Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:58:42 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:28:58 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 16:40:29 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.


And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

You\'re forgetting people are forgetful. If you leave it running and go do something else, you\'re very likely to forget to put the nozzle away and drive off with it attached, this causes a massive leak of gas and a massive fire.

Not a massive leak. The pump will shut off and there\'s just a little
liquid that would drool out of the hose.

And those hoses cost a fair bit to replace, and there\'s a pump out of action.

Why would the pump shut off? There\'s no longer a valve on the end.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:15:54 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 9:10:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:30:29 -0400, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid
wrote:

On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:


I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked),

Are you sure about that? I’d had my car for two years before realising that
the actual flap isn’t part of the central locking system.

which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state.

Every time? I just have mine set to charge for the same four hours every
night. No fiddling with apps involved.

If I’m charging away from home I just press the schedule override button
inside the charging flap to start charging immediately (on AC). On DC it
sensibly just ignores any set schedule.

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully? Special things like using a cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an option. If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.

Paul

Yikes, one more thing to factor into driving. Park for an hour and
open the windows and run the heater full blast? Hey, a new roadside
business could be DISCHARGE YOUR BATTERY HERE.

Discharging is never a problem and certainly not for an hour.

A decent amount of discharge, using the heater, would take a lot
longer.

I am 2 miles (elevation @100ft) from a charger near sea level, but have to go through a hill at @150ft. Even with brake downhill (acc from 20MPH to 40MPH), I can get there without any energy. If no cars are around, i can probably get another 20MPH over the limit and gain some energy.

Unfortunately, take around 2KWhr to get back home.

The Sierra crest on I80 is 7227 feet. The descent is steep on both
sides.

It must be tough on electrics when it\'s stop-and-go in a blizzard
headed uphill. I don\'t see many Teslas at the ski areas.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7i8ufcz1mq6fuuo/Tesla_1.jpg?raw=1

That charger is rarely used. When Safeway is busy, other people park
there.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 19/04/2023 14:09, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission

In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Yes, we know that Americans in general are too thick to drive a manual
And these days the autos are so good they mostly don\'t need to.

--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 19/04/2023 15:47, Sam E wrote:

On 4/18/23 16:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

[snip]

Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time they
crash.

Seen on the movies PPP

Mythbusters tested that. In order to get the car to explode, they had to
put a bomb in it.

Neverthless cars can and do catch fire in crashes, and a gasoline fire
can detonate if the fuel air mix gets within a critical range. Ok its
not like on the movies, but its pretty bad all the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MajA1FIvbpk

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 22:57:14 +1000, Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com>
wrote:

On 19/04/2023 11:09, Skid Marks wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 16:09:01 +1000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 22:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-18 18:49, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 05:32:35 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid
wrote:

What\'s interesting about the city cars, is the pricing, rather
than the capabilities. It shows how much effect that impact
resistance
and endless bullshit safety features have on vehicles. It\'s an
attempt
at an end-run around regulation. And it\'s the only style I know
of,
where people are experimenting with battery packs you can take in
the house.

Yikes. Battery packs catch fire.

So do gas powered vehicles, at a much higher rate per 1000 vehicles.

(0.3% for ev, 1.05% for gas cars).
Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time
they crash.
Seen on the movies PPP

At least gas cars don\'t generally go up in flames sitting in your
drive switched off.

Some do. A mate\'s Merc did that in his carport and
damned near took the entire house with it. No one was
home at the time and by a pure fluke someone who was
driving past noticed and called the fire brigade just in time.
How long does it take to put out an EV car fire?
How long does it take to put out a gas car fire?

Eurotunnel banned non-manufacturer LPG cars from the outset

That\'s not the gas cars being discussed, in this case gas is an
abreviation for gasoline.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 19/04/2023 17:13, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:43:20 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 04:55, Bob F wrote:
On 4/18/2023 6:30 PM, Paul wrote:
On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

...

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully?  Special things like using a
cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an
option.  If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.


So, Does the car software allow you to pre-plan the trip so it charges
appropriately, taking into account the magnitude of the hills both ways
and even reduce the charge before the trip to allow the battery to
absorb the maximum energy from those downhill legs, thereby using the
least energy possible?

It seems like tieing together the gps and the trip planning should be an
obvious next step in these systems.

Wow.

It needs to know also the weight of the cargo

And not allow any side trips or changes. The Tesla is in control of
everything.

I just jump into my car and drive... don\'t need permission from Elon.

I have \'jane\' - my tomtom navigator in my smart phone. God she nags if I
don\'t go her way. I know where the speed cameras are. To be sure so
does she, but she isnt programmable to avoid them.


--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance\"

- John K Galbraith

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:54:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
<CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:58:42 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:28:58 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 16:40:29 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.


And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

You\'re forgetting people are forgetful. If you leave it running and go do something else, you\'re very likely to forget to put the nozzle away and drive off with it attached, this causes a massive leak of gas and a massive fire.

