OT: CEO responses to Covid-19

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:55:26 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
> What bugs me is that all of the Supermarkets around here have dropped most or all of their low sugar and no sugar added foods, following Hurricane Irma. I have asked the managers why, but they look me in the eyes and tell me that they haven't dropped anything.

And THAT is the level of consciousness we're dealing with!
The historical stocking level of any item in the store ought to be a verifiable FACT.

Honestly, for specialty foods like that (not that's low-sugar foods are particularly special), I would just order online. (Something you're probably already doing anyway.)

But I can feel the frustration of having to deal with clueless store managers.
I suspect they don't get paid very well, expect for the top-dog, or someone with a lot of tenure. And even then... For a store like a Walmart, I would suspect they have everything pre-planned out, and all the store "manager" really "needs" is a pulse.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 8:50:58 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 20:19:58 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2020-03-15 19:06, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:06:01 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
[...]

Any population has to maintain enough genetic diversity that no single
pathogen can wipe it entirely out.

Sounds great in theory, but how does the population know which genes to diversify to maintain the species?
[...]

Weird question, the mark of a profound misunderstanding. There is
no purpose in diversity. Some variants might work, many might not.
If a species is confronted with some pathogen and has no variants
that can survive it, it goes extinct.

Right. It's impressive how many people don't believe in evolution.

John Larkin may believe in it, but he hasn't got a clue what it does or how it works, and what he is complaining about is the way other people fail to share his defective understand of the process.

Natural selection doesn't just cull individuals; it culls entire
species.

One individual at a time. Since the concept of a species isn't all that precise, this is the point to keep in mind - if you have mind to keep it in.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:02:07 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:53:55 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

Rick,

I realize you are just a blowhard asshole.

I understand completely the sort of person you are. That's why I often just don't even reply to your posts. It seldom results in any useful dialog.

I have tried to discuss this with you, but you seem to be bent on an argument. But the main issue is you just want to bitch about something. It seems to not really matter what. You clearly just like to bitch. Walmart has a broken hand cleaner dispenser???!!! Really? That's the basis of your current manifesto?

Ok, have at it. I won't bother you any further.

--

Rick C.

--+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:39:46 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:44:09 PM UTC-4, John S wrote:

I have not looked at your link, but my closest Walmart has changed its
hours short of the 24 hours they usually remain open. They say they are
disinfecting the store over night. That is plausible.

Sam's Club has also reduced heir hours to allow more time to clean and sanitize their stores.

Exactly !!!
So let me ask you Mike, if the have to close the "24 hour" stores in order to sanitize them, how were they doing the sanitizing before?!

What changed? (And if anything did change, was it meaningful?)

My (albeit cynical) belief, is they are probably wiping down surfaces in the same haphazard way, using the same haphazard ad-hoc methods with untrained poorly-paid personnel, and that if one were to expertly and qualitatively examine the "pre-' and "post-" cleaning efforts, there would be little, if any, difference. Hell, the stores might even be dirtier than they were before. (?)

Bottom line: When I think of a clean, sanitary store, Walmart is not very high on the list to begin with. So maybe the question of utility is of little consequence.

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:53:55 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

Rick,

I realize you are just a blowhard asshole.
You can't help it. It's who you are. And I accept that.

I honestly used to think that you were some know-it-all twenty-something until you mentioned in a recent post that you were in your 60's.

Of course, that doesn't really change much, other than I now attribute your overall intransigence and often-time contrarian points of view to just being a stubborn old man stuck in his way.

The moment anyone touches on (practically any) topic of which you apparently "know everything", you immediately engage in snarky ad-hominem attacks. (like you most recent claim that I am "obsessed" - pleeeze, get a life!)

Anyway, I view most of your replies here on SED as a sure sign of insecurity.
You might want to work on that. Totally up to you.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:08:02 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 19:21:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 1:22:18 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On 12 Mar 2020 19:16:05 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

Today I got emails from the CEOs of three companies
about their actions to protect us against Covid-19.

Nuclear extinction. Nuclear winter. Global cooling. Global warming.
Sea level rise. Ozone hole. The Population Bomb. Y2K. Ebola. SARS.
MERS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoryoomsday_scenarios

This sort of thing is ever popular.

Not popular; vitally important. We live and die by our collective ability to
handle these (and other) plausible scenarios. No sane individual wants to see
a nuclear winter, and a flurry of very productive arms limitation work
has made the planet safer. But, never completely safe.

