OT: CEO responses to Covid-19

[John S]

On 3/15/2020 7:54 AM, David Brown wrote:

On 14/03/2020 23:49, John S wrote:
On 3/14/2020 10:50 AM, David Brown wrote:
On 14/03/2020 13:46, John S wrote:
On 3/13/2020 8:54 AM, David Brown wrote:
On 13/03/2020 06:45, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 12:46:28 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

* Excuse me, but doesn't it spread in the air?

You are excused.

While droplets containing the virus can be spread through the air,
the means of picking up the droplets is most often by touching
something and then touching your mucous membranes, eyes, nose, mouth.
The droplets can remain airborne for some time, but on a surface the
virus can live for many hours or even some days.  Droplets aren't
going to remain airborne nearly that long.

There isn't much you can do about breathing.  But you can wash your
hands and try not to touch your face until you have washed.  There
are no guarantees in life, but you can play the smart odds.


That is all good advice.

It applies equally to normal flu, and most other viruses - the path is
mainly cough/sneeze droplets to surface, then surface to face.

It's worth noting that most people don't know how to wash their hands
properly to minimise the risk of giving or getting an infection.

And as you noted, an alcohol wipe is of little use - you want 30
seconds
of wet alcohol to deactivate the virus.  (If the virus is protected by
sneeze droplets or other mucus, it takes minutes - but one would
hope it
is obvious that you should at least wipe globs of phlegm from your
hands
if you can't wash them.)  Washing is more effective than alcohol
sanitizers for your hands, when possible.

Disinfectant on surfaces is fine.


(Some viruses, such as noroviruses, are almost completely
unaffected by
alcohol, so washing is good general practice.)


What about hydrogen peroxide rather than alcohol?

A little hydrogen peroxide is a good idea - hand sanitizer usually
has about 3% of it.  (Too much is not good for your skin.)  But
still, washing with soap and water is generally best when possible.


Yes. I use it on my cutting board after a soap and water wipe. The
cutting board is 75 x 54 cm.


My solution is not to have food that has a high risk of pathogens.  And
if you are cutting something like chicken that might have salmonella,
use a plastic cutting board and put it in the dishwasher.  Disinfectants
are unnecessary in normal home use.



Also, I have a germicidal UV-C lamp which I use on certain items
(mail, for example). Comment?

Sure, use it on items that might be infected (you have to be quite
paranoid to use it on your mail) - UV is commonly used for
sterilising medical equipment.  Don't try it on your hands, however -
you'll kill your skin cells before you destroy any virus particles.

Mail was only an example. I do not use it anywhere on my body. My
dermatologist tells me to stay out of the sun. I take vitamin D instead.

Because of the cost of drugs here, I have an occasional package of drugs
delivered from Turkey. The next package will receive a thorough dose of
UV-C.

Unless you have some serious medical condition resulting in a poor
immune system, you don't need to use it on /anything/.

My immune system is 78 years old. I had asthma in my younger days
(probably caused by my parents' smoking). And then I picked up smoking.
I stopped over 20 years ago. However, there is something the doctors do
not like at the lower end of one lung. I am at risk. I will try to do
every thing I can to avoid all viruses. I get the seasonal flu virus
shot every year. I have the latest pneumonia shot. But, I am still at
risk, I know.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 15/03/20 12:54, David Brown wrote:

On 14/03/2020 23:49, John S wrote:
On 3/14/2020 10:50 AM, David Brown wrote:
On 14/03/2020 13:46, John S wrote:
On 3/13/2020 8:54 AM, David Brown wrote:
On 13/03/2020 06:45, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 12:46:28 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

* Excuse me, but doesn't it spread in the air?

You are excused.

While droplets containing the virus can be spread through the air,
the means of picking up the droplets is most often by touching
something and then touching your mucous membranes, eyes, nose, mouth.
The droplets can remain airborne for some time, but on a surface the
virus can live for many hours or even some days.  Droplets aren't
going to remain airborne nearly that long.

There isn't much you can do about breathing.  But you can wash your
hands and try not to touch your face until you have washed.  There
are no guarantees in life, but you can play the smart odds.


That is all good advice.

It applies equally to normal flu, and most other viruses - the path is
mainly cough/sneeze droplets to surface, then surface to face.

