Mains power voltage drop to reduce usage?...

  • Thread starter Commander Kinsey
  • Start date
On 2022-11-07 00:58, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:45:03 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:06:29 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-06 22:37, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 21:33:29 -0000, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid
wrote:

On 06/11/2022 20:50, Tim+ wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 18:20:18 -0000, Cursitor Doom
cd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 17:13:16 +0000, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 06/11/2022 15:10, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 09:43:37 -0000,
Wanderer@noplace.com> wrote:

Sure, but we would need to replace all electrical
devices by the their Thevenin Equivalent.

Seriously, All electrical device need to use a certain
amount of power. We often convert the mains voltages
and currents to other voltages and currents that
devices can consume. There are probably some power
supplies that could use the lower voltages and
frequencies and get the same power. Some motors and
clocks may run slower but some would not work at all.
If we still had incandescent light bulbs they would be
dimmer, the reason for the old term \'brown out\'. Most
modern devices would not work and might even be
damaged.

So No.

A device getting damaged by not enough power is screaming
of bad design.

Not necessarily. We have a \"guaranteed\" minimum and maximum
supply voltage. Why should a company spend extra designing
and installing protection against supplies (not temporary
aberrations) outside them?

Yes, all sorts of issues if a power company messes around
with the voltage and frequency. If a consumer wants to
attempt  saving money in this way then the obvious thing to
try would be a variac. It won\'t change the frequency but does
enable one to reduce the supply voltage easily to whatever
device you wish to reduce the power to.

Not the same thing at all.  If you want to reduce usage, you
turn things down or off.  If the whole country wants to do that
over a short period due to high demand, they can\'t very well
phone everyone up and tell you to delay your coffee for half an
hour, they have to lower the voltage.


As has been explained, reducing voltage is a crap idea. You can
email folk and ask them to reduce consumption at peak time
though. I got refunds last December for doing this.

Eventually when we’re all on smart meters, more variable tariffs
will become available that will encourage this behaviour will
become the norm.

In Spain, where every one has to have a Smart Meter, there are
three different price bands.

I wasn\'t aware Spain was communist.

Actually, it was the right wing who did this. :p

Why would a right wing government do such a thing?

Because they are friends with the electricity companies, and they asked
nicely. Meaning, they both got more money.

Do you really want a meter which can overread by a factor of 5, in
particular on eco-stuff like LED lights!

Where do you get that idea?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4288180/Smart-meters-readings-SEVEN-times-high.html

\"smart meters can give readings that are SEVEN times too high because
dimmer switches and LED bulbs confuse the devices
Smart meters can be confused by modern dimmer switches and LED bulbs
Meters come up with readings that are 582 per cent higher than they
should be
It comes after an SSE had to apologise to customers earlier this week
after malfunctioning smart meters handed them bills for as much as
£44,000 a day
The Government wants them installed in all 26million homes by 2020\"

That last line, ROFL!  It\'s now 2022 and only half of us have one.


Well, no such thing here. This is a modern country :-D

Didn\'t you recently have a terrible poverty?  About a decade ago?

Nope.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 
On 2022-11-07 00:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:42:56 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:31, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:09:41 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-06 23:09, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 21:56:29 -0000, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid
wrote:

On 06/11/2022 21:37, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 21:33:29 -0000, David Wade
g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:

On 06/11/2022 20:50, Tim+ wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 18:20:18 -0000, Cursitor Doom
cd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 17:13:16 +0000, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 06/11/2022 15:10, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 09:43:37 -0000,
Wanderer@noplace.com> wrote:

Sure, but we would need to replace all electrical
devices by the their Thevenin Equivalent.

Seriously, All electrical device need to use a
certain amount of power. We often convert the mains
voltages and currents to other voltages and
currents that devices can consume. There are
probably some power supplies that could use the
lower voltages and frequencies and get the same
power. Some motors and clocks may run slower but
some would not work at all. If we still had
incandescent light bulbs they would be dimmer, the
reason for the old term \'brown out\'. Most modern
devices would not work and might even be damaged.

So No.

A device getting damaged by not enough power is
screaming of bad design.

Not necessarily. We have a \"guaranteed\" minimum and
maximum supply voltage. Why should a company spend
extra designing and installing protection against
supplies (not temporary aberrations) outside them?

Yes, all sorts of issues if a power company messes around
with the voltage and frequency. If a consumer wants to
attempt  saving money in this way then the obvious thing
to try would be a variac. It won\'t change the frequency
but does enable one to reduce the supply voltage easily
to whatever device you wish to reduce the power to.