The key phrase here is "plausible."

I suppose panic is a sort of herd survival mechanism, except that the
panics are usually random and irrational. What happened to peak oil?
The great irrational sugar panic made my daddy-in-law, a barely
literate cajun sugar cane farmer, rich.

Most people are afraid. Fear is an energy gradient that, as it builds,
any random concept can exploit.

But why did this one pick toilet paper and garlic? We'll never know.

I buy Toilet Paper and Paper towels in bulk. A bundle of each lasts me six months. When I open a bundle, I buy another one so I don't have to run out and panic buy. I don't use Garlic, or many other spices due to allergies, and I don't drink any alcohol, so I don't have to worry about running out..

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:20:05 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:06:01 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I wonder, if a random group of people were exposed to this virus, how
many would actually get infected?

An even better question might be:
If a random group of people were exposed to this virus and became infected, how many of them would actually use the items they purchased in the pre-infection panic?

Where I live, Publix is one of the main grocery stores.

Publix, Save A Lot and Winn-Dixie are all that are left in my area after Super-Value bought Albertson's and closed the local stores. There are a couple small ethnic stores, but I can't eat most of what they sell. Dollar General and Dollar Tree have a little food, but to buy what doesn't upset my Glucose levels, I have to go to Sam's Club and buy in bulk, or hit multiple Walmarts until I find enough that I'm supposed to eat. The one near 'The Villages' is supplied from the Orlando District, the rest from your area.

We stopped by last night for ice.
(That fuckin' Whirlpool piece of shit fridge isn't working - again, but that's another story for another time.)

Well guess what? All the Publix stores are now closing at 8PM due to the Coronavirus. All in the name of "safety".

So, I guess it's more safe to open the store for fewer hours, resulting in higher concentrations of shoppers when the doors are actually open. Genius!!

Personally, I think it's just more corporate virtue-signaling bullshit.
The illusion of safety, but no actual safety.
Just doing their part, which amounts to nothing.

Link: https://ww4.publix.com/pages/publix-storm-basics/publix-store-status

A lot of other businesses are doing the same, along with telling any worker that doesn't feel well to stay home.

What bugs me is that all of the Supermarkets around here have dropped most or all of their low sugar and no sugar added foods, following Hurricane Irma. I have asked the managers why, but they look me in the eyes and tell me that they haven't dropped anything.

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:12:00 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

How about a quick thought experiment on Publix's website claim the closing the stores allows them to restock the shelves and disinfect the store:

1) After hurricanes, I've personally witnessed store employees re-stocking the shelves DURING normal store hours. What is so different about the current emergency?

2) Is it reasonable to believe that Publix has enough trucks and drivers to reach every store in its network, every night? Put another way, it is reasonable that a company would keep and maintain enough trucks, drivers, infrastructure and capacity (to include management, etc..) for PEAK demand?

3) Someone has to unload those trucks. Who's doing that? It is reasonable to assume that local management has to physically unlock the doors, turn off the alarm, etc..? Are they (and the drivers) going to unload the trucks, and stock the shelves, or it is more likely other store employees (i.e, stock clerks) will handle that duty?

4) Note that in #3, the store might as well be open, since the staff is present anyway. It is reasonable to believe that Publix would keep the store closed with a full, or nearly full, complement of employees on-hand?

5) With regard to #2, there are DOT and other regulations regarding how often truck drivers MUST take breaks from driving? That adds to the overall requirement to meet PEAK demand.

6) Let's say they don't have enough trucks and drivers - would they rent them? Seems like a lot of risk, extra expense, and coordination needed on their part, which, even in a store's cynical calculus, probably isn't justifiable.

7) The following morning (i.e., after the elusive re-stocking truck and made its delivery and the store shelves magically re-stocked, perhaps by elves), are the shelves actually re-stocked?

8) And if they are not restocked, and peak-demand trucks/drivers are available, could it be that the DISITRIBUTION WAREHOUSE is out of stock? (And if so, why close the stores?)

9) Are the "nightly" trucks and drivers themselves spreading coronavirus?

I could go on and on...
Absent additional information, I'm of the opinion, based on what I've seen at (admittedly) only ONE store, that the claim of "re-stocking and sanitation" is total bullshit. A veneer at best.

Maybe SOME stores get service, but not every night. (So why close every store?)
Maybe there's a rotation schedule that differs from normal due to the virus, (so why not claim THAT)?