It's worth noting that most people don't know how to wash their hands
properly to minimise the risk of giving or getting an infection.

And as you noted, an alcohol wipe is of little use - you want 30 seconds
of wet alcohol to deactivate the virus.  (If the virus is protected by
sneeze droplets or other mucus, it takes minutes - but one would hope it
is obvious that you should at least wipe globs of phlegm from your hands
if you can't wash them.)  Washing is more effective than alcohol
sanitizers for your hands, when possible.

Disinfectant on surfaces is fine.


(Some viruses, such as noroviruses, are almost completely unaffected by
alcohol, so washing is good general practice.)


What about hydrogen peroxide rather than alcohol?

A little hydrogen peroxide is a good idea - hand sanitizer usually has about
3% of it.  (Too much is not good for your skin.)  But still, washing with
soap and water is generally best when possible.


Yes. I use it on my cutting board after a soap and water wipe. The cutting
board is 75 x 54 cm.


My solution is not to have food that has a high risk of pathogens.  And if you
are cutting something like chicken that might have salmonella, use a plastic
cutting board and put it in the dishwasher.  Disinfectants are unnecessary in
normal home use.

Don't forget that there in the US is a noticeably higher rate of
chicken-based food poisoning than in the UK.

The US allows chicken to be washed in chlorine, which could be
beneficial in two ways:
1) to reduce the pathogens reaching the consumer
2) to reduce production costs

Guess which the US producers have chosen.

 

On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 15:26:38 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 4:22:18 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On 12 Mar 2020 19:16:05 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

Today I got emails from the CEOs of three companies
about their actions to protect us against Covid-19.
Walmart said their stores are cleaned daily, with
sanitizing solutions. Subway said they're cleaning
most-touched surfaces once per hour. A local pub-
restaurant, Tavern in the Square, uses disinfectant
wipes to clean and sanitize all tables, phones, POS-
screens, check presenters, booths, chairs and menus
in between guest's seatings. Plus five other items.

Nuclear extinction. Nuclear winter. Global cooling. Global warming.
Sea level rise. Ozone hole. The Population Bomb. Y2K. Ebola. SARS.
MERS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoryoomsday_scenarios

This sort of thing is ever popular.

We just went to Safeway for our usually quiet Saturday morning
shopping. It was jammed. Nowhere to park, no carts. Shelves stripped
in no logical pattern. Huge checkout lines full of overloaded carts.
Who needs six boxes of Pancko and two gallons of vodka?

No edamame or frozen peas. No tater tots. No baking chocolate. Hardly
any coffee or ice cream.

The aisles are stacked with toilet paper, and some people are filling
their carts with toilet paper. But, oddly, no run on kleenex, which
I'd think you'd want if you got flu.

The thing about panic buying, is that people will take all that stuff
home and have to stash it somewhere. Then the supplier surge will show
up.

I could start a rumor about sweet pickles or blue corn chips or
something.

Speaking of rumors, I heard the Wuhan flu's gonna cause a
critical shortage of picosecond timing generators. I'm
urging everyone I see to stock up on picosecond timing
generators (and laser pulsers) now while they can, before
it's too late...

Cheers,
James Arthur

A more serious problem is garlic. There is no garlic to be had.

But there are lots of oranges.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[John S]

On 3/15/2020 7:54 AM, David Brown wrote:

On 14/03/2020 23:49, John S wrote:
On 3/14/2020 10:50 AM, David Brown wrote:
On 14/03/2020 13:46, John S wrote:
On 3/13/2020 8:54 AM, David Brown wrote:
On 13/03/2020 06:45, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 12:46:28 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

* Excuse me, but doesn't it spread in the air?

You are excused.

While droplets containing the virus can be spread through the air,
the means of picking up the droplets is most often by touching
something and then touching your mucous membranes, eyes, nose, mouth.
The droplets can remain airborne for some time, but on a surface the
virus can live for many hours or even some days.  Droplets aren't
going to remain airborne nearly that long.

There isn't much you can do about breathing.  But you can wash your
hands and try not to touch your face until you have washed.  There
are no guarantees in life, but you can play the smart odds.


That is all good advice.

It applies equally to normal flu, and most other viruses - the path is
mainly cough/sneeze droplets to surface, then surface to face.

