Only one EV charger at home?!...

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:54:55 +1000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:

On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain :)


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use
that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using
the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual
cars.
Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have seen
are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.

Bloody hell, we never do that and the the driving school
cars dont have any pedals in the passenger seat either.

Most choose to learn to drive in their own car and the
driving school does have a few cars that they use for
teaching those that don\'t have a car, but they are
normal cars, no extra pedals.

That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that
says you can not drive manuals.
Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I don\'t know how those particular tests are done. My guess is, it is
provided by the driving school as well.

No it is not. And I have just taught two who are married
to drive here and they both passed the test the first time.

And when they moved to Sydney from a NSW country town
600km away, initially I went along in the car with them and
their 1 year old, in case they decided that it was a bit far for
those two to drive for the first time, in reality I drove all the
way because he is notorious for changing his mind as often
as he changes his shirt and decided on the spur of the
moment to leave the country town at midnight after
not having had any sleep for 24 hours.

We arrived very late in Sydney after not stopping for any
more than a couple of minutes for fuel on the way, because
that car produced a very odd noise on the grooved concrete
road down the mountains to ensure cars don\'t slip in icy
conditions and I had to stop to check what was doing that.

I was coming back home by train because they were short
of money. I normally fly. I had booked the train trip before
leaving the country town and it only runs once a day to my
country town, first thing in the morning.

I pulled up at the lights outside the central railway station
with minutes to spare without knowing where the country
rail lines were in by far the biggest railway station in the
entire country, I pulled up at the lights, turned to him and
said \"I\'m off\" with no warning, grabbed my bag and left
the car. He was bit stunned but managed fine, even
managed to work out how to get onto the Sydney Harbour
Bridge that he needed to get to the north side of Sydney
Harbour where he needed to go, driving for the first time
in the biggest most complicated state capital city in the
country.

I managed to miss the train by minutes and he managed
to come back into the city fine in the evening again that
evening. Using the satbav in his Nokia phone both times.
 
I\'m curious. The \"About\" for the group, sci.electronics.design, says \"Electronic circuit design\".

But, it seems like hardly any of the content is actually about any of that, not science, not electronics, really not design except in a complaining sort of way about societal fungshwei.

That\'s okay, it is probably as much fun as electronics for some. But, maybe we should change the \"About\" text?
 
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment
to your driving style to accommodate the small difference. Especially
since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how they
arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off.  The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so you
just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the brake
become \"hard\".

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped, press
the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it suddenly
became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 
On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 03:19:09 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin\'s latest trollshit unread>

--
R Souls addressing the trolling senile Australian cretin:
\"Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now fuck off.\"
MID: <urs8jh59laqeeb0seg1erij61m383reog5@4ax.com>
 
On 2023-04-20 19:19, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:54:55 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
 where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain :)


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use
that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of
using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
 My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual
cars.
 Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have
seen are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.

Bloody hell, we never do that and the the driving school
cars dont have any pedals in the passenger seat either.

Most choose to learn to drive in their own car and the
driving school does have a few cars that they use for
teaching those that don\'t have a car, but they are
normal cars, no extra pedals.

https://images.app.goo.gl/jvTPVT5LPmVpP8ma7

This is an old, old one:

https://images.app.goo.gl/QEgwshgZ1ug9xsES6
<https://www.diariomotor.com/tecmovia/2011/09/07/el-coche-retro-de-autoescuela-segun-ford/>


 That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that
says you can not drive manuals.
 Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I don\'t know how those particular tests are done. My guess is, it is
provided by the driving school as well.

No it is not. And I have just taught two who are married
to drive here and they both passed the test the first time.

I meant \"here, the car is provided by the driving school\"

....
--
Cheers, Carlos.
 
Please do not remove group names. I restored them.

On 2023-04-20 19:29, M Nelson wrote:
I\'m curious. The \"About\" for the group, sci.electronics.design, says \"Electronic circuit design\".

But, it seems like hardly any of the content is actually about any of that, not science, not electronics, really not design except in a complaining sort of way about societal fungshwei.

That\'s okay, it is probably as much fun as electronics for some. But, maybe we should change the \"About\" text?