Not the same thing at all.  If you want to reduce usage,
you turn things down or off.  If the whole country wants to
do that over a short period due to high demand, they can\'t
very well phone everyone up and tell you to delay your
coffee for half an hour, they have to lower the voltage.


As has been explained, reducing voltage is a crap idea. You
can email folk and ask them to reduce consumption at peak
time though. I got refunds last December for doing this.

Eventually when we’re all on smart meters, more variable
tariffs will become available that will encourage this
behaviour will become the norm.

In Spain, where every one has to have a Smart Meter, there are
three different price bands.

I wasn\'t aware Spain was communist.

Well given its not invested in energy infra-structure so supply is
often \"flaky\" makes it feel a bit like that at times.

I\'ve heard some parts of Italy only have a 3kW supply to each house!
 They have problems when buying 3kW kettles!

I have 2.3 KW on my entire house.

How the hell do you manage with that little power?

I just do :)

Typically, most homes have 3.6 KW. Max you can have is 15 KW.

The dark ages.

LOL. You really do not need more.

Do you really want a meter which can overread by a factor of 5,
in particular on eco-stuff like LED lights!

Its worse than that, you pay for it on your bill.  Mine costs
0.026667€ per day. I also have a contracted peak load. Exceed this
and it cuts out. That costs 0.091474 Eur/kW/day and changing the
value costs a fair amount.

What is your peak load?  Is this certain times of day only?  I can
draw 24kW, if that reduced I\'d be fucking angry.

LOL

Of course I don\'t often use that much, I\'ve never gone over 18kW, and
not over 8kW for any long period.

What do you need that much electricity for, you run a forge at home? :-D

An electric shower is 9kW.

Mine is zero, it runs on butane gas. When I use the electric water
heater, it is 1 Kw, buty mine is half that.

> An electric cooker is 8kW.

Mine is 1.8 Kw, induction. Very fast.

Does everyone in
your country have cold food and cold showers or use gas?

Nope, nope, and maybe. :)

In my case, a supercomputer.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 
It\'s not just distribution stations that are supplied from
the sub-transmission feeders - commercial, industrial,
residential, etc .. much with fixed tap transformers.

Why are they still fixed tap?

Cost and reliability, I\'d guess.
The feeder voltage is well regulated.
John T.
 
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 01:40:12 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:40:49 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:05:13 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-06 22:02, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 20:50:10 -0000, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com
wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 18:20:18 -0000, Cursitor Doom
cd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 17:13:16 +0000, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 06/11/2022 15:10, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 09:43:37 -0000,
Wanderer@noplace.com> wrote:

Sure, but we would need to replace all electrical
devices by the their Thevenin Equivalent.

Seriously, All electrical device need to use a
certain amount of power. We often convert the mains
voltages and currents to other voltages and currents
that devices can consume. There are probably some
power supplies that could use the lower voltages and
frequencies and get the same power. Some motors and
clocks may run slower but some would not work at all.
If we still had incandescent light bulbs they would
be dimmer, the reason for the old term \'brown out\'.
Most modern devices would not work and might even be
damaged.

So No.

A device getting damaged by not enough power is
screaming of bad design.

Not necessarily. We have a \"guaranteed\" minimum and
maximum supply voltage. Why should a company spend extra
designing and installing protection against supplies (not
temporary aberrations) outside them?

Yes, all sorts of issues if a power company messes around
with the voltage and frequency. If a consumer wants to
attempt saving money in this way then the obvious thing to
try would be a variac. It won\'t change the frequency but
does enable one to reduce the supply voltage easily to
whatever device you wish to reduce the power to.

Not the same thing at all. If you want to reduce usage, you
turn things down or off. If the whole country wants to do
that over a short period due to high demand, they can\'t very
well phone everyone up and tell you to delay your coffee for
half an hour, they have to lower the voltage.

As has been explained, reducing voltage is a crap idea. You can
email folk and ask them to reduce consumption at peak time
though. I got refunds last December for doing this.

Not so accurate though. Could they get you to turn things off at
a few seconds notice?

Eventually when we’re all on smart meters, more variable
tariffs will become available that will encourage this
behaviour will become the norm.

No smart meter will ever be installed in this house.

LOL.

It was not optional here.

You could always blow it up.

Sure. And be fined. And get another smart meter, or no electricity at
all.

It\'s only illegal if you\'re caught. You could blow up your neighbour\'s
meter.

Hardly. My meter is inside my house.

Unusual with modern housing (including my 1979 one). It makes it harder for them to inspect/read the meter.

Even if you don\'t get caught, they
would replace with another smart meter. You gain nothing.