It's worth noting that most people don't know how to wash their hands
properly to minimise the risk of giving or getting an infection.

And as you noted, an alcohol wipe is of little use - you want 30
seconds
of wet alcohol to deactivate the virus.  (If the virus is protected by
sneeze droplets or other mucus, it takes minutes - but one would
hope it
is obvious that you should at least wipe globs of phlegm from your
hands
if you can't wash them.)  Washing is more effective than alcohol
sanitizers for your hands, when possible.

Disinfectant on surfaces is fine.


(Some viruses, such as noroviruses, are almost completely
unaffected by
alcohol, so washing is good general practice.)


What about hydrogen peroxide rather than alcohol?

A little hydrogen peroxide is a good idea - hand sanitizer usually
has about 3% of it.  (Too much is not good for your skin.)  But
still, washing with soap and water is generally best when possible.


Yes. I use it on my cutting board after a soap and water wipe. The
cutting board is 75 x 54 cm.


My solution is not to have food that has a high risk of pathogens.  And
if you are cutting something like chicken that might have salmonella,
use a plastic cutting board and put it in the dishwasher.  Disinfectants
are unnecessary in normal home use.



Also, I have a germicidal UV-C lamp which I use on certain items
(mail, for example). Comment?

Sure, use it on items that might be infected (you have to be quite
paranoid to use it on your mail) - UV is commonly used for
sterilising medical equipment.  Don't try it on your hands, however -
you'll kill your skin cells before you destroy any virus particles.

Mail was only an example. I do not use it anywhere on my body. My
dermatologist tells me to stay out of the sun. I take vitamin D instead.

Unless you have some serious medical condition resulting in a poor
immune system, you don't need to use it on /anything/.

Good advice. Thank you.

 

[John S]

On 3/14/2020 6:31 PM, mpm wrote:

Something to consider:

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

You mean like polio?

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:01:12 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:


No tater-tots!!!?
What will become of us?

The vodka and garlic situation is a different story, however.
Running out of either one of those could be the downfall of civilization as we know it!

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:15:28 AM UTC-4, John S wrote:

On 3/14/2020 6:31 PM, mpm wrote:
Something to consider:

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."


You mean like polio?

TouchĂŠ.
How about this one, then:

"When the going gets tough, the weak get screwed."

 

[John S]

On 3/15/2020 12:19 PM, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:06:01 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I wonder, if a random group of people were exposed to this virus, how
many would actually get infected?

An even better question might be:
If a random group of people were exposed to this virus and became infected, how many of them would actually use the items they purchased in the pre-infection panic?

Where I live, Publix is one of the main grocery stores.

We stopped by last night for ice.
(That fuckin' Whirlpool piece of shit fridge isn't working - again, but that's another story for another time.)

Well guess what? All the Publix stores are now closing at 8PM due to the Coronavirus. All in the name of "safety".

So, I guess it's more safe to open the store for fewer hours, resulting in higher concentrations of shoppers when the doors are actually open. Genius!!

Personally, I think it's just more corporate virtue-signaling bullshit.
The illusion of safety, but no actual safety.
Just doing their part, which amounts to nothing.

Link: https://ww4.publix.com/pages/publix-storm-basics/publix-store-status

I have not looked at your link, but my closest Walmart has changed its
hours short of the 24 hours they usually remain open. They say they are
disinfecting the store over night. That is plausible.

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:06:01 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I wonder, if a random group of people were exposed to this virus, how
many would actually get infected?

An even better question might be:
If a random group of people were exposed to this virus and became infected, how many of them would actually use the items they purchased in the pre-infection panic?

Where I live, Publix is one of the main grocery stores.

We stopped by last night for ice.
(That fuckin' Whirlpool piece of shit fridge isn't working - again, but that's another story for another time.)

Well guess what? All the Publix stores are now closing at 8PM due to the Coronavirus. All in the name of "safety".

So, I guess it's more safe to open the store for fewer hours, resulting in higher concentrations of shoppers when the doors are actually open. Genius!!

Personally, I think it's just more corporate virtue-signaling bullshit.
The illusion of safety, but no actual safety.
Just doing their part, which amounts to nothing.