I don\'t see any \"about\".

But conversation often drift. The initial question was related somewhat
to electronics, then it drifted.

Yes, there are some threads about electronic design. And some about
politics.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 
On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 2:00:13 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Please do not remove group names. I restored them.

I don\'t know what that refers to. I don\'t recall removing anything.
 
On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 03:54:19 +1000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:

On 2023-04-20 19:19, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:54:55 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain :)


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use
that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of
using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual
cars.
Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have
seen are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on the
other seat.
Bloody hell, we never do that and the the driving school
cars dont have any pedals in the passenger seat either.
Most choose to learn to drive in their own car and the
driving school does have a few cars that they use for
teaching those that don\'t have a car, but they are
normal cars, no extra pedals.

https://images.app.goo.gl/jvTPVT5LPmVpP8ma7

We have never done it like that, just use normal unmodified
cars, both when learning in your own car and when using
the car provided by the driving school..

This is an old, old one:

https://images.app.goo.gl/QEgwshgZ1ug9xsES6
https://www.diariomotor.com/tecmovia/2011/09/07/el-coche-retro-de-autoescuela-segun-ford/



That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that
says you can not drive manuals.
Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I don\'t know how those particular tests are done. My guess is, it is
provided by the driving school as well.

No it is not. And I have just taught two who are married
to drive here and they both passed the test the first time.

I meant \"here, the car is provided by the driving school\"

Yeah, I realised that\'s what you meant, but here, most
do the test in their own car. Only those who don\'t have
a car use the driving school car, and the driving school
cars are unmodified cars, no extra pedals at all.
 
On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment
to your driving style to accommodate the small difference.
Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery
for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off.  The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so you
just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the brake
become \"hard\".

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped, press
the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it suddenly
became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

My father had a couple of Citroens, with their hydraulically assisted
brakes. There was an accumulator to allow the brakes to stop the car if
the engine failed, but after a couple of presses, there was NO
noticeable braking at all. When I had to tow him, we used a rigid bar,
as he effectively had no brakes and I needed to brake for both cars.
Luckily we were only going a mile and a half to a garage.
 
On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 06:09:31 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

--
R Souls addressing the trolling senile Australian cretin:
\"Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now fuck off.\"
MID: <urs8jh59laqeeb0seg1erij61m383reog5@4ax.com>
 
On 2023-04-20 22:48, SteveW wrote:
On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment
to your driving style to accommodate the small difference.
Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery
for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off.  The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so you
just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the brake
become \"hard\".

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped,
press the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it
suddenly became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

My father had a couple of Citroens, with their hydraulically assisted
brakes. There was an accumulator to allow the brakes to stop the car if
the engine failed, but after a couple of presses, there was NO
noticeable braking at all. When I had to tow him, we used a rigid bar,
as he effectively had no brakes and I needed to brake for both cars.
Luckily we were only going a mile and a half to a garage.

In my case, the brakes did work, but you had to press really hard.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 
On 2023-04-20 22:07, M Nelson wrote:
On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 2:00:13 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Please do not remove group names. I restored them.

I don\'t know what that refers to. I don\'t recall removing anything.

You did it again.

You have to post, at the same time, to three groups in a single post. If
you don\'t, there are people that will not see your post.

alt.home.repair, uk.d-i-y, sci.electronics.design

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 
On 2023-04-20, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-20 22:07, M Nelson wrote:
On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 2:00:13 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Please do not remove group names. I restored them.

I don\'t know what that refers to. I don\'t recall removing anything.

You did it again.

If he\'s posting through Google Groups, they don\'t give him any choice.
He can only post to the newsgroup where he\'s reading.

You have to post, at the same time, to three groups in a single post. If
you don\'t, there are people that will not see your post.

alt.home.repair, uk.d-i-y, sci.electronics.design

--
Cindy Hamilton
 
torsdag den 20. april 2023 kl. 22.48.30 UTC+2 skrev SteveW:
On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment
to your driving style to accommodate the small difference.
Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery
for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off. The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so you
just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the brake
become \"hard\".

