Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Paul]

On 4/18/2023 7:04 AM, SteveW wrote:

On 17/04/2023 23:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-18 00:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:15:39 +0100, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-17 19:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:59:15 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/04/2023 20:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-16 20:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 19:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 18:18:20 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

On 16/04/2023 08:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/features/do-you-need-two-home-charge-points-if-you-have-two-evs/

\"Some products will have the ability to “load share”, which means
they
will communicate with each if two vehicles are plugged in. In this
scenario, they will evenly split the power available so both cars
charge
at the same rate, but this will be at around 3-3.6kW – in other
words
half of the available 7.4kW from the supply.\"

WTF?  A UK home supply is 24kW.

The most common UK domestic contract is for a 17kVA supply.

Bollocks.  240V, 100A.  Never seen anything else.

There are also 80A and 60A main breakers, but the limit to what you
can draw is not what the circuit is rated for, but what your contract
with the electricity supply company specifies you can have.

Do you have some kind of hardware enforcing the limit?

A large fuse upstream.

And usually a main house circuit breaker,


The typical contract here for a flat is 3.6 KW. I think the max is
around 15 or 18.

Its colder in Britain.


Oh, a house with electrical heating will have a bigger contract.
Possibly three-phase.

Air conditioning?  Surely you use one or the other?

Me? Yes, on one of the rooms.

Yes, you certainly can have separate electrical house heating and air
conditioning.

At 3.6kW total, the AC would be using at least half that!

So?

If you want more, pay more and get it.

We pay more because using more means using more units. We don\'t pay extra to have a supply rated to a different power.

Depending upon the capacity of the supply cable and main fuse, UK houses typically have 14.4KW or 24KW supplies, as standard. We don\'t normally have to worry about being able to use the electric oven and electric hob while the dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer are on - even with an EV charger. On time limited boost, a single ring of the induction hob may take 4.2KW!

https://electricvehicles.bchydro.com/charge/choosing-a-home-EV-charger

\"Features related to your preferences

Amperage

Level 2 chargers are available in models that deliver between 15- and 80-Amps. <=== hmmm.
The higher the amperage the faster the charging.\"

They seem to relate capability, to 80% of the incomer (part of regs). So a 100 amp panel
can have a load of 80 amps at 240V as a total.

I could find a reference to inserting a 50 amp breaker into a panel,
which is presumably a 100 amp panel, and the 50 amps is less than the
80 amps total load. And there are fittings that allow 50 amp plugs,
without relying on hard wiring for the charger.

So that probably means, at least an 11kW charger with dual ports
could be fitted to a puny panel. And perhaps something bigger
could be fitted to a 200 amp panel.

If an 80 amp charger (multi-port) exists, then there must be some
sort of home configuration available from a panel perspective.

And apparently large homes here, have more than one 200 amp panel in them.
And that might even mean, they get their own pedestal transformer on
the front lawn, rather than sharing a pole transformer with the poor people.

*******

So maybe that\'s a way to answer the question for the UK, is
keep searching to see if anyone answers the question without
going \"22kW requires three phase\" as an answer.

OK, so now we need to figure out, what they fitted this to
A guess would be, one mother of an incomer.

https://shop.evchargersdirect.co.uk/products/type-b-rcd-rccb-80a-for-ev-charge-point-installations-2-pole-single-phase-30ma-80-amp

Paul

 

[rbowman]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW wrote:

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

Back in the \'70s as stations started going to self-service and the nozzles
didn\'t have locks, someone came up with a simple plastic widget to put on
your key ring.

https://www.thegasgripper.com/

The original device was a flat piece of plastic to wedge under the
trigger.

Much more annoying are the \'vapor recovery\' nozzles that have sort of a
spring loaded foreskin that has to be peeled back to enable flow. They\'re
a real joy with a motorcycle tank. California, of course, perfected the
design to be a maximum pita.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:32:35 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

On 4/18/2023 12:04 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.

