OT GW

[JONZ]

On 5/12/2011 10:25 PM, Noddy wrote:

On 5/12/2011 9:07 PM, kreed wrote:

Or tune into SBS late at night, if its anything like it was when I
last watched a couple of years back
its a safe bet that at least one of the movies you see will feature at
least a graphic sex scene, someone throwing up, or using a toilet.

Sometimes all 3.

It does

Of course, the worst (for me at least) is that I always seem to fluke
flicking over whilst channel surfing *just* in time to see some bloke
sticking his tongue down the throat of another bloke.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but *fuck* it makes me want
to heave
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah, heave the missus outa bed and phone the
boyfriend..................

--
Two things that are essential to life are WD 40 and duct tape. If it
moves and it isn't supposed to, use the duct tape. If it doesn't move
and it's supposed to use the WD 40.

 

[John_H]

terryc wrote:

John_H wrote:
terryc wrote:
John_H wrote:
terryc wrote:

Howard didn't choose Asylum seeckers, but sold it outright. He also
created the current problem by going to war in Iran and Afghanistan.

It was Labor (Hawke) who took us to the first war with Iran,

Blink?
When have we had a war with Iran?

Operation Desert Storm (Hawke was PM at the time)....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_contribution_to_the_1991_Gulf_War

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Australian_contribution_to_the_2003_invasion_of_Iraq

and Labor
continue to support the war in Afghanistan (same as they supported the
one in Vietnam until it suited them to do otherwise).

Might be true lathough it is hard to stop everything one day, especially
when your partners know the game is up.

Are you seriously suggesting that PM Beazley
would've told the US to fuck off?
First it was Hawke, now Beazley......

It was Hawke who sent a naval force to Iraq in the First Gulf War, had
Beazley been PM instead of Howard he would've done exactly what Howard
did in the second stoush!

Labor changed the system solely for its own political purposes (they
thought there might've been a few votes in it) and ended up with a
complete stuff up, all down to their own ineptitude.
Umm, where is the astuff up? (Almost) All of Howard's Pacific Island
solution ended up here in the end for a significant cost to us.

Labor has stuffed up at every point, starting by abolishing the
Pacific solution

The PacSoln which was really about keeping a corrupt government in power?

At the very least the Pacific solution achieved its goal, the East
Timor and Malaysian solutions were about trying to keep a totally
inept government in power using exactly the same means (offshore
processing).

and finishing up with a kick in the arse from the
High Court when they tried to replace it with something far worse,
with the East Timor stuff up in the interim.

Labor or Kevin "Look at MEEEEE" Rudd?

In fact it was Gillard (after Rudd abolished processing in Nauru)....
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/gillard-unveils-east-timor-solution-20100706-zy9s.html

Howard's policy kept the gate crashers to manageable numbers,

No such thing. The numbers were a result of progress in the war. since
the war in afghanistan has been lost(no surprise there), there will be
plenty more wanting to get out in the future, coupled with the mass
exodus of Tamils from the hell of earth created for them in SriLanka.

The number of gate crashers (those who come by boat) was minuscule
compared to the total number of asylum seekers admitted to Oz under
Howard. That proportion has and will continue to increase
significantly under Labor's stuffed up policies, irrespective of the
war Labor continues to support in Afghanistan!

In case you haven't heard, the civil war in Sri Lanka ended in 2009.

--
John H

 

[JONZ]

On 5/12/2011 11:30 PM, Noddy wrote:

On 5/12/2011 5:08 PM, Jeßus wrote:

My experience wasn't so much like that, more to do with
backstabbing/politics and securing their own financial well being
often at the expense of scientific accuracy. Seen plenty of sloppy
technique as well. The bloke I worked for (who will remain nameless
for now) was regarded as the world authority in his field, he also had
quite an ego and was jealous of most any/all competitors in his field
(excepting those in his own little faction).

There's nothing stranger than folk.

I know Trevor rubs some people up the wrong way with his climate change
argument, and I think he's a little left field myself, but I don't mind
the bloke and genuinely enjoy my time arguing with him. However, one
thing about him that I really don't get is his apparent belief that
scientists are completely immune from any kind of human failings and I
think it's pretty bizarre. I know he's mentioned before that his partner
has a scientific background and that probably plays a significant part,
but I mean, shit, people are people and even the most eminent people in
their fields can be more than a little odd as you've experienced yourself.

I can recall similar incidents myself over the years, and one that
springs to mind was when I was a service manager at a car dealership
some time ago. It was in an up-market part of town and had a few clients
who were pretty well known, and one in particular I'll never forget.