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped, press
the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it suddenly
became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.
My father had a couple of Citroens, with their hydraulically assisted
brakes. There was an accumulator to allow the brakes to stop the car if
the engine failed, but after a couple of presses, there was NO
noticeable braking at all. When I had to tow him, we used a rigid bar,
as he effectively had no brakes and I needed to brake for both cars.
Luckily we were only going a mile and a half to a garage.

it is the same for vacuum assist
 
On 2023-04-20 22:09, Rod Speed wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 03:54:19 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 19:19, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:54:55 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car
decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use
regen or friction brakes. For example mostly regen
if the battery can take it, but at low speeds
friction might be used for the last few mph down to
zero where regen is weak. Also in an emergency stop
both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator
pedal? Does it just coast along, or does it apply
\"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs
you can adjust the retardation (regen) in a number of
steps from coasting through to quite aggressive
braking. Coasting is more like a regular
transmission where you have to use the brake pedal,
whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
 where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain :)


and on those the (gasoline) car brakes somewhat when
the accelerator pedal is released. We use that to
maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead
of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.
 My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual
cars.
 Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have
seen are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on
the other seat.
 Bloody hell, we never do that and the the driving school
cars dont have any pedals in the passenger seat either.
 Most choose to learn to drive in their own car and the
driving school does have a few cars that they use for
teaching those that don\'t have a car, but they are
normal cars, no extra pedals.

https://images.app.goo.gl/jvTPVT5LPmVpP8ma7

We have never done it like that, just use normal unmodified
cars, both when learning in your own car and when using
the car provided by the driving school..

AFAIK, that is forbidden here.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
 
On 4/20/2023 2:23 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 22:48, SteveW wrote:
On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it,
but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can
adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through
to quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular
transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple
adjustment to your driving style to accommodate the small
difference. Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge
your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by
an electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off.  The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so
you just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the
brake become \"hard\".

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped,
press the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it
suddenly became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

My father had a couple of Citroens, with their hydraulically assisted
brakes. There was an accumulator to allow the brakes to stop the car
if the engine failed, but after a couple of presses, there was NO
noticeable braking at all. When I had to tow him, we used a rigid bar,
as he effectively had no brakes and I needed to brake for both cars.
Luckily we were only going a mile and a half to a garage.

In my case, the brakes did work, but you had to press really hard.

That has been the case for every \"assisted\" hydraulic or vacuum brake
system I have ever had. Usually, I can get up to 3 full foot stroke
stops before the assist goes away. If I don\'t let the pedal rise much,
just enough to not be slowing me down, I can get several more brake
applications. Useful if lined up in stop and go traffic on a mild hill
with the engine off to save gas.
 
On 20/04/2023 22:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 22:48, SteveW wrote:
On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it,
but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can
adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through
to quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular
transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple
adjustment to your driving style to accommodate the small
difference. Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge
your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by
an electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off.  The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so
you just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the
brake become \"hard\".

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped,
press the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it
suddenly became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

My father had a couple of Citroens, with their hydraulically assisted
brakes. There was an accumulator to allow the brakes to stop the car
if the engine failed, but after a couple of presses, there was NO
noticeable braking at all. When I had to tow him, we used a rigid bar,
as he effectively had no brakes and I needed to brake for both cars.
Luckily we were only going a mile and a half to a garage.

In my case, the brakes did work, but you had to press really hard.

That\'s normal for most cars, using vacuum servos to assist the existing
brake master cylinder. Citroens are different (they seem to like to be
weird), using a hydraulic pump to power the brakes (it also powers the
power steering and the rising and falling suspension), with a small
accumulator. Once that accumulator is emptied, not only is there no
assistance, but there are no brakes at all.
 
On 20/04/2023 22:56, Bob F wrote:
On 4/20/2023 2:23 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 22:48, SteveW wrote:
On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car
decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it,
but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can
adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through
to quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular
transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake
action, we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple
adjustment to your driving style to accommodate the small
difference. Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge
your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to
apply them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by
an electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the
engine off.  The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so
you just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the
brake become \"hard\".

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped,
press the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it
suddenly became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was
spent.

