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On 2022-11-13, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 13/11/2022 16:02, Bob F wrote:
On 11/13/2022 4:48 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?
Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Steam_Company
Sounds dangerous, especially if room heating is done directly by steam
radiators. (The ones I\'ve seen are the same size an electric storage
heaters with insulation, grills and lagged steam pipes.)
When I worked for the University of Michigan, it had a central power
plant that served steam throughout the campus. Although my duties
were mostly typing from dictation and fetching files, twice a year
I had to go to the basement of the building in which I worked and
slowly turn the big valve handle to either open or close the valve.
I received about 2 minutes of instruction from the administrative
assistant who supervised me.
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 09:20:23 -0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/11/2022 20:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-08 15:54, Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/11/2022 14:16, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:24:41 +0000, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
We absolutely *DO* need bulk storage - especially since so much of our
winter electricity is generated from burning the stuff! A majority of
UK homes are also heated by gas boilers so it is a double whammy.
The days of dirt cheap and plentiful North Sea gas are long gone.
What happened to it, is it spent already?
All the easy to get at stuff has long since been depleted. North sea is
deep and most of the remaining gas reserves are prohibitively expensive
to get at. (although recent price hikes may have changed that)
Output has been declining since the peak in 2000. eg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10F88/production/_124721596_nsta-oil-production-nc.jpg.webp
UK North Sea oil output peaked slightly earlier.
Rough gas storage facility uses some of the empty salt domes.
Good while it lasted but UK gas production and consumption crossed over
in 2004 - ever since then we have been a net importer of natural gas. It
was fine whilst there was plentiful Russian gas for the mainland but now
it is very much a sellers market with insane price spikes possible.
Not having any storage means that we will have to pay whatever it takes
to keep the lights on this winter. The campaign to save energy in the UK
remains very lacklustre when compared to the 1970\'s OPEC induced oil
crisis which had a very high profile \"Save It\" campaign slogan.
Nobody asked me if I wanted expensive power instead of cheap Russian
power. I have nothing against Putin, I want to use his cheap gas.
On 13/11/2022 16:02, Bob F wrote:
On 11/13/2022 4:48 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?
Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Steam_Company
Sounds dangerous, especially if room heating is done directly by steam
radiators. (The ones I\'ve seen are the same size an electric storage
heaters with insulation, grills and lagged steam pipes.)
In this country for domestic installations they use water at a lot
higher temperature than normal central heating I think. Still could be
dangerous if a pipe bursts.
On 09/11/2022 21:52, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 09.11.22 21:13, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 07:07:54 -0000, <upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 15:03:08 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Depends. Do you have 3 phase motors?
In my country house I currently have only one pump, which require
three phases.
That can be done with single phase power and a three phase inverter
(single phase input, three phase output). I don\'t know the current
price
of that, though.
Typically the single phase 230 V input inverter has 127/220 V three
phase output. The 230/400 V motors are much more common.
The other alterative is to use 3 capacitors to generate the phases
from single phase,, but the output power is severely reduced.
Is it possible to use a special transformer to shift the phase? So
you take a single phase and lag it a bit? Do that twice over, then
you have three phases cheaply.
120 degrees phase difference between the the phases.
quite a bit more than a \"bit\".
It cannot be done more easily than rectifying to DC and constructing a 3
phase *inverter*.
Why don\'t you try it then? I can assure that they will as a last resort
cut you off supply if your account is in serious arrears.
They work really well here too. People are finding their smart metersOn 2022-11-10 02:39, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:01:19 -0000, Carlos E.R.
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
As I said, this is a modern country. Basically the whole of Spain is
using smart meters, changed maybe ten years ago. And I saw nothing in
media about them being faulty.
They\'re (form your point of view) pointless, and a possible source of
spying and control. Why would you be happy with this? They can turn
off your power at will!
Well, as I said, I no longer have to bother to open the door for the
meter man.
They really work well, no problems detected, AFAIK.
There was no alternative. It was smart meter, or mandatory cut off.
On 2022-11-13, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 13/11/2022 16:02, Bob F wrote:
On 11/13/2022 4:48 AM, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/11/2022 16:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
They provide anything you can run off electricity. WTF is \"district
heating\"?
Heating a lot of houses from one heat source. Could be a furnace or
stray heat from a power station.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Steam_Company
Sounds dangerous, especially if room heating is done directly by steam
radiators. (The ones I\'ve seen are the same size an electric storage
heaters with insulation, grills and lagged steam pipes.)
When I worked for the University of Michigan, it had a central power
plant that served steam throughout the campus. Although my duties
were mostly typing from dictation and fetching files, twice a year
I had to go to the basement of the building in which I worked and
slowly turn the big valve handle to either open or close the valve.
I received about 2 minutes of instruction from the administrative
assistant who supervised me.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 15/11/2022 18:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-15 18:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 15:41, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:25:22 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2022-11-15 12:42, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:21:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/11/2022 22:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW
steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian
max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in
the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more
efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except
for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this
is due to
the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace
with gas. It\'s
a waste.
The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62%
efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.
A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.
Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?
Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot
water output.
With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.
Oh dear.
I think John is mentally ill.
I think you are an amateur flamer who doesn\'t want to, probably
can\'t,
intelligently discuss electronics or thermals. Your prime motivation
is to be nasty.
Imagine a boost converter.
Imagine a water heater that has exhaust flue gas temp of 100c and
heats water to 200c. Try.