He was a psychiatrist, and one of Melbourne's most eminent shrinks, but
he had this "my shit's chocolate ice-cream" air about him and looked
down his nose at everyone else. I'll never forget when I met him when he
first brought his car in for a service, as he introduced himself as
"Professor X", he *insisted* that he be called professor and whipped
open his attaché case to produce a 17 page fucking *resume* that
detailed all of his scholastic and professional achievements going back
almost 40 years

A business card? sure. The handle of "professor"? Okay, you're
important. But a fucking resume to book your car in for a service?
*Jesus*... Talk about relevance deprivation

As bizarre as that sounds (and it really was. I still have the resume as
a memento of a truly unique experience) such strange behaviour isn't
limited to white collar professionals.

Years ago I did an apprenticeship with Repco at one of their larger
machine shops. This was back in the early 80's when Repco was a
Respected company that had machine shops that were staffed by
experienced tradesmen who'd been in the job for decades.

This particular shop was in Footscray, and it was one of three large
shops (Coburg & Dandenong being the other two) in Victoria that was
totally self sufficient. BY that I mean it was equipped with the
necessary machinery & staff to do anything from rebuilding small
stationary engines to grinding the valves on the Able Tasman (which we
did amongst other strange & wonderful things, but that's another story).

Anyway, a situation that always existed in this particular shop was that
there were always more machines than permanent staff capable of
operating them, and the reason for that was that at any given time not
every piece of machinery needed to be in operation. We had guys who
stuck to permanent roles like reconditioning cylinder heads, grinding
cranks or assembling engines, but then there'd be a few others who had
multi roles like pin fitting & boring & honing, and when they weren't
doing those jobs they'd be on the line bore machine or any odd general
engineering tasks.

Another policy that management had in place was that they always wanted
at least two guys who were capable of operating every machine in the
place, as it got them out of trouble if there was someone off sick or on
leave. I was one of those along with another guy, but he left the
company after a while to start his own business and they needed a second.

So they offered the role to this young bloke who was not long out of his
time, and to make it somewhat appealing they "promoted" him to a
position of leading hand.

He was a very meticulous and diligent worker who normally was very
courteous and friendly, and to everyone else in the shop this promoting
simply meant nothing other than "If Jack's off on leave next week you're
driving the boring bar until he gets back". But this kid took it to mean
he was now wearing a Sheriff's badge, and his attitude went from the
sublime to the totally fucking ridiculous.

Within the space of a few days he went from being someone who was
genuinely interested in his work and just got on with the job to being
interested in nothing other than strutting around telling people (who
really didn't need to be told) what to do and how to do it. Virtually
overnight he suddenly thought he knew more about the job than everyone
else in the shop combined, and that everyone else in the place was a
fucking idiot and only he knew how to run the shop properly.

Of course this kind of shit wasn't going to fly for long, and by the end
of the second week everyone in the place had had a gutful. He was
dragged over the coals and told to pull his head in, and reminded of the
fact that while he was good at his job he was still fresh out of his
time and had absolutely no business telling blokes who were doing it
while he was still a glint in his old man's eye how they should do theirs.

But sadly it fell on deaf ears. He got so caught up in his own
importance he told management that they didn't have a clue and was
eventually dismissed which was sad, as he was a good tradie when he
wanted to be and by that stage the job was already becoming a dying art
that saw fewer & fewer people willing to learn with each new year.

I guess that story probably wasn't worth the read, but it was just a
memory of how strange some people can be at times.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, where did you go after they woke up to you?..

driving a courier van for a

living.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

yes, That would be your speed......

--
Two things that are essential to life are WD 40 and duct tape. If it
moves and it isn't supposed to, use the duct tape. If it doesn't move
and it's supposed to use the WD 40.

 

[atec77]

On 6/12/2011 2:45 PM, terryc wrote:

atec77 wrote:

Now that climate-gate is openly being examined it's patently obvious
tweva is a fuckwitt , next time I get down Melbourne and time permits
I intend explaining in person exactly why he is

You would be around 870Kms too far away for that purpose.


just shows how little tweva matters , sydney then as I hear his silly

little shop is hidden in some backwater at the wrong side of town for me
so the visiting might be to much trouble , either way the bloke is still
a fuckwitt

--









X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[kreed]

On Dec 6, 3:05 pm, Noddy <m...@home.com> wrote:

On 6/12/2011 10:15 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Prove it. Cite your hard evidence to support your claim.

The "climategate" affair certainly casts a heavy shadow over the
operations of the IPCC, as well as other criticisms.

**Ther IPCC reports are only dismissed by these people:

* Liars.
* Those who have failed to read the reports.
* Those who have an agenda which does not include AGW theory.

Given that you cannot possibly know what goes on in the minds of anyone
else *but* yourself, such comments make you look terribly "emotional".

**Science is science. If you don't read, nor try to understand the
science, then you can't critcise it.

Crap.

Correct me if I'm wrong Trev, but the "science", such as it is, consists
of little than the correlation of data, and some *theories* as to what
causes them to be.