There are inductive chargers. At maybe 85% efficiency. They
vary by the distance they work at. That\'s a style of home charger,
where the owner can drive off and no harm done.

There are various formats of battery trailer.

https://newatlas.com/outdoors/tesla-range-boosting-electric-teardrop-trailer/

In Quebec, the auto association there has a couple Ioniq 5 capable
of giving other cars a boost charge. Enough charge must be left
in the AA vehicle for it to \"return to base\". They use V2L kit. The purpose
of this, is getting you a couple miles to the nearest charging station,
rather than loading 300 miles of range into a car at a pitiful rate.
This is roughly the equivalent of the smallest red plastic petrol can
at the hardware store, in terms of practical capacity. It\'s intended
to take the place of towing, especially when some cars don\'t have good
tow characteristics. For the AA this is an \"experiment\", rather than
a commitment to BEV owners. They\'re seeing how much it sucks.

https://ev-lectron.com/en-ca/products/lectron-v2l-adapter-compatible-with-hyundai-ioniq-5-vehicle-to-load-adapter-power-your-devices-with-your-ioniq-5-black-1-pack

This was the previous device of interest. It\'s unclear this is in production though.

https://europe.autonews.com/blogs/french-startup-uses-battery-trailers-cure-ev-range-angst

https://eptender.com/en/battery-tender-2-2/

There are \"city cars\" (the Not-A-Car category), that as a concept, have
a removable battery pack in them. One of them, cost only $6,000 but
would not be useful/valid for my entire city (capped speed limiter). This
one though, for some reason, is able to operate on 80km/hr roads, so could
be driven here. It depends on country regulation, as to whether there is a category for
these or not. There is a particular eBike which costs $12,000 and yet
someone was able to make a four wheel car-like vehicle for $6,000. The
Yoyo is unlikely to be a $6,000 vehicle, because it\'s a little too capable
for that class. It\'s almost usable.

https://www.actualidadmotor.com/en/making-contact-with-the-xev-yoyo/

The packaging still needs a re-do on that thing, but eventually
they\'ll get these city cars fixed up enough, to allow people without
a driveway, to have an electric cart.

What\'s interesting about the city cars, is the pricing, rather
than the capabilities. It shows how much effect that impact resistance
and endless bullshit safety features have on vehicles. It\'s an attempt
at an end-run around regulation. And it\'s the only style I know of,
where people are experimenting with battery packs you can take in the house.

Yikes. Battery packs catch fire.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lithium-ion-battery-blamed-yet-another-fast-moving-fire-nyc-officials-rcna73566

and a car-size pack will be a lot worse than a scooter battery.

The $6,000 vehicle from the Netherlands, you really can take the two
packs into the house. But that one doesn\'t have exactly the same range
as the Yoyo.

Paul

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk>
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.


And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

We don\'t have to hold the nozzle here. One latches the valve thing and
it shuts off when the tank is full. Meanwhile, wash the windows or
reorganize the junk in the car or buy a bag of Cheetos.

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:51:13 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk>
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 02:15, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

On a long trip, I don\'t even think about planning ranges or charge
stops overlapping meals or whatever, or whether I can drive at some
speed or run the heater. All that seems to amuse some people.

On a long trip, I would take my petrol car. But for now, the EV is
covering all my needs. I have driven my petrol car once in the last two
and a half weeks - and that was to make sure that the battery didn\'t end
up flat.

I suppose having two cars gives you more options.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:45:10 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk>
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 06:51, Tim+ wrote:
SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:


I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked),

Are you sure about that? I’d had my car for two years before realising that
the actual flap isn’t part of the central locking system.

Definitely.

You can turn off everything without locking the car, but that involves a
few layers into menus - and then opening the door to get out powers
everything back up again!

It uses the driver\'s seat being occupied and the door open to power up.

which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state.

Every time? I just have mine set to charge for the same four hours every
night. No fiddling with apps involved.