But they would lose the cost of a meter.
 
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 01:44:28 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:42:56 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:31, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:09:41 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-06 23:09, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 21:56:29 -0000, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid
wrote:

On 06/11/2022 21:37, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Do you really want a meter which can overread by a factor of 5,
in particular on eco-stuff like LED lights!

Its worse than that, you pay for it on your bill. Mine costs
0.026667€ per day. I also have a contracted peak load. Exceed this
and it cuts out. That costs 0.091474 Eur/kW/day and changing the
value costs a fair amount.

What is your peak load? Is this certain times of day only? I can
draw 24kW, if that reduced I\'d be fucking angry.

LOL

Of course I don\'t often use that much, I\'ve never gone over 18kW, and
not over 8kW for any long period.

What do you need that much electricity for, you run a forge at home? :-D

An electric shower is 9kW.

Mine is zero, it runs on butane gas.

Unusual.

When I use the electric water
heater, it is 1 Kw, buty mine is half that.

WTF? That might heat a cup of coffee in a an hour.

An electric cooker is 8kW.

Mine is 1.8 Kw, induction. Very fast.

Induction doesn\'t make it more than 100% efficient.

In the UK we have things called cookers. 2 ovens, 1 grill, and 4 hobs.

Does everyone in
your country have cold food and cold showers or use gas?

Nope, nope, and maybe. :)

Sissies, sissies, and I thought the EU was banning gas?
 
On 06/11/2022 02:23 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Instead of rolling blackouts when there\'s a power shortage, why don\'t we
just allow (or deliberately) the voltage and frequency to drop?
Wouldn\'t that make a lot of devices use less?

That used to happen in some regions, about sixty years ago. One telltale
sign was that the picture on CRT TV tubes used to shrink in away from
the edges of the screen. Granada TV\'s news magazine even had an article
explaining it (circa 1962 / 1963).
 
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 01:45:14 -0000, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:58, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:45:03 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:06:29 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-06 22:37, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Do you really want a meter which can overread by a factor of 5, in
particular on eco-stuff like LED lights!

Where do you get that idea?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4288180/Smart-meters-readings-SEVEN-times-high.html

\"smart meters can give readings that are SEVEN times too high because
dimmer switches and LED bulbs confuse the devices
Smart meters can be confused by modern dimmer switches and LED bulbs
Meters come up with readings that are 582 per cent higher than they
should be
It comes after an SSE had to apologise to customers earlier this week
after malfunctioning smart meters handed them bills for as much as
£44,000 a day
The Government wants them installed in all 26million homes by 2020\"

That last line, ROFL! It\'s now 2022 and only half of us have one.


Well, no such thing here. This is a modern country :-D

Didn\'t you recently have a terrible poverty? About a decade ago?

Nope.

Spain, right? I watched a Top Gear episode about 10 years ago which showed completely empty areas of Spain where you\'d all moved out.
 
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 01:51:16 -0000, <hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:

It\'s not just distribution stations that are supplied from
the sub-transmission feeders - commercial, industrial,
residential, etc .. much with fixed tap transformers.

Why are they still fixed tap?

Cost and reliability, I\'d guess.
The feeder voltage is well regulated.

My local substation (was? they just replaced it after it got damaged due to somebody shorting something - no fuses, doh!) is fixed tap, but adjustable manually. They refused to adjust it to lower my high voltage because they\'d give someone else low voltage.
 
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 01:55:33 -0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:

On 06/11/2022 02:23 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Instead of rolling blackouts when there\'s a power shortage, why don\'t we
just allow (or deliberately) the voltage and frequency to drop?
Wouldn\'t that make a lot of devices use less?

That used to happen in some regions, about sixty years ago. One telltale
sign was that the picture on CRT TV tubes used to shrink in away from
the edges of the screen. Granada TV\'s news magazine even had an article
explaining it (circa 1962 / 1963).

Ah, Granada.... https://youtu.be/Yc3ZoxJ3yYs

Fucking shite quality.
 
On 07/11/2022 01:55, JNugent wrote:
On 06/11/2022 02:23 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Instead of rolling blackouts when there\'s a power shortage, why don\'t
we just allow (or deliberately) the voltage and frequency to drop?
Wouldn\'t that make a lot of devices use less?

That used to happen in some regions, about sixty years ago. One telltale
sign was that the picture on CRT TV tubes used to shrink in away from
the edges of the screen. Granada TV\'s news magazine even had an article
explaining it (circa 1962 / 1963).

Commander Kinsey is stupid enough to think that would actually work.