That might be science to you, but to me it's just guessing and it will
remain so until it can be conclusively proved.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

To Trevor - its probably the case that someone in a lab coat talking
about washing powder,
(maybe naming a few ingredients that have big science sounding names)
on a TV commercial is "science"

 

[kreed]

On Dec 5, 10:30 pm, Noddy <m...@home.com> wrote:

On 5/12/2011 5:08 PM, Jeßus wrote:

My experience wasn't so much like that, more to do with
backstabbing/politics and securing their own financial well being
often at the expense of scientific accuracy. Seen plenty of sloppy
technique as well. The bloke I worked for (who will remain nameless
for now) was regarded as the world authority in his field, he also had
quite an ego and was jealous of most any/all competitors in his field
(excepting those in his own little faction).

There's nothing stranger than folk.

I know Trevor rubs some people up the wrong way with his climate change
argument, and I think he's a little left field myself, but I don't mind
the bloke and genuinely enjoy my time arguing with him. However, one
thing about him that I really don't get is his apparent belief that
scientists are completely immune from any kind of human failings and I
think it's pretty bizarre. I know he's mentioned before that his partner
has a scientific background and that probably plays a significant part,
but I mean, shit, people are people and even the most eminent people in
their fields can be more than a little odd as you've experienced yourself..

I can recall similar incidents myself over the years, and one that
springs to mind was when I was a service manager at a car dealership
some time ago. It was in an up-market part of town and had a few clients
who were pretty well known, and one in particular I'll never forget.

He was a psychiatrist, and one of Melbourne's most eminent shrinks, but
he had this "my shit's chocolate ice-cream" air about him and looked
down his nose at everyone else. I'll never forget when I met him when he
first brought his car in for a service, as he introduced himself as
"Professor X", he *insisted* that he be called professor and whipped
open his attaché case to produce a 17 page fucking *resume* that
detailed all of his scholastic and professional achievements going back
almost 40 years

A business card? sure. The handle of "professor"? Okay, you're
important. But a fucking resume to book your car in for a service?
*Jesus*... Talk about relevance deprivation

As bizarre as that sounds (and it really was. I still have the resume as
a memento of a truly unique experience) such strange behaviour isn't
limited to white collar professionals.

Years ago I did an apprenticeship with Repco at one of their larger
machine shops. This was back in the early 80's when Repco was a
Respected company that had machine shops that were staffed by
experienced tradesmen who'd been in the job for decades.

This particular shop was in Footscray, and it was one of three large
shops (Coburg & Dandenong being the other two) in Victoria that was
totally self sufficient. BY that I mean it was equipped with the
necessary machinery & staff to do anything from rebuilding small
stationary engines to grinding the valves on the Able Tasman (which we
did amongst other strange & wonderful things, but that's another story).

Anyway, a situation that always existed in this particular shop was that
there were always more machines than permanent staff capable of
operating them, and the reason for that was that at any given time not
every piece of machinery needed to be in operation. We had guys who
stuck to permanent roles like reconditioning cylinder heads, grinding
cranks or assembling engines, but then there'd be a few others who had
multi roles like pin fitting & boring & honing, and when they weren't
doing those jobs they'd be on the line bore machine or any odd general
engineering tasks.

Another policy that management had in place was that they always wanted
at least two guys who were capable of operating every machine in the
place, as it got them out of trouble if there was someone off sick or on
leave. I was one of those along with another guy, but he left the
company after a while to start his own business and they needed a second.

So they offered the role to this young bloke who was not long out of his
time, and to make it somewhat appealing they "promoted" him to a
position of leading hand.

He was a very meticulous and diligent worker who normally was very
courteous and friendly, and to everyone else in the shop this promoting
simply meant nothing other than "If Jack's off on leave next week you're
driving the boring bar until he gets back". But this kid took it to mean
he was now wearing a Sheriff's badge, and his attitude went from the
sublime to the totally fucking ridiculous.

Within the space of a few days he went from being someone who was
genuinely interested in his work and just got on with the job to being
interested in nothing other than strutting around telling people (who
really didn't need to be told) what to do and how to do it. Virtually
overnight he suddenly thought he knew more about the job than everyone
else in the shop combined, and that everyone else in the place was a
fucking idiot and only he knew how to run the shop properly.

Of course this kind of shit wasn't going to fly for long, and by the end
of the second week everyone in the place had had a gutful. He was
dragged over the coals and told to pull his head in, and reminded of the
fact that while he was good at his job he was still fresh out of his
time and had absolutely no business telling blokes who were doing it
while he was still a glint in his old man's eye how they should do theirs..

But sadly it fell on deaf ears. He got so caught up in his own
importance he told management that they didn't have a clue and was
eventually dismissed which was sad, as he was a good tradie when he
wanted to be and by that stage the job was already becoming a dying art
that saw fewer & fewer people willing to learn with each new year.