I could do that, but at the moment, I want to correlate energy
consumption, what\'s in use at the time and how long the large loads are
likely to remain on for. And that means separate apps for the car.

I also don\'t have a schedule set, as we don\'t yet have an EV tariff for
cheaper overnight charging and, as it costs the same at any time of day,
I want it charged, in case of a sudden emergency call from my son in
Leeds (he\'s a student there) or my sister in Carlisle (she\'s living
alone and undergoing Chemo).

Once things are settled and our supplier adds our car model to their
supported list, there will be ANOTHER app, allowing for low priced
charging whenever the supplier has excess capacity available.

If I’m charging away from home I just press the schedule override button
inside the charging flap to start charging immediately (on AC). On DC it
sensibly just ignores any set schedule.

That needs either the car\'s app or access via the cars own menus. There
isn\'t an override button. Plugging in and locking the car doesn\'t lock
the cable in or start charging, so accessing the cars own screen or
using an app is necessary.

Soon every hammer, every screwdriver, every chair, every stove will be
automated and need a paid subscription app to operate. Mind the
updates!

 

[Peeler]

On 18 Apr 2023 15:04:02 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> Much more annoying are

What could be more annoying than your endless grandiloquent blather, you
pathological bigmouth!!!

--
Yet another thrilling story from the resident senile gossip\'s thrilling
life:
\"Around here you have to be careful to lock your car toward the end of
summer or somebody will leave a grocery sack full of zucchini in it.\"

 

[Scott Lurndal]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:32:35 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid
wrote:

What\'s interesting about the city cars, is the pricing, rather
than the capabilities. It shows how much effect that impact resistance
and endless bullshit safety features have on vehicles. It\'s an attempt
at an end-run around regulation. And it\'s the only style I know of,
where people are experimenting with battery packs you can take in the house.

Yikes. Battery packs catch fire.

So do gas powered vehicles, at a much higher rate per 1000 vehicles.

(0.3% for ev, 1.05% for gas cars).

 

[Scott Lurndal]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

We don\'t have to hold the nozzle here. One latches the valve thing and
it shuts off when the tank is full. Meanwhile, wash the windows or
reorganize the junk in the car or buy a bag of Cheetos.

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

Joisey and Oregon are the only two

 

[John Larkin]

On 18 Apr 2023 15:04:02 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW wrote:

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

Back in the \'70s as stations started going to self-service and the nozzles
didn\'t have locks, someone came up with a simple plastic widget to put on
your key ring.

https://www.thegasgripper.com/

The original device was a flat piece of plastic to wedge under the
trigger.

Much more annoying are the \'vapor recovery\' nozzles that have sort of a
spring loaded foreskin that has to be peeled back to enable flow. They\'re
a real joy with a motorcycle tank. California, of course, perfected the
design to be a maximum pita.

It\'s no hassle for a car, and admittedly it forces a motorcyclist to
push the nozzle down to get the air seal.

It does keep a lot of gasoline vapor out of the air.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 18/04/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

No, they are so stupid that some forecourts are completely unusable. The
anti-theft in the car tank inlet triggers the auto shutoff.
I no longer use those forecourts

--
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 19:14:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

No, they are so stupid that some forecourts are completely unusable. The
anti-theft in the car tank inlet triggers the auto shutoff.
I no longer use those forecourts

I never have a problem here. Sometimes it takes a second try to get
the latch to hold, but that adds 2 seconds to a fillup.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/04/17/unfit-for-use-more-ev-woes/

Nice pic.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-18 02:32, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:47:56 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-18 00:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:08:37 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 19:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:54:02 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 10:18, Martin Brown wrote:
On 16/04/2023 22:02, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 21:07, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:32:36 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
On 16/04/2023 20:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-16 20:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 19:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 18:18:20 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
On 16/04/2023 08:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/features/do-you-need-two-home-charge-points-if-you-have-two-evs/

\"Some products will have the ability to
“load share”, which means they will
communicate with each if two vehicles are
plugged in. In this scenario, they will
evenly split the power available so both
cars charge at the same rate, but this
will be at around 3-3.6kW – in other
words half of the available 7.4kW from
the supply.\"

WTF?  A UK home supply is 24kW.

