OT: China Cuts E-vehicle Subsidies

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 1:15:30 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 10:02:00 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:44:13 AM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:22:36 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:12:21 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.


You guys are crazy about EVs, but what do you do after a major storm when the grid is down for months?

Huh? You mean like in Puerto Rico? Otherwise I haven't seen any places in the US not have electricity for MONTHS! How do you get gasoline without electricity? They bring it in 5 gal jerry cans? Again, I've never been in that situation in my life and never heard of anyone in the US being in that situation. So clearly it's not high on my list of worries.


Idiot. It is brought in by tanker trucks just like other deliveries, once the roads are clear and safe That doesn't happen until the hurricane is over.

Newer gas stations have a generator, but only big enough for the station to operate. Older stations stop receiving fuel deliveries before the electricity is out, so their tanks are empty until power is restored. The stations shut down the generators when they run out of fuel, so no lights means no fuel.


How do you evacuate half a state during a hurricane?

You mean like when I was in South Carolina wanting to register my new EV and the state closed the DMVs because of the impending Hurricane? I drove out and charged once before I left, then again when I reached Virginia.

Yawn. You left before it hit, not during or after.

Yes, that's what the smart people do. Why would anyone wait until after the hurricane to leave? I guess that explains a lot of your problem.


Even gasoline is in short supply after hurricanes, I've lived through many of them, where the only electricity available was emergency shelters and hospitals. No one is going to let you charge an EV at one of these locations, since they are unsure of replacement fuel deliveries. I have gone close to three months without electricity as thousands of poles are replaced, and downed lines are spliced. During and after Irma, the ONLY source to buy food for a month was a McDonald's that had a reefer full of food brought in ahead of time, and a large mobile generator.

Yeah, your house didn't have electricity. I bet the Superchargers had juice. It's still early days for EVs, that's true. In another three or four years there will be many, many more charging locations. If emergency shelters are the only places with electricity you have much bigger problems than worrying about a car.


What supercharges? I don't recall seeing any charging stations in this area. When there is no power to entire cites, how will you get power to your precious superchargers?

If you are evacuating you can stop at the Superchargers on your way out.... like any other time when you are driving.


Sure you can. You've never seen a mass evacuation, have you? it isn't anywhere near a normal traffic load. The traffic is bumper to bumper, toll roads are turned off, and even the southbound lanes of I-75 are used for Northbound traffic. You are clueless as to the conditions involved. Add to the other problems, but South Florida is full of liberal idiots who don't make any preparations for emergencies. They are like the people who died during Katrina, trapped in their attics because the refused to leave until it was too late.

That's for sure. Anyone that thinks an electric vehicle isn't at a severe
disadvantage in that situation is in denial.

As to liberal idiots, I remember listening to Rush Limbaugh act totally
irresponsibly as a major hurricane approached FL where he lives. He
was running down the forecasters, belittling them, claiming they can't
really tell you where it's going to hit, that they make it sound much
worse than it will be, that people buying supplies and evacuating are
fools. Of course he would occasionally say, "I'm not telling you what
to do". Just before the hurricane hit, Rush evacuated. He didn't take
an electric car, he just hopped on his fueled and waiting G4. How convenient.
So I guess there are conservative idiots too.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 3:09:03 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 4/20/19 1:23 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 11:34:43 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 7:17 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote...

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:57:31 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

I've used the Volt as a little gen-set in a pinch, lol. It has a 12 volt
battery in the back and 12 volt bus for starting and accessories like
any other car. Just attach a 1kW inverter box to the bus and leave the
car powered up; the 12 volt will run down and the high voltage pack or
engine, depending, will cut in to top it back up when needed.

I can just fire up my small generator, now that I have one.

The Volt is a portable generator, with its own wheels.



You can use most cars that way I suppose, if you have an inverter brick,
but they won't make a particular efficient one as you have to leave the
engine spinning all the time just to turn the teeny lil alternator.

IIRC there are companies that make mod kits for some plug-in hybrids
that put an AC outlet or two in the trunk for exactly that purpose

Haven't you ever had a dual battery system? They have been around for at least 50 years. I even installed some for an amusement park for their paddle boats so that they could run their sound system and lights while they loaded and unloaded passengers. The secondary battery powered that, while the primary only started the big Chevy engines and powered the ignition system. They didn't have 'tiny alternators'. They had the high output units made for ambulances or fire trucks. I even had a dual system on my '66 GTO. That also had a second alternator.


Haven't really had a use for a setup like that! I've lived in the Boston
area for 3/4ths of my 40 years, about, and I can count the number of
times my power has gone out for more than 24 hours on one hand with
fingers to spare.

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time..

The dual battery concept was originally for RVs and boats but it became popular n work vehicles. The one on the GTO was just to confuse the oil jockeys at the gas stations.

They would open the hood without asking, then short stick you to try to sell you oil you didn't need. They would ask, What is that under the hood?" I would give hem a nervous look and tell them, "You didn't see anything. If you say anything to the wrong people, they will kill you!" Being in my US Army uniform helped! Small minds are fun to play with but there wear out too fast. Sadly there are no spare parts.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:36:50 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 1:15:30 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 10:02:00 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:44:13 AM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:22:36 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:12:21 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.


You guys are crazy about EVs, but what do you do after a major storm when the grid is down for months?

Huh? You mean like in Puerto Rico? Otherwise I haven't seen any places in the US not have electricity for MONTHS! How do you get gasoline without electricity? They bring it in 5 gal jerry cans? Again, I've never been in that situation in my life and never heard of anyone in the US being in that situation. So clearly it's not high on my list of worries.


Idiot. It is brought in by tanker trucks just like other deliveries, once the roads are clear and safe That doesn't happen until the hurricane is over.

Newer gas stations have a generator, but only big enough for the station to operate. Older stations stop receiving fuel deliveries before the electricity is out, so their tanks are empty until power is restored. The stations shut down the generators when they run out of fuel, so no lights means no fuel.


How do you evacuate half a state during a hurricane?

You mean like when I was in South Carolina wanting to register my new EV and the state closed the DMVs because of the impending Hurricane? I drove out and charged once before I left, then again when I reached Virginia.

Yawn. You left before it hit, not during or after.

Yes, that's what the smart people do. Why would anyone wait until after the hurricane to leave? I guess that explains a lot of your problem.


