Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-18 18:49, Scott Lurndal wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:32:35 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid
wrote:

What\'s interesting about the city cars, is the pricing, rather
than the capabilities. It shows how much effect that impact resistance
and endless bullshit safety features have on vehicles. It\'s an attempt
at an end-run around regulation. And it\'s the only style I know of,
where people are experimenting with battery packs you can take in the house.

Yikes. Battery packs catch fire.

So do gas powered vehicles, at a much higher rate per 1000 vehicles.

(0.3% for ev, 1.05% for gas cars).

Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time they
crash.

Seen on the movies PPP

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-18 06:04, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

Here, you can not do that. The nozzle switches off if you take your hand
off.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-18 05:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 00:11:22 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

On 17/04/2023 23:46, SteveW wrote:
On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

....

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem.  I expect we\'ll start to see
tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially
since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from
simply plug and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car,
charger and electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party
apps and relying upon them all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I
have to get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge
flap will also be locked), which leaves lights, radio and
dash on; plug in; then lock the car; then use the charger app
to set charging and the car\'s own app if I want to monitor
charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to allow
the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed
period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I pass at least one filling station on virtually every journey, so it
isn\'t going out of may way.

The cheap gas station here is not on my way.

Same here, it is some kilometres out.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 22:08:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-18 02:32, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:47:56 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-18 00:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:08:37 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 19:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I don\'t understand how you can live with 10A. Are you in a tent? No
dishwasher, washing machine, kettle, microwave, computer, lights, etc?

Well, I have all of that, except that the kettle is plain, not
electric, and the dishwasher has been broken for decades.

My dishwasher and washing machine both use 2-3kW. That would be a bit
of a problem in your house.

Not really. When it was working, we put it on then went to sleep. All
the house was off except the machine.

But only one of them. And not a quiet sleep.

Oh, very quiet. This house is big, there is some distance. Different
floor, and 4 doors between.

Huge house and still only the equivalent of a single UK socket of power.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:04:45 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.

Why do you live in a shanty town?

Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.

But you said you let go of the gas pump while it\'s filling. Two problems - people forget it\'s still in after they\'ve paid. Not holding it means static - I\'ve seen a video of a woman who rubbed her hands on her shirt on a dry day, then touched the pump handle, it sparked, and a gush of flames ensued.

And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

So the filling isn\'t 4 minutes? I think it\'s a litre a second in the UK. Hardly slow enough to want to wander off. By the time I\'d walked to the other end of the car and back it would be full.

On a long trip, I don\'t even think about planning ranges or charge
stops overlapping meals or whatever, or whether I can drive at some
speed or run the heater. All that seems to amuse some people.

A decent electric car goes over 200 miles, and tells you where a charging station is. And you can always add another battery pack.

No thanks. I have enough hobbies.

It\'s not a hobby, it\'s a servant, like a satnav.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:


I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked),

Are you sure about that? I’d had my car for two years before realising that
the actual flap isn’t part of the central locking system.

which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state.

Every time? I just have mine set to charge for the same four hours every
night. No fiddling with apps involved.

If I’m charging away from home I just press the schedule override button
inside the charging flap to start charging immediately (on AC). On DC it
sensibly just ignores any set schedule.

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully? Special things like using a cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an option. If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Tuesday, 18 April 2023 at 16:00:57 UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
....

If I’m charging away from home I just press the schedule override button
inside the charging flap to start charging immediately (on AC). On DC it
sensibly just ignores any set schedule.
Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully? Special things like using a cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an option. If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

It depends on the car:

With mine the timing of charging, to what level to charge, whether to charge immediately and at what rate are all programmable. It can also have different behaviour depending upon location. For example, when at home it will wait until the optimum time and be ready at the set time next morning. At a public charger it can start charging immediately.

It is also possible for the charging to be controlled by an external service over the internet: I subscribe to one called EVpulse where they pay me (albeit only a small amount) for the charging to be controlled by them to optimize the grid. Since there is often an excess of solar energy in the middle of the day or early afternoon it is useful to be able to use fleet of EVs as a controllable energy sink to manage the excess. They still guarantee that the car will be charged by the time I specify.

kw

 

[rbowman]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:59:05 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

So the filling isn\'t 4 minutes? I think it\'s a litre a second in the
UK. Hardly slow enough to want to wander off. By the time I\'d walked
to the other end of the car and back it would be full.

By law in the US the maximum rate is 10 US gallons per minute (37.9
liters). As I stood in a snow squall this afternoon, 8.2 gallons took
forever.

 

[Paul]

On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:


I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked),

Are you sure about that? I’d had my car for two years before realising that
the actual flap isn’t part of the central locking system.

which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state.

Every time? I just have mine set to charge for the same four hours every
night. No fiddling with apps involved.

If I’m charging away from home I just press the schedule override button
inside the charging flap to start charging immediately (on AC). On DC it
sensibly just ignores any set schedule.

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully?  Special things like using a cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an option.  If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.

Paul

 

[rbowman]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 08:40:29 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

The liberal side of Oregon... I forget the exact number but if a county
has fewer than X people, you can pump your own. Those counties, of course,
happen to be in eastern Oregon. Unless they can sneak into Idaho some dark
night and leave the libs to their own hell.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/rei-portland-pearl-district-
closure/283-086a8564-869b-46c0-87e4-53c0827ab740

I\'m heartbroken... I started my personal boycott of REI when they dropped
the CamelBak line because CamelBak\'s parent corporation also happens to
own some firearms related businesses. That was even before they jumped on
the BLM bandwagon, iirc. You get what you ask for.

