Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Peeler]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 13:58:26 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>

--
R Souls addressing the trolling senile Australian cretin:
\"Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now fuck off.\"
MID: <urs8jh59laqeeb0seg1erij61m383reog5@4ax.com>

 

[Peeler]

On 21 Apr 2023 01:31:45 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> Ever drive a car with mechanical brakes?

I\'m still thinking of some sort of mechanical brake for your big mouth. A
baseball bat across it might work.

--
Gossiping \"lowbrowwoman\" about herself:
\"Usenet is my blog... I don\'t give a damn if anyone ever reads my posts
but they are useful in marshaling [sic] my thoughts.\"
MID: <iteioiF60jmU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Apr 2023 13:03:08 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
<hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

On 2023-04-20, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
 where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
 My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.

Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have seen
are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.


That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that
says you can not drive manuals.

Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I don\'t know how those particular tests are done. My guess is, it is
provided by the driving school as well.

Back in the 1970s when I learned to drive, they didn\'t think manual
transmissions were sufficiently important to teach.

Also in 1963 in Indianapolis, where driver\'s ed was part of high school
and offered to everyone, and taken by everyone.

I don\'t think they wanted the burden of teaching how to shift gears when
they first had to teach how to steer.

(A friend of mine
taught me to drive stick shift a few years after I got my license.)

I read about it in a book, and in 1968 when a friend wanted to start
early on our trip, he took me out in his car and let me drive it. To go
from Chicago to Pittsburgh, you only have to shift about 8 times, and
then he drove.

We had to provide our own car for the driving test, which was
administered by the government agency that licenses drivers.

There\'s no differentiation between manual and automatic transmissions
in the licensing of drivers, and I don\'t think there ever has been.

Same here.

 

[Peeler]

On 21 Apr 2023 01:29:50 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/camaro/

That shows the AT having a slight edge across the board. The modern 8 or
10 speed ATs aren\'t your grandpa\'s PowerSlide. They\'re even a little
faster off the line with the big V-8.

It\'s hard to find apples to apples comparisons. For example the new Civics
are only AT and the sportier Civic Si is only MT.

What is it with you and your pathological addiction to capital letters,
blabbermouth? I admit they are as \"impressive\" as just everything about you,
you self-admiring all-American superhero. LOL

--
Gossiping \"lowbrowwoman\" about herself:
\"Usenet is my blog... I don\'t give a damn if anyone ever reads my posts
but they are useful in marshaling [sic] my thoughts.\"
MID: <iteioiF60jmU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 20/04/2023 16:43, S Viemeister wrote:

On 20/04/2023 14:03, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-04-20, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can
adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
  where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We
use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of
using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
  My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual
cars.

Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have seen
are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.


That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that
says you can not drive manuals.

Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I don\'t know how those particular tests are done. My guess is, it is
provided by the driving school as well.

Back in the 1970s when I learned to drive, they didn\'t think manual
transmissions were sufficiently important to teach.  (A friend of mine
taught me to drive stick shift a few years after I got my license.)

We had to provide our own car for the driving test, which was
administered by the government agency that licenses drivers.

There\'s no differentiation between manual and automatic transmissions
in the licensing of drivers, and I don\'t think there ever has been.

Unless it\'s changed recently, UK driving licences specify manual or
automatic.

Correct. And a LOT more. I am not sure how many classes of vehicle there
are today, but moped, motorcycle under 125cc. motorcycle, car manual,
car automatic, vehicle over 3.5 tonnes , over 7.5 tonnes, HGV & PSV,
spring to mind from erratic memory.


--
\"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch\".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment
to your driving style to accommodate the small difference.
Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery
for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off.  The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so you
just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the brake
become \"hard\".

by totally I mean well beyond my ability to do anything more than
slightly better than coast to a atop. The steering became unusable too.

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped, press
the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it suddenly
became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

Yes happened to me in stop start jam downhill on the M25 some years
ago. Kept on braking with the car idling. Suddenly no brakes...

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

I am not sure but electric pumps instead of vacuum or engine driven ones
are getting more common.

On a BEV you would have no other option for power assist



--
\"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch\".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 20/04/2023 18:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-20 19:19, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:54:55 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it,
but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can
adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through
to quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular
transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
 where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We
use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of
using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
 My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual
cars.
 Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have
seen are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.

Bloody hell, we never do that and the the driving school
cars dont have any pedals in the passenger seat either.