Not a massive leak. The pump will shut off and there\'s just a little
liquid that would drool out of the hose.

And those hoses cost a fair bit to replace, and there\'s a pump out of action.

Why would the pump shut off? There\'s no longer a valve on the end.

The gas is stored in a tank underground. It takes an electric pump to
push gas up to the surface and through the hose. The pump shuts off
when the nozzle is not fully seated in the car filler and making a
vacuum seal. You can hear that.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/gas-pump.htm

\"If an absent-minded customer drives away with the nozzle still
inserted in the tank, the hose is designed to break into two pieces.
One remains with the car and the other with the dispenser. Check
valves on both sides of the breaking point prevent fuel from leaking
out of either half.\"

Really, this stuff has been thought about.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:30:16 +1000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:09, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2023-04-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at
low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where
regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive
with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission
In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Is there an explanation for the increase?

Most likely more small foreign cars.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 19/04/2023 17:41, NY wrote:

4 minutes to fill your tank. I tend to run my tank fairly low, so I\'m
often buying close to the maximum of 60 litres, and I\'ve had some pumps
that have taken that sort of time. I don\'t think I\'ve found a pump that
does it in as little as a minute. Are diesel pumps generally faster or
slower than unleaded pumps? Is one type of fuel more likely than the
other to foam up if the fuel is pumped too quickly?

If I try and fill my 70 litre tank in a minute it shuts off. About 4-5
minutes is as fast as the safety shite will let me fill it.


--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance\"

- John K Galbraith

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 19/04/2023 17:56, NY wrote:

The worst runaway coach accident I remember was Dibble\'s Bridge between
Pateley Bridge and Grassington (in North Yorkshire) in the 1970s. A
coach got out of control because its brakes failed and the driver muffed
his emergency gearchange to a lower gear (*) so the coach had *no*
engine braking. There were a lot of deaths when the coach hit the bridge
parapet (the bridge is on a bend in the road) and fell onto the bank of
the river/stream below.

I believe there was a TV documentary on that one. It was truly terrible.


--
\"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold.\"

― Confucius

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 12:01:16 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
....

The Sierra crest on I80 is 7227 feet. The descent is steep on both
sides.

It must be tough on electrics when it\'s stop-and-go in a blizzard
headed uphill. ...

The propulsion requirements drop dramatically in stop-and-go traffic. It makes up for the extra energy used for heating which is only couple of kW in the Teslas with their heat pump. 70mph needs about 15-20kW.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7i8ufcz1mq6fuuo/Tesla_1.jpg?raw=1

That charger is rarely used. When Safeway is busy, other people park
there.

That charging station is poorly located for the traffic passing through, it is close to the top of i80. If traveling to Reno the downhill stretch will return a lot of energy.

The people I know who travel to the Tahoe area charge at the cabin/motel.

kw

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 16:47, Sam E wrote:

On 4/18/23 16:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

[snip]

Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time they
crash.

Seen on the movies PPP

Mythbusters tested that. In order to get the car to explode, they had to
put a bomb in it.

I\'d like to see that one :-DD

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:42:26 +1000, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 13:09:45 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In 2021, 0.9% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. had a manual
transmission. In 2022, 1.2%. Thus far in 2023, 1.7%.

Interesting. I prefer a manual

I have up till now and have always got one but now realise
that given I want a fancy cruise control for long distance
trips that an automatic would work a lot better and would
be convenient around town too.

but wound up with AT in the last two cars.
When I bought the 2011 I\'d placed an order for a manual. My timing was
extremely bad since it was March 2011 and the model was manufactured in
Japan. On consideration I bought what was on the lot.

I briefly looked at the Toyota 86 when I bought my current ride. It had a
manual but also had a trunk suitable for one bag of groceries.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 12:22:19 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns..com wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 12:01:16 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...
The Sierra crest on I80 is 7227 feet. The descent is steep on both
sides.

It must be tough on electrics when it\'s stop-and-go in a blizzard
headed uphill. ...

The propulsion requirements drop dramatically in stop-and-go traffic. It makes up for the extra energy used for heating which is only couple of kW in the Teslas with their heat pump. 70mph needs about 15-20kW.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7i8ufcz1mq6fuuo/Tesla_1.jpg?raw=1

That charger is rarely used. When Safeway is busy, other people park
there.
That charging station is poorly located for the traffic passing through, it is close to the top of i80. If traveling to Reno the downhill stretch will return a lot of energy.

But they need it from both sides going to the top of I80.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:47:35 +1000, Sam E <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:

On 4/18/23 16:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

[snip]

Yeah. Don\'t buy an American gasoline car, they explode every time they
crash.
Seen on the movies PPP

Mythbusters tested that.

Nope.

> In order to get the car to explode, they had to put a bomb in it.

Doesn\'t explain my mate\'s Merc which caught fire
in his carport without even being in any crash at all.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:50:16 +1000, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:49:16 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


On 2023-04-19 06:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:18:52 +0100, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
On 18 Apr 2023 15:04:02 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW wrote:

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on
facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and
hold
the nozzle.