The most common UK domestic contract is for a 17kVA supply.

Bollocks.  240V, 100A.  Never seen anything else.

There are also 80A and 60A main breakers, but
the limit to what you can draw is not what the
circuit is rated for, but what your contract
with the electricity supply company specifies
you can have.

Do you have some kind of hardware enforcing the limit?

I didn\'t work in the Commercial section, which was
responsible for the meter and company fuses, so I
don\'t know whether there was a limiter. As the
standing charges were based upon the contracted
supply, I assume there must have been some way to
enforce it.

There isn\'t.

That is a mere assumption on your part.

The meters only monitor how much you\'ve used, not how
fast you were using it.

They want you to use more, so they make more money!

\'They\' don\'t want anybody to exceed the capacity of the incomer.

The incomers in even quite old houses from the 1970\'s are
typically good for 100A though they are like mine often
fused at 60A or 80A. Our VH has exactly the same cabling
and 100A on each of the two available phases.

I expect just like with he 13A fuse in practice the
nominal 100A fuse will pass a considerably higher current
for a while before it fails.

My meter limits to 10A. This is an ancient contract, and the meter is
modern, so in actual fact it can not limit under 15A. Design fault.

However, there is an external fuse on the external house
wall, which I think is 60A, and that is a hard limit. It
can not have a big margin because the company wires will
not take the current and will melt the insulation.

I don\'t understand how you can live with 10A.  Are you in a tent?  No
dishwasher, washing machine, kettle, microwave, computer, lights, etc?

Well, I have all of that, except that the kettle is plain, not
electric, and the dishwasher has been broken for decades.

My dishwasher and washing machine both use 2-3kW.  That would be a bit
of a problem in your house.

Not really. When it was working, we put it on then went to sleep. All
the house was off except the machine.

But only one of them.  And not a quiet sleep.

Oh, very quiet. This house is big, there is some distance. Different
floor, and 4 doors between.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-18 02:32, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:49:16 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-18 00:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:10:31 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 19:44, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:56:29 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-16 21:43, Commander Kinsey wrote:
3.6kW ROTFPMSL! In the UK a kettle takes almost that. I
wasn\'t aware you lived in the third world.

We just don\'t drink tea

Microwave?  Or are you still using flames to heat?

We drink coffee.

Heated by?

Me, I can choose gas or induction. Or I can use the Nespreso machine.

An induction hob using all the house\'s power at once.

If I power both plates, yes, otherwise, no.

That I have only 10A was not my choice, I inherited it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-18 13:04, SteveW wrote:

On 17/04/2023 23:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-18 00:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:15:39 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-17 19:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:59:15 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/04/2023 20:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-16 20:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 19:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 18:18:20 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

On 16/04/2023 08:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/features/do-you-need-two-home-charge-points-if-you-have-two-evs/

\"Some products will have the ability to “load
share”, which means they will communicate with
each if two vehicles are plugged in. In this
scenario, they will evenly split the power
available so both cars charge at the same rate,
but this will be at around 3-3.6kW – in other
words half of the available 7.4kW from the
supply.\"

WTF?  A UK home supply is 24kW.

The most common UK domestic contract is for a 17kVA supply.

Bollocks.  240V, 100A.  Never seen anything else.

There are also 80A and 60A main breakers, but the
limit to what you can draw is not what the circuit is
rated for, but what your contract with the
electricity supply company specifies you can have.

Do you have some kind of hardware enforcing the limit?

A large fuse upstream.

And usually a main house circuit breaker,


The typical contract here for a flat is 3.6 KW. I think the max is
around 15 or 18.

Its colder in Britain.


Oh, a house with electrical heating will have a bigger contract.
Possibly three-phase.