Maybe eventually, they really will service every store, every night? (So why not wait until that is reality before claiming that it is?)

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:12:00 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 4:12:14 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

Actually, I'm more annoyed at how everyone these days is an "expert" on practically any topic, with a few keystrokes.

I like that YOU are obsessed with what others are doing and how effective it is without contributing a single damn thing to the discussion or anything else.

You are a part of the problem and very vocal about it which makes you even more a part of the problem.

But then we all do what we do best.

--

Rick C.

---++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:53:55 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
> I like that YOU are obsessed with what others are doing and how effective it is without contributing a single damn thing to the discussion or anything else.

Oh, I forgot to mention:
Clearly I hit a nerve there. (Wasn't really meaning to.)
But you took it personally, so there must be something in there that you agree with.

Regarding contribution:
Have you ever heard the saying "You can't sling mud without getting your own hands dirty?" BINGO.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:12:41 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:39:46 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 1:44:09 PM UTC-4, John S wrote:

I have not looked at your link, but my closest Walmart has changed its
hours short of the 24 hours they usually remain open. They say they are
disinfecting the store over night. That is plausible.

Sam's Club has also reduced heir hours to allow more time to clean and sanitize their stores.

Exactly !!!
So let me ask you Mike, if the have to close the "24 hour" stores in order to sanitize them, how were they doing the sanitizing before?!

What changed? (And if anything did change, was it meaningful?)

Many business have reported that they have hired extra workers to clean, and they are using higher strength chemical to sanitize their stores. I've received an email from just about every retailer that I deal with, and they are all stating the same thing, in their own words. Harbor Fright stated that if there was a large number of infected people near one of their stores, that store would be closed until it was considered to reopen.

My (albeit cynical) belief, is they are probably wiping down surfaces in the same haphazard way, using the same haphazard ad-hoc methods with untrained poorly-paid personnel, and that if one were to expertly and qualitatively examine the "pre-' and "post-" cleaning efforts, there would be little, if any, difference. Hell, the stores might even be dirtier than they were before. (?)

Bottom line: When I think of a clean, sanitary store, Walmart is not very high on the list to begin with. So maybe the question of utility is of little consequence.

Walmart has a lot of nasty, low life customers, because the size of their stores. It's like following pigs to keep it clean. The worst, in my opinion are the now closed K-Marts. Dirty floors, dusty shelves and nasty bathrooms..

 

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 9:50:54 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 12:35:44 PM UTC+11, dca...@krl.org wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 8:50:55 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 14/03/2020 18:55, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 11:50:07 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:


Also, I have a germicidal UV-C lamp which I use on certain items (mail,
for example). Comment?

Sure, use it on items that might be infected (you have to be quite
paranoid to use it on your mail) - UV is commonly used for sterilising
medical equipment. Don't try it on your hands, however - you'll kill
your skin cells before you destroy any virus particles.

My understanding is that UVC is not a problem unlike UVA and UVB.


Your understanding here is wrong.

It is very simple. Any UV (or other bands of radiation) which is
energetic enough to be ionising for DNA and RNA, and is therefore useful
for sterilisation of pathogens, will damage the cells in your body. UVC
is higher frequency and lower wavelength than UVA and UVB - it has more
energy, and is more dangerous.

I must admit I am no expert on UVC. But Wiki has a section on the safety of uvi which quotes a safety standard for uvc exposure and gives an 8 hour max exposure intensity. And if I understand correctly from various other internet sites , UVC does not have to be strong enough to be ionizing to kill viruses.
Again I am no expert and don't have any uvc sources.

UVC is short wavelength UV - 200 to 280 nanometers (nm). Every individual UVC photon is "strong" enough to damage a virus or one of your skin cells.

If the light source is sufficiently intense, that damage can built up to lethal levels - both for skin cells and virus particles.

You lack of understanding is of elementary physics, as opposed to UVC.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

You are correct. It has been so long since I needed to know the physics that _I believed what I found on the internet.

Dan

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:54:21 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:12:00 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

How about a quick thought experiment on Publix's website claim the closing the stores allows them to restock the shelves and disinfect the store:

1) After hurricanes, I've personally witnessed store employees re-stocking the shelves DURING normal store hours. What is so different about the current emergency?

They can't use forklifts wthot closing an entire isle


> 2) Is it reasonable to believe that Publix has enough trucks and drivers to reach every store in its network, every night? Put another way, it is reasonable that a company would keep and maintain enough trucks, drivers, infrastructure and capacity (to include management, etc..) for PEAK demand?