Even gasoline is in short supply after hurricanes, I've lived through many of them, where the only electricity available was emergency shelters and hospitals. No one is going to let you charge an EV at one of these locations, since they are unsure of replacement fuel deliveries. I have gone close to three months without electricity as thousands of poles are replaced, and downed lines are spliced. During and after Irma, the ONLY source to buy food for a month was a McDonald's that had a reefer full of food brought in ahead of time, and a large mobile generator.

Yeah, your house didn't have electricity. I bet the Superchargers had juice. It's still early days for EVs, that's true. In another three or four years there will be many, many more charging locations. If emergency shelters are the only places with electricity you have much bigger problems than worrying about a car.


What supercharges? I don't recall seeing any charging stations in this area. When there is no power to entire cites, how will you get power to your precious superchargers?

If you are evacuating you can stop at the Superchargers on your way out... like any other time when you are driving.


Sure you can. You've never seen a mass evacuation, have you? it isn't anywhere near a normal traffic load. The traffic is bumper to bumper, toll roads are turned off, and even the southbound lanes of I-75 are used for Northbound traffic. You are clueless as to the conditions involved. Add to the other problems, but South Florida is full of liberal idiots who don't make any preparations for emergencies. They are like the people who died during Katrina, trapped in their attics because the refused to leave until it was too late.



That's for sure. Anyone that thinks an electric vehicle isn't at a severe
disadvantage in that situation is in denial.

As to liberal idiots, I remember listening to Rush Limbaugh act totally
irresponsibly as a major hurricane approached FL where he lives. He
was running down the forecasters, belittling them, claiming they can't
really tell you where it's going to hit, that they make it sound much
worse than it will be, that people buying supplies and evacuating are
fools. Of course he would occasionally say, "I'm not telling you what
to do". Just before the hurricane hit, Rush evacuated. He didn't take
an electric car, he just hopped on his fueled and waiting G4. How convenient.
So I guess there are conservative idiots too.

I don't listen to Rush, but I have heard that he often uses sarcasm to get people's attention. As far as the weather forecasters, they will show over a dozen possible paths, and screech that it is Armageddon, and the 250 mile wide storm will destroy everything that it touches so they are quite hard to take seriously.

I've lost count of the number of 'Storm of the Century', and 'The world is ending for everyone!' It is the only time the news departments have free reign of what's broadcast, and storm coverage is as full of fake news as elections.

 

[bitrex]

On 4/20/19 1:23 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 11:34:43 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 7:17 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote...

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:57:31 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

I've used the Volt as a little gen-set in a pinch, lol. It has a 12 volt
battery in the back and 12 volt bus for starting and accessories like
any other car. Just attach a 1kW inverter box to the bus and leave the
car powered up; the 12 volt will run down and the high voltage pack or
engine, depending, will cut in to top it back up when needed.

I can just fire up my small generator, now that I have one.

The Volt is a portable generator, with its own wheels.



You can use most cars that way I suppose, if you have an inverter brick,
but they won't make a particular efficient one as you have to leave the
engine spinning all the time just to turn the teeny lil alternator.

IIRC there are companies that make mod kits for some plug-in hybrids
that put an AC outlet or two in the trunk for exactly that purpose

Haven't you ever had a dual battery system? They have been around for at least 50 years. I even installed some for an amusement park for their paddle boats so that they could run their sound system and lights while they loaded and unloaded passengers. The secondary battery powered that, while the primary only started the big Chevy engines and powered the ignition system. They didn't have 'tiny alternators'. They had the high output units made for ambulances or fire trucks. I even had a dual system on my '66 GTO. That also had a second alternator.

Haven't really had a use for a setup like that! I've lived in the Boston
area for 3/4ths of my 40 years, about, and I can count the number of
times my power has gone out for more than 24 hours on one hand with
fingers to spare.

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.

 

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 3:21:58 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 3:09:03 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 1:23 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 11:34:43 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 7:17 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote...

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:57:31 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

I've used the Volt as a little gen-set in a pinch, lol. It has a 12 volt
battery in the back and 12 volt bus for starting and accessories like
any other car. Just attach a 1kW inverter box to the bus and leave the
car powered up; the 12 volt will run down and the high voltage pack or
engine, depending, will cut in to top it back up when needed.

I can just fire up my small generator, now that I have one.

The Volt is a portable generator, with its own wheels.



You can use most cars that way I suppose, if you have an inverter brick,
but they won't make a particular efficient one as you have to leave the
engine spinning all the time just to turn the teeny lil alternator.

IIRC there are companies that make mod kits for some plug-in hybrids
that put an AC outlet or two in the trunk for exactly that purpose

Haven't you ever had a dual battery system? They have been around for at least 50 years. I even installed some for an amusement park for their paddle boats so that they could run their sound system and lights while they loaded and unloaded passengers. The secondary battery powered that, while the primary only started the big Chevy engines and powered the ignition system. They didn't have 'tiny alternators'. They had the high output units made for ambulances or fire trucks. I even had a dual system on my '66 GTO.. That also had a second alternator.


Haven't really had a use for a setup like that! I've lived in the Boston
area for 3/4ths of my 40 years, about, and I can count the number of
times my power has gone out for more than 24 hours on one hand with
fingers to spare.

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.


The dual battery concept was originally for RVs and boats but it became popular n work vehicles. The one on the GTO was just to confuse the oil jockeys at the gas stations.

They would open the hood without asking, then short stick you to try to sell you oil you didn't need. They would ask, What is that under the hood?" I would give hem a nervous look and tell them, "You didn't see anything. If you say anything to the wrong people, they will kill you!" Being in my US Army uniform helped! Small minds are fun to play with but there wear out too fast. Sadly there are no spare parts.

I know exactly what they were thinking and it has nothing to do with your uniform. lol

--

Rick C.

++- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 3:09:03 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 4/20/19 1:23 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 11:34:43 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 7:17 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote...

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:57:31 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

I've used the Volt as a little gen-set in a pinch, lol. It has a 12 volt
battery in the back and 12 volt bus for starting and accessories like
any other car. Just attach a 1kW inverter box to the bus and leave the
car powered up; the 12 volt will run down and the high voltage pack or
engine, depending, will cut in to top it back up when needed.

I can just fire up my small generator, now that I have one.

The Volt is a portable generator, with its own wheels.



You can use most cars that way I suppose, if you have an inverter brick,
but they won't make a particular efficient one as you have to leave the
engine spinning all the time just to turn the teeny lil alternator.

