Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:43:54 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.


And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

There are plenty of videos online of failing to release and pouring
petrol all over the forecourt or drivers driving off with the nozzle
still left in the filler, snapping hoses off or even pulling pumps over.

Including police. Mind you an American policeman has an average IQ of only 104.

Filling time is simply wasted time, as you have to stand there and hold
the nozzle.

We don\'t have to hold the nozzle here. One latches the valve thing and
it shuts off when the tank is full. Meanwhile, wash the windows or
reorganize the junk in the car or buy a bag of Cheetos.

The latch mechanism is present on UK pumps (it is a standard design),
but the pin is removed to prevent it locking.

So you could carry a pin round with you if you\'re an obese lazy American and urgently need a doughnut.

I think there are states where you still can\'t fill yourself, and an
employee does it for you.

I haven\'t seen a petrol station in the UK with attendant service for
many years - although I have seen one within the last 10 years right on
the Northern Ireland border. Even there, it is only attendant service at
very busy times.

There\'s one somewhere around Petersfield on the A3 west of London. One man garage, does car repairs and sells petrol.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:17:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/04/2023 17:41, NY wrote:

4 minutes to fill your tank. I tend to run my tank fairly low, so I\'m
often buying close to the maximum of 60 litres, and I\'ve had some pumps
that have taken that sort of time. I don\'t think I\'ve found a pump that
does it in as little as a minute. Are diesel pumps generally faster or
slower than unleaded pumps? Is one type of fuel more likely than the
other to foam up if the fuel is pumped too quickly?

If I try and fill my 70 litre tank in a minute it shuts off. About 4-5
minutes is as fast as the safety shite will let me fill it.

Where did you locate the accelerator pedal for the pump? Every pump I\'ve seen pumps at a fixed speed.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:16:06 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:54:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:58:42 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 05:28:58 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 16:40:29 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:53:23 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 18/04/2023 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 04:14:32 +0100, \"Commander Kinsey\"
CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:15:23 +0100, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

People here park on the street and just run a cable over the pavement.

I\'m lucky that I can usually park in front of my house, but that\'s not
guaranteed.

On street cleaning days, I park on another street. Envision a 500 foot
charging cable.



Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

If you\'re talking about a petrol pump and not an electric charger, WTF are you doing leaving it filling unattended? That\'s how this shit happens: https://media1.fdncms.com/orlando/imager/u/original/2826553/16832059_1350121135027085_3513683467753433350_n.jpg

Somehow I\'ve never done that. Electric car owners are the ones who
leave their cars unattended while they charge, because it takes so
long.


And 4 minutes? What are you doing, filling up a lorry? I fill my 50 litre petrol tank in one minute. Tell your garage to get faster pumps.

I like to wash and squeegee and wipe down my windows while the tank is
filling. That\'s what takes about 4 minutes about every two weeks,
unless I drive up into the mountains. It takes about 3/4 of a tank to
get to Truckee but only 1/2 to get back.

UK pumps cannot be operated unattended. They have the lock-on facility
disabled due to safety legislation.

Strange that there is a perceived safety issue. The auto shutoffs are
smarter than the average citizen.

You\'re forgetting people are forgetful. If you leave it running and go do something else, you\'re very likely to forget to put the nozzle away and drive off with it attached, this causes a massive leak of gas and a massive fire.

Not a massive leak. The pump will shut off and there\'s just a little
liquid that would drool out of the hose.

And those hoses cost a fair bit to replace, and there\'s a pump out of action.

Why would the pump shut off? There\'s no longer a valve on the end.

The gas is stored in a tank underground. It takes an electric pump to
push gas up to the surface and through the hose. The pump shuts off
when the nozzle is not fully seated in the car filler and making a
vacuum seal. You can hear that.