They may be delivering around the clock, by hiring temporary drivers? Some items are delivered daily or even twice a day. Things like Bread and sodas, since even under normal circumstances they are twice a daay for larger stores.

3) Someone has to unload those trucks. Who's doing that? It is reasonable to assume that local management has to physically unlock the doors, turn off the alarm, etc..? Are they (and the drivers) going to unload the trucks, and stock the shelves, or it is more likely other store employees (i.e, stock clerks) will handle that duty?

Some delivery trucks carry a small forklift, but even small stores have one or more of their own. By adding extra truckloads while the store is closed, the pallets can be put in the isles where they belong. That saves the stockboys a lot of time.

4) Note that in #3, the store might as well be open, since the staff is present anyway. It is reasonable to believe that Publix would keep the store closed with a full, or nearly full, complement of employees on-hand?

Not if they are running around with forklifts. Their insurance companies won't allow them to be open, just like when they are stripping and waxing the floors.

5) With regard to #2, there are DOT and other regulations regarding how often truck drivers MUST take breaks from driving? That adds to the overall requirement to meet PEAK demand.

That doesn't stop a vehicle from having a second driver, like OTR trucks use.

6) Let's say they don't have enough trucks and drivers - would they rent them? Seems like a lot of risk, extra expense, and coordination needed on their part, which, even in a store's cynical calculus, probably isn't justifiable.

What extra expense? More stock means more sales, and more profit. What will hurt them is after the panic ends, and their sales drop until all of the hoarded items are used up.

7) The following morning (i.e., after the elusive re-stocking truck and made its delivery and the store shelves magically re-stocked, perhaps by elves), are the shelves actually re-stocked?

If they aren't restocked, why would the open their doors?

8) And if they are not restocked, and peak-demand trucks/drivers are available, could it be that the DISTRIBUTION WAREHOUSE is out of stock? (And if so, why close the stores?)

Those distribution centers are huge, and their suppliers will ship everything they can, until they are out of stock.

9) Are the "nightly" trucks and drivers themselves spreading coronavirus?

The inventory is moved by the pallet or Gaylord. The drivers don't need to touch anything.

I could go on and on...
Absent additional information, I'm of the opinion, based on what I've seen at (admittedly) only ONE store, that the claim of "re-stocking and sanitation" is total bullshit. A veneer at best.

Maybe SOME stores get service, but not every night. (So why close every store?)
Maybe there's a rotation schedule that differs from normal due to the virus, (so why not claim THAT)?

Maybe eventually, they really will service every store, every night? (So why not wait until that is reality before claiming that it is?)

These are not little 'Sam Drucker' type stores. People work around the clock to keep them ready for their customers.

Disney and the other theme parks are closed, starting on Monday. Do you think they won't be doing anything, while they lose millions of dollars? I'll bet that their maintenance crews will be working around the clock, while they can work on major problems and routine maintenance that is difficult to schedule while the parks are open.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 1:03:07 PM UTC+11, dca...@krl.org wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 8:50:55 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 14/03/2020 18:55, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 11:50:07 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:


Also, I have a germicidal UV-C lamp which I use on certain items (mail,
for example). Comment?

Sure, use it on items that might be infected (you have to be quite paranoid to use it on your mail) - UV is commonly used for sterilising
medical equipment. Don't try it on your hquestionands, however - you'll kill your skin cells before you destroy any virus particles.

My understanding is that UVC is not a problem unlike UVA and UVB.question
question

Your understanding here is wrong.

It is very simple. Any UV (or other bands of radiation) which is energetic enough to be ionising for DNA and RquestionNA, and is therefore useful for sterilisation of pathogens, will damage the cells in your body. UVC is higher frequency and lower wavelength than UVA and UVB - it has more energy, and is more dangerous.

I must admit I am no expert on UVC. But Wiki has a section on the safety of uvi which quotes a safety standard for uvc exposure and gives an 8 hour max exposure intensity. And if I understand correctly from various internet sites , UVC does not have to be strong enough to be ionizing to kill viruses.

Your understanding confuses intensity - which is the number of photons - with ionizing capacity - which is the wavelength of the photons.

Any UVC photon has a quantum of energy sufficient to ionise the biological molecules that that we are talking about here.

You need enough photons to ionise enough molecules to damage pathogens enough to kill them off, but that many phontons does enough damage to the molecule in your skin to make you more likely to get skin cancers.