Link: https://ww4.publix.com/pages/publix-storm-basics/publix-store-status

 

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 08:30:56 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:01:12 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:


No tater-tots!!!?
What will become of us?

The vodka and garlic situation is a different story, however.
Running out of either one of those could be the downfall of civilization as we know it!

Mo went to Safeway at 8AM, and it's usually deserted on a Sunday
morning. It was packed with panic buyers. She just got a couple of
things they didn't have yesterday, like frozen veggies for the parrot.

It was well restocked overnight, but emptying out fast again.

I wonder, if a random group of people were exposed to this virus, how
many would actually get infected? I suspect it would be a minority of
the population. If it is very infectuous, but not everyone is
suceptable, the dynamics could be very different from predictions.

Any population has to maintain enough genetic diversity that no single
pathogen can wipe it entirely out.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:20:05 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:06:01 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I wonder, if a random group of people were exposed to this virus, how
many would actually get infected?

An even better question might be:
If a random group of people were exposed to this virus and became infected, how many of them would actually use the items they purchased in the pre-infection panic?

Where I live, Publix is one of the main grocery stores.

We stopped by last night for ice.
(That fuckin' Whirlpool piece of shit fridge isn't working - again, but that's another story for another time.)

Well guess what? All the Publix stores are now closing at 8PM due to the Coronavirus. All in the name of "safety".

So, I guess it's more safe to open the store for fewer hours, resulting in higher concentrations of shoppers when the doors are actually open. Genius!!

Personally, I think it's just more corporate virtue-signaling bullshit.
The illusion of safety, but no actual safety.
Just doing their part, which amounts to nothing.

Link: https://ww4.publix.com/pages/publix-storm-basics/publix-store-status

"give our store teams time to conduct additional preventive sanitation and restock product on shelves."

Can't you read? What is this idea of "virtue-signaling bullshit"? Sounds like one of your fantasies. They need more time to do more cleaning and more time to restock the shelves since they are handling more inventory. They also probably are thinking of their employees too. Why expose their stockers to the general public when they don't need to?

Why do you immediately jump into irrational thinking mode?

--

Rick C.

++-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:06:01 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 08:30:56 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com
wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:01:12 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:


No tater-tots!!!?
What will become of us?

The vodka and garlic situation is a different story, however.
Running out of either one of those could be the downfall of civilization as we know it!

Mo went to Safeway at 8AM, and it's usually deserted on a Sunday
morning. It was packed with panic buyers. She just got a couple of
things they didn't have yesterday, like frozen veggies for the parrot.

It was well restocked overnight, but emptying out fast again.

I wonder, if a random group of people were exposed to this virus, how
many would actually get infected? I suspect it would be a minority of
the population. If it is very infectuous, but not everyone is
suceptable, the dynamics could be very different from predictions.

Any population has to maintain enough genetic diversity that no single
pathogen can wipe it entirely out.

Sounds great in theory, but how does the population know which genes to diversify to maintain the species?

No one it expecting COVID-19 to wipe out the human race or even come close. Unlike with the Spanish flu it would be nice if we didn't infect a third of the world population.

I went to the supermarket today for crackers and cereal. It was much busier than usual, but no panic and only a few things were out. Oddly enough organic bananas were out while regular ones were not. I expect they both were out yesterday and the regular bananas got restocked and the organic bananas didn't. I realized I was down to my last banana, so I picked up a few of those too. Ice cream I like wasn't on sale, so I didn't get any.

--

Rick C.

+-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:31:03 AM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:01:12 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:


No tater-tots!!!?
What will become of us?

The vodka and garlic situation is a different story, however.
Running out of either one of those could be the downfall of civilization as we know it!

I have a private stock of garlic. Vodka is just the backup for when the bourbon runs out. Running out of bourbon takes a long time.

--

Rick C.

+-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John S]

On 3/15/2020 10:35 AM, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:15:28 AM UTC-4, John S wrote:
On 3/14/2020 6:31 PM, mpm wrote:
Something to consider:

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."


You mean like polio?

TouchĂŠ.
How about this one, then:

"When the going gets tough, the weak get screwed."

Your first phrase is a good statement. Actually, I agree with you in
general. But there are some circumstances where it does not apply. That
was my only point.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2020-03-15 19:06, Rick C wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:06:01 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
[...]