Then how come I\'ve seen videos of big fires? I think usually it must have been pumping. You see, the nozzle isn\'t there to block it anymore.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/gas-pump.htm

\"If an absent-minded

Not that absent minded. When I had a car without the little thing to hold the petrol cap on, I left it lying at a petrol station 15 times in 6 months.

customer drives away with the nozzle still
inserted in the tank, the hose is designed to break into two pieces.
One remains with the car and the other with the dispenser. Check
valves on both sides of the breaking point prevent fuel from leaking
out of either half.\"

No, they don\'t break in half, I\'ve seen pumps yanked out of the ground. Then you have that open pipe....

> Really, this stuff has been thought about.

They bothered with all that instead of just simply requiring the customer to hold onto it? Just how lazy are Americans?

 

[SteveW]

On 19/04/2023 10:41, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-19 03:30, Paul wrote:
On 4/18/2023 7:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 06:51:39 +0100, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

...

Why doesn\'t it always just charge fully?  Special things like using a
cheap rate or charging slowly to save the battery should be an
option.  If no input, fill her up at warp 9.8.

If you\'re skiing in the mountains and driving
back to Denver Colorado to catch a plane, that\'s
when you set your charger to 50% at the chalet.
Your \"tank\" will be full when you get to the airport,
because \"it is downhill all the way\". If you use
conventional friction brakes, the brakes can be hot.

With a BEV, you need to leave room in the \"tank\" for
the downhill trip, and your constant applications of
the regenerative brakes.

You adjust the charge level, for best battery (cycle) life,
and also so that the regenerative braking will work (because
it is \"free\" energy, when you use electrical-based braking).

Once the battery is 100% full, the car switches to using
friction brakes.

Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

I\'m just curious, I don\'t have an EV and I wonder how they do these things.

With ours is depends upon the mode set (ECO, Normal, Sport) and the
regeneration level set (None, medium, Strong). I generally have it set
to give more \"engine braking\" than an ICE car, but not so much that it
catches me out.

 

[SteveW]

On 19/04/2023 14:07, Theo wrote:

In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

Both. With a manual transmission you get some degree of engine braking, but
you coast if you open the clutch. Without actively changing down gear the
amount of engine braking is not massive - if you purely let off the
accelerator doing 70mph on a flat road in top gear you don\'t get very much
retardation.

It is possible to change down for more, but the engine isn\'t happy about it
unless you match revs first, so in general it\'s easier to use the brakes.

Engine braking is not something you\'d do around town or on a regular
motorway unless you\'re in a hilly area, so most people don\'t use it very
often.

Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town. These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 3:52:57 PM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 15:45:49 UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
..
But in the case of Tesla the regeneration does not increase when braking is applied. That way they can separate the braking and regeneration controls to get a braking feel more like a conventional vehicle - there are no discontinuities in braking force relative to brake pedal pressure when friction braking is added to regeneration.
So, it\'s not regening fully. I want to add a hand brake to regen my expansion battery via a booster. Normally, my expansion battery is tied to the main with a lag (M->E when full and E->M when empty). A booster (10% more voltage) should be able to charge it better.
What do you mean by \'fully\'?

The Teslas are designed to regenerate \'fully\' when your foot is off the throttle independent of whether you are braking.

The PWM motor controller works as a booster during regeneration when the back-emf is less than the battery voltage. It can regenerate down to a few mph when the amount of kinetic energy available is minimal (kinetic energy is proportional to the square of speed). There is not much to lose when the friction brakes are applied at low speed.

I normally use single pedal driving where I don\'t use the brake anyway, the car automatically applies the friction brakes when the car has almost slowed to a stop.

I don\'t think that the Leaf works the same. It won\'t slow much without the brake pedal. The regen energy seems not very efficient. Perhaps i need additional wheel alternators.

 

[SteveW]

On 19/04/2023 21:48, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:52:52 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 18:27, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:36:49 +0200, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission,

where\'s that?

My address says \"es\", thus Spain


and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

My wife and kid threatened to divorce me if I got one more
manual-transmission car. They couldn\'t drive a manual on the hills
here.

:-D

Till relatively recently, the driving test was done only on manual cars.
Now you can use an automatic, but you get an specific license that says
you can not drive manuals.

Really, here in the 21st century, manual transmissions make as much
sense as dial phones.

