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Well, I have all of that, except that the kettle is plain, not electric,
and the dishwasher has been broken for decades.
Not really. When it was working, we put it on then went to sleep. All
the house was off except the machine.
You call the electricity company and ask them to install a charging
point in your garage. Install new or change anything necessary.
So?
If you want more, pay more and get it.
Oh, yes, water was free. You went to the river or the fountain to
collect it. With a horse or a donkey if you were rich.
On my Audi, the automation opens the little trap door over the gas
filler when I push a button.
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.
Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.
EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.
So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.
My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.
As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.
That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.
The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.
I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.
Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.
But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.
I park on the street.
People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.
I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.
On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.
Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.
If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg
Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.
SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked),
Are you sure about that? Iâd had my car for two years before realising that
the actual flap isnât part of the central locking system.
which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state.
Every time? I just have mine set to charge for the same four hours every
night. No fiddling with apps involved.
If Iâm charging away from home I just press the schedule override button
inside the charging flap to start charging immediately (on AC). On DC it
sensibly just ignores any set schedule.
On 17/04/2023 23:46, SteveW wrote:
On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer
periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.
Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a
cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of
the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW
electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant
to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already
stressed supply.
EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered
by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back
the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current
again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey
this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority
over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car
and plug
in another.
So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming
everything is
installed right.
My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.
As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.
That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see
tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially
since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.
The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon
them
all working together smoothly.
I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app
if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed
period.
Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.
But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.
I pass at least one filling station on virtually every journey, so it
isn\'t going out of may way.
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.
Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.
EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.
So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.
My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.
As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.
That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.
The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.
I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.
Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.
But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.
I park on the street.
Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.
On a long trip, I don\'t even think about planning ranges or charge
stops overlapping meals or whatever, or whether I can drive at some
speed or run the heater. All that seems to amuse some people.
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.
Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.
EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.
So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.
My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.
As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.
That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.
The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.
I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.
Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.
But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.
I park on the street.
People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.
I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.
On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.
Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.
If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg
Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.
And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.
I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.
On 4/18/2023 12:04 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer
periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.
Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of
those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for
a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility
of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW
electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never
meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already
stressed supply.
EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being
offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle
back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A
envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to
a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the
current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to
obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority
over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one
car and plug
in another.
So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming
everything is
installed right.
My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively,
but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.
As well as that, if every house has something along those
lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.
That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see
tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg
cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially
since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few
hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.
The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply
plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying
upon them
all working together smoothly.
I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I
have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will
also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then
lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own
app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd
app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a
fixed period.
Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.
But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.
I park on the street.
People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.
I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.
On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.
Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.
If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger,
WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this
shit happens:
https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg
Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.
There are inductive chargers. At maybe 85% efficiency. They
vary by the distance they work at. That\'s a style of home charger,
where the owner can drive off and no harm done.
There are various formats of battery trailer.
https://newatlas.com/outdoors/tesla-range-boosting-electric-teardrop-trailer/
In Quebec, the auto association there has a couple Ioniq 5 capable
of giving other cars a boost charge. Enough charge must be left
in the AA vehicle for it to \"return to base\". They use V2L kit. The purpose
of this, is getting you a couple miles to the nearest charging station,
rather than loading 300 miles of range into a car at a pitiful rate.
It will be interesting to see where V2L goes.
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:30:44 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 19:33:49 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.
Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.
EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.
So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.
My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.
As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.
That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.
The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.
I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.
Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.
It\'s the car making him do it, not the station.
On my Audi, the automation opens the little trap door over the gas
filler when I push a button.
Maybe there\'s a phone ap that does that?
On 2023-04-18 00:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:15:39 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-17 19:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:59:15 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-17 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/04/2023 20:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-16 20:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 19:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 18:18:20 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
On 16/04/2023 08:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/features/do-you-need-two-home-charge-points-if-you-have-two-evs/
\"Some products will have the ability to âload shareâ, which
means
they
will communicate with each if two vehicles are plugged in. In
this
scenario, they will evenly split the power available so both
cars
charge
at the same rate, but this will be at around 3-3.6kW â in other
words
half of the available 7.4kW from the supply.\"
WTF? A UK home supply is 24kW.
The most common UK domestic contract is for a 17kVA supply.
Bollocks. 240V, 100A. Never seen anything else.
There are also 80A and 60A main breakers, but the limit to what you
can draw is not what the circuit is rated for, but what your
contract
with the electricity supply company specifies you can have.
Do you have some kind of hardware enforcing the limit?
A large fuse upstream.
And usually a main house circuit breaker,
The typical contract here for a flat is 3.6 KW. I think the max is
around 15 or 18.
Its colder in Britain.
Oh, a house with electrical heating will have a bigger contract.
Possibly three-phase.
Air conditioning? Surely you use one or the other?
Me? Yes, on one of the rooms.
Yes, you certainly can have separate electrical house heating and air
conditioning.
At 3.6kW total, the AC would be using at least half that!
So?
If you want more, pay more and get it.