I guess that story probably wasn't worth the read, but it was just a
memory of how strange some people can be at times. I haven't seen the
guy in years, but the last I heard he was driving a courier van for a
living.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

I thought you were going to say "selling overpriced audiophile
equipment to the gullible", for a minute there



BTW it was said on another thread a few months back that Trev's missus
allegedly works at the CSIRO, probably pulling in a big and pay
packet, that comes out of our pocket as taxpayers, and one reason he
is so fanatical about supporting
AGW is that she may possibly earn her income there as a result of it
either directly or indirectly.

He didn't deny any of this that I saw.




Great story though, have seen similar before in the workplace, but not
to this extent.

 

[keithr]

On 5/12/2011 5:08 PM, Jeßus wrote:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:40:35 +1100, Noddy<me@home.com> wrote:

On 5/12/2011 9:19 AM, Jeßus wrote:

Having been a research assistant in my earlier days, I can certainly
attest to that. The things I saw happen...

Not that I've had any personal experience, but if you look at the famous
people throughout the scientific world it seems to be a bizarre one.

Take Werner Von Braun for example. Probably the world's most eminent
rocket scientist in his day, and a man who played a major role in the
American space program to put a man on the moon, but for a time he was a
passionate Nazi developing weapons that killed thousands of people and
was in charge of a production facility that employed slave labour that
brutally killed hundreds more.

The theme that seemed to run through his life as it did with so many
other famous scientists was Ego. He didn't seem to care terribly much
how his work impacted on others, as long as he was allowed to do it and
was prepared to deal with the devil to make that possible.

I've seen and read a fair bit on this topic, and I agree with your
assessment on Von Braun. His sole motivation seems to have been to do
the science itself, at any cost.

My experience wasn't so much like that, more to do with
backstabbing/politics and securing their own financial well being
often at the expense of scientific accuracy. Seen plenty of sloppy
technique as well. The bloke I worked for (who will remain nameless
for now) was regarded as the world authority in his field, he also had
quite an ego and was jealous of most any/all competitors in his field
(excepting those in his own little faction).

I worked for 6 months once in a university. I've seen office politics
elsewhere, but the academics there raised it to an art form. As a well
known Australian academic said, it is not enough to succeed, others must
be seen to fail. The academic staff there spent what time was left over
from blowing their own trumpets stabbing the others in the back. I stood
it for 6 months but I just had to get out of there (and the pay was crap).

OTOH, the research establishment where I did my apprenticeship the
scientist there were easy to get on with, they'd even take advice from
us third year apprentices when it actually came to building stuff.

 

[Noddy]

On 6/12/2011 6:09 PM, JONZ wrote:

yes, That would be your speed......

It was *really* worthwhile reposting that in it's entirety *just* to add
that insignificant little bit if shit, wasn't it Festus?

Once again you show that not only are you living proof that humans can
survive with a brain the size of a walnut, but that you're a fucking
*lazy* cunt as well.

Top job dickhead.



--
Regards,
Noddy.

 

[Noddy]

On 6/12/2011 6:55 PM, kreed wrote:

I thought you were going to say "selling overpriced audiophile
equipment to the gullible", for a minute there

Lol

BTW it was said on another thread a few months back that Trev's missus
allegedly works at the CSIRO, probably pulling in a big and pay
packet, that comes out of our pocket as taxpayers, and one reason he
is so fanatical about supporting AGW is that she may possibly earn her income there as a result of it
either directly or indirectly.

He didn't deny any of this that I saw.

He's mentioned before that his partner is a scientist, but he gave no
indication as to what they did specifically. If I remember correctly he
also commented that the pay was pretty lousy at under a hundred grand a
year, but he didn't say how far under a hundred large in particular.

If they were getting 88 grand a year I don't think that's doing terribly
badly myself


--
Regards,
Noddy.

 

[terryc]

Noddy wrote:

Why do you keep resorting to this infantile insulting of people who
don't share your views Trevor? It really does your case no favours....

He has no case. Just a mindless reciting of rote.

 

[terryc]

atec77 wrote:

On 6/12/2011 2:45 PM, terryc wrote:
atec77 wrote:

Now that climate-gate is openly being examined it's patently obvious
tweva is a fuckwitt , next time I get down Melbourne and time permits
I intend explaining in person exactly why he is

You would be around 870Kms too far away for that purpose.


just shows how little tweva matters , sydney then as I hear his silly
little shop is hidden in some backwater at the wrong side of town for me
so the visiting might be to much trouble , either way the bloke is still
a fuckwitt

I suspect his riverside location will become a boat moorage if the
oceans rise.
>

 

[terryc]

Noddy wrote:

On 6/12/2011 10:30 AM, John_H wrote:

You might take it a little more seriously!

This is Australian politics we're talking about

Abbott inherited the poisoned chalice by default, at the time when no
one anticipated Labor's imminent fall from grace, yet IIRC his
popularity rating has always been lower than Gillard's (or Rudd's).
He's completely lacking in vision and he's made a heap of commitments
he can't possibly honour in government.