IIRC there are companies that make mod kits for some plug-in hybrids
that put an AC outlet or two in the trunk for exactly that purpose

Haven't you ever had a dual battery system? They have been around for at least 50 years. I even installed some for an amusement park for their paddle boats so that they could run their sound system and lights while they loaded and unloaded passengers. The secondary battery powered that, while the primary only started the big Chevy engines and powered the ignition system. They didn't have 'tiny alternators'. They had the high output units made for ambulances or fire trucks. I even had a dual system on my '66 GTO. That also had a second alternator.


Haven't really had a use for a setup like that! I've lived in the Boston
area for 3/4ths of my 40 years, about, and I can count the number of
times my power has gone out for more than 24 hours on one hand with
fingers to spare.

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time..

Regardless, events like this don't catch us unaware. With a fully charged EV you can get safely away easily. People just like to spread FUD about things they don't understand.

--

Rick C.

+-+ Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:36:50 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 1:15:30 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

Sure you can. You've never seen a mass evacuation, have you? it isn't anywhere near a normal traffic load. The traffic is bumper to bumper, toll roads are turned off, and even the southbound lanes of I-75 are used for Northbound traffic. You are clueless as to the conditions involved. Add to the other problems, but South Florida is full of liberal idiots who don't make any preparations for emergencies. They are like the people who died during Katrina, trapped in their attics because the refused to leave until it was too late.

That's for sure. Anyone that thinks an electric vehicle isn't at a severe
disadvantage in that situation is in denial.

You are only showing your ignorance. EV charging is mostly done at home. If Mike had an EV he could be well into Georgia before he needed to charge again and there are many opportunities for that along the way. There are lots of places to charge while you stop for a meal. If he booked a hotel, there's a fair chance the hotel would have overnight L2 charging. A 240 volt outlet will get the same charging rate or even a 120 volt outlet will get another 50 miles over night. How far do you need to go in an evacuation?

As to liberal idiots, I remember listening to Rush Limbaugh act totally
irresponsibly as a major hurricane approached FL where he lives. He
was running down the forecasters, belittling them, claiming they can't
really tell you where it's going to hit, that they make it sound much
worse than it will be, that people buying supplies and evacuating are
fools. Of course he would occasionally say, "I'm not telling you what
to do". Just before the hurricane hit, Rush evacuated. He didn't take
an electric car, he just hopped on his fueled and waiting G4. How convenient.
So I guess there are conservative idiots too.

I read the transcript of that show. He never said a lot of what people claim he said. He mostly ranted about the price of batteries and bottled water going up which is stupid. That was at the point when it was very hard to get back down the peninsula and I'm sure they were paying a LOT for the shipping of goods.

Mostly I learned that for the most part Limbaugh never says much of anything. He rants in a way designed to stir emotions *without* actually saying anything. Not unlike Trump he refers to things that he wants you to get upset about, but doesn't say anything. He also talks in partial sentences which clearly can't actually be saying anything. Limbaugh is a master at making you think he is saying something when he isn't.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:22:15 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 1:41:05 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 1:15:30 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 10:02:00 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:44:13 AM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:22:36 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:12:21 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.


You guys are crazy about EVs, but what do you do after a major storm when the grid is down for months?

Huh? You mean like in Puerto Rico? Otherwise I haven't seen any places in the US not have electricity for MONTHS! How do you get gasoline without electricity? They bring it in 5 gal jerry cans? Again, I've never been in that situation in my life and never heard of anyone in the US being in that situation. So clearly it's not high on my list of worries.


Idiot. It is brought in by tanker trucks just like other deliveries, once the roads are clear and safe That doesn't happen until the hurricane is over.

Newer gas stations have a generator, but only big enough for the station to operate. Older stations stop receiving fuel deliveries before the electricity is out, so their tanks are empty until power is restored. The stations shut down the generators when they run out of fuel, so no lights means no fuel.


How do you evacuate half a state during a hurricane?

You mean like when I was in South Carolina wanting to register my new EV and the state closed the DMVs because of the impending Hurricane? I drove out and charged once before I left, then again when I reached Virginia.

Yawn. You left before it hit, not during or after.

Yes, that's what the smart people do. Why would anyone wait until after the hurricane to leave? I guess that explains a lot of your problem.


Even gasoline is in short supply after hurricanes, I've lived through many of them, where the only electricity available was emergency shelters and hospitals. No one is going to let you charge an EV at one of these locations, since they are unsure of replacement fuel deliveries. I have gone close to three months without electricity as thousands of poles are replaced, and downed lines are spliced. During and after Irma, the ONLY source to buy food for a month was a McDonald's that had a reefer full of food brought in ahead of time, and a large mobile generator.

Yeah, your house didn't have electricity. I bet the Superchargers had juice. It's still early days for EVs, that's true. In another three or four years there will be many, many more charging locations. If emergency shelters are the only places with electricity you have much bigger problems than worrying about a car.


What supercharges? I don't recall seeing any charging stations in this area. When there is no power to entire cites, how will you get power to your precious superchargers?

If you are evacuating you can stop at the Superchargers on your way out... like any other time when you are driving.


Sure you can. You've never seen a mass evacuation, have you? it isn't anywhere near a normal traffic load. The traffic is bumper to bumper, toll roads are turned off, and even the southbound lanes of I-75 are used for Northbound traffic. You are clueless as to the conditions involved. Add to the other problems, but South Florida is full of liberal idiots who don't make any preparations for emergencies. They are like the people who died during Katrina, trapped in their attics because the refused to leave until it was too late.

So you are blaming the deaths of Katrina on electric cars???


No, I didn't but that doesn't matter to you.

Hey, I'm just responding to what you write. Instead of writing logically, you describe things that create emotions in your brain and think you are discussing "truths" of some sort. You imply connections where none exist. So I post the connections you imply to get you to make it clear that you don't stand by them.

Wow, you are hard to have a conversation with.

You should talk. You try to twist everything to fit into your fantasy world. I haven't owned a car in over 25 years, only trucks. Drive what you want, but it doesn't work for me. I am in my late '60s, retired and now 100% disabled. Those EVs are too small for me to ride in, let alone drive one because of my damaged legs. Keep showing your stupidity about the real world, I don't care.

Same for me. I had a smaller Toyota pickup for some years, then got a bigger T100 which I drove for 20 years. Now I have an EV and you will have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.