Which the kids can\'t use either.

My kids are currently learning on a manual. If they learned on an
automatic, they\'d be blocked from driving the majority of second-hand
cars, classic cars, my kit-car, most vans and (assuming that recent
consultation leads to a change back to the old rules, 7.5t trucks).

 

[SteveW]

On 18/04/2023 22:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-04-18 02:32, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:47:56 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-18 00:28, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:08:37 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 19:41, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:54:02 +0100, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-17 10:18, Martin Brown wrote:
On 16/04/2023 22:02, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 21:07, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:32:36 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
On 16/04/2023 20:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-16 20:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 16/04/2023 19:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2023 18:18:20 +0100, Colin Bignell
cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
On 16/04/2023 08:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/features/do-you-need-two-home-charge-points-if-you-have-two-evs/

\"Some products will have the ability to
“load share”, which means they will
communicate with each if two vehicles are
plugged in. In this scenario, they will
evenly split the power available so both cars charge at
the same rate, but this
will be at around 3-3.6kW – in other words half of the
available 7.4kW from
the supply.\"

WTF?  A UK home supply is 24kW.

The most common UK domestic contract is for a 17kVA supply.

Bollocks.  240V, 100A.  Never seen anything else.

There are also 80A and 60A main breakers, but
the limit to what you can draw is not what the
circuit is rated for, but what your contract with the
electricity supply company specifies
you can have.

Do you have some kind of hardware enforcing the limit?

I didn\'t work in the Commercial section, which was
responsible for the meter and company fuses, so I
don\'t know whether there was a limiter. As the
standing charges were based upon the contracted
supply, I assume there must have been some way to
enforce it.

There isn\'t.

That is a mere assumption on your part.

The meters only monitor how much you\'ve used, not how
fast you were using it.

They want you to use more, so they make more money!

\'They\' don\'t want anybody to exceed the capacity of the incomer.

The incomers in even quite old houses from the 1970\'s are
typically good for 100A though they are like mine often
fused at 60A or 80A. Our VH has exactly the same cabling
and 100A on each of the two available phases.

I expect just like with he 13A fuse in practice the
nominal 100A fuse will pass a considerably higher current
for a while before it fails.

My meter limits to 10A. This is an ancient contract, and the
meter is
modern, so in actual fact it can not limit under 15A. Design fault.

However, there is an external fuse on the external house
wall, which I think is 60A, and that is a hard limit. It
can not have a big margin because the company wires will
not take the current and will melt the insulation.

I don\'t understand how you can live with 10A.  Are you in a tent?  No
dishwasher, washing machine, kettle, microwave, computer, lights,
etc?

Well, I have all of that, except that the kettle is plain, not
electric, and the dishwasher has been broken for decades.

My dishwasher and washing machine both use 2-3kW.  That would be a bit
of a problem in your house.

Not really. When it was working, we put it on then went to sleep. All
the house was off except the machine.

But only one of them.  And not a quiet sleep.

Oh, very quiet. This house is big, there is some distance. Different
floor, and 4 doors between.

Modern machines are very quiet anyway. Our tumble-dryer is almost
inaudible. The (direct drive) washing machine is unnoticeable when
talking and hardly gets any louder when spinning!

You certainly don\'t notice them in the next room - even with the doors open.

 

[rbowman]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:03:47 +0100, SteveW wrote:

With ours is depends upon the mode set (ECO, Normal, Sport) and the
regeneration level set (None, medium, Strong). I generally have it set
to give more \"engine braking\" than an ICE car, but not so much that it
catches me out.

Or the driver behind you... At least in the US it takes brake lights to
convince some drivers you\'re slowing down. On a bike I often flick the
brake even though I can almost come to a complete stop running down
through the gears.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 16:57:25 UTC-7, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:03:47 +0100, SteveW wrote:

With ours is depends upon the mode set (ECO, Normal, Sport) and the
regeneration level set (None, medium, Strong). I generally have it set
to give more \"engine braking\" than an ICE car, but not so much that it
catches me out.
Or the driver behind you... At least in the US it takes brake lights to
convince some drivers you\'re slowing down. On a bike I often flick the
brake even though I can almost come to a complete stop running down
through the gears.