All of which points to an early use by date. Whether he falls on his
sword, falls off his bike or gets abducted by aliens remains to be
seen. It's a fairly safe bet he won't go the same way as Rudd.

Indeed, although I'd add that little Kevvy probably still has some life
left in him yet.

You can not be serious. Oh wait, there is some great labor dead wood in
parliament, so ice bergs chance in hell might be right.

Look at it, has no support but is picked by the power boys. Then
proceeds to shit all over everyone and ignore past practises and other
peole. Eventually they labor pollies get so pissed off with him,ten
when he is gven the word, he can not get enough of them to say that they
would support him, so he folds and walks away. He was a complete good
time boy and that was the total sum of him.

Now, he throws petulant hissy fits when he isn't the centre of
attention. hardly leadership material.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 12/6/2011 3:50 PM, Noddy wrote:

On 6/12/2011 9:57 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Sure. Happy to do so. The massive weight of scientific investigation
lies with AGW as being a reality. It is up to those who don't accept
that massive weight of scientific opinion to produce some data that
contradicts ALL the above organisations.

I believe there have been a number of such counter claims, and from some
credible sources, yet there seems to be none that you will accept.

**I'll bite. List those claims and their sources that you feel are
credible. I will discuss each and every one with you.

Could they ALL be wrong?

Of course they could. Are you saying it's impossible for a large number
of people to be wrong?

**Of course not. Look at the Catholics. However, unlike the Catholics,
AGW researchers have quite a number of 'runs on the board'. Let's look
at a very quick snapshot of what the issue entails:

* The planet has warmed at a faster rate in the last 100-odd years, than
at any time in the last 600,000 years. FACT. No dispute.
* The planet has accumulated CO2 in the atmosphere at a faster rate than
at any time in the last 600,000 years. FACT. No dispute.
* CO2 is a known greenhouse gas. FACT. No dispute. The contribution of
CO2 to planetary warming has been known for more than 100 years. It has
been shown experimentally many times. Even Mythbusters were surprised
when they performed the experiment. VERY tiny amounts of CO2 can and do
cause 'Solar forcing' (Additional warming).
* As the planet warms, more CO2 will outgas from the oceans. FACT. No
dipute.
* As the planet warms, methane will be released from permafrost areas.
Methane is a MUCH more potent GHG than CO2. Fortunately, methane breaks
down rapidly (about 10 years) in the atmosphere. UNFORTUNATELY, CO2 is
one of the breakdown products. CO2 has a very long life in the
atmoshere. FACT. No dispute.
* All this is thought to lead to a kind of positive feedback (aka:
'Tipping Point'), where more CO2 leads to hotter temperatures, which, in
turn, leads to more GHGs being released into the atmosphere, which, in
turn, leads to higher temperatures, more GHGs and so on. The 'Tipping
Point' is thought to be around 500ppm. SPECULATIVE. Plenty of dispute.
In fact, at least one researcher is of the opinion that the tipping
point has already been reached.

So, the upshot is, that we are really only arguing a single point:

Will the release of more CO2 cause irreparable damage to the planet?

We don't know for certain. The general concensus amongst most climate
scientists is that more CO2 will lead to irreparable problems.

Further to that point: Like most things in life, early attention will
cost a whole lot less than dealing with it later.

Sure. Is it likely that they're ALL wrong and Alan Jones, George Pell and
Monckton are right? Nup. Not likely at all.

Why do you keep resorting to this infantile insulting of people who
don't share your views Trevor? It really does your case no favours....

**It is very important that those who embrace the non-scientific
approach be made aware of the people that share their views.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 12/6/2011 4:05 PM, Noddy wrote:

On 6/12/2011 10:15 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:


**Prove it. Cite your hard evidence to support your claim.

The "climategate" affair certainly casts a heavy shadow over the
operations of the IPCC, as well as other criticisms.

**Does it? Tell you what: You present a few of the emails, IN CONTEXT,
that you feel completely destroy the notion of AGW.

**Ther IPCC reports are only dismissed by these people:

* Liars.
* Those who have failed to read the reports.
* Those who have an agenda which does not include AGW theory.

Given that you cannot possibly know what goes on in the minds of anyone
else *but* yourself, such comments make you look terribly "emotional".

**I just deal with facts. AFTER you have read the IPCC AR4 you may share
my view.

**Science is science. If you don't read, nor try to understand the
science, then you can't critcise it.

Crap.

Correct me if I'm wrong Trev, but the "science", such as it is, consists
of little than the correlation of data, and some *theories* as to what
causes them to be.

**The scientific method:
1) Define a question
2) Gather data
3) Hypothesis
4) Test hypothesis
5) Analyse data
6) Interpret data and draw conclusions
7) Publich results.
8) Retest

In the area of AGW, we are at #8.