I find it funny that you talk so much about things you know nothing about. My EV is the roomiest car I've ever owned including my Tundra. Then you try to tell me I'm the stupid one. Well, I won't say you are stupid... not exactly... but you are rather ignorant on topics you seem to love to discuss.

I feel a bit like Bill discussing issues with John Larkin. Bill typically has no problem showing JL's ignorance because JL is not at all shy about proving Bill right!

Electric cars have ranges comparable with ICE cars. One huge difference is you don't need to use a filling station to charge, you can charge at home. Most drivers keep their EVs topped off by plugging in every night. So even from Miami, you can travel well north of Orlando on one charge. If you were around Orlando (which I believe you are) you can be out of the state before needing a charge.

One truck I owned had room for one 15 gallon tank, and four 30 gallon tanks. I got over 30 MPG on the highway, so it could go 4000 miles without refueling, if they were all installed.. Lets see you match that with your EV. It would carry 4400 pounds of cargo, with commercial tags.

I have no idea why you think this is something worthwhile to discuss. Only a complete idiot or a gas truck driver would want to carry 135 gal of gasoline in a vehicle. There's no point in having a 4000 mile range if gas is the only cargo!

EVs have an adequate range for most drivers. One person here recharges his car every day from a 120 volt outlet and never needs to buy gas or plug into a charger other than at home.

So instead of talking like a loon and ranting about their being NO electricity, just be prepared and leave. It's not like they don't see hurricanes coming.


Where are you exactly? I checked and Orlando is half way up the state of Florida from Miami and it's only 200 miles. I'm just not seeing the problem. I think you are exaggerating the conditions and the problems. I know people who live in southern Florida and they've never mentioned such dire circumstances lasting for "months". Sure you aren't in Puerto Rico?


I am near Ocala, if it's any of your business. You don't see the problem either because you don't want to, or because you aren't smart enough to understand. People leaving South Florida had already bought all the gas that was available there, and they were hitting every station as they headed North, Vehicles were lined up for miles South of Ocala to get into gas stations.

See, now you are explaining why an EV would be so much better than a gas car. Top off your EV at home before you leave and you can make to the pan handle or Georgia without refueling. Where's the problem?


The problem is that I have zero use for any current model EV but you just keep trying to hump my legs about them.

God! What a disgusting image. No one is humping your legs, just trying to show your ignorance of EVs. I don't mind a rational discussion where people discuss what they like or dislike about EVs, but if you are going to display your ignorance, I'm going to point it out.

That's what this discussion is about at this point, your ignorance.

They reminded me of the Mess Jimmy Carter caused when he was in office.

Are you sure that you aren't in an asylum?

I expect I am since I am spending my time trying to have a rational conversation with you.


Don't blame your faults on me. You are suffering from 'Sloman Syndrome'. You think you know more about everything than anyone else. My current vehicle is a 2016 Grand Caravan, because it was the only vehicle that I can get in and out of, without screaming in pain. Pull your head out of your ass, and grow up. I pray that you live long enough to beg for death from pain caused by failing health.

I'm sorry for your health issues, but that has nothing to do with EVs. If you had started out saying that you haven't found an EV that you can get into because of your "special" needs, I would understand that. But instead you start off babbling about how you can't escape a hurricane in an EV.

Once I left the county's hurricane shelter I had to make the trip to there, while worrying about running out of gasoline. Fuel tankers would hit town around three AM, with enough out of town vehicles lined up to take it all. Some of you have insulted me in the past for keeping Spam on hand, along with other canned goods but it beats starving to death.

Also, after Irma, the grocery stores dropped most of the lower sugar foods which makes it difficult on us diabetics.

I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps living in a part of the US that is operated like a third world country is not so good. Perhaps you should move closer to a major city where they get electricity back a lot sooner than MONTHS!

Are you sure that you're an engineer? I live in Central Florida. They have to get the system back on line from the top, down. I live in a small subdivsion, that is a mile from the nearest main primaries that run along State highway 441. The linemen work to restore power to hospitals, and emergency services first. Then they move on to large businesses. Schools and smaller businesses follow that, and finally the residential areas. It took so long because they were using the new poles as fast as they could be trucked in. The initial stockpile was gone in the first couple weeks. On top of this, most of the workers were from out of state, and unfamiliar with the areas being restored. Go out and work for a utility and learn something about the work involved. Local utilities are working on a regular basis to upgrade and harden their local plant. I can't drive very far from home without running into line trucks from Duke, or the nearest city. I've seen probably 1000 new, larger poles being set since January. They will withstand higher winds, and the heavier wire will not only withstand the higher winds, but it will reduce their I/R losses.In the 20 years that I've lived here, it was Florida Power. Then Progress, followed bu Duke.

So what makes you think that EV chargers will be the last things that have power restored? I think it will be the opposite, EV charging will be fairly high on the list. If your service stations all have generators I expect EV charging will be higher on the list that those.

Idiot! the stations will regain power as they restore power to the traffic lights. Stations on the major roads will go back on line before those on less traveled roads. The people in charge are smarter than you.

Imbecile! Chargers will get power even before that as they are part of the higher level infrastructure.


Sigh. Is there any oxygen where you live?

Sigh, is there any intelligence where you live?

If I moved to the 'big city' I would have to put up with more assholes and morons. I've only suffered long outages twice, in 32 yeas.

Lol, yes, you would have to put up with the people that make the world work. Or you can suffer. So now you are saying long outages are not such a big deal. Ok, good to know. Keep the EV charged up and you will be able to make it out of the state very easily. Enjoy your EV.


I was too sick to leave the area, and by the time the order came to either leave town or go to a shelter, the shelter was my only choice. You act like Florida has no technology. There is a Lockheed=Martin factory here, along with companies that manufacture medical equipment. Just because I don't live in the city, doesn't mean that there isn't one within 10 miles. I'll trade that for ever living and working in a large city, ever again.

No, YOU talk like Florida is a third world country. The idea that they won't have electricity to the infrastructure and larger facilities for MONTHS is absurd. If we have a CME, then yeah, electricity will be a problem because it can't be distributed.

I consider large cities third world shitholes. They are the perfect place for people like you. I'm thankful that you don't want to live anywhere near me. I used to have to rive the busiest part of the Interstate highways to get to work. You can have them. Orlando is bad enough, and I may never go back, if they don't ever finish rebuilding Interstate-4 through there. There are daily notices about new routes, new exits and backed up traffic as they widen bridges. I am old, tired and sick. Live with it, or go away.