The brake lights do activate if there a deceleration from regeneration greater than about 0.2g. That is a Federal requirement and similar requirements exist for other countries.

kw

 

[rbowman]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:54:17 +0100, SteveW wrote:

The Robin Hood kit-car is just for fun and also awaiting an MOT when the
weather gets better.

That\'s another Lotus Seven variant? I only knew about Caterham. Getting
one of those into the US is an arcane process.

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 5:54:51 PM UTC-5, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:36:19 +0100, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/19/2023 11:49 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:38:37 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> writes:
On 19 Apr 2023 15:00:56 GMT, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 07:10:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/04/2023 01:35, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:59:05 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

So the filling isn\'t 4 minutes? I think it\'s a litre a second in the
UK. Hardly slow enough to want to wander off. By the time I\'d walked
to the other end of the car and back it would be full.

By law in the US the maximum rate is 10 US gallons per minute (37..9
liters). As I stood in a snow squall this afternoon, 8.2 gallons took
forever.

I see that UTAH has had record snowfall this year. 50ft deep in the
mountains, extreme avalanche danger.

\"Our children just wont know what snow is\" etc..

At least in this valley we haven\'t had a lot of depth but the shit started
in early November

Fortunately for us, it snows nice clean white stuff here. You can even
eat it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpNn1nht0_8

So many guys think and talk compulsively about pee and poop... all the
time.

I think that\'s strange.

It is because of where their brain is.

In America perhaps, hence \"get your ass over here\". The most important part of an American is their ass.

Maybe it\'s a misunderstanding and they mean the ass you rode into town on.. An ass being a donkey. An arse being what you sit on.

\"Get your ass over here\". is a boss talking to an employee who messed up something and is going to hear about it. Or it might just be between co workers, maybe friends. The speaker is expressing displeasure. \"Come over here\" is more of a polite request.

 

[rbowman]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:43:54 +0100, SteveW wrote:

I haven\'t seen a petrol station in the UK with attendant service for
many years - although I have seen one within the last 10 years right on
the Northern Ireland border. Even there, it is only attendant service at
very busy times.

There are a couple around here. A friend who was a quadriplegic but could
drive a specially fitted van used them. CostCo has an attendant that will
help handicapped people with no extra charge. The other full service
stations charged more for the gasoline but when operating the pump isn\'t
an option it was worth the few cents more. Some able bodied people who
were above the task also went to them.

 

[rbowman]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:58:58 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Including police. Mind you an American policeman has an average IQ of
only 104.

That\'s 20 points higher than most of those he deals with.

 

[rbowman]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:16:26 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

> Most likely more small foreign cars.

I would guess it\'s the \'hot hatchback\' segment like the Civic Type R, Golf
GTI, and GR Corolla rather than small foreign cars in general. Oddly the
Mazda 3 Turbo only comes with a 6 speed AT. That would appeal to the youth
market Cindy mentioned.

I don\'t care for 4 door hatchbacks or I wouldn\'t mind one. I\'d love a GR
Yaris but that ain\'t happening in the US.

Plain vanilla small foreign cars are mostly AT.

 

[rbowman]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:06:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yes, we know that Americans in general are too thick to drive a manual
And these days the autos are so good they mostly don\'t need to.

Not only that but modern ATs often get better mileage than MTs for the all
important EPA fleet bullshit.

 

[rbowman]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:04:28 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

And ours are 50 litres per minute (that\'s my full tank). You have
bigger cars with slower petrol....

You haven\'t seen anything until you\'ve seen a pickup with dual tanks. I
remember those sunny days of yore when gas pumps only went up to $99.99.

My tank only holds 42 liters. What sort of whale do you drive?

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 01:17:02 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:58:58 +0100, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Including police. Mind you an American policeman has an average IQ of
only 104.

That\'s 20 points higher than most of those he deals with.