Air conditioning?  Surely you use one or the other?

Me? Yes, on one of the rooms.

Yes, you certainly can have separate electrical house heating and air
conditioning.

At 3.6kW total, the AC would be using at least half that!

So?

If you want more, pay more and get it.

We pay more because using more means using more units. We don\'t pay
extra to have a supply rated to a different power.

Depending upon the capacity of the supply cable and main fuse, UK houses
typically have 14.4KW or 24KW supplies, as standard. We don\'t normally
have to worry about being able to use the electric oven and electric hob
while the dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer are on - even
with an EV charger. On time limited boost, a single ring of the
induction hob may take 4.2KW!

Our suppliers are cleverer. They get more money from us without having
to generate all that electricity. More profitable.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-18 02:35, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:53:22 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-18 00:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:13:22 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 19:44, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:57:12 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-16 21:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:02:27 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-16 20:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 19:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 18:18:20 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

On 16/04/2023 08:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/features/do-you-need-two-home-charge-points-if-you-have-two-evs/

\"Some products will have the ability to “load share”, which
means
they
will communicate with each if two vehicles are plugged in. In
this
scenario, they will evenly split the power available so both
cars
charge
at the same rate, but this will be at around 3-3.6kW – in other
words
half of the available 7.4kW from the supply.\"

WTF?  A UK home supply is 24kW.

The most common UK domestic contract is for a 17kVA supply.

Bollocks.  240V, 100A.  Never seen anything else.

There are also 80A and 60A main breakers, but the limit to what
you
can
draw is not what the circuit is rated for, but what your contract
with
the electricity supply company specifies you can have.

Do you have some kind of hardware enforcing the limit?

For instance, in Spain the smart meter triggers if you draw above
your
contract and switches off the whole house. In older times, there
was an
electromagnetic current limiter switch, installed with an anti
tamper
lead seal, which of course, was tampered with. Which is a reason
they
installed smart meters in the whole country real fast.

The typical contract here for a flat is 3.6 KW. I think the max is
around 15 or 18.

Just how do you plan to charge an electric car?

Obviously, by contracting a charge point.

What do you mean contracting?  Installing it in ouyr property and
getting them to change all the wiring?  Or paying a neighbour?

You call the electricity company and ask them to install a charging
point in your garage. Install new or change anything necessary.

That would cost a fortune considering they have to lay new cable.

It will cost me £100 for the socket and a fiver for some cable.

Less than the car.

After buying an electric car you won\'t have much left to pay for an
electrician.  I can\'t beleive people actually pay someone to do
something as simple as fitting a charger.

It probably is all a joint offer by the car dealer.

And no, it is not \"simple\" at all in a flat.

The typical flat here can not charge an EV without a
new contract and installation, anyway. For one reason, 4 KW is not
enough, and for another the garage is underground, the flat is not. You
are not going to run a thick cable from level 5 to level -2...

Why not?  And it won\'t be thick for 7kW.

For starters, you need find an existing duct for the cable, and get
permission to use it — comunal property, so maybe 40 other neighbours
want to use that same duct.

Actually you can get 3kW chargers.  Just don\'t run the dishwasher at the
same time.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:22:53 +0200, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:


> Same here, it is some kilometres out.

Sadly, your sick senile shit is always in these groups, you cretinous
troll-feeding senile spick!

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:14:50 +0200, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:

For starters, you need find an existing duct for the cable, and get
permission to use it ¡X comunal property, so maybe 40 other neighbours
want to use that same duct.

So for how long will this sick shit still go on? Do tell us, you dumb
trolling and troll-feeding senile spick!

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:10:38 +0200, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:


> That I have only 10A was not my choice, I inherited it.

Just like your stupidity, you dumb troll-feeding senile spick! LOL

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:08:01 +0200, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain
dead troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered:


> Oh, very quiet. This house is big

Your mouth seems to be bigger! And learn to trim your quotes, troll-feeding
dumb spick!