Most choose to learn to drive in their own car and the
driving school does have a few cars that they use for
teaching those that don\'t have a car, but they are
normal cars, no extra pedals.

https://images.app.goo.gl/jvTPVT5LPmVpP8ma7

This is an old, old one:

https://images.app.goo.gl/QEgwshgZ1ug9xsES6
https://www.diariomotor.com/tecmovia/2011/09/07/el-coche-retro-de-autoescuela-segun-ford/



 That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that
says you can not drive manuals.
 Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I don\'t know how those particular tests are done. My guess is, it is
provided by the driving school as well.

No it is not. And I have just taught two who are married
to drive here and they both passed the test the first time.

I meant \"here, the car is provided by the driving school\"

...

In the UK when I passed it could be either. In fact I did it in my
mothers car.
Which had partially seized brakes. The emergency stop nearly spun the car,
s O took my foot of and straightened the car before pulling up a second
later.
\"Top marks for car control\" the inspector said \"But you would have
killed the hypothetical child\" I retorted \"the child was hypothetical,
the skid was real\"

He passed me. I had been driving on L plates for a year. Every chance I got

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-21 10:40, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Apr 2023 12:54:55 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have seen
are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.

Good idea on their part.

I decided to teach my girlfriend, who was over 30, how to drive.

I put a block of wood under the carboretor thingy so you could only get
the car up to about 20 mph, and I found a bent piece of metal conduit I
could slide underneath the kickpanel to the left of the driver\'s feet,
and then across the brake pedal and over to the passenger side.

We lived in NYC but were in a small town for the day. Only 5 minutes
in, she\'s driving along and I\'m saying Slow Down, then yelling Slow
Down, and as we got to the end of the road, I actually had to use my
passenger-side brakes. We slid to a stop on gravel that had piled up
there, and we even spun a little.

I asked why she didn\'t take her foot off the gas. She said she didn\'t
know about that method!!!! Apparently I had\'t started with the basics.
I didn\'t realize how little someone can know.

Next time I teach someone, I\'ll take her to a go-kart track and let her
start on that. Learn that the thing slows down when you take your foot
off the gas.

BTW, she was supposed to get a learner\'s permit, but she hadn\'t even
done that. So that was the end of her lessons. (Had we gone beyond the
road there was 20 feet of grass before we got to a cross-road.

She still lives in NYC, NY and still does\'t know how to drive and she\'s
as old as I am.

My father tried to teach my mother. Soon my mother decided she would go
to a driving school, and admonished me to never let him teach me, nor me
teach anyone :-D

Yeah, there was some incident where the car with them flew into an empty
house lot. She confused brake with accelerator or something


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 20/04/2023 22:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-20 22:09, Rod Speed wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 03:54:19 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 19:19, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:54:55 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car
decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use
regen or friction brakes.  For example mostly regen
if the battery can take it, but at low speeds
friction might be used for the last few mph down to
zero where regen is weak.  Also in an emergency stop
both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator
pedal? Does it just coast along, or does it apply
\"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs
you can adjust the retardation (regen) in a number of
steps from coasting through to quite aggressive
braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission where
you have to use the brake pedal,
whereas with higher levels you can drive with accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
 where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline) car brakes somewhat when
the accelerator pedal is released. We use that to
maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead
of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.
 My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on
manual cars.
 Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have
seen are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on
the other seat.
 Bloody hell, we never do that and the the driving school
cars dont have any pedals in the passenger seat either.
 Most choose to learn to drive in their own car and the
driving school does have a few cars that they use for
teaching those that don\'t have a car, but they are
normal cars, no extra pedals.

https://images.app.goo.gl/jvTPVT5LPmVpP8ma7

We have never done it like that, just use normal unmodified
cars, both when learning in your own car and when using
the car provided by the driving school..

AFAIK, that is forbidden here.

I am not sure what the current EU mandated legality is in the UK, (we
haven\'t changed any of it since we left) but when I learnt to drive in
the 1960s there was no requirement to take even a single lesson. Many
people who learn to drive during WWII never had to take a test either.
All you did was present yourself at a test centre with a car.
The inspector jumped in and off you went.

--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-21 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment
to your driving style to accommodate the small difference.
Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery
for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off.  The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so you
just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the brake
become \"hard\".

by totally I mean well beyond my ability to do anything more than
slightly better than coast to a atop. The steering became unusable too.


I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped,
press the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it
suddenly became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

Yes happened to me in stop start jam downhill  on the M25 some years
ago.  Kept on braking with the car idling. Suddenly no brakes...