Kafirs? I gather there\'s an orangutan or similar with 80. Nigerians are 65. This conclusively proves some of us devolved not evolved from apes.

No excuse for being that low though. Police ought te be 120+.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 01:15:43 +0100, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:43:54 +0100, SteveW wrote:

I haven\'t seen a petrol station in the UK with attendant service for
many years - although I have seen one within the last 10 years right on
the Northern Ireland border. Even there, it is only attendant service at
very busy times.

There are a couple around here. A friend who was a quadriplegic but could
drive a specially fitted van used them. CostCo has an attendant that will
help handicapped people with no extra charge. The other full service
stations charged more for the gasoline but when operating the pump isn\'t
an option it was worth the few cents more. Some able bodied people who
were above the task also went to them.

Nothing like that round here, but I\'m pretty sure if any disabled person was to ask, one of the people serving at the till, or no doubt another customer, would help.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 11:51:13 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 18/04/2023 02:15, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:46:35 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 17:50:00 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 17/04/2023 10:19, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
That\'s the problem. The 100A (or lower) supply is based on the
assumption of relatively short duration peak load and longer periods of
partial load, not long, large, continuous loads.

Car chargers run for many hours at a time, so two or three of those,
plus washing machine and tumble dryer (moved to night time for a cheaper
tariff), electric heaters, immersion heater and the possibility of the
electric oven and hob (according to my son, it\'s not unusual for
households with students to be baking cakes at 4am, after the
night-club!), plus someone getting up early and using the 10kW electric
shower and you have a load that the supply cable was never meant to take
continuously, plus a higher than normal peak to an already stressed supply.

EV chargers can be configured to sense the total load being offered by the
property. If the supply is 100A then the charger can throttle back the
current being taken by the car so it stays within the 100A envelope.
Somebody turns on the 50A electric shower, the car drops down to a low
current, once the shower is finished the car ramps up the current again. If
there are multiple chargers they can be configured not just to obey this,
but to cooperate in sharing the load: eg charger 1 has priority over charger
2. That arrangement saves going outside at 3am to unplug one car and plug
in another.

So there isn\'t a problem of busting your supply, assuming everything is
installed right.

My charger has no current sensing. It can operate co-operatively, but
only if your other charger(s) are the same make and model.

As well as that, if every house has something along those lines, the
entire street supply will be over-stretched.

That I agree is more of a problem. I expect we\'ll start to see tariffs that
encourage load shedding at times of high local demand (eg cooperation
between local cars to stagger their charging times), especially since the
miles people do in the average day might only require a few hours of
charging. Such already exist for national demand.

The trouble is that we are getting more and more away from simply plug
and charge, needing to use multiple apps for car, charger and
electricity provider, possibly with 3rd party apps and relying upon them
all working together smoothly.

I already find it a minor irritation that, on getting home, I have to
get out of the car, without locking it (or the charge flap will also be
locked), which leaves lights, radio and dash on; plug in; then lock the
car; then use the charger app to set charging and the car\'s own app if I
want to monitor charge state. That\'s before we introduce a 3rd app to
allow the car to charge at lower demand times, rather than a fixed period.

Gas stations don\'t make me do all that. I can even go inside and pay
cash.

But you do have to go to the gas station and not just park up on your
driveway at the end of the day.

I park on the street.

Two gas stations are close to home and I can wash the windows while
the tank fills up; all that takes about 4 minutes. I never have to
wait for a pump to be available.

On a long trip, I don\'t even think about planning ranges or charge
stops overlapping meals or whatever, or whether I can drive at some
speed or run the heater. All that seems to amuse some people.

On a long trip, I would take my petrol car. But for now, the EV is
covering all my needs. I have driven my petrol car once in the last two
and a half weeks - and that was to make sure that the battery didn\'t end
up flat.

What an interesting, time consuming, and expensive way to charge a battery.

I\'d disconnect it, and check the voltage once every 2 months, if it was too low, plug in a charger.

12.6V is full, 11.6V is 20%. Keep it above 12V (60%) so you can start it.