I can buy a CamelBak pack at Sportsmens Warehouse down the street -- along
with guns and ammunition if I so desire.

 

[Bob F]

On 4/18/2023 6:30 PM, Paul wrote:

On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:


I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked),

Are you sure about that? I’d had my car for two years before
realising that
the actual flap isn’t part of the central locking system.

which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app
if I
want to monitor charge state.

Every time? I just have mine set to charge for the same four hours every
night. No fiddling with apps involved.

If I’m charging away from home I just press the schedule override button
inside the charging flap to start charging immediately (on AC). On DC it
sensibly just ignores any set schedule.

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully?  Special things like using a
cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an
option.  If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.

   Paul

So, Does the car software allow you to pre-plan the trip so it charges
appropriately, taking into account the magnitude of the hills both ways
and even reduce the charge before the trip to allow the battery to
absorb the maximum energy from those downhill legs, thereby using the
least energy possible?

It seems like tieing together the gps and the trip planning should be an
obvious next step in these systems.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Tuesday, 18 April 2023 at 19:55:52 UTC-7, Bob F wrote:
....

So, Does the car software allow you to pre-plan the trip so it charges
appropriately, taking into account the magnitude of the hills both ways
and even reduce the charge before the trip to allow the battery to
absorb the maximum energy from those downhill legs, thereby using the
least energy possible?

It seems like tieing together the gps and the trip planning should be an
obvious next step in these systems.

Tesla\'s software does all that.

kw

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.


And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

For a whole minute, so what? Do you get annoyed having to hold your mower while you mow the lawn?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 19:14:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

No, they are so stupid that some forecourts are completely unusable. The
anti-theft in the car tank inlet triggers the auto shutoff.
I no longer use those forecourts

I complained at one, she told me to hold the nozzle sideways, it kinda works. Only one pump there does it, must be set too sensitive. Shje said they\'d had the engineer out, but his test equipment couldn\'t detect a fault.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:14:56 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 19:14:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

No, they are so stupid that some forecourts are completely unusable. The
anti-theft in the car tank inlet triggers the auto shutoff.
I no longer use those forecourts

I never have a problem here. Sometimes it takes a second try to get
the latch to hold, but that adds 2 seconds to a fillup.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/04/17/unfit-for-use-more-ev-woes/

Nice pic.

What a fool.

\"A Business Insider reporter learned how “brutal” a road trip in an electric vehicle (EV) can be when he was forced to bundle up instead of using the heater in his car to try to maximize his range.\"

Firstly being chilly isn\'t brutal. I guess he never goes out for a walk, a cycle, uses a motorcycle.

Secondly, the heater in a car is what? A kW? So enough to use the battery in 75 hours! Nothing compared to the motors.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 03:22:33 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 08:40:29 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

The liberal side of Oregon... I forget the exact number but if a county
has fewer than X people, you can pump your own. Those counties, of course,
happen to be in eastern Oregon. Unless they can sneak into Idaho some dark
night and leave the libs to their own hell.

American is so far behind. Why employ someone to do something as simple as pump gas?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 16:40:29 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.


And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

You\'re forgetting people are forgetful. If you leave it running and go do something else, you\'re very likely to forget to put the nozzle away and drive off with it attached, this causes a massive leak of gas and a massive fire.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:18:52 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On 18 Apr 2023 15:04:02 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW wrote:

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

Back in the \'70s as stations started going to self-service and the nozzles
didn\'t have locks, someone came up with a simple plastic widget to put on
your key ring.

https://www.thegasgripper.com/

The original device was a flat piece of plastic to wedge under the
trigger.

Much more annoying are the \'vapor recovery\' nozzles that have sort of a
spring loaded foreskin that has to be peeled back to enable flow. They\'re
a real joy with a motorcycle tank. California, of course, perfected the
design to be a maximum pita.

It\'s no hassle for a car, and admittedly it forces a motorcyclist to
push the nozzle down to get the air seal.

It does keep a lot of gasoline vapor out of the air.

Never found a bit of vapour to be a problem. And vapor isn\'t a thing.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:18:52 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On 18 Apr 2023 15:04:02 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW wrote:

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

Back in the \'70s as stations started going to self-service and the nozzles
didn\'t have locks, someone came up with a simple plastic widget to put on
your key ring.

https://www.thegasgripper.com/

The original device was a flat piece of plastic to wedge under the
trigger.

Much more annoying are the \'vapor recovery\' nozzles that have sort of a
spring loaded foreskin that has to be peeled back to enable flow. They\'re
a real joy with a motorcycle tank. California, of course, perfected the
design to be a maximum pita.

It\'s no hassle for a car, and admittedly it forces a motorcyclist to
push the nozzle down to get the air seal.

It does keep a lot of gasoline vapor out of the air.

Never found a bit of vapour to be a problem. And vapor isn\'t a thing.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 18/04/2023 22:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-18 05:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 00:11:22 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

On 17/04/2023 23:46, SteveW wrote:
On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

...
As well as that, if every house has something along those lines,
the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem.  I expect we\'ll start to see
tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg
cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially
since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from
simply plug and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car,
charger and electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party
apps and relying upon them all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I
have to get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge
flap will also be locked), which leaves lights, radio and
dash on; plug in; then lock the car; then use the charger app
to set charging and the car\'s own app if I want to monitor
charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to allow
the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I pass at least one filling station on virtually every journey, so it
isn\'t going out of may way.

The cheap gas station here is not on my way.

Same here, it is some kilometres out.

I discovered that the 5% cheaper diesel returned 6% less mpg.
I now fill up where its convenient, the pumps don\'t shut off if I fill
at more than a trickle, and I go past it three times a week


--
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere,
diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx