipated in a 110V 100W bulb if it is
run on 220V without a diode. The current is twice what it would be for
110V, and the voltage is also double, so the power is quadruple.

By Totally Neglecting the increase in resistance of the filament only.


Now add the diode in, and it halves the power - leaving it merely doubled.

It does no such thing. It halves the waveform duty cycle. Given the positive
temperature coefficient of the filament resistance, and the change from a
purely sinusoidal waveform, you'd probably need to measure the exact power,
but it certainly won't be anywhere near double.

Now you losing sight of the wood for the trees. Yes, there's an effect
on the resistance, but only because you're running the bulb above its
rating. If the filament doesn't blow, I wouldn't want to say what the
power will stabilise at, but it will be way way above the rating for the
bulb.

Sylvia.