Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Bob F]

On 4/19/2023 12:54 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at
low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment to
your driving style to accommodate the small difference. Especially
since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how they
arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply them
or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

I suspect that there is a range of pedal motion that works that way, and
an always apply friction brakes range beyond that. But maybe not.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 22:04, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 12:59:35 UTC-7, Carlos E.R. wrote:
...
Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how they
arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply them
or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.
...

They all have mechanical override that even works without power, same with steering.

This technology has been around with hybrids for 20+ years.

Oh... ok.

must be complex.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:52:52 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,

where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.
Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that says
you can not drive manuals.

Really, here in the 21st century, manual transmissions make as much
sense as dial phones.

Which the kids can\'t use either.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 12:22:15 -0700 (PDT), \"ke...@kjwdesigns.com\"
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 12:01:16 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...
The Sierra crest on I80 is 7227 feet. The descent is steep on both
sides.

It must be tough on electrics when it\'s stop-and-go in a blizzard
headed uphill. ...

The propulsion requirements drop dramatically in stop-and-go traffic. It makes up for the extra energy used for heating which is only couple of kW in the Teslas with their heat pump. 70mph needs about 15-20kW.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7i8ufcz1mq6fuuo/Tesla_1.jpg?raw=1

That charger is rarely used. When Safeway is busy, other people park
there.

That charging station is poorly located for the traffic passing through, it is close to the top of i80. If traveling to Reno the downhill stretch will return a lot of energy.

The people I know who travel to the Tahoe area charge at the cabin/motel.

kw

Always drive downhill.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 1:43:03 PM UTC-7, Bob F wrote:

On 4/19/2023 12:54 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at
low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment to
your driving style to accommodate the small difference. Especially
since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how they
arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply them
or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Are there real modern cars (except Russian) that are not \"by wire\"? Non-powered brakes?

I suspect that there is a range of pedal motion that works that way, and
an always apply friction brakes range beyond that. But maybe not.

On-board BMS estimates how much power can be pumped back to the battery. Beyond that, use friction brakes.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 13:52:26 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
....

That charging station is poorly located for the traffic passing through, it is close to the top of i80. If traveling to Reno the downhill stretch will return a lot of energy.

The people I know who travel to the Tahoe area charge at the cabin/motel.

kw

Always drive downhill.

Helps if the rear wheels are larger than the front ones...

kw

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 13:55:27 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
....

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply them
or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.
Are there real modern cars (except Russian) that are not \"by wire\"? Non-powered brakes?
I suspect that there is a range of pedal motion that works that way, and
an always apply friction brakes range beyond that. But maybe not.
On-board BMS estimates how much power can be pumped back to the battery. Beyond that, use friction brakes.

Varies with car - Tesla is unusual in not using blended brakes. The brake pedal does not control regeneration. It is completely controlled by the throttle pedal.

Getting good brake feel is difficult with blended brakes - Toyota struggled for years to do it.

kevin

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 21:16, Rod Speed wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:30:16 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:09, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes.  The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes.  For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak.  Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission
 In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission.  In 2022, 1.2%.  Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Is there an explanation for the increase?

Most likely more small foreign cars.

It is cheaper, too.

The website where I got those statistics thinks it\'s young people.
https://jalopnik.com/manual-transmission-sales-double-stick-shift-take-rate-1850184123

--
Cindy Hamilton

 

[Ed Lee]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 13:55:27 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
...

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply them
or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.
Are there real modern cars (except Russian) that are not \"by wire\"? Non-powered brakes?
I suspect that there is a range of pedal motion that works that way, and
an always apply friction brakes range beyond that. But maybe not.
On-board BMS estimates how much power can be pumped back to the battery.. Beyond that, use friction brakes.
Varies with car - Tesla is unusual in not using blended brakes. The brake pedal does not control regeneration. It is completely controlled by the throttle pedal.

I can see \"tree\" regen on my Leaf when braking.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 14:30:53 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
....

On-board BMS estimates how much power can be pumped back to the battery. Beyond that, use friction brakes.
Varies with car - Tesla is unusual in not using blended brakes. The brake pedal does not control regeneration. It is completely controlled by the throttle pedal.
I can see \"tree\" regen on my Leaf when braking.