And yet you live in a place that has no power every summer when the regular hurricanes blow through. That is real third world.

You literally know nothing about where I live. So once again you speak from ignorance completing the thread.

QED

--

Rick C.

-++ Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 4/20/19 3:58 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.

Regardless, events like this don't catch us unaware. With a fully charged EV you can get safely away easily. People just like to spread FUD about things they don't understand.

Right, hurricanes don't just pop up out of nowhere and knock the grid
out before you know what's happened in the 21st century.

AFAIK all current EVs and plug-in hybrids for sale can do a "Level 1"
fallback-fallback 120 volt 8 amp charge that more-or-less any regular
outlet connected to any home or business wiring system should be able to
support with little stress, and charge up something like a Model 3 to
full range in prolly 50 hours or so.

Even a million of them plugged in and charging at that rate in a certain
region prepping for a possible evacuation wont stress the grid.

 

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 4:47:38 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 4/20/19 3:58 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.

Regardless, events like this don't catch us unaware. With a fully charged EV you can get safely away easily. People just like to spread FUD about things they don't understand.


Right, hurricanes don't just pop up out of nowhere and knock the grid
out before you know what's happened in the 21st century.

AFAIK all current EVs and plug-in hybrids for sale can do a "Level 1"
fallback-fallback 120 volt 8 amp charge that more-or-less any regular
outlet connected to any home or business wiring system should be able to
support with little stress, and charge up something like a Model 3 to
full range in prolly 50 hours or so.

Even a million of them plugged in and charging at that rate in a certain
region prepping for a possible evacuation wont stress the grid.

About right. 120 volts, 12 amps and more like 60-70 hours if starting near zero charge. It's around 3 to 4 miles per hour of charging depending on the model of car. Model 3s are more like 4 miles per hour. So an overnight gives you around 50 miles.

Most people who have an EV install a 240 volt connection and can get a full charge overnight, just like a level 2 charger at a hotel or other facility.

Charging issues are overstated usually. In an emergency you need to be prepared just like in an ICE. Once the gas stations run out of fuel a gas car isn't going anywhere either. In many situations it will be easier to get electricity than gas.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
--

Rick C.

+++ Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Winfield Hill]

gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote...

120 volts, 12 amps ... around 3 to 4 miles per hour
of charging depending on the model of car.

My Prius Prime: 5 to 5.5 miles per hour of 12A charge.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 5:18:50 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 4:47:38 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 3:58 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.

Regardless, events like this don't catch us unaware. With a fully charged EV you can get safely away easily. People just like to spread FUD about things they don't understand.


Right, hurricanes don't just pop up out of nowhere and knock the grid
out before you know what's happened in the 21st century.

AFAIK all current EVs and plug-in hybrids for sale can do a "Level 1"
fallback-fallback 120 volt 8 amp charge that more-or-less any regular
outlet connected to any home or business wiring system should be able to
support with little stress, and charge up something like a Model 3 to
full range in prolly 50 hours or so.

Even a million of them plugged in and charging at that rate in a certain
region prepping for a possible evacuation wont stress the grid.

About right. 120 volts, 12 amps and more like 60-70 hours if starting near zero charge. It's around 3 to 4 miles per hour of charging depending on the model of car. Model 3s are more like 4 miles per hour. So an overnight gives you around 50 miles.

Most people who have an EV install a 240 volt connection and can get a full charge overnight, just like a level 2 charger at a hotel or other facility.

Charging issues are overstated usually. In an emergency you need to be prepared just like in an ICE. Once the gas stations run out of fuel a gas car isn't going anywhere either. In many situations it will be easier to get electricity than gas.

Electricity that, per your calculation takes 3 days to fully charge the car
and then it goes 175 miles. I can put gas that will do twice that into
a car in 10 minutes. They are good for a second car, but only if you have
a real car for when you need it.

 

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 4:47:38 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 4/20/19 3:58 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.

Regardless, events like this don't catch us unaware. With a fully charged EV you can get safely away easily. People just like to spread FUD about things they don't understand.


Right, hurricanes don't just pop up out of nowhere and knock the grid
out before you know what's happened in the 21st century.

AFAIK all current EVs and plug-in hybrids for sale can do a "Level 1"
fallback-fallback 120 volt 8 amp charge that more-or-less any regular
outlet connected to any home or business wiring system should be able to
support with little stress, and charge up something like a Model 3 to
full range in prolly 50 hours or so.

Even a million of them plugged in and charging at that rate in a certain
region prepping for a possible evacuation wont stress the grid.

And of course you just sit at home for two days charging it with an
approaching storm? How about the trips for supplies, to get extra
food, trips to HD, etc. An EV is good for a second car. End of story.

 

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 3:15:06 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:36:50 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 1:15:30 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 10:02:00 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:44:13 AM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 11:22:36 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 3:56:55 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 10:12:21 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
"As of June, the Chinese state subsidy for an electric car,
now worth $9,830, will be cut to around $4,100. To qualify
for any subsidy at all an electric vehicle must now have a
specified range of at least 250 miles. Over the next three
months they will also abolish local government subsidies
and channel these funds into improving the country's
charge-station infrastructure."

China has been accounting for about half the e-Car sales.


You guys are crazy about EVs, but what do you do after a major storm when the grid is down for months?

Huh? You mean like in Puerto Rico? Otherwise I haven't seen any places in the US not have electricity for MONTHS! How do you get gasoline without electricity? They bring it in 5 gal jerry cans? Again, I've never been in that situation in my life and never heard of anyone in the US being in that situation. So clearly it's not high on my list of worries.


Idiot. It is brought in by tanker trucks just like other deliveries, once the roads are clear and safe That doesn't happen until the hurricane is over.

Newer gas stations have a generator, but only big enough for the station to operate. Older stations stop receiving fuel deliveries before the electricity is out, so their tanks are empty until power is restored. The stations shut down the generators when they run out of fuel, so no lights means no fuel.


How do you evacuate half a state during a hurricane?

You mean like when I was in South Carolina wanting to register my new EV and the state closed the DMVs because of the impending Hurricane? I drove out and charged once before I left, then again when I reached Virginia.

Yawn. You left before it hit, not during or after.

Yes, that's what the smart people do. Why would anyone wait until after the hurricane to leave? I guess that explains a lot of your problem.