You are confusing "strenght" as applied to ionising capacity with "strength" in the sense of producing enough photons to ionise enough molecules to have a perceptible effect.

You wouldn't have got through your expensive and high prestige education if you made that kind of mistake when you were younger.

--
Bill Sl;oman, Sydney

 

[mpm]

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 12:01:08 AM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

> Hey, it's nice to have a discussion where it didn't turn into a pissing contest. I didn't know reasonable people bothered to come here.

Translation: Rick C's undisguised attempt to atone for his own passive-aggressive tendencies.

He's aware his comment is targeted.
The fact that it is speaks volumes.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:55:50 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:25:39 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:54:21 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:12:00 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

How about a quick thought experiment on Publix's website claim the closing the stores allows them to restock the shelves and disinfect the store:

1) After hurricanes, I've personally witnessed store employees re-stocking the shelves DURING normal store hours. What is so different about the current emergency?


They can't use forklifts wthot closing an entire isle

I've honestly never seen a forklift inside a Publix. I've never seen a pallet inside a Publix. And the shelves are obviously not high enough to require a forklift. I have seen stock clerks during the day work from hand-trucks and small dollys. It is reasonable that Publix's distribution chain would ship on such carts instead of pallets? (Don't know, just asking.)

Pallets don't slide around in a tractor trailer, Carts cant be stacked, and would have to be strapped down which wastes space. I've seen forklifts at Publix, Save A Lot and other stores. A good forklift driver could unload the truck five to ten times faster then moving things to carts and rolling them into the staging area where they are loaded onto another cart to put things on shelves.

The Save A Lot that I shop at has a row of full or partial pallets along a wall. They have a full forklift, along with a pallet jack. You shove it under the pallet and use the Hydraulic Jack to lift it. Those can be used when a store is open. They also make battery power versions.

<https://www.grainger.com/category/material-handling/pallet-jacks-and-pallet-moving-equipment/pallet-jacks>

2) Is it reasonable to believe that Publix has enough trucks and drivers to reach every store in its network, every night? Put another way, it is reasonable that a company would keep and maintain enough trucks, drivers, infrastructure and capacity (to include management, etc..) for PEAK demand?

They may be delivering around the clock, by hiring temporary drivers? Some items are delivered daily or even twice a day. Things like Bread and sodas, since even under normal circumstances they are twice a daay for larger stores.

Maybe so - but delivery of bread and sodas is handled by third-party suppliers, not the Publix warehouse distribution team, and so it is the working hours of those suppliers that govern (not Publix).

Yes, and they make multiple trips for big stores because it won't fit into a single load.

3) Someone has to unload those trucks. Who's doing that? It is reasonable to assume that local management has to physically unlock the doors, turn off the alarm, etc..? Are they (and the drivers) going to unload the trucks, and stock the shelves, or it is more likely other store employees (i.e, stock clerks) will handle that duty?


Some delivery trucks carry a small forklift, but even small stores have one or more of their own. By adding extra truckloads while the store is closed, the pallets can be put in the isles where they belong. That saves the stockboys a lot of time.

I honestly don't think Publix ever puts pallets on their aisle floors, or runs forklifts over them. It's not a warehouse environment. I actually worked for Publix 40 years ago. We had to polish and wax the floors every Saturday night (they were closed on Sunday's back then). Do they still do that? Probably, and while I can't say for sure, I don't recall ever seeing floors in a Publix that looked like they had seen better days.

Forklifts have rubber tires, and don't mark the floors. You won't see them in the store, during the busy hours. Major restocking is done at night.

Could they use pallets "in the back". Sure. (And they quite possibly do.) But that in itself wouldn't speak to the need to close the store, unless as you claim, those forklifts and pallets make it to the aisles. I'm now trying to think.... in an average Publix, what door is large enough (and of the right type) to allow a forklift on the shopping floor? Humm....

Pallets are only 48 inches on the long side.

4) Note that in #3, the store might as well be open, since the staff is present anyway. It is reasonable to believe that Publix would keep the store closed with a full, or nearly full, complement of employees on-hand?


Not if they are running around with forklifts. Their insurance companies won't allow them to be open, just like when they are stripping and waxing the floors.

No argument there, but it doesn't establish that forklifts are actually ever in the aisles. Back to my days at Publix (40 years ago), I so seem to recall the strip/wax machine was only used after store hours - although we would occasionally try to get an early start.