Any population has to maintain enough genetic diversity that no single
pathogen can wipe it entirely out.

Sounds great in theory, but how does the population know which genes to diversify to maintain the species?
[...]

Weird question, the mark of a profound misunderstanding. There is
no purpose in diversity. Some variants might work, many might not.
If a species is confronted with some pathogen and has no variants
that can survive it, it goes extinct.

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 3:20:03 PM UTC-4, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

On 2020-03-15 19:06, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:06:01 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
[...]

Any population has to maintain enough genetic diversity that no single
pathogen can wipe it entirely out.

Sounds great in theory, but how does the population know which genes to diversify to maintain the species?
[...]

Weird question, the mark of a profound misunderstanding. There is
no purpose in diversity. Some variants might work, many might not.
If a species is confronted with some pathogen and has no variants
that can survive it, it goes extinct.

Yes, exactly. At any time a species can go extinct and they do. The only way genetic diversity can be selected for is when there are regular challenges to the survival of a species. As soon as a pathogen or other extinction level threat is involved, the result is a lower genetic diversity which is counter to further challenges.

Genetic diversity isn't "maintained". It happens as a result of mutations which are always happening. Most mutations result in a lower survival rate and cease to exist. Some have minimal negative impact and continue to exist. The diversity exists because of mutations. The end result is that often the diversity allows the species to survive pathogens. The diversity didn't exist in order to survive pathogens. It just exists from natural causes but allows a population to survive some otherwise extinction causing events.

--

Rick C.

++-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 2:11:03 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

Can't you read? What is this idea of "virtue-signaling bullshit"? Sounds like one of your fantasies. They need more time to do more cleaning and more time to restock the shelves since they are handling more inventory. They also probably are thinking of their employees too. Why expose their stockers to the general public when they don't need to?

Why do you immediately jump into irrational thinking mode?

Oh, I'm sorry Ric - I didn't give you the full details.
It was 8:20 PM Saturday night. The store closed at 8 PM.

There were (4) cars in the parking lot, including ours.
The store is roughly 35,000 square feet.

What do you think the odds are that those remaining three cars belonged to employees who were sufficiently equipped and trained to not only disinfect (in any meaningful way) 35,000 square feet of public space, but to re-stock the shelves too?

Or, it is more likely the whole staff just got a (possibly paid) early time off, with little or no notice, and little or no planning to go with it?

My niece works at Publix in another city. I'll ask her if she knows more.

But to finish the story, went to the nearby Walmart for ice.
Out front, they had a battery-operated hand-gel dispenser.
Dead batteries (most likely?), or for whatever reason, was not working.

Again: The appearance of "doing something", but with no ACTUAL benefit.

And look, I realize my two isolated comments don't amount to anything.
But human nature, such that it is, is that people feel better when they think something is being done, even when it isn't. (Sort of like airport security - don't get me started.)

Publix may even think closing early helps - and maybe some paid expert told them so? But I didn't get any impression whatsoever they were cleaning the store any more than usual, and/or re-stocking. Though I did not go there today to check.

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 8:08:02 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 19:21:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 1:22:18 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Nuclear extinction. Nuclear winter. Global cooling. Global warming.
Sea level rise. Ozone hole. The Population Bomb. Y2K. Ebola. SARS.
MERS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoryoomsday_scenarios

This sort of thing is ever popular.

Not popular; vitally important. We live and die by our collective ability to
handle these (and other) plausible scenarios.

The key phrase here is "plausible."

Key to what? The 'global cooling', unless it refers to nuclear winter, is the
only implausible item in the list.

> I suppose panic is a sort of herd survival mechanism,

Dubious. Panic is an adrenaline response, stimulating an
individual to a burst of activity. In any case, panic is NOT what's happening
here and now, that's a straw-man.

Most people are afraid. Fear is an energy gradient that, as it builds,
any random concept can exploit.

Most people can feel the full range of human emotions. Why would you think
otherwise? What makes you think fear has random precursors? In any case,
some effective controls are being applied against the current pandemic, for good
and sufficient reasons (Italy is seeing a death every five minutes), and
the real problem here isn't fear, it isn't panic, it's a new disease: COVID-19.