That might be science to you, but to me it's just guessing and it will
remain so until it can be conclusively proved.

**And, as I have stated before, absolute, conclusive proof will come at
a time when it is too late to act (assuming the 'tipping point' theory
is correct). The cost of action now is relatively inconvenient, but
managable. The cost of acting later (say 100 years hence) is likely to
be impossible to fund. IOW: Human society will be fucked.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

"Bernd Felsche" wrote in message
news:k49uq8xdsn.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au...

Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

On 12/4/2011 11:56 PM, Noddy wrote:

The one were most of the "credible" scientists in England who
have been associated with it for a number of years are now
largely in hiding after it was recently revealed that their
modelling was wrong (and they knew it) and that their principal
objective was to scare the shit out of the public to ensure
continued funding.

**Really? Of are you just accepting some out of context words, from
people who have a financial gain in perpetuating the digging up of
fossil fuels?

Oh yeah ... the fossil fuel funding... which happens to be about
20:1 in favour of the CAGW alarmist organizations.

It's about money for research. Money to maintain power.
No science.

You don't understand the concept of a rational argument.
Which is why you're such an excellent example of how NOT to argue
when trying to make a point.

SO, keep doing it.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
X against HTML mail | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
/ \ and postings | --HL Mencken
================================================================
Oh dear.....(yawn)...

Cheers
DAVO

 

[Jeßus]

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:30:45 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:

On 5/12/2011 5:08 PM, Jeßus wrote:

My experience wasn't so much like that, more to do with
backstabbing/politics and securing their own financial well being
often at the expense of scientific accuracy. Seen plenty of sloppy
technique as well. The bloke I worked for (who will remain nameless
for now) was regarded as the world authority in his field, he also had
quite an ego and was jealous of most any/all competitors in his field
(excepting those in his own little faction).

There's nothing stranger than folk.

I know Trevor rubs some people up the wrong way with his climate change
argument, and I think he's a little left field myself, but I don't mind
the bloke and genuinely enjoy my time arguing with him.

I don't mind him *until* he gets onto this subject, or on gun control.
He specialises in a special blend of oversimplified, inflexible and
naive one-sided viewpoints and insults whilst at the same time
apparently trying to have a reasoned debate. I gave up on it a long
time ago, the longer the debate goes on the more obtuse he becomes.

Notice the constant references to Alan Jones in this thread... I don't
have the patience for it anymore

However, one
thing about him that I really don't get is his apparent belief that
scientists are completely immune from any kind of human failings and I
think it's pretty bizarre.

Yeah, that's a big part of why I've lost patience with him. Life
experience has taught most of us that lesson, but not Trevor.

I know he's mentioned before that his partner
has a scientific background and that probably plays a significant part,
but I mean, shit, people are people and even the most eminent people in
their fields can be more than a little odd as you've experienced yourself.

I can recall similar incidents myself over the years, and one that
springs to mind was when I was a service manager at a car dealership
some time ago. It was in an up-market part of town and had a few clients
who were pretty well known, and one in particular I'll never forget.

He was a psychiatrist, and one of Melbourne's most eminent shrinks, but
he had this "my shit's chocolate ice-cream" air about him and looked
down his nose at everyone else. I'll never forget when I met him when he
first brought his car in for a service, as he introduced himself as
"Professor X", he *insisted* that he be called professor and whipped
open his attaché case to produce a 17 page fucking *resume* that
detailed all of his scholastic and professional achievements going back
almost 40 years

A business card? sure. The handle of "professor"? Okay, you're
important. But a fucking resume to book your car in for a service?
*Jesus*... Talk about relevance deprivation

As bizarre as that sounds (and it really was. I still have the resume as
a memento of a truly unique experience) such strange behaviour isn't
limited to white collar professionals.

Years ago I did an apprenticeship with Repco at one of their larger
machine shops. This was back in the early 80's when Repco was a
Respected company that had machine shops that were staffed by
experienced tradesmen who'd been in the job for decades.

This particular shop was in Footscray, and it was one of three large
shops (Coburg & Dandenong being the other two) in Victoria that was
totally self sufficient. BY that I mean it was equipped with the
necessary machinery & staff to do anything from rebuilding small
stationary engines to grinding the valves on the Able Tasman (which we
did amongst other strange & wonderful things, but that's another story).

Anyway, a situation that always existed in this particular shop was that
there were always more machines than permanent staff capable of
operating them, and the reason for that was that at any given time not
every piece of machinery needed to be in operation. We had guys who
stuck to permanent roles like reconditioning cylinder heads, grinding
cranks or assembling engines, but then there'd be a few others who had
multi roles like pin fitting & boring & honing, and when they weren't
doing those jobs they'd be on the line bore machine or any odd general
engineering tasks.