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
 
On 06/11/2022 22:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 22:33:44 -0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 06/11/2022 14:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Instead of rolling blackouts when there\'s a power shortage, why don\'t we
just allow (or deliberately) the voltage and frequency to drop?
Wouldn\'t that make a lot of devices use less?

Not any more.

Apart from resistive loads and motors almost all other consumer items
like TVs will simply draw more current at the lower voltage to maintain
a constant power output. My PC and other office kit will quite happily
run on 110v as will the LED lights. Incandescent lights are visibly
orange on that voltage and a kettle takes forever to boil.

But you\'re referring to small things that use very little power.
Normally, I can draw 6kW for computers.

They still make up the bulk of the load that domestic consumers present
to the grid.

This happens in rural locations when one phase out of two supplying a
village goes down and the remaining live phase is left taking the strain.

TWO?!

Yes! In rural UK the main distribution is full three phase on the main
lines but small villages are typically on spurs with just two live taps
and earth. Farmers have been quoted insane prices to be put on 3 phase.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
On 07-Nov-22 8:47 am, David Wade wrote:
On 06/11/2022 20:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 20:23:04 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid
wrote:

On 11/6/22 09:06, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

The other answers disagree, some loads would reduce, resistive heating
for example (including washing machine heaters).

The heaters are often temperature controlled, and will run longer to
make up for the reduced power.

But the idea is to reduce peak load.  Spreading that out for longer is
exactly what they\'re after.

If the peak load reduction is needed over say an hour, then as it only
takes a few minutes to boil a kettle or heat up a washing machine it
will make no difference. You will simply have more kettles on at the
same time. In fact it could make the peak load higher.

Assuming it takes five minutes when the voltage is full, and folks put
their kettles on sequentially, you load is one kettle.

If it goes up to 6 minutes but we still want 12 kettles per hour then
you need to start the second kettle while the first is still boiling, so
the load goes up to two kettles for one minute...

It\'s worse than that. All the time that the kettle is heating, it\'s
losing heat to the environment. So reduce the voltage, and thus power,
and it takes more energy to boil a kettleful, since more is wasted in
the process.

Sylvia.
 
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 02:40:12 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain dead
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered


Hardly. My meter is inside my house. Even if you don\'t get caught, they
would replace with another smart meter. You gain nothing.

Yep, THAT\'S the idiotic level any \"discussion\" with the Scottish wanker will
always reach ...inevitably! LOL
 
Don\'t be daft, most modern gear has switch mode psus and they usually have a
very vvery wide range of voltages, so they can build one model for the
world.
Older gear, like I use for hi if etc, as they still have tactile controls
will be hit most and older turntables that use the 50 hz in the uk to make
them run at the right speed would be unusable. However few of these about.
If the switch mode supplies are designed with the right disidisipation, I
see no reason why anything from 110v ac 60 hz and 250v ac 50 hz not to be
possible. I\'m sure Samsung TVs can do this, or at least most of them can.

Most chargers do this and things like shavers and toothbrushes do, cos it
says so on the bottom I\'m told.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
\"David Wade\" <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote in message
news:tk8oi9$36qcs$1@dont-email.me...
On 06/11/2022 14:23, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Instead of rolling blackouts when there\'s a power shortage, why don\'t we
just allow (or deliberately) the voltage and frequency to drop? Wouldn\'t
that make a lot of devices use less?

Recent research suggests \"no\" or perhaps not enough. At one time you could
buy transformers to reduce the houshold voltage with the aim of reducing
consumption. In the past where devices had conventional PSUs and we had
incandescence lights this worked.

With modern devices it doesn\'t really work well. Many devices have
switched mode PSU\'s which simply ramp up the input current to compensate
for the lack of voltage so you don\'t save any power.

So TVs, computers, USB chargers and many LED lighting systems. Even a
modern fridge has in effect a switched mode PSU so a variable frequency
inverter drive to the motor.

https://news.samsung.com/global/how-the-digital-inverter-compressor-has-transformed-the-modern-refrigerator

or

https://tinyurl.com/5n6uajmn

so that will simply increase the power input to maintain the motor speed.
I guess microwaves ovens are similar, and my hob is an induction hob so I
expect that adjusts its power depending on voltage.

That leaves devices which actually heat. Kettles simply take longer to
boil, washing machines longer to heat up (they also have inverter driven
motors, so again, essentially a switched mode PSU) so not much scope
there.

Dave
 
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 02:44:28 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain dead
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered


> Mine is zero

HIS IQ is too, troll-feeding senile asshole! <BG>
 
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 02:45:14 +0100, cretinous Carlos E.R., another brain dead
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE, blathered


> Nope.

