Only one EV charger at home?!...

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 18/04/2023 22:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-18 18:49, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:32:35 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid
wrote:

What\'s interesting about the city cars, is the pricing, rather
than the capabilities. It shows how much effect that impact resistance
and endless bullshit safety features have on vehicles. It\'s an attempt
at an end-run around regulation. And it\'s the only style I know of,
where people are experimenting with battery packs you can take in
the house.

Yikes. Battery packs catch fire.

So do gas powered vehicles, at a much higher rate per 1000 vehicles.

(0.3% for ev, 1.05% for gas cars).

Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time they
crash.

Seen on the movies PPP

At least gas cars don\'t generally go up in flames sitting in your drive
switched off.

--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance\"

- John K Galbraith

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 19/04/2023 01:35, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:59:05 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

So the filling isn\'t 4 minutes? I think it\'s a litre a second in the
UK. Hardly slow enough to want to wander off. By the time I\'d walked
to the other end of the car and back it would be full.

By law in the US the maximum rate is 10 US gallons per minute (37.9
liters). As I stood in a snow squall this afternoon, 8.2 gallons took
forever.

I see that UTAH has had record snowfall this year. 50ft deep in the
mountains, extreme avalanche danger.

\"Our children just wont know what snow is\" etc..


--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance\"

- John K Galbraith

 

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 16:09:01 +1000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 22:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-18 18:49, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:32:35 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid
wrote:

What\'s interesting about the city cars, is the pricing, rather
than the capabilities. It shows how much effect that impact
resistance
and endless bullshit safety features have on vehicles. It\'s an
attempt
at an end-run around regulation. And it\'s the only style I know of,
where people are experimenting with battery packs you can take in
the house.

Yikes. Battery packs catch fire.

So do gas powered vehicles, at a much higher rate per 1000 vehicles.

(0.3% for ev, 1.05% for gas cars).
Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time they
crash.
Seen on the movies PPP

At least gas cars don\'t generally go up in flames sitting in your drive
switched off.

Some do. A mate\'s Merc did that in his carport and
damned near took the entire house with it. No one was
home at the time and by a pure fluke someone who was
driving past noticed and called the fire brigade just in time.

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 16:32:09 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
\"Shit you\'re thick/pathetic excuse for a troll.\"
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1@news.mixmin.net>

 

[Peeler]

On 19 Apr 2023 02:22:33 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> I\'m heartbroken...

No, you just are a PATHOLOGICAL BIGMOUTH ...and a typical idiotic Trumper!
LOL

--
Yet more of the very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
\"I save my fries quota for one of the local food trucks that offers
poutine every now and then. If you\'re going for a coronary might as well
do it right.\"
MID: <ivdi4gF8btlU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[Peeler]

On 19 Apr 2023 00:35:13 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

By law in the US the maximum rate is 10 US gallons per minute (37.9
liters). As I stood in a snow squall this afternoon, 8.2 gallons took
forever.

You had nobody to pester with your idiotic grandiloquent gossiping,
bigmouth? Poor sod you! <BG>

--
More of the senile gossip\'s absolutely idiotic senile blather:
\"I stopped for breakfast at a diner in Virginia when the state didn\'t do
DST. I remarked on the time difference and the crusty old waitress said
\'We keep God\'s time in Virginia.\'

I also lived in Ft. Wayne for a while.\"

MID: <t0tjfa$6r5$1@dont-email.me>

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:30:29 -0400, Paul, another mentally deficient
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane,

He\'s not skiing or driving anywhere. He\'s just trolling and baiting in these
ngs, troll-feeding senile asshole!

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 03:30, Paul wrote:

On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

....

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully?  Special things like using a
cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an
option.  If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.

Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

I\'m just curious, I don\'t have an EV and I wonder how they do these things.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 04:55, Bob F wrote:

On 4/18/2023 6:30 PM, Paul wrote:
On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

....

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully?  Special things like using a
cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an
option.  If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.


So, Does the car software allow you to pre-plan the trip so it charges
appropriately, taking into account the magnitude of the hills both ways
and even reduce the charge before the trip to allow the battery to
absorb the maximum energy from those downhill legs, thereby using the
least energy possible?

It seems like tieing together the gps and the trip planning should be an
obvious next step in these systems.

Wow.

It needs to know also the weight of the cargo

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 06:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:18:52 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
On 18 Apr 2023 15:04:02 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW wrote:

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

Back in the \'70s as stations started going to self-service and
the nozzles didn\'t have locks, someone came up with a simple
plastic widget to put on your key ring.

https://www.thegasgripper.com/

The original device was a flat piece of plastic to wedge under the
trigger.

Much more annoying are the \'vapor recovery\' nozzles that have
sort of a spring loaded foreskin that has to be peeled back to
enable flow. They\'re a real joy with a motorcycle tank.
California, of course, perfected the design to be a maximum pita.

It\'s no hassle for a car, and admittedly it forces a motorcyclist to
push the nozzle down to get the air seal.

It does keep a lot of gasoline vapor out of the air.

Never found a bit of vapour to be a problem.  And vapor isn\'t a thing.