5) With regard to #2, there are DOT and other regulations regarding how often truck drivers MUST take breaks from driving? That adds to the overall requirement to meet PEAK demand.


That doesn't stop a vehicle from having a second driver, like OTR trucks use.

Agreed, but again, that speaks to my comments regarding staffing for PEAK demand. And as that reflects on operating costs, know that profit margins for grocery stores are usually pretty low - on the order of just a couple percentage points - hardly room for PEAK staffing.




6) Let's say they don't have enough trucks and drivers - would they rent them? Seems like a lot of risk, extra expense, and coordination needed on their part, which, even in a store's cynical calculus, probably isn't justifiable.


What extra expense? More stock means more sales, and more profit. What will hurt them is after the panic ends, and their sales drop until all of the hoarded items are used up.

Presumably, Publix would outsource all of their distribution if it were cheaper to do so. So, to the extent they have to outsource portion of it, those portions can be expected to be more expensive. After all, their partners need to make a profit. That's the "extra expense" part of it. But to your point, maybe it's worth it.

Of course, one could argue that closing the stores early offsets the increase in sales (i.e., lost opportunity cost), which ordinarily might negate negate the whole argument. But here, we're talking hoarding - so the counterpoint would be that the store only needs to be open a few hours, just long enough to sell out.



7) The following morning (i.e., after the elusive re-stocking truck and made its delivery and the store shelves magically re-stocked, perhaps by elves), are the shelves actually re-stocked?


If they aren't restocked, why would the open their doors?

People still need (whatever is on the shelves).
Prescription medicine and Lotto come to mind.



8) And if they are not restocked, and peak-demand trucks/drivers are available, could it be that the DISTRIBUTION WAREHOUSE is out of stock? (And if so, why close the stores?)


Those distribution centers are huge, and their suppliers will ship everything they can, until they are out of stock.

No argument there, and I suspect they really are out of stock on many select items (i.e., hand sanitizer, and oddly - toilet paper!)




9) Are the "nightly" trucks and drivers themselves spreading coronavirus?


The inventory is moved by the pallet or Gaylord. The drivers don't need to touch anything.

#9 was more a bullshit statement. I'll withdraw it.



I could go on and on...
Absent additional information, I'm of the opinion, based on what I've seen at (admittedly) only ONE store, that the claim of "re-stocking and sanitation" is total bullshit. A veneer at best.

Maybe SOME stores get service, but not every night. (So why close every store?)
Maybe there's a rotation schedule that differs from normal due to the virus, (so why not claim THAT)?

Maybe eventually, they really will service every store, every night? (So why not wait until that is reality before claiming that it is?)

These are not little 'Sam Drucker' type stores. People work around the clock to keep them ready for their customers.

When I worked at Publix, we got two trucks a week, plus the local deliveries of beer, soda and bread. (Not that I was paying much attention - I just hated to be called to help unload the truck.)

I'll bet they get more than that, today. Don't they advertise that their produce is fresh, every day?

Disney and the other theme parks are closed, starting on Monday. Do you think they won't be doing anything, while they lose millions of dollars? I'll bet that their maintenance crews will be working around the clock, while they can work on major problems and routine maintenance that is difficult to schedule while the parks are open.

Yes (let's hope so).
A sliver lining if ever there was one.
I'm sure they'd rather have the dollars though.

Their suppliers are the losers with all the restaurants and hotels closed.

 

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:11:12 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 1:03:07 PM UTC+11, dca...@krl.org wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 8:50:55 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 14/03/2020 18:55, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 11:50:07 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:


Also, I have a germicidal UV-C lamp which I use on certain items (mail,
for example). Comment?

Sure, use it on items that might be infected (you have to be quite paranoid to use it on your mail) - UV is commonly used for sterilising
medical equipment. Don't try it on your hquestionands, however - you'll kill your skin cells before you destroy any virus particles.

My understanding is that UVC is not a problem unlike UVA and UVB.question
question

Your understanding here is wrong.

It is very simple. Any UV (or other bands of radiation) which is energetic enough to be ionising for DNA and RquestionNA, and is therefore useful for sterilisation of pathogens, will damage the cells in your body. UVC is higher frequency and lower wavelength than UVA and UVB - it has more energy, and is more dangerous.

I must admit I am no expert on UVC. But Wiki has a section on the safety of uvi which quotes a safety standard for uvc exposure and gives an 8 hour max exposure intensity. And if I understand correctly from various internet sites , UVC does not have to be strong enough to be ionizing to kill viruses.