Even gasoline is in short supply after hurricanes, I've lived through many of them, where the only electricity available was emergency shelters and hospitals. No one is going to let you charge an EV at one of these locations, since they are unsure of replacement fuel deliveries. I have gone close to three months without electricity as thousands of poles are replaced, and downed lines are spliced. During and after Irma, the ONLY source to buy food for a month was a McDonald's that had a reefer full of food brought in ahead of time, and a large mobile generator.

Yeah, your house didn't have electricity. I bet the Superchargers had juice. It's still early days for EVs, that's true. In another three or four years there will be many, many more charging locations. If emergency shelters are the only places with electricity you have much bigger problems than worrying about a car.


What supercharges? I don't recall seeing any charging stations in this area. When there is no power to entire cites, how will you get power to your precious superchargers?

If you are evacuating you can stop at the Superchargers on your way out... like any other time when you are driving.


Sure you can. You've never seen a mass evacuation, have you? it isn't anywhere near a normal traffic load. The traffic is bumper to bumper, toll roads are turned off, and even the southbound lanes of I-75 are used for Northbound traffic. You are clueless as to the conditions involved. Add to the other problems, but South Florida is full of liberal idiots who don't make any preparations for emergencies. They are like the people who died during Katrina, trapped in their attics because the refused to leave until it was too late.



That's for sure. Anyone that thinks an electric vehicle isn't at a severe
disadvantage in that situation is in denial.

As to liberal idiots, I remember listening to Rush Limbaugh act totally
irresponsibly as a major hurricane approached FL where he lives. He
was running down the forecasters, belittling them, claiming they can't
really tell you where it's going to hit, that they make it sound much
worse than it will be, that people buying supplies and evacuating are
fools. Of course he would occasionally say, "I'm not telling you what
to do". Just before the hurricane hit, Rush evacuated. He didn't take
an electric car, he just hopped on his fueled and waiting G4. How convenient.
So I guess there are conservative idiots too.

I don't listen to Rush, but I have heard that he often uses sarcasm to get people's attention. As far as the weather forecasters, they will show over a dozen possible paths, and screech that it is Armageddon, and the 250 mile wide storm will destroy everything that it touches so they are quite hard to take seriously.

Do you actually live where hurricanes hit? I do. The multiple possible paths
are at five days, a week out. And even then, they are typically within
a cone shape of probabilities. With each passing day, the possibilities
go down, the target narrows. And about two or three days out,
the accuracy is pretty good.
Now of course if it's headed to the eastern seaboard, whether it's going
to come ashore in SC or NC may not be clear until 24 hours or so before it
hits. If you're expecting 100% accuracy 5 days out, then do what that
bloviating hypocrite Rush says, and don't take the warnings seriously.
How did that work for New Orleans? BTW, that's another Rush hypocrisy,
he blamed Ray Naggin for not taking the forecasts of the approaching
hurricane seriously, for not evacuating earlier, etc. That was a good
example of what happens when you don't take the forecasts seriously.

I've lost count of the number of 'Storm of the Century', and 'The world is ending for everyone!' It is the only time the news departments have free reign of what's broadcast, and storm coverage is as full of fake news as elections.

IDK what channel you watch, but I've never seen one saying anything close to
it's the end of the world for everyone.

 

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 3:56:44 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:36:50 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 1:15:30 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

Sure you can. You've never seen a mass evacuation, have you? it isn't anywhere near a normal traffic load. The traffic is bumper to bumper, toll roads are turned off, and even the southbound lanes of I-75 are used for Northbound traffic. You are clueless as to the conditions involved. Add to the other problems, but South Florida is full of liberal idiots who don't make any preparations for emergencies. They are like the people who died during Katrina, trapped in their attics because the refused to leave until it was too late.

That's for sure. Anyone that thinks an electric vehicle isn't at a severe
disadvantage in that situation is in denial.

You are only showing your ignorance.

I say you're just drinking your own bathwater and denying reality.


> EV charging is mostly done at home. If Mike had an EV he could be well into Georgia before he needed to charge again and there are many opportunities for that along the way. There are lots of places to charge while you stop for a meal.

Sure, and I bet planning your trip so you happen to be "someplace" to eat
while you can charge is a real advantage. Pick your food not by what you
want to eat, but by who has a fast charger. And if they don't have a fast
charger, plugging it in during a food stop ain't worth spit.


How does this typically evolve? Two days out, the forecast may be
for the hurricane to hit 200 miles from your ares. So, you're not planning
to evacuate, you're going to stay. You spend two days getting supplies
boarding up the house, making trips to HD, going to work. Who in their
right mind would want a car where they have to be concerned about how much charge it has? With a gas car, in every one of these situations I've known about or experienced, when there was plenty of warning you fill the car
up. Now I can put 100 miles, 200 miles on a gas car in the period before
it hits and still have good range.

And this isn't limited to hurricanes, which come with predictions. Next
time there is some situation in the news where people were in some unexpected
emergency, see if you'd rather be in a gas car or an electric. Somebody has
to be driven to the hospital, with no warning. With a gas car, very likely
even if the car doesn't have enough gas to make the trip, you can pull into
a gas station and in 10 mins, have a full tank. You've taken your EV for
a long trip, the battery is low. You get a call, your mother had a stroke
and is in the hospital that's 200 miles away. Would you rather have an
EV or gas? The gas car has no significant advantage?



> If he booked a hotel, there's a fair chance

That's very reassuring.


the hotel would have overnight L2 charging. A 240 volt outlet will get the same charging rate or even a 120 volt outlet will get another 50 miles over night. How far do you need to go in an evacuation?

As to liberal idiots, I remember listening to Rush Limbaugh act totally
irresponsibly as a major hurricane approached FL where he lives. He
was running down the forecasters, belittling them, claiming they can't
really tell you where it's going to hit, that they make it sound much
worse than it will be, that people buying supplies and evacuating are
fools. Of course he would occasionally say, "I'm not telling you what
to do". Just before the hurricane hit, Rush evacuated. He didn't take
an electric car, he just hopped on his fueled and waiting G4. How convenient.
So I guess there are conservative idiots too.

I read the transcript of that show. He never said a lot of what people claim he said. He mostly ranted about the price of batteries and bottled water going up which is stupid. That was at the point when it was very hard to get back down the peninsula and I'm sure they were paying a LOT for the shipping of goods.