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

My father had a couple of Citroens, with their hydraulically assisted
brakes. There was an accumulator to allow the brakes to stop the car
if the engine failed, but after a couple of presses, there was NO
noticeable braking at all. When I had to tow him, we used a rigid
bar, as he effectively had no brakes and I needed to brake for both
cars. Luckily we were only going a mile and a half to a garage.

In my case, the brakes did work, but you had to press really hard.


That has been the case for every \"assisted\" hydraulic or vacuum brake
system I have ever had.

But not some Citroens, where everything is hydraulically driven and not
just assisted. A few presses and the brakes give up completely.

Usually, I can get up to 3 full foot stroke
stops before the assist goes away. If I don\'t let the pedal rise much,
just enough to not be slowing me down, I can get several more brake
applications. Useful if lined up in stop and go traffic on a mild hill
with the engine off to save gas.

Yes, when running low on petrol, I once coasted for a number of miles
coming down from the Pennines. The car did not have power steering, so
that did not get harder, but the brakes took a lot of effort.
 
On 20/04/2023 22:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 22:09, Rod Speed wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 03:54:19 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 19:19, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 20:54:55 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 00:27, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car
decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use
regen or friction brakes.  For example mostly regen
if the battery can take it, but at low speeds
friction might be used for the last few mph down to
zero where regen is weak.  Also in an emergency stop
both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator
pedal? Does it just coast along, or does it apply
\"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs
you can adjust the retardation (regen) in a number of
steps from coasting through to quite aggressive
braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission where
you have to use the brake pedal,
whereas with higher levels you can drive with accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
 where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain :)


and on those the (gasoline) car brakes somewhat when
the accelerator pedal is released. We use that to
maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead
of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.
 My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on
manual cars.
 Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

The test is done in the driving school car, and all of them I have
seen are manual shift.

You could use another car, but it has to be fitted with pedals on
the other seat.
 Bloody hell, we never do that and the the driving school
cars dont have any pedals in the passenger seat either.
 Most choose to learn to drive in their own car and the
driving school does have a few cars that they use for
teaching those that don\'t have a car, but they are
normal cars, no extra pedals.

https://images.app.goo.gl/jvTPVT5LPmVpP8ma7

We have never done it like that, just use normal unmodified
cars, both when learning in your own car and when using
the car provided by the driving school..

AFAIK, that is forbidden here.

In the UK, manual driving school cars usually have a brake and clutch on
the passenger side and the instructor is trained in methods to grab the
wheel, while knocking the pupil\'s hand away from the wheel (two
different moves, depending upon which way the instructor needs to steer).

Anyone with a licence that they have had for at least 3 years and being
over 21, can instruct a learner in a normal, unmodified car. The learner
can take the test in an unmodified car, but most use their instructor\'s
driving school car.
 
On Thursday, 20 April 2023 at 15:56:10 UTC-7, SteveW wrote:
On 20/04/2023 22:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 22:48, SteveW wrote:
On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it,
but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can
adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through
to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular
transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple
adjustment to your driving style to accommodate the small
difference. Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge
your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by
an electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off. The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so
you just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the
brake become \"hard\".

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped,
press the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it
suddenly became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

My father had a couple of Citroens, with their hydraulically assisted
brakes. There was an accumulator to allow the brakes to stop the car
if the engine failed, but after a couple of presses, there was NO
noticeable braking at all. When I had to tow him, we used a rigid bar,
as he effectively had no brakes and I needed to brake for both cars.
Luckily we were only going a mile and a half to a garage.

In my case, the brakes did work, but you had to press really hard.
That\'s normal for most cars, using vacuum servos to assist the existing
brake master cylinder. Citroens are different (they seem to like to be
weird), using a hydraulic pump to power the brakes (it also powers the
power steering and the rising and falling suspension), with a small
accumulator. Once that accumulator is emptied, not only is there no
assistance, but there are no brakes at all.

Many cars use the Bosch iBooster which is comprised of an electric hydraulic pump with an accumulator.

It is common on electric cars as they don\'t have a free source of vacuum.

kw
 

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top