Your understanding confuses intensity - which is the number of photons - with ionizing capacity - which is the wavelength of the photons.

Any UVC photon has a quantum of energy sufficient to ionise the biological molecules that that we are talking about here.

You need enough photons to ionise enough molecules to damage pathogens enough to kill them off, but that many phontons does enough damage to the molecule in your skin to make you more likely to get skin cancers.

You are confusing "strenght" as applied to ionising capacity with "strength" in the sense of producing enough photons to ionise enough molecules to have a perceptible effect.

You wouldn't have got through your expensive and high prestige education if you made that kind of mistake when you were younger.

--
Bill Sl;oman, Sydney

Actually my high prestige education was not that expensive. When I applied the tuition was $200 / year. But went up to $600 a year the following year. And you are right, I did know better then , but never needed that bit of knowledge in the 60 years since then.

Dan

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:49:39 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:

I dug out a physics book and refreshed my memory. There are some internet sites that imply that UVC would be suitable for sanitizing airborne particles and was not a safety problem.And I suppose it is if properly contained and interlocked.

Anyway thanks for correcting me.

Hey, it's nice to have a discussion where it didn't turn into a pissing contest. I didn't know reasonable people bothered to come here.

UVC is used for germicidal purposes in the air. I knew a guy who worked in one of the containment buildings at Fort Detrick (the Army anthrax research facility among other things). He told me how a worker got a UVC burn by standing in a doorway where a light was mounted to kill pathogens. Everyone knows not to stand there, but he forgot. He must have been talking to someone pretty cute.

Big Clive has a video on the differences between the three types of UV lamps. Seems someone bought the wrong kind for an art show and a bunch of people ended up with sunburns or worse.

--

Rick C.

--+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[dcaster@krl.org]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 8:50:55 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:

On 14/03/2020 18:55, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 11:50:07 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:


Also, I have a germicidal UV-C lamp which I use on certain items (mail,
for example). Comment?

Sure, use it on items that might be infected (you have to be quite
paranoid to use it on your mail) - UV is commonly used for sterilising
medical equipment. Don't try it on your hands, however - you'll kill
your skin cells before you destroy any virus particles.

My understanding is that UVC is not a problem unlike UVA and UVB.


Your understanding here is wrong.

It is very simple. Any UV (or other bands of radiation) which is
energetic enough to be ionising for DNA and RNA, and is therefore useful
for sterilisation of pathogens, will damage the cells in your body. UVC
is higher frequency and lower wavelength than UVA and UVB - it has more
energy, and is more dangerous.

I stand corrected.

Thanks

Dan

 

[mpm]

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 11:25:39 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:54:21 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:
On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 10:12:00 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

How about a quick thought experiment on Publix's website claim the closing the stores allows them to restock the shelves and disinfect the store:

1) After hurricanes, I've personally witnessed store employees re-stocking the shelves DURING normal store hours. What is so different about the current emergency?


They can't use forklifts wthot closing an entire isle

I've honestly never seen a forklift inside a Publix. I've never seen a pallet inside a Publix. And the shelves are obviously not high enough to require a forklift. I have seen stock clerks during the day work from hand-trucks and small dollys. It is reasonable that Publix's distribution chain would ship on such carts instead of pallets? (Don't know, just asking.)

2) Is it reasonable to believe that Publix has enough trucks and drivers to reach every store in its network, every night? Put another way, it is reasonable that a company would keep and maintain enough trucks, drivers, infrastructure and capacity (to include management, etc..) for PEAK demand?

They may be delivering around the clock, by hiring temporary drivers? Some items are delivered daily or even twice a day. Things like Bread and sodas, since even under normal circumstances they are twice a daay for larger stores.

Maybe so - but delivery of bread and sodas is handled by third-party suppliers, not the Publix warehouse distribution team, and so it is the working hours of those suppliers that govern (not Publix).

3) Someone has to unload those trucks. Who's doing that? It is reasonable to assume that local management has to physically unlock the doors, turn off the alarm, etc..? Are they (and the drivers) going to unload the trucks, and stock the shelves, or it is more likely other store employees (i..e, stock clerks) will handle that duty?


Some delivery trucks carry a small forklift, but even small stores have one or more of their own. By adding extra truckloads while the store is closed, the pallets can be put in the isles where they belong. That saves the stockboys a lot of time.