It is a lot of vapour. If the station is in the middle of the city, you
need getting a special permit, and if you promise to absorb the vapours
you are more likely to get the permit.

Something like 40 litres of explosive vapours per car.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 08:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/04/2023 22:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-18 18:49, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:32:35 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid
wrote:

What\'s interesting about the city cars, is the pricing, rather
than the capabilities. It shows how much effect that impact resistance
and endless bullshit safety features have on vehicles. It\'s an attempt
at an end-run around regulation. And it\'s the only style I know of,
where people are experimenting with battery packs you can take in
the house.

Yikes. Battery packs catch fire.

So do gas powered vehicles, at a much higher rate per 1000 vehicles.

(0.3% for ev, 1.05% for gas cars).

Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time they
crash.

Seen on the movies PPP

At least gas cars don\'t generally go up in flames sitting in your drive
switched off.

They can if shot at, something very common in the USA

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Skid Marks]

Rod Speed wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 16:09:01 +1000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 22:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-18 18:49, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:32:35 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid
wrote:

What\'s interesting about the city cars, is the pricing, rather
than the capabilities. It shows how much effect that impact
resistance
and endless bullshit safety features have on vehicles. It\'s an
attempt
at an end-run around regulation. And it\'s the only style I know of,
where people are experimenting with battery packs you can take in
the house.

Yikes. Battery packs catch fire.

So do gas powered vehicles, at a much higher rate per 1000 vehicles.

(0.3% for ev, 1.05% for gas cars).
 Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time
they crash.
 Seen on the movies PPP

At least gas cars don\'t generally go up in flames sitting in your
drive switched off.

Some do. A mate\'s Merc did that in his carport and
damned near took the entire house with it. No one was
home at the time and by a pure fluke someone who was
driving past noticed and called the fire brigade just in time.

How long does it take to put out an EV car fire?

How long does it take to put out a gas car fire?

 

[Theo]

In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

Theo

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:

In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Andrew]

On 17/04/2023 23:45, SteveW wrote:

On 17/04/2023 18:29, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

I think an electrician will only put one without current sensing if your
installation meets the usual diversity calculation.  eg if the charger is
32A it\'s assumed to be running continuously at that current.  That leaves
68A for the rest of the installation on a 100A feed.  It\'s also
possible to
configure the charger at installation time to only supply eg 25A if
that\'s
all remaining after diversity.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

Agreed, \'apps\' are a car crash of interoperability.  They all want to
corral
you into their little walled garden where you can\'t do very much.
Thankfully there are also APIs that allow platforms to communicate,
although
remains to be seen how long these stay working.

Personally I wouldn\'t buy anything without local control.  But then I\'m
resigned to running a Home Assistant instance to glue it all together.

Unfortunately, it\'s just what we got - we weren\'t buying, as the car is
leased and the charger fitted for free. Fortunately the lease is at a
much lower rate than a normal lease, as it is through Motability. If it
was at full rate, we\'d have been buying a second-hand petrol car.

But you seem to be using it for daily commuting, which looks
like an abuse of the motability scheme !. Isn\'t it insured
for only your wife to use ?. All the servicing and any new
tyres etc are done for \'free\' by motability (through Kwik
Fit I believe).

 

[Andrew]

On 19/04/2023 11:09, Skid Marks wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 16:09:01 +1000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 22:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-18 18:49, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:32:35 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid
wrote:

What\'s interesting about the city cars, is the pricing, rather
than the capabilities. It shows how much effect that impact
resistance
and endless bullshit safety features have on vehicles. It\'s an
attempt
at an end-run around regulation. And it\'s the only style I know of,
where people are experimenting with battery packs you can take in
the house.

Yikes. Battery packs catch fire.

So do gas powered vehicles, at a much higher rate per 1000 vehicles.

(0.3% for ev, 1.05% for gas cars).
 Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time
they crash.
 Seen on the movies PPP

At least gas cars don\'t generally go up in flames sitting in your
drive switched off.

Some do. A mate\'s Merc did that in his carport and
damned near took the entire house with it. No one was
home at the time and by a pure fluke someone who was
driving past noticed and called the fire brigade just in time.


How long does it take to put out an EV car fire?

How long does it take to put out a gas car fire?

Eurotunnel banned non-manufacturer LPG cars from the outset

 

[Theo]

In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

Both. With a manual transmission you get some degree of engine braking, but
you coast if you open the clutch. Without actively changing down gear the
amount of engine braking is not massive - if you purely let off the
accelerator doing 70mph on a flat road in top gear you don\'t get very much
retardation.

It is possible to change down for more, but the engine isn\'t happy about it
unless you match revs first, so in general it\'s easier to use the brakes.

Engine braking is not something you\'d do around town or on a regular
motorway unless you\'re in a hilly area, so most people don\'t use it very
often.

Theo

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission

In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[Fredxx]

On 19/04/2023 14:09, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission

In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Is there an explanation for the increase?

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:30:23 AM UTC-5, Fredxx wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:09, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission

In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.
Is there an explanation for the increase?

There are stories floating around that the manual transmission can be an anti theft device.
It has happened that thieves gave up when the vehicle didn\'t shift by itself.