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

I am not sure but electric pumps instead of vacuum or engine driven ones
are getting more common.

On a BEV you would have no other option for power assist

I had a start-stop Corsa (you know, they stop the engine when the car
stops moving or nearly so, and start it automatically as you foot the
clutch). The brake did work with the motor stopped, and the steering
assist. The later I know was electric and would keep running from the
battery.

The book said the motor could start again if the steering or brakes were
used too much in that state.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 21/04/2023 02:31, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:27:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

Ever drive a car with mechanical brakes? It\'s a good thing they could go
all that fast.

Ha. My mad cousin came to visit in a Ford 100E popular with CABLE brakes
- all drum.

His elder brothers drove motorcycles and the family Austin Healey 3000
or Ford Granada, but he had got this cheap. Narrow skinny crossply
tyres, almost no brakes at all, side valve engine, he drove it at 55mph
(as fast as it would go) and was literally *drifting* in full 4 wheel
mode round all the corners.

The eldest brother lent his motorbike to the middle brother one day, who
coming down the gravel drive skidded and crashed under the bike .
Expecting brotherly concern for his welfare as he struggled to get up,
instead his brother kicked him and said \'Look what you did to my bike,
you cunt\'

As years went by, it became clear that the elder brother had accurately
assessed his moral character.
--
The higher up the mountainside
The greener grows the grass.
The higher up the monkey climbs
The more he shows his arse.

Traditional

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 21/04/2023 11:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-21 10:40, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 20 Apr 2023 12:54:55 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have seen
are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.

Good idea on their part.

I decided to teach my girlfriend, who was over 30, how to drive.

I put a block of wood under the carboretor thingy so you could only get
the car up to about 20 mph, and I found a bent piece of metal conduit I
could slide underneath the kickpanel to the left of the driver\'s feet,
and then across the brake pedal and over to the passenger side.

We lived in NYC but were in a small town for the day.  Only 5 minutes
in, she\'s driving along and I\'m saying Slow Down, then yelling Slow
Down, and as we got to the end of the road, I actually had to use my
passenger-side brakes.   We slid to a stop on gravel that had piled up
there, and we even spun a little.

I asked why she didn\'t take her foot off the gas.  She said she didn\'t
know about that method!!!!   Apparently I had\'t started with the basics.
I didn\'t realize how little someone can know.

Next time I teach someone, I\'ll take her to a go-kart track and let her
start on that.   Learn that the thing slows down when you take your foot
off the gas.

BTW, she was supposed to get a learner\'s permit, but she hadn\'t even
done that.  So that was the end of her lessons.  (Had we gone beyond the
road there was 20 feet of grass before we got to a cross-road.

She still lives in NYC, NY and still does\'t know how to drive and she\'s
as old as I am.

My father tried to teach my mother. Soon my mother decided she would go
to a driving school, and admonished me to never let him teach me, nor me
teach anyone :-D

Yeah, there was some incident where the car with them flew into an empty
house lot. She confused brake with accelerator or something

Easily done. My sister on executing a left turn, which she managed to
do, was told to \'straighten up\'. She didn\'t know what that meant and
continued turning left into a ditch.

--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 21/04/2023 09:45, micky wrote:

I don\'t think they wanted the burden of teaching how to shift gears when
they first had to teach how to steer.

People should star in go karts till they learn how to steer and brake
and control the car.
Then Tesco\'s car park on Sunday to learn how to reverse and be accurate
and use the gears and clutch

THEN they are moderately safe on the road and can begin to learn the
real art of driving - avoiding all the other assholes.
And the trees.
And the speed cameras
And the speed humps
And the chicanes.

--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

 

[Theo]

In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 20/04/2023 11:00, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town. These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

Presumably you\'re still using the brakes though? eg if you\'re driving at
speed on the motorway and the tail lights come on in front of you, you\'re
not reaching for the gear stick to change down instead of braking?

It depends upon the situation. If you spot a problem early enough, you
lift off the accelerator and let the car slow with engine braking,
changing down as the revs drop to a level suitable to do so.

I would think of that as coasting. OK it\'s not coasting in the sense of
opening the clutch so the wheels are free to turn undriven, but the engine
is not applying very much retardation force. For example, on the motorway
going downhill in top gear, the car still gathers speed even if you let off
the accelerator. Not as much as if you opened the clutch, but it still
wouldn\'t decrease your speed. Whereas a sufficient application of the
brakes would.