Actually, it doesn\'t even need a heat pump.
With a counter-flow heat exchanger, flue gasses could easily be
colder
than the hot water output.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, that\'s one obvious way.
So obvious that in 200 years of steam engines no one has thought of it
I used to design control systems for steamships. Water temp was maybe
1000F above stack temp.
Wow! Fucking Genius!
So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.
There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.
What are you dribbling on about?
This is obvious:
Start status:
 Hot gasses flow: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--
                        <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water flow 15°C
Stable status:
 Hot gasses: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--> cold gases at almost 15°C
 Hot water at     <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water 15°C
 nearly 200°C
But the output gases can not get colder than 15°C in that example,
without a heat pump.
And curiously, if you put in a heat pump, the heat pump will use more
energy than the extra energy you will get out of your steam engine.
Which is why not one persons in over 200 years of steam engine design,
has ever bothered to do it.
They didn\'t need a heat pump, as the superheaters (driven by flue gasses) were
sufficient for their purposes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheater
Nobody asked me if I wanted expensive power instead of cheap Russian
power. I have nothing against Putin, I want to use his cheap gas.
Then emigrate.
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 8:26:12 PM UTC-8, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
... why didn\'t everyone die with coal gas? That\'s CO before you even
burn it.
CO is lighter than air, doesn\'t \'pool\' in low places. The low land
surrounding a lake with a volcanic-source CO2 accumulation can
suddenly boil and burp up a cloud that covers the neighborhood.
CO, of course, WAS toxic, and \'head in the oven\' suicides were known.
That gas hasn\'t been considered safe for years; electric lights and
electrical distribution systems came about a century ago: we still get
\'natural gas\' designating that the municipal gas supplies of today are
NOT the old toxic mix. Coal gasification was abolished here in the
1930s.
No one asked me if I wanted to be born, but here I am.On 2022-11-10 02:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Nobody asked me if I wanted expensive power instead of cheap Russian
power. I have nothing against Putin, I want to use his cheap gas.
Then emigrate.
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 19:24:57 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 15/11/2022 18:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-15 18:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 15:41, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:25:22 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2022-11-15 12:42, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:21:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/11/2022 22:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW
st...@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian
max_d...@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in
the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more
efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except
for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this
is due to
the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace
with gas. It\'s
a waste.
The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62%
efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.
A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.
Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?
Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot
water output.
With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.
Oh dear.
I think John is mentally ill.
I think you are an amateur flamer who doesn\'t want to, probably
can\'t,
intelligently discuss electronics or thermals. Your prime motivation
is to be nasty.
Imagine a boost converter.
Imagine a water heater that has exhaust flue gas temp of 100c and
heats water to 200c. Try.
Actually, it doesn\'t even need a heat pump.
With a counter-flow heat exchanger, flue gasses could easily be
colder
than the hot water output.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, that\'s one obvious way.
So obvious that in 200 years of steam engines no one has thought of it
I used to design control systems for steamships. Water temp was maybe
1000F above stack temp.
Wow! Fucking Genius!
So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.
There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.
What are you dribbling on about?
This is obvious:
Start status:
Hot gasses flow: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--
--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water flow 15°C
Stable status:
Hot gasses: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--> cold gases at almost 15°C
Hot water at <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water 15°C
nearly 200°C
But the output gases can not get colder than 15°C in that example,
without a heat pump.
And curiously, if you put in a heat pump, the heat pump will use more
energy than the extra energy you will get out of your steam engine.
Which is why not one persons in over 200 years of steam engine design,
has ever bothered to do it.
They didn\'t need a heat pump, as the superheaters (driven by flue gasses) were
sufficient for their purposes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheater
The steam turbines on big ships had superheaters, preheaters,
economizers, geared HP and LP turbines, steam powered electric
generators, steam powered feedwater pumps, distillers, and domestic
water heaters. And enormous sea-water condensers. They didn\'t waste
any heat.
But the plants were so complex that owners couldn\'t find the crews to
keep them running. They had a chemical lab for the feedwater.
Direct-drive reversing diesels are so much simpler.
onsdag den 16. november 2022 kl. 01.16.01 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 19:24:57 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 15/11/2022 18:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2022-11-15 18:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/11/2022 16:17, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:04:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 15/11/2022 15:41, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 16:25:22 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2022-11-15 12:42, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:21:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/11/2022 22:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:38:59 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-14 01:27, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:07:43 -0000, SteveW
st...@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
On 09/11/2022 00:14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian
max_d...@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jla...@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in
the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more
efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except
for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this
is due to
the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace
with gas. It\'s
a waste.
The highest efficiency gas fired power station is aroung 62%
efficient.
Then there are 5% transmission losses.
A condensing gas boiler is over 90% efficient.
Then why don\'t they make the power station like the boiler?
Because the exhaust gasses can not be colder than the hot
water output.
With a heat pump, they can. Imagine a boost converter.
Oh dear.
I think John is mentally ill.
I think you are an amateur flamer who doesn\'t want to, probably
can\'t,
intelligently discuss electronics or thermals. Your prime motivation
is to be nasty.
Imagine a boost converter.
Imagine a water heater that has exhaust flue gas temp of 100c and
heats water to 200c. Try.
Actually, it doesn\'t even need a heat pump.
With a counter-flow heat exchanger, flue gasses could easily be
colder
than the hot water output.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, that\'s one obvious way.
So obvious that in 