BS. I heard it and he denigrated the forecasters, said that they never can
forecast correctly and that they just blow everything up, it doesn't turn
out to be what they forcasted, never as bad. He implied they
were all doing that to sell waters and batteries. It was totally irresponsible.
At the time officials were trying to warn people to take the proper actions
and Rush was dismissive of all of it. And then, just before it hit, fatso
got on his G4 and left. Oh and this is from the same Rush that blamed
Ray Nagin for what happened in New Orleans. Nagin was stupid, irresponsible,
it was all his fault, because he didn't take the forecast of the hurricane
seriously enough. Another example of hypocrisy.

Mostly I learned that for the most part Limbaugh never says much of anything. He rants in a way designed to stir emotions *without* actually saying anything.

That's not true either.




Not unlike Trump he refers to things that he wants you to get upset about, but doesn't say anything. He also talks in partial sentences which clearly can't actually be saying anything. Limbaugh is a master at making you think he is saying something when he isn't.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Sunday, April 21, 2019 at 5:08:21 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 3:56:44 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 2:36:50 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 1:15:30 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

Sure you can. You've never seen a mass evacuation, have you? it isn't anywhere near a normal traffic load. The traffic is bumper to bumper, toll roads are turned off, and even the southbound lanes of I-75 are used for Northbound traffic. You are clueless as to the conditions involved. Add to the other problems, but South Florida is full of liberal idiots who don't make any preparations for emergencies. They are like the people who died during Katrina, trapped in their attics because the refused to leave until it was too late.

That's for sure. Anyone that thinks an electric vehicle isn't at a severe
disadvantage in that situation is in denial.

You are only showing your ignorance.

I say you're just drinking your own bathwater and denying reality.


EV charging is mostly done at home. If Mike had an EV he could be well into Georgia before he needed to charge again and there are many opportunities for that along the way. There are lots of places to charge while you stop for a meal.

Sure, and I bet planning your trip so you happen to be "someplace" to eat
while you can charge is a real advantage. Pick your food not by what you
want to eat, but by who has a fast charger. And if they don't have a fast
charger, plugging it in during a food stop ain't worth spit.


How does this typically evolve? Two days out, the forecast may be
for the hurricane to hit 200 miles from your ares. So, you're not planning
to evacuate, you're going to stay. You spend two days getting supplies
boarding up the house, making trips to HD, going to work. Who in their
right mind would want a car where they have to be concerned about how much charge it has? With a gas car, in every one of these situations I've known about or experienced, when there was plenty of warning you fill the car
up. Now I can put 100 miles, 200 miles on a gas car in the period before
it hits and still have good range.

You can make of any absurd scenario you wish. I'm sure anyone can make up situations that are worst case for many things. Whatever.

I charge my car, I drive my car. It works just fine. Actually, better than fine. Now that I am driving a good car and stop every three or so hours, I am much more rested and comfortable when I get to where I'm going. Sitting in the same seat for eight hours with few and short breaks is no way to drive long distances.

And this isn't limited to hurricanes, which come with predictions. Next
time there is some situation in the news where people were in some unexpected
emergency, see if you'd rather be in a gas car or an electric. Somebody has
to be driven to the hospital, with no warning. With a gas car, very likely
even if the car doesn't have enough gas to make the trip, you can pull into
a gas station and in 10 mins, have a full tank. You've taken your EV for
a long trip, the battery is low. You get a call, your mother had a stroke
and is in the hospital that's 200 miles away. Would you rather have an
EV or gas? The gas car has no significant advantage?

Why would my battery be low? I usually charge before reaching home on trips. I like to pull into my driveway with at least 200 miles on the range. That's why I don't often need to charge my car for three days after reaching home.

If I got such a call I would get there fine and if it were a bit over 200 miles I would stop and get a 10 minute charge to make sure I reach my destination, not unlike stopping for gas.

This is why I say you are ignorant of EVs... because you are. You do understand what "ignorant" means, right? It means you don't know something. You don't know much about EVs.

If he booked a hotel, there's a fair chance

That's very reassuring.


the hotel would have overnight L2 charging. A 240 volt outlet will get the same charging rate or even a 120 volt outlet will get another 50 miles over night. How far do you need to go in an evacuation?


As to liberal idiots, I remember listening to Rush Limbaugh act totally
irresponsibly as a major hurricane approached FL where he lives. He
was running down the forecasters, belittling them, claiming they can't
really tell you where it's going to hit, that they make it sound much
worse than it will be, that people buying supplies and evacuating are
fools. Of course he would occasionally say, "I'm not telling you what
to do". Just before the hurricane hit, Rush evacuated. He didn't take
an electric car, he just hopped on his fueled and waiting G4. How convenient.
So I guess there are conservative idiots too.

I read the transcript of that show. He never said a lot of what people claim he said. He mostly ranted about the price of batteries and bottled water going up which is stupid. That was at the point when it was very hard to get back down the peninsula and I'm sure they were paying a LOT for the shipping of goods.

BS. I heard it and he denigrated the forecasters, said that they never can
forecast correctly and that they just blow everything up, it doesn't turn
out to be what they forcasted, never as bad. He implied they
were all doing that to sell waters and batteries. It was totally irresponsible.
At the time officials were trying to warn people to take the proper actions
and Rush was dismissive of all of it. And then, just before it hit, fatso
got on his G4 and left. Oh and this is from the same Rush that blamed
Ray Nagin for what happened in New Orleans. Nagin was stupid, irresponsible,
it was all his fault, because he didn't take the forecast of the hurricane
seriously enough. Another example of hypocrisy.

You listened to the broadcast I take it? Read the transcript. Like Yogi Berra, Rush "really didn’t say everything I said." Next time don't get so worked up and listen.

--

Rick C.

--+- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Sunday, April 21, 2019 at 4:31:27 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 5:18:50 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 4:47:38 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 3:58 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.

Regardless, events like this don't catch us unaware. With a fully charged EV you can get safely away easily. People just like to spread FUD about things they don't understand.


Right, hurricanes don't just pop up out of nowhere and knock the grid
out before you know what's happened in the 21st century.

AFAIK all current EVs and plug-in hybrids for sale can do a "Level 1"
fallback-fallback 120 volt 8 amp charge that more-or-less any regular
outlet connected to any home or business wiring system should be able to
support with little stress, and charge up something like a Model 3 to
full range in prolly 50 hours or so.

Even a million of them plugged in and charging at that rate in a certain
region prepping for a possible evacuation wont stress the grid.