Another policy that management had in place was that they always wanted
at least two guys who were capable of operating every machine in the
place, as it got them out of trouble if there was someone off sick or on
leave. I was one of those along with another guy, but he left the
company after a while to start his own business and they needed a second.

So they offered the role to this young bloke who was not long out of his
time, and to make it somewhat appealing they "promoted" him to a
position of leading hand.

He was a very meticulous and diligent worker who normally was very
courteous and friendly, and to everyone else in the shop this promoting
simply meant nothing other than "If Jack's off on leave next week you're
driving the boring bar until he gets back". But this kid took it to mean
he was now wearing a Sheriff's badge, and his attitude went from the
sublime to the totally fucking ridiculous.

Within the space of a few days he went from being someone who was
genuinely interested in his work and just got on with the job to being
interested in nothing other than strutting around telling people (who
really didn't need to be told) what to do and how to do it. Virtually
overnight he suddenly thought he knew more about the job than everyone
else in the shop combined, and that everyone else in the place was a
fucking idiot and only he knew how to run the shop properly.

Of course this kind of shit wasn't going to fly for long, and by the end
of the second week everyone in the place had had a gutful. He was
dragged over the coals and told to pull his head in, and reminded of the
fact that while he was good at his job he was still fresh out of his
time and had absolutely no business telling blokes who were doing it
while he was still a glint in his old man's eye how they should do theirs.

But sadly it fell on deaf ears. He got so caught up in his own
importance he told management that they didn't have a clue and was
eventually dismissed which was sad, as he was a good tradie when he
wanted to be and by that stage the job was already becoming a dying art
that saw fewer & fewer people willing to learn with each new year.

I guess that story probably wasn't worth the read, but it was just a
memory of how strange some people can be at times. I haven't seen the
guy in years, but the last I heard he was driving a courier van for a
living.

A good read nonetheless on the quirks of humanity, I especially like
the one about the psychiatrist

 

[Jeßus]

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 20:37:40 +1100, keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au>
wrote:

On 5/12/2011 5:08 PM, Jeßus wrote:
My experience wasn't so much like that, more to do with
backstabbing/politics and securing their own financial well being
often at the expense of scientific accuracy. Seen plenty of sloppy
technique as well. The bloke I worked for (who will remain nameless
for now) was regarded as the world authority in his field, he also had
quite an ego and was jealous of most any/all competitors in his field
(excepting those in his own little faction).

I worked for 6 months once in a university. I've seen office politics
elsewhere, but the academics there raised it to an art form. As a well
known Australian academic said, it is not enough to succeed, others must
be seen to fail. The academic staff there spent what time was left over
from blowing their own trumpets stabbing the others in the back. I stood
it for 6 months but I just had to get out of there (and the pay was crap).

I can relate to the crap pay, from memory I was on $180p/w at the time
(early 80's). Worked whatever hours were required - I know one time we
worked 4 days straight without sleep (or for as long as we could stay
awake anyway, in my case that was 2.5 days with no sleep). But it was
a great job with a lot of special (non-financial) perks. I stayed
there longer than most, until I really needed to earn real money at
least.

OTOH, the research establishment where I did my apprenticeship the
scientist there were easy to get on with, they'd even take advice from
us third year apprentices when it actually came to building stuff.

I saved my boss's bacon a number of times by noticing problems with
the data or the experiments themselves... well, maybe not 'saved his
bacon' but at least made the data more accurate.

 

[Jeßus]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 20:26:41 +1100, "Lindsay"
<ask.me.for.it@hornet.net.ay.you> wrote:

"Jeßus" <none@all.invalid> wrote in message
news:6oood7l9rbe6f6cvos3a4vnhqq2gdmns5h@4ax.com...

I should have known better. How many times are you going to try to
infer that we all listen to that moron Alan Jones? I haven't even
stated my opinion on GW, in case you haven't noticed!

You, Trevor, are a fucking idiot. Time to filter you again.

Seems to be a popular and growing perception. Maybe he has some "issues"
that he needs to confront...

Ask him about his elastic seine net killfile. It's a Twev special. It
breathes like a human lung, and lets people in and out whenever he sees fit,
but he forgets to tell anyone, until it suits his dodgy arguements.
At one stage he had every "John" on the net in there, and expected me to
pick one. I picked John the Baptist, John Lennon, John Cleese, which were
all wrong.

He's strange, is twev....

Indeed. I have no problem with his having views on *whatever*, but the
way he debates them is another matter.

 

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 17:59:38 -0800 (PST), kreed <kenreed1999@gmail.com>
wrote:

If you take a look at the modern USA, it seems going down the same
path

Apart from trying to spy on and monitor everyone and anyone possible,
you recently got this "super congress" that is modelled on the Nazi
"enabling act" of the 30's and a couple of days ago this absolutely
chilling law
just passed by their congress that anyone SUSPECTED of being a
terrorist can be grabbed without warrant,
evidence or any due process and detained indefinitely,
probably in something like gitmo, or these overseas torture centres.