Couldn\'t you squeeze yet more shit out of your sick head to feed the troll
with, senile shithead? <BG>
 
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 19:43:46 -0500, hubops@ccanoemail.com, another brain
dead, troll-feeding, senile CRETIN, blathered again:

> Don\'t need to stop & think

Stop and think whether you are a troll-feeding senile asshole or not! Report
back, senile shithead!
 
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 20:51:16 -0500, hubops@ccanoemail.com, another brain
dead, troll-feeding, senile CRETIN, blathered again:


Why are they still fixed tap?


Cost and reliability, I\'d guess.
The feeder voltage is well regulated.
John T.

LOL Another senile idiot who doesn\'t get what\'s happening here!
 
On 2022-11-07 10:00, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 07-Nov-22 8:47 am, David Wade wrote:
On 06/11/2022 20:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 20:23:04 -0000, Mark Lloyd
not.email@all.invalid> wrote:

On 11/6/22 09:06, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

The other answers disagree, some loads would reduce, resistive heating
for example (including washing machine heaters).

The heaters are often temperature controlled, and will run longer to
make up for the reduced power.

But the idea is to reduce peak load.  Spreading that out for longer
is exactly what they\'re after.

If the peak load reduction is needed over say an hour, then as it only
takes a few minutes to boil a kettle or heat up a washing machine it
will make no difference. You will simply have more kettles on at the
same time. In fact it could make the peak load higher.

Assuming it takes five minutes when the voltage is full, and folks put
their kettles on sequentially, you load is one kettle.

If it goes up to 6 minutes but we still want 12 kettles per hour then
you need to start the second kettle while the first is still boiling,
so the load goes up to two kettles for one minute...


It\'s worse than that. All the time that the kettle is heating, it\'s
losing heat to the environment. So reduce the voltage, and thus power,
and it takes more energy to boil a kettleful, since more is wasted in
the process.

:-D

That would have to be tested. :)

The thing is, the rate of heat loss is proportional to the temperature.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 
On 2022-11-07 02:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 01:40:12 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:55, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:40:49 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-07 00:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 23:05:13 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2022-11-06 22:02, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 20:50:10 -0000, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com
wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 18:20:18 -0000, Cursitor Doom
cd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 17:13:16 +0000, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 06/11/2022 15:10, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 09:43:37 -0000,
Wanderer@noplace.com> wrote:

Sure, but we would need to replace all electrical
devices by the their Thevenin Equivalent.

Seriously, All electrical device need to use a
certain amount of power. We often convert the mains
voltages and currents to other voltages and currents
that devices can consume. There are probably some
power supplies that could use the lower voltages and
frequencies and get the same power. Some motors and
clocks may run slower but some would not work at all.
If we still had incandescent light bulbs they would
be dimmer, the reason for the old term \'brown out\'.
Most modern devices would not work and might even be
damaged.

So No.

A device getting damaged by not enough power is
screaming of bad design.

Not necessarily. We have a \"guaranteed\" minimum and
maximum supply voltage. Why should a company spend extra
designing and installing protection against supplies (not
temporary aberrations) outside them?

Yes, all sorts of issues if a power company messes around
with the voltage and frequency. If a consumer wants to
attempt  saving money in this way then the obvious thing to
try would be a variac. It won\'t change the frequency but
does enable one to reduce the supply voltage easily to
whatever device you wish to reduce the power to.

Not the same thing at all.  If you want to reduce usage, you
turn things down or off.  If the whole country wants to do
that over a short period due to high demand, they can\'t very
well phone everyone up and tell you to delay your coffee for
half an hour, they have to lower the voltage.

As has been explained, reducing voltage is a crap idea. You can
email folk and ask them to reduce consumption at peak time
though. I got refunds last December for doing this.

Not so accurate though.  Could they get you to turn things off at
a few seconds notice?

Eventually when we’re all on smart meters, more variable
tariffs will become available that will encourage this
behaviour will become the norm.

No smart meter will ever be installed in this house.

LOL.

It was not optional here.

You could always blow it up.

Sure. And be fined. And get another smart meter, or no electricity at
all.

It\'s only illegal if you\'re caught.  You could blow up your neighbour\'s
meter.

Hardly. My meter is inside my house.

Unusual with modern housing (including my 1979 one).  It makes it harder
for them to inspect/read the meter.

It is not a modern house.
And precisely because of that, a smart meter was very welcome. I no
longer have to open them the door to read the meter.

Even if you don\'t get caught, they
would replace with another smart meter. You gain nothing.

But they would lose the cost of a meter.

And me would be without electricity for weeks.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 

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