In that situation, you\'d get more engine braking if you changed down (it
would try to rev the engine faster) but it wouldn\'t be good for the engine.

Theo

 

[Max Demian]

On 21/04/2023 02:31, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:27:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

Ever drive a car with mechanical brakes? It\'s a good thing they could go
all that fast.

Do you mean hydraulic but not power assisted? The hydraulics have a
different \"gearing\" (I don\'t know the proper word) so the force you have
to apply is still reasonable. I had a Mk I Escort like that. It had drum
brakes all round too. OK, but if you went through a puddle (or just
drove it in heavy rain) water would get into the drums and I would have
to go along with my left foot on the brake pedal to dry it out.

--
Max Demian

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-04-21, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

I read about it in a book, and in 1968 when a friend wanted to start
early on our trip, he took me out in his car and let me drive it. To go
from Chicago to Pittsburgh, you only have to shift about 8 times, and
then he drove.

My husband taught himself to drive stick shift by test driving cars with
manual transmissions. I\'m pretty sure he\'d seen someone drive stick
shift, and he\'s a \"see one, do one, teach one\" kind of guy.

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[NY]

On 21/04/2023 13:59, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On 2023-04-21, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

I read about it in a book, and in 1968 when a friend wanted to start
early on our trip, he took me out in his car and let me drive it. To go
from Chicago to Pittsburgh, you only have to shift about 8 times, and
then he drove.

My husband taught himself to drive stick shift by test driving cars with
manual transmissions. I\'m pretty sure he\'d seen someone drive stick
shift, and he\'s a \"see one, do one, teach one\" kind of guy.

It\'s considered bad form for residents of one country to stereotype and
mock residents of another country. We are all different and learn to do
things differently.

But...

A work colleague was telling me of an incident that his father had
witnessed when he worked for a car-rental company at an airport. A
brash, over-confident American (and I\'m sure that not all Americans are
like this!) wanted to rent a car. My friend\'s dad offered him an
automatic, reasoning that far fewer Americans than Europeans have ever
driven a manual.

The American was confident that he could handle a manual - \"how hard can
it be: I\'ll manage\". And so he was led to a manual car that was parked
in a line of cars alongside the kerb.

He revved up the engine (he\'d heard how easy it is to stall a manual if
you haven\'t developed the clutch-control muscle-memory) and let the
clutch in smartly. This caused him to rocket forward into the car ahead,
pushing that car into the one ahead of it. Before the car-hire guy could
intervene, the American had put the car into reverse and done the same
thing to the cars behind, as he tried to extricate himself. Within the
space of about 10 seconds he had just written-off five cars :-(

Moral: know you limitations and be cautious. It\'s not a sin to admit
that you don\'t have the confidence to drive a manual car.

It\'s not just to be awkward that UK drivers who passed their test on an
automatic car are not *allowed* to drive a manual car. I\'m not sure
whether an \"automatic licence\" acts as a provisional licence for a
manual car. In other words, does it allow a driver who has never driven
a manual to drive one as long as he is accompanied by a driver who holds
a full licence but is not qualified to *teach* someone to drive?

What is the situation with drivers who only hold foreign driving
licences when they drive a British (hire) car? Are those deemed to be
full \"manual\" licences (ie allowed to drive manual as well as
automatic)? Is it left to the driver to say \"Can I have an automatic
because I\'m not used to driving manual?\"


I\'m not sure how well I\'d have be able to teach myself to drive a manual
car if I hadn\'t had a qualified teacher to give me feedback and advice,
to get me past the stage of repeatedly making the same mistakes and
never learning how to cure them. There is a lot to be said for driving
instructors teaching learners the basics of clutch control off-road (eg
in a deserted car park or something similar) so they are reasonably
competent in controlling the car, changing directly from any gear to any
gear without stalling or lurching forward, and recognising the signs
when you need to change down *before* you stall.

I\'ve driven a fair number of cars, manual and automatic, petrol and
diesel. I hate automatics because they change gear at a time when I
wouldn\'t: I like to be able to control the timing of gearchanges so they
happen just before I start to apply power (so I accelerate all in the
same gear and acceleration is proportional to throttle position all the
time I\'m in that gear). During acceleration, I time the gear change to a
time when I come off the power briefly. I wouldn\'t drive an automatic
out of choice, but I can do - I have to drive more gently so as not to
be caught out by \"uncommanded\" gearchanges, especially when accelerating
out of a roundabout and it\'s a toss-up between not enough acceleration
in one gear and shit-hot acceleration in a much lower gear; the option
of \"stay in this gear and let me apply slightly more power\" doesn\'t exist.

