Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Peeler]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:49:16 +0200, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:


> Something like 40 litres of explosive vapours per car.

That\'s less than the amount of shit you two trolling cretins got in your
thick heads!

 

[rbowman]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:28:00 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 03:22:33 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 08:40:29 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

The liberal side of Oregon... I forget the exact number but if a county
has fewer than X people, you can pump your own. Those counties, of
course,
happen to be in eastern Oregon. Unless they can sneak into Idaho some
dark night and leave the libs to their own hell.

American is so far behind. Why employ someone to do something as simple
as pump gas?

There are two states out of fifty that require attendants. The Oregon law
was passed in 1951 when attendants were usual. The left wing government
running the state believes, possibly with justification, that the citizens
are too dumb for the task.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2018/01/03/oregons-freak-
out-over-pumping-your-own-gas-shows-why-many-dumb-regulations-still-
exist/?sh=7aca997600eb

According to that the magic number for county population is 40,000.

 

[rbowman]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 13:09:45 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Interesting. I prefer a manual but wound up with AT in the last two cars.
When I bought the 2011 I\'d placed an order for a manual. My timing was
extremely bad since it was March 2011 and the model was manufactured in
Japan. On consideration I bought what was on the lot.

I briefly looked at the Toyota 86 when I bought my current ride. It had a
manual but also had a trunk suitable for one bag of groceries.

 

[Sam E]

On 4/18/23 16:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

[snip]

Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time they
crash.

Seen on the movies PPP

Mythbusters tested that. In order to get the car to explode, they had to
put a bomb in it.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:49:16 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 06:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:18:52 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
On 18 Apr 2023 15:04:02 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW wrote:

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

Back in the \'70s as stations started going to self-service and
the nozzles didn\'t have locks, someone came up with a simple
plastic widget to put on your key ring.

https://www.thegasgripper.com/

The original device was a flat piece of plastic to wedge under the
trigger.

Much more annoying are the \'vapor recovery\' nozzles that have
sort of a spring loaded foreskin that has to be peeled back to
enable flow. They\'re a real joy with a motorcycle tank.
California, of course, perfected the design to be a maximum pita.

It\'s no hassle for a car, and admittedly it forces a motorcyclist to
push the nozzle down to get the air seal.

It does keep a lot of gasoline vapor out of the air.

Never found a bit of vapour to be a problem.  And vapor isn\'t a thing.

It is a lot of vapour. If the station is in the middle of the city, you
need getting a special permit, and if you promise to absorb the vapours
you are more likely to get the permit.

Something like 40 litres of explosive vapours per car.

It was an air pollution/smog issue. The gas pumps here are required to
recover the vapor from a fill-up (a gas tank full, typically) and
modern cars are required to not allow their tanks to export vapor.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:27:20 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:14:56 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 19:14:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

No, they are so stupid that some forecourts are completely unusable. The
anti-theft in the car tank inlet triggers the auto shutoff.
I no longer use those forecourts

I never have a problem here. Sometimes it takes a second try to get
the latch to hold, but that adds 2 seconds to a fillup.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/04/17/unfit-for-use-more-ev-woes/

Nice pic.

What a fool.

\"A Business Insider reporter learned how “brutal” a road trip in an electric vehicle (EV) can be when he was forced to bundle up instead of using the heater in his car to try to maximize his range.\"

Firstly being chilly isn\'t brutal. I guess he never goes out for a walk, a cycle, uses a motorcycle.

or has a lady friend.

 

[John Larkin]

On 19 Apr 2023 02:22:33 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 08:40:29 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

The liberal side of Oregon... I forget the exact number but if a county
has fewer than X people, you can pump your own. Those counties, of course,
happen to be in eastern Oregon. Unless they can sneak into Idaho some dark
night and leave the libs to their own hell.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/rei-portland-pearl-district-
closure/283-086a8564-869b-46c0-87e4-53c0827ab740

I\'m heartbroken... I started my personal boycott of REI when they dropped
the CamelBak line because CamelBak\'s parent corporation also happens to
own some firearms related businesses. That was even before they jumped on
the BLM bandwagon, iirc. You get what you ask for.

I can buy a CamelBak pack at Sportsmens Warehouse down the street -- along
with guns and ammunition if I so desire.

Along the west coast of the USA, people are crazy on both ends. And a
spot or two in the middle, I admit.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:28:58 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 16:40:29 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.


And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

You\'re forgetting people are forgetful. If you leave it running and go do something else, you\'re very likely to forget to put the nozzle away and drive off with it attached, this causes a massive leak of gas and a massive fire.

Not a massive leak. The pump will shut off and there\'s just a little
liquid that would drool out of the hose.

But your scenario rarely happens.

 

[rbowman]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 07:10:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/04/2023 01:35, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:59:05 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

So the filling isn\'t 4 minutes? I think it\'s a litre a second in the
UK. Hardly slow enough to want to wander off. By the time I\'d walked
to the other end of the car and back it would be full.

By law in the US the maximum rate is 10 US gallons per minute (37.9
liters). As I stood in a snow squall this afternoon, 8.2 gallons took
forever.

I see that UTAH has had record snowfall this year. 50ft deep in the
mountains, extreme avalanche danger.

\"Our children just wont know what snow is\" etc..

At least in this valley we haven\'t had a lot of depth but the shit started
in early November and just won\'t stop. I\'d like to get some grass seed
down if the soil temperature ever gets about 50 F.

 

[Scott Lurndal]

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:28:00 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 03:22:33 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 08:40:29 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

The liberal side of Oregon... I forget the exact number but if a county
has fewer than X people, you can pump your own. Those counties, of
course,
happen to be in eastern Oregon. Unless they can sneak into Idaho some
dark night and leave the libs to their own hell.

American is so far behind. Why employ someone to do something as simple
as pump gas?

https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_480.315

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 07:52:00 -0700, John Larkin, another obviously brain
dead, troll-feeding senile asshole, blathered:


> or has a lady friend.

Well, YOU got the (reportedly!) smelly unwashed Scottish wanker as your
\"friend\" now, you twisted troll-feeding senile Yankeetard!

 

[Bob F]

On 4/19/2023 2:43 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-19 04:55, Bob F wrote:
On 4/18/2023 6:30 PM, Paul wrote:
On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

...

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully?  Special things like using
a cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an
option.  If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.


So, Does the car software allow you to pre-plan the trip so it charges
appropriately, taking into account the magnitude of the hills both
ways and even reduce the charge before the trip to allow the battery
to absorb the maximum energy from those downhill legs, thereby using
the least energy possible?

It seems like tieing together the gps and the trip planning should be
an obvious next step in these systems.

Wow.

It needs to know also the weight of the cargo

Yes indeed. But that really should be an easy addition to the car\'s
sensors and calculations. A few added strain gauges could weigh the
loaded car. It could be calibrated by putting the car on a scale
occasionally and entering the weight. Or perhaps, the acceleration
related to current flow could be used to calculate the weight.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:22:44 AM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:

rbowman <bow...@montana.com> writes:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:28:00 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 03:22:33 +0100, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 08:40:29 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

The liberal side of Oregon... I forget the exact number but if a county
has fewer than X people, you can pump your own. Those counties, of
course,
happen to be in eastern Oregon. Unless they can sneak into Idaho some
dark night and leave the libs to their own hell.

American is so far behind. Why employ someone to do something as simple
as pump gas?
https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_480.315

Interesting: \"Small children left unattended when customers leave to make payment at retail self-service stations creates a dangerous situation.\"

If it\'s so unsafe, just avoid the State.

 

[Bob F]

On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where
regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive
with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment to
your driving style to accommodate the small difference. Especially since
using the brake pedal will recharge your battery for free.

 

[Peeler]

On 19 Apr 2023 14:19:46 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

There are two states out of fifty that require attendants. The Oregon law
was passed in 1951

Who gives a shit except the endlessly driveling, trolling and spamming
senile shitheads in these ngs!

--
Another one of the resident senile bigmouth\'s idiotic \"cool\" lines:
\"If you\'re an ax murderer don\'t leave souvenir photos on your phone.\"
\"MID: <k7ssc7F8mt9U3@mid.individual.net>\"

 

[Peeler]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 07:58:42 -0700, John Larkin, another obviously brain
dead, troll-feeding senile asshole, blathered:

Not a massive leak. The pump will shut off and there\'s just a little
liquid that would drool out of the hose.

But your scenario rarely happens.

But his latest bait worked nevertheless, eh, you really idiotic
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE? <BG>

 

[Peeler]

On 19 Apr 2023 14:42:26 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

Interesting. I prefer a manual but wound up with AT in the last two cars.
When I bought the 2011 I\'d placed an order for a manual. My timing was
extremely bad since it was March 2011 and the model was manufactured in
Japan. On consideration I bought what was on the lot.

I briefly looked at the Toyota 86 when I bought my current ride. It had a
manual but also had a trunk suitable for one bag of groceries.

Another thrilling account about ...yourself again, you self-admiring
pathological gossip and typical Trumptard! LOL

--
And yet another idiotic \"cool\" line, this time about the UK, from the
resident bigmouthed all-American superhero:
\"You could dump the entire 93,628 square miles in eastern Montana and only
the prairie dogs would notice.\"
MID: <ka2vrlF6c5uU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 07:10:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 01:35, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:59:05 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

So the filling isn\'t 4 minutes? I think it\'s a litre a second in the
UK. Hardly slow enough to want to wander off. By the time I\'d walked
to the other end of the car and back it would be full.

By law in the US the maximum rate is 10 US gallons per minute (37.9
liters). As I stood in a snow squall this afternoon, 8.2 gallons took
forever.

I see that UTAH has had record snowfall this year. 50ft deep in the
mountains, extreme avalanche danger.

\"Our children just wont know what snow is\" etc..

The snow is crazy in the Sierras too.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p6854tn4p5u1ih8/AABu27KEF4wBVeVYFFxtr8BUa?dl=0

There\'s a small river running down the street in front of our cabin,
as the snow melts, and it\'s eating a pothole in our driveway. One of
maybe a million potholes in the county. I\'m on a waiting list to get
it patched, but the water needs to stop flowing first, I guess. I
could fill it with found rocks, but I can\'t find any rocks; they are
under 10 feet of snow.

Houses and garages are collapsing from tons of snow.

https://www.2news.com/news/no-injuries-after-truckee-home-collapses-under-heavy-snow/article_84231cd8-da3a-11ed-8fea-1f42fed27604.html

Why do people build houses with flat roofs in snow country?

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

[\"Followup-To:\" header set to alt.home.repair.]

There are two states out of fifty that require attendants. The Oregon law
was passed in 1951 when attendants were usual. The left wing government
running the state believes, possibly with justification, that the citizens
are too dumb for the task.

Bah. The citizens of Michigan manage to pump their own gas, and most of
them are as dumb as a bag of hair. You should see some of the
professors at the University of Michigan.

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:30:29 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:


I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked),

Are you sure about that? I’d had my car for two years before realising that
the actual flap isn’t part of the central locking system.

which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state.

Every time? I just have mine set to charge for the same four hours every
night. No fiddling with apps involved.

If I’m charging away from home I just press the schedule override button
inside the charging flap to start charging immediately (on AC). On DC it
sensibly just ignores any set schedule.

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully?  Special things like using a cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an option.  If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.

Paul

Yikes, one more thing to factor into driving. Park for an hour and
open the windows and run the heater full blast? Hey, a new roadside
business could be DISCHARGE YOUR BATTERY HERE.

In my gas powered Audi, I just downshift to spare the brakes.

The issue could be severe for big electric semis. Even diesels with
engine braking tend to smoke their brakes on a long downhill. We have
\"runaway truck ramps\" they can crash into when the brakes go out.