 

[John Robertson]

On 2020/03/15 5:56 a.m., dcaster@krl.org wrote:

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 9:58:18 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 8:30:44 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 7:48:00 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:


Hopefully here in the US, they will treat ALL infirmed by it.

the issue is whether there is the capacity to do that if it spread too fast

My guess is that capacity is not going to be a problem. There is a lot of excess capacity right now and the percentage of cases that require hospitalization is small. There may be problems with matching patients and beds

There is zero reason to think there is much excess hospital capacity in the US any more than there was in China. They actually built entirely new medical centers just for this outbreak. It is amazing they could move so quickly. I doubt the US can do anything like that and I'm pretty sure we will need to do that in a few months.

In the US this infection has not quite taken off like a rocket, but while China has reduced the number of new cases per day to low double digits, in the rest of the world infections are growing exponentially. The US seems to be no small part of that.

There is literally no reason to think the US will be able too provide any sort of care for the majority of victims of this disease.


We shall see. There are a number of reasons why the number of people infected is going to decrease.

Dan

And lots of real reasons why it is not going to decrease any time soon:

https://blog.sprucehealth.com/a-tale-of-two-death-rates-how-south-korea-and-italy-predict-our-covid-19-future/

Social distancing seems to be the best defense the US now has to reduce
the impact of this disease, to try to flatten the bell curve to a level
that hospitals and the health care system can keep up with it.

Too late for containment.

Best to take personal care by washing your hands, and not touching your
face... and the latter is a HARD habit to break!

John

 

[David Brown]

On 15/03/2020 16:02, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 15/03/20 12:54, David Brown wrote:
On 14/03/2020 23:49, John S wrote:
On 3/14/2020 10:50 AM, David Brown wrote:
On 14/03/2020 13:46, John S wrote:
On 3/13/2020 8:54 AM, David Brown wrote:
On 13/03/2020 06:45, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 12:46:28 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

* Excuse me, but doesn't it spread in the air?

You are excused.

While droplets containing the virus can be spread through the air,
the means of picking up the droplets is most often by touching
something and then touching your mucous membranes, eyes, nose,
mouth.
The droplets can remain airborne for some time, but on a surface the
virus can live for many hours or even some days.  Droplets aren't
going to remain airborne nearly that long.

There isn't much you can do about breathing.  But you can wash your
hands and try not to touch your face until you have washed.  There
are no guarantees in life, but you can play the smart odds.


That is all good advice.

It applies equally to normal flu, and most other viruses - the
path is
mainly cough/sneeze droplets to surface, then surface to face.

It's worth noting that most people don't know how to wash their hands
properly to minimise the risk of giving or getting an infection.

And as you noted, an alcohol wipe is of little use - you want 30
seconds
of wet alcohol to deactivate the virus.  (If the virus is
protected by
sneeze droplets or other mucus, it takes minutes - but one would
hope it
is obvious that you should at least wipe globs of phlegm from your
hands
if you can't wash them.)  Washing is more effective than alcohol
sanitizers for your hands, when possible.

Disinfectant on surfaces is fine.


(Some viruses, such as noroviruses, are almost completely
unaffected by
alcohol, so washing is good general practice.)


What about hydrogen peroxide rather than alcohol?

A little hydrogen peroxide is a good idea - hand sanitizer usually
has about 3% of it.  (Too much is not good for your skin.)  But
still, washing with soap and water is generally best when possible.


Yes. I use it on my cutting board after a soap and water wipe. The
cutting board is 75 x 54 cm.


My solution is not to have food that has a high risk of pathogens.
And if you are cutting something like chicken that might have
salmonella, use a plastic cutting board and put it in the dishwasher.
Disinfectants are unnecessary in normal home use.

Don't forget that there in the US is a noticeably higher rate of
chicken-based food poisoning than in the UK.

And the UK has a noticeably higher rate than here in Norway.

Wherever you are, use a cutting board that can go in the dishwasher.
That's how you ensure there are no bacteria left on the board. And wash
your hands, so there are no bacteria left on your hands. And cook the
chicken properly, killing those that are in it. At no point is either
hydrogen peroxide or UVC a sensible treatment.

The US allows chicken to be washed in chlorine, which could be
beneficial in two ways:
 1) to reduce the pathogens reaching the consumer
 2) to reduce production costs

Guess which the US producers have chosen.