The only car that I just could not get to grips with was a diesel VW
Golf. Not sure which Mark but it had the older Pumpe Duse engine rather
than the present HDi-type engine. I\'m used to driving diesels, and I
know that it is difficult to stall them: at worst then engine will just
labour a bit and fail to accelerate. Even petrols do this, though the
point at which they start to labour may be at a higher engine speed so
they are a bit less forgiving.

This car was different. There was something about it (maybe some weird
programming in the engine-management system) that meant that if you
didn\'t apply quite enough power, the engine would stall completely as if
the fuel had been cut off (*). No warning signs to give you chance to
apply slightly more power, to dip the clutch slightly or to change down.
Just a toddler\'s approach of throwing its toys out of the pram if you
didn\'t get it right. Despite being used to driving diesels, I\'ve never
stalled a petrol engined car. But I repeatedly stalled that diesel VW at
almost every time where I had to set off from rest. And it wasn\'t just
that car that was badly-adjusted. I tried another one with the same
engine a while later to see if it was as bad as I remembered. The sales
assistant said the almost everyone stalls that engine until they get
used to it. Not a very good advert for the car ;-)

I chose another car instead.



(*) A sort of \"you\'ve not applied enough power so I\'m going to make damn
certain that I cut the fuel off to force you to stall - then you\'ll get
the message that you\'ve cocked up\".

 

[SH]

The only car that I just could not get to grips with was a diesel VW
Golf. Not sure which Mark but it had the older Pumpe Duse engine rather
than the present HDi-type engine. I\'m used to driving diesels, and I
know that it is difficult to stall them: at worst then engine will just
labour a bit and fail to accelerate. Even petrols do this, though the
point at which they start to labour may be at a higher engine speed so
they are a bit less forgiving.

This car was different. There was something about it (maybe some weird
programming in the engine-management system) that meant that if you
didn\'t apply quite enough power, the engine would stall completely as if
the fuel had been cut off (*). No warning signs to give you chance to
apply slightly more power, to dip the clutch slightly or to change down.
Just a toddler\'s approach of throwing its toys out of the pram if you
didn\'t get it right. Despite being used to driving diesels, I\'ve never
stalled a petrol engined car. But I repeatedly stalled that diesel VW at
almost every time where I had to set off from rest. And it wasn\'t just
that car that was badly-adjusted. I tried another one with the same
engine a while later to see if it was as bad as I remembered. The sales
assistant said the almost everyone stalls that engine until they get
used to it. Not a very good advert for the car ;-)

I chose another car instead.

I have a VW Golf MKVII and this one is diesel but with a 6 speed DSG
gearbox.

The DSG box can be driven either in automatic or manual mode.

In automatic mode, it has two clutches, one for even gears and the other
for odd gears, It can change gear in less than 100 mS and it will change
down a gear if you put pedl to metal for overtaking.

There is a driving profile button for selecting economy mode all the eay
up to Sports mode.

To put in Manual, push the gear stick to the left and it then becomes a
manual paddle shift manual box.... There is no clutch pedal at all, just
move the gearstick up or down and the gearbox changes gear for you.

I think you would have got on better with this hybrid gearbox....

(*) A sort of \"you\'ve not applied enough power so I\'m going to make damn
certain that I cut the fuel off to force you to stall - then you\'ll get
the message that you\'ve cocked up\".

 

[rbowman]

On 21 Apr 2023 11:51:38 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

In that situation, you\'d get more engine braking if you changed down (it
would try to rev the engine faster) but it wouldn\'t be good for the
engine.

As long as you don\'t over-rev the engine it\'s not a problem. Dump it from
5th to 4th when you\'re at the upper end of the rpm range in 5th and you
might be picking up pieces.

 

[rbowman]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 11:11:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am not sure what the current EU mandated legality is in the UK, (we
haven\'t changed any of it since we left) but when I learnt to drive in
the 1960s there was no requirement to take even a single lesson. Many
people who learn to drive during WWII never had to take a test either.
All you did was present yourself at a test centre with a car.
The inspector jumped in and off you went.

The high school I went to had a driver ed course but I was too young to
enroll. You had to be 16 to get a lerner\'s permit so my father taught me
to drive. After several thousand miles on roads ranging from dirt to the
Thruway the final test was a trip to the World\'s Fair in NYC to see how I
did in big city traffic. Then he declared I was ready to take the formal
test.