Bit rich considering there is an ever growing body of evidence that
the gov had quite a bit to do with causing 9/11 in the first place


Not to mention the molestations at the airports

Then in the USA we get these armed raids on people selling raw milk or
organic foods, (including Amish)
kids being prosecuted for having lemonade stands people arrested for
having a garden (vegetables, not illegal substances).
Google all this and be prepared for a shock,
if you aren't aware of it already

How do you like Codex Alimentarius? How about the food bill in N.Z?
http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=30276

I think anyone who lives there, that can, should look seriously at a
plan to get out of there if the worst happens,
while they are still actually able to do so.

Kreed, you and I are on the same page

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 12/7/2011 8:27 AM, Jeßus wrote:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:30:45 +1100, Noddy<me@home.com> wrote:

On 5/12/2011 5:08 PM, Jeßus wrote:

My experience wasn't so much like that, more to do with
backstabbing/politics and securing their own financial well being
often at the expense of scientific accuracy. Seen plenty of sloppy
technique as well. The bloke I worked for (who will remain nameless
for now) was regarded as the world authority in his field, he also had
quite an ego and was jealous of most any/all competitors in his field
(excepting those in his own little faction).

There's nothing stranger than folk.

I know Trevor rubs some people up the wrong way with his climate change
argument, and I think he's a little left field myself, but I don't mind
the bloke and genuinely enjoy my time arguing with him.

I don't mind him *until* he gets onto this subject, or on gun control.
He specialises in a special blend of oversimplified, inflexible and
naive one-sided viewpoints and insults whilst at the same time
apparently trying to have a reasoned debate.

**Let's examine those points for a moment:

* You speak of my position on gun control. What is that position? (I
don't want to drag this off-topic and into a long discussion, but see if
you can characterise my position, rather than what you imagine it to be).
* The IPCC AR4 report runs to more than 1600 pages. AR5 may be even
larger. Climate science is complex stuff. Very complex stuff. I don't
pretend to understand anything more than the basics. And yes, I've read
AR4. I've also read a large amount of denialist 'science' as well. It is
virtually impossible to encapsulate the basics in a newsgroup
discussion, particularly, when the person one is discusing this stuff
with has not even bothered to read the most important document that
pertains to the topic. Of course, I resort to qips. I have no other choice.



I gave up on it a long

time ago, the longer the debate goes on the more obtuse he becomes.

**Have you read AR4?

Notice the constant references to Alan Jones in this thread... I don't
have the patience for it anymore

**I use those points for effect. I want deniers (Noddy is one) to be
well aware that people like Jones are precisely the people that he is
aligned with. Jones has probably be bought by the fossil fuel lobby to
get their message across. Their message is pretty obivous - To muddy the
waters around the science, to pick up on the tiniest details and expose
those tiny errors and declare the whole lot invalid. Take AR4, for
instance. Of the 1600-odd pages, approximately 4 have been found to
contain errors. Naturally, it is those tiny errors that deniers focus
on. They fail to mention the 1596 pages of decent, solid science. AND, I
might add, the IPCC has addressed those errors and made the appropriate
admissions and corrections.

However, one
thing about him that I really don't get is his apparent belief that
scientists are completely immune from any kind of human failings and I
think it's pretty bizarre.

**Bollocks, Noddy. Scientists are human. They make mistakes. They lie,
cheat and steal. In the main, however, scientists are not in the job for
the money. The guys who publish books on denialist 'science', like
Carter, Lindzen and the others can make a lot more money. The boss of
Exxon makes STUPENDOUS amounts of cash.

Yeah, that's a big part of why I've lost patience with him. Life
experience has taught most of us that lesson, but not Trevor.

**Except that Noddy's assumption is not rooted in fact. He made a faulty
assumption.

I know he's mentioned before that his partner
has a scientific background and that probably plays a significant part,
but I mean, shit, people are people and even the most eminent people in
their fields can be more than a little odd as you've experienced yourself.

**My partner is a physicist. She studies the Sun. She works damned hard
for a government department. She is paid a wage that is less than a
highly qualified teacher (which she used to be), a plumber, a sparkie, a
lawyer, a doctor, or almost anyone in the mining industry. She spent
years at uni and has spent years since, studying her business (she often
goes to bed with texts to keep up with current developments - she is not
paid for those extra studies, which she needs to do to ensure she can do
her job effectively). Know any other government workers who do that? I
don't. She is the best person I know (NEVER tell her I said that).
Honest, ethical and very hard working (she works 7 days a week, once per
month, getting essential reports out to defence, shipping and
communications people).

Oh yeah: She haseven less patience than I do with either those who don't
accept AGW and complete contempt for anyone who does not educate
themselves on the matter. She cannot understand why I waste my time with
attempting to educate people in the matter. She figures they deserve
what they will get. She does not suffer fools.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au