Teslas also show regeneration when braking because your foot would be off the throttle.

But in the case of Tesla the regeneration does not increase when braking is applied. That way they can separate the braking and regeneration controls to get a braking feel more like a conventional vehicle - there are no discontinuities in braking force relative to brake pedal pressure when friction braking is added to regeneration.

kw

 

[Rod Speed]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:48:14 +1000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:

On 2023-04-19 21:16, Rod Speed wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:30:16 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:09, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission
In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Is there an explanation for the increase?
Most likely more small foreign cars.

It is cheaper, too.

Sure, but that has always been the case and doesnt explain
why there has been a recent increase in the percentage bought.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:52:52 +1000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at
low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where
regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive
with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,
where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.
My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.

Are you saying you don\'t get tested in your own car or
the one from the driving school you learnt to drive in ?

That would make it harder to pass the test, in an unfamiliar car.

Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that says
you can not drive manuals.

Yeah, we have the same system in Australia,
but you get to supply the car you get tested in.

I got an Audi with the 6-speed automatic, but it\'s the Borg Warner
dual-clutch transmission without a torque converter. It has two gear
trains, odd and even, and switches between them. I grudgingly admit
that they were right. But it does have good engine braking on long
downhills, and I can manually select any of the 6 gears if I want to.
It\'s incremental, like a motorcycle.
It also has the gadget that locks the brakes if you stop on a steep
uphill, so it doesn\'t roll back and crash the car behind you.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 20. april 2023 kl. 00.24.04 UTC+2 skrev Rod Speed:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:48:14 +1000, Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid
wrote:

On 2023-04-19 21:16, Rod Speed wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:30:16 +1000, Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:09, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission
In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Is there an explanation for the increase?
Most likely more small foreign cars.

It is cheaper, too.
Sure, but that has always been the case and doesnt explain
why there has been a recent increase in the percentage bought.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/young-people-and-enthusiast-cars-are-saving-manual-transmissions

 

[Rod Speed]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 06:04:33 +1000, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home>
wrote:

\"Rod Speed\" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:42:26 +1000, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 13:09:45 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Interesting. I prefer a manual

I have up till now and have always got one but now realise
that given I want a fancy cruise control for long distance
trips that an automatic would work a lot better and would
be convenient around town too.

My manual (2016 Chevy Colorado) has cruise control.

But not the best cruise control. Honda works fine in
traffic jams as well as on the highway and thats not
going to work as well in a manual as an automatic
because you would need to change gears manually.

I also want a cruise control that tracks the speed limit
so that I dont have to do anything except keep steering
when I have to slow down in towns on a long trip and
slow down automatically in the speed restricted areas
like our school zones where you have to change down
to a lower than overdrive gear which you use on highways.

> It was the only pickup truck I could find with a manual that year.

 

[SteveW]

On 18/04/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.


And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

There are plenty of videos online of failing to release and pouring
petrol all over the forecourt or drivers driving off with the nozzle
still left in the filler, snapping hoses off or even pulling pumps over.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

We don\'t have to hold the nozzle here. One latches the valve thing and
it shuts off when the tank is full. Meanwhile, wash the windows or
reorganize the junk in the car or buy a bag of Cheetos.

The latch mechanism is present on UK pumps (it is a standard design),
but the pin is removed to prevent it locking.

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

I haven\'t seen a petrol station in the UK with attendant service for
many years - although I have seen one within the last 10 years right on
the Northern Ireland border. Even there, it is only attendant service at
very busy times.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:36:39 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 14:30:53 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
...
On-board BMS estimates how much power can be pumped back to the battery. Beyond that, use friction brakes.
Varies with car - Tesla is unusual in not using blended brakes. The brake pedal does not control regeneration. It is completely controlled by the throttle pedal.
I can see \"tree\" regen on my Leaf when braking.
Teslas also show regeneration when braking because your foot would be off the throttle.

But in the case of Tesla the regeneration does not increase when braking is applied. That way they can separate the braking and regeneration controls to get a braking feel more like a conventional vehicle - there are no discontinuities in braking force relative to brake pedal pressure when friction braking is added to regeneration.

So, it\'s not regening fully. I want to add a hand brake to regen my expansion battery via a booster. Normally, my expansion battery is tied to the main with a lag (M->E when full and E->M when empty). A booster (10% more voltage) should be able to charge it better.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 15:45:49 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
...

But in the case of Tesla the regeneration does not increase when braking is applied. That way they can separate the braking and regeneration controls to get a braking feel more like a conventional vehicle - there are no discontinuities in braking force relative to brake pedal pressure when friction braking is added to regeneration.
So, it\'s not regening fully. I want to add a hand brake to regen my expansion battery via a booster. Normally, my expansion battery is tied to the main with a lag (M->E when full and E->M when empty). A booster (10% more voltage) should be able to charge it better.

What do you mean by \'fully\'?

The Teslas are designed to regenerate \'fully\' when your foot is off the throttle independent of whether you are braking.

The PWM motor controller works as a booster during regeneration when the back-emf is less than the battery voltage. It can regenerate down to a few mph when the amount of kinetic energy available is minimal (kinetic energy is proportional to the square of speed). There is not much to lose when the friction brakes are applied at low speed.

I normally use single pedal driving where I don\'t use the brake anyway, the car automatically applies the friction brakes when the car has almost slowed to a stop.

kw

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:49:12 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:38:37 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On 19 Apr 2023 15:00:56 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 07:10:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/04/2023 01:35, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:59:05 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

So the filling isn\'t 4 minutes? I think it\'s a litre a second in the
UK. Hardly slow enough to want to wander off. By the time I\'d walked
to the other end of the car and back it would be full.

By law in the US the maximum rate is 10 US gallons per minute (37.9
liters). As I stood in a snow squall this afternoon, 8.2 gallons took
forever.

I see that UTAH has had record snowfall this year. 50ft deep in the
mountains, extreme avalanche danger.

\"Our children just wont know what snow is\" etc..

At least in this valley we haven\'t had a lot of depth but the shit started
in early November

Fortunately for us, it snows nice clean white stuff here. You can even
eat it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpNn1nht0_8

So many guys think and talk compulsively about pee and poop... all the
time.

I think that\'s strange.

So many Americans can\'t bring themselves to say the word SHIT or EXCREMENT and say \"poop\".

In the UK, \"poop\" is something you\'d hear a 3 year old say - \"I need to poop!\"

 

[SteveW]

On 18/04/2023 16:41, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:51:13 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 02:15, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

On a long trip, I don\'t even think about planning ranges or charge
stops overlapping meals or whatever, or whether I can drive at some
speed or run the heater. All that seems to amuse some people.

On a long trip, I would take my petrol car. But for now, the EV is
covering all my needs. I have driven my petrol car once in the last two
and a half weeks - and that was to make sure that the battery didn\'t end
up flat.

I suppose having two cars gives you more options.

We actually have four at the moment. The MG4 EV is the everyday car. The
Vauxhall Zafira is the long-distance/tow/7-seater/carrying DIY materials
car and also the spare for if my disabled wife wants to go out while I
am at work. The Chevrolet Matiz (currently off the road pending an MOT)
is only retained for teaching my sons to drive (three sons, each two
years from the next). The Robin Hood kit-car is just for fun and also
awaiting an MOT when the weather gets better.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:36:19 +0100, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

On 4/19/2023 11:49 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:38:37 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On 19 Apr 2023 15:00:56 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 07:10:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/04/2023 01:35, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:59:05 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

So the filling isn\'t 4 minutes? I think it\'s a litre a second in the
UK. Hardly slow enough to want to wander off. By the time I\'d walked
to the other end of the car and back it would be full.

By law in the US the maximum rate is 10 US gallons per minute (37.9
liters). As I stood in a snow squall this afternoon, 8.2 gallons took
forever.

I see that UTAH has had record snowfall this year. 50ft deep in the
mountains, extreme avalanche danger.

\"Our children just wont know what snow is\" etc..

At least in this valley we haven\'t had a lot of depth but the shit started
in early November

Fortunately for us, it snows nice clean white stuff here. You can even
eat it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpNn1nht0_8

So many guys think and talk compulsively about pee and poop... all the
time.

I think that\'s strange.

It is because of where their brain is.

In America perhaps, hence \"get your ass over here\". The most important part of an American is their ass.

Maybe it\'s a misunderstanding and they mean the ass you rode into town on. An ass being a donkey. An arse being what you sit on.