Back in the \'70s as stations started going to self-service and
the nozzles didn\'t have locks, someone came up with a simple
plastic widget to put on your key ring.

https://www.thegasgripper.com/

The original device was a flat piece of plastic to wedge under the
trigger.

Much more annoying are the \'vapor recovery\' nozzles that have
sort of a spring loaded foreskin that has to be peeled back to
enable flow. They\'re a real joy with a motorcycle tank.
California, of course, perfected the design to be a maximum pita.

It\'s no hassle for a car, and admittedly it forces a motorcyclist to
push the nozzle down to get the air seal.

It does keep a lot of gasoline vapor out of the air.

Never found a bit of vapour to be a problem. And vapor isn\'t a thing.

It is a lot of vapour. If the station is in the middle of the city, you
need getting a special permit, and if you promise to absorb the vapours
you are more likely to get the permit.

Something like 40 litres of explosive vapours per car.

It was an air pollution/smog issue. The gas pumps here are required to
recover the vapor from a fill-up (a gas tank full, typically) and
modern cars are required to not allow their tanks to export vapor.

Not even possible when filling the tank.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 16:58, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:28:58 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 16:40:29 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

....

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

You\'re forgetting people are forgetful. If you leave it running and go do something else, you\'re very likely to forget to put the nozzle away and drive off with it attached, this causes a massive leak of gas and a massive fire.

Not a massive leak. The pump will shut off and there\'s just a little
liquid that would drool out of the hose.

But your scenario rarely happens.

I have seen it on youtube recently.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-04-19 16:50, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:49:16 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


On 2023-04-19 06:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:18:52 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
On 18 Apr 2023 15:04:02 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW wrote:

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

Back in the \'70s as stations started going to self-service and
the nozzles didn\'t have locks, someone came up with a simple
plastic widget to put on your key ring.

https://www.thegasgripper.com/

The original device was a flat piece of plastic to wedge under the
trigger.

Much more annoying are the \'vapor recovery\' nozzles that have
sort of a spring loaded foreskin that has to be peeled back to
enable flow. They\'re a real joy with a motorcycle tank.
California, of course, perfected the design to be a maximum pita.

It\'s no hassle for a car, and admittedly it forces a motorcyclist to
push the nozzle down to get the air seal.

It does keep a lot of gasoline vapor out of the air.

Never found a bit of vapour to be a problem.  And vapor isn\'t a thing.

It is a lot of vapour. If the station is in the middle of the city, you
need getting a special permit, and if you promise to absorb the vapours
you are more likely to get the permit.

Something like 40 litres of explosive vapours per car.

It was an air pollution/smog issue. The gas pumps here are required to
recover the vapor from a fill-up (a gas tank full, typically) and
modern cars are required to not allow their tanks to export vapor.

I know.

There is no general mandate here, but I do remember when a new big gas
station was built, near a big neigborhood, they mentioned that they
absorbed the vapours.

However, I do not recall if it was all of it, or only the refill huge
tank. It may have been 15 years ago.

I see it is directive 2009/126/CE from Euro Parliament.

<https://industria.gob.es/Calidad-Industrial/seguridadindustrial/instalacionesindustriales/vapores-gasolina-recuperacion/Paginas/vapores-gasolina.aspx>

Wikipedia has a photo, but I don\'t remember seeing it.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperaci%C3%B3n_del_vapor

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Bob F]

On 4/19/2023 11:49 AM, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:38:37 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On 19 Apr 2023 15:00:56 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 07:10:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/04/2023 01:35, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:59:05 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

So the filling isn\'t 4 minutes? I think it\'s a litre a second in the
UK. Hardly slow enough to want to wander off. By the time I\'d walked
to the other end of the car and back it would be full.

By law in the US the maximum rate is 10 US gallons per minute (37.9
liters). As I stood in a snow squall this afternoon, 8.2 gallons took
forever.

I see that UTAH has had record snowfall this year. 50ft deep in the
mountains, extreme avalanche danger.

\"Our children just wont know what snow is\" etc..

At least in this valley we haven\'t had a lot of depth but the shit started
in early November

Fortunately for us, it snows nice clean white stuff here. You can even
eat it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpNn1nht0_8

So many guys think and talk compulsively about pee and poop... all the
time.

I think that\'s strange.

It is because of where their brain is.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 02:27:04 +1000, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at
low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where
regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive
with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,

where\'s that?

Spain.

and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

I got an Audi with the 6-speed automatic, but it\'s the Borg Warner
dual-clutch transmission without a torque converter. It has two gear
trains, odd and even, and switches between them. I grudgingly admit
that they were right. But it does have good engine braking on long
downhills, and I can manually select any of the 6 gears if I want to.
It\'s incremental, like a motorcycle.

It also has the gadget that locks the brakes if you stop on a steep
uphill, so it doesn\'t roll back and crash the car behind you.