About right. 120 volts, 12 amps and more like 60-70 hours if starting near zero charge. It's around 3 to 4 miles per hour of charging depending on the model of car. Model 3s are more like 4 miles per hour. So an overnight gives you around 50 miles.

Most people who have an EV install a 240 volt connection and can get a full charge overnight, just like a level 2 charger at a hotel or other facility.

Charging issues are overstated usually. In an emergency you need to be prepared just like in an ICE. Once the gas stations run out of fuel a gas car isn't going anywhere either. In many situations it will be easier to get electricity than gas.


Electricity that, per your calculation takes 3 days to fully charge the car
and then it goes 175 miles. I can put gas that will do twice that into
a car in 10 minutes. They are good for a second car, but only if you have
a real car for when you need it.

Your math is faulty. Again, perhaps you should just not live in an area prone to evacuations.

--

Rick C.

---+ Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Sunday, April 21, 2019 at 4:27:38 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 4:47:38 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 3:58 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.

Regardless, events like this don't catch us unaware. With a fully charged EV you can get safely away easily. People just like to spread FUD about things they don't understand.


Right, hurricanes don't just pop up out of nowhere and knock the grid
out before you know what's happened in the 21st century.

AFAIK all current EVs and plug-in hybrids for sale can do a "Level 1"
fallback-fallback 120 volt 8 amp charge that more-or-less any regular
outlet connected to any home or business wiring system should be able to
support with little stress, and charge up something like a Model 3 to
full range in prolly 50 hours or so.

Even a million of them plugged in and charging at that rate in a certain
region prepping for a possible evacuation wont stress the grid.

And of course you just sit at home for two days charging it with an
approaching storm? How about the trips for supplies, to get extra
food, trips to HD, etc. An EV is good for a second car. End of story.

Why would you need to charge for two days? Did you forget to plug it in the last time you used it??? What is wrong with you? Only an idiot would live in an area where you would need to evacuate on short notice and not keep your car charged. Jeez. You had better move out of the area before you forget to evacuate all together.

--

Rick C.

---- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 4/21/19 4:31 PM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 5:18:50 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 4:47:38 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 3:58 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.

Regardless, events like this don't catch us unaware. With a fully charged EV you can get safely away easily. People just like to spread FUD about things they don't understand.


Right, hurricanes don't just pop up out of nowhere and knock the grid
out before you know what's happened in the 21st century.

AFAIK all current EVs and plug-in hybrids for sale can do a "Level 1"
fallback-fallback 120 volt 8 amp charge that more-or-less any regular
outlet connected to any home or business wiring system should be able to
support with little stress, and charge up something like a Model 3 to
full range in prolly 50 hours or so.

Even a million of them plugged in and charging at that rate in a certain
region prepping for a possible evacuation wont stress the grid.

About right. 120 volts, 12 amps and more like 60-70 hours if starting near zero charge. It's around 3 to 4 miles per hour of charging depending on the model of car. Model 3s are more like 4 miles per hour. So an overnight gives you around 50 miles.

Most people who have an EV install a 240 volt connection and can get a full charge overnight, just like a level 2 charger at a hotel or other facility.

Charging issues are overstated usually. In an emergency you need to be prepared just like in an ICE. Once the gas stations run out of fuel a gas car isn't going anywhere either. In many situations it will be easier to get electricity than gas.


Electricity that, per your calculation takes 3 days to fully charge the car
and then it goes 175 miles. I can put gas that will do twice that into
a car in 10 minutes. They are good for a second car, but only if you have
a real car for when you need it.

3 days in an absolute worst case situation where your battery is totally
flat and all you can find is a 120 volt outlet and you learn that a
hurricane is approaching with only 3 days notice because....??????

 

On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 12:16:13 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, April 21, 2019 at 4:31:27 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 5:18:50 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 20, 2019 at 4:47:38 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 4/20/19 3:58 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

Longest was in 1985 during Hurricane Gloria, about three days, I have a
vague memory of it. The most recent was last April after an unusually
strong late season noreaster with 90 mph wind gusts, it was out for just
a little more maybe 26 hrs.

The grid around here seems to be pretty well-maintained and even large
blizzards have trouble knocking it out for any significant length of time.

Regardless, events like this don't catch us unaware. With a fully charged EV you can get safely away easily. People just like to spread FUD about things they don't understand.


Right, hurricanes don't just pop up out of nowhere and knock the grid
out before you know what's happened in the 21st century.

AFAIK all current EVs and plug-in hybrids for sale can do a "Level 1"
fallback-fallback 120 volt 8 amp charge that more-or-less any regular
outlet connected to any home or business wiring system should be able to
support with little stress, and charge up something like a Model 3 to
full range in prolly 50 hours or so.

Even a million of them plugged in and charging at that rate in a certain
region prepping for a possible evacuation wont stress the grid.

About right. 120 volts, 12 amps and more like 60-70 hours if starting near zero charge. It's around 3 to 4 miles per hour of charging depending on the model of car. Model 3s are more like 4 miles per hour. So an overnight gives you around 50 miles.

Most people who have an EV install a 240 volt connection and can get a full charge overnight, just like a level 2 charger at a hotel or other facility.

Charging issues are overstated usually. In an emergency you need to be prepared just like in an ICE. Once the gas stations run out of fuel a gas car isn't going anywhere either. In many situations it will be easier to get electricity than gas.


Electricity that, per your calculation takes 3 days to fully charge the car
and then it goes 175 miles. I can put gas that will do twice that into
a car in 10 minutes. They are good for a second car, but only if you have
a real car for when you need it.

Your math is faulty. Again, perhaps you should just not live in an area prone to evacuations.

It's not my math, it's YOURS. You posted this, or did someone hack
your account?


"About right. 120 volts, 12 amps and more like 60-70 hours if starting near zero charge."


Evacuations are not the only issue. Any incident where you need to drive
your car somewhere UNEXPECTEDLY is a potential problem. Your wife has
an accident, your EV isn't charged. You get a call that your vacation
house has a water leak in the basement. You have a rental property,
renters are there and they say there is a problem. Your mother just
had a heart attack. In all of those, with a gas car, even if the tank
is near empty, I just get in it, start out and I can have it full in
10 mins and I have an unlimited limited range. If you rely on only
an EV, in any of those
situations, you're at a big disadvantage. And if you're away from
home when that happens, 125 miles off to nowhere, it all just gets worse.