I honestly don't think Publix ever puts pallets on their aisle floors, or runs forklifts over them. It's not a warehouse environment. I actually worked for Publix 40 years ago. We had to polish and wax the floors every Saturday night (they were closed on Sunday's back then). Do they still do that? Probably, and while I can't say for sure, I don't recall ever seeing floors in a Publix that looked like they had seen better days.

Could they use pallets "in the back". Sure. (And they quite possibly do.) But that in itself wouldn't speak to the need to close the store, unless as you claim, those forklifts and pallets make it to the aisles. I'm now trying to think.... in an average Publix, what door is large enough (and of the right type) to allow a forklift on the shopping floor? Humm....

4) Note that in #3, the store might as well be open, since the staff is present anyway. It is reasonable to believe that Publix would keep the store closed with a full, or nearly full, complement of employees on-hand?


Not if they are running around with forklifts. Their insurance companies won't allow them to be open, just like when they are stripping and waxing the floors.

No argument there, but it doesn't establish that forklifts are actually ever in the aisles. Back to my days at Publix (40 years ago), I so seem to recall the strip/wax machine was only used after store hours - although we would occasionally try to get an early start.

5) With regard to #2, there are DOT and other regulations regarding how often truck drivers MUST take breaks from driving? That adds to the overall requirement to meet PEAK demand.


That doesn't stop a vehicle from having a second driver, like OTR trucks use.

Agreed, but again, that speaks to my comments regarding staffing for PEAK demand. And as that reflects on operating costs, know that profit margins for grocery stores are usually pretty low - on the order of just a couple percentage points - hardly room for PEAK staffing.

6) Let's say they don't have enough trucks and drivers - would they rent them? Seems like a lot of risk, extra expense, and coordination needed on their part, which, even in a store's cynical calculus, probably isn't justifiable.


What extra expense? More stock means more sales, and more profit. What will hurt them is after the panic ends, and their sales drop until all of the hoarded items are used up.

Presumably, Publix would outsource all of their distribution if it were cheaper to do so. So, to the extent they have to outsource portion of it, those portions can be expected to be more expensive. After all, their partners need to make a profit. That's the "extra expense" part of it. But to your point, maybe it's worth it.

Of course, one could argue that closing the stores early offsets the increase in sales (i.e., lost opportunity cost), which ordinarily might negate negate the whole argument. But here, we're talking hoarding - so the counterpoint would be that the store only needs to be open a few hours, just long enough to sell out.

7) The following morning (i.e., after the elusive re-stocking truck and made its delivery and the store shelves magically re-stocked, perhaps by elves), are the shelves actually re-stocked?


If they aren't restocked, why would the open their doors?

People still need (whatever is on the shelves).
Prescription medicine and Lotto come to mind.

8) And if they are not restocked, and peak-demand trucks/drivers are available, could it be that the DISTRIBUTION WAREHOUSE is out of stock? (And if so, why close the stores?)


Those distribution centers are huge, and their suppliers will ship everything they can, until they are out of stock.

No argument there, and I suspect they really are out of stock on many select items (i.e., hand sanitizer, and oddly - toilet paper!)

9) Are the "nightly" trucks and drivers themselves spreading coronavirus?


The inventory is moved by the pallet or Gaylord. The drivers don't need to touch anything.

#9 was more a bullshit statement. I'll withdraw it.

I could go on and on...
Absent additional information, I'm of the opinion, based on what I've seen at (admittedly) only ONE store, that the claim of "re-stocking and sanitation" is total bullshit. A veneer at best.

Maybe SOME stores get service, but not every night. (So why close every store?)
Maybe there's a rotation schedule that differs from normal due to the virus, (so why not claim THAT)?

Maybe eventually, they really will service every store, every night? (So why not wait until that is reality before claiming that it is?)

These are not little 'Sam Drucker' type stores. People work around the clock to keep them ready for their customers.

When I worked at Publix, we got two trucks a week, plus the local deliveries of beer, soda and bread. (Not that I was paying much attention - I just hated to be called to help unload the truck.)

Disney and the other theme parks are closed, starting on Monday. Do you think they won't be doing anything, while they lose millions of dollars? I'll bet that their maintenance crews will be working around the clock, while they can work on major problems and routine maintenance that is difficult to schedule while the parks are open.

Yes (let's hope so).
A sliver lining if ever there was one.
I'm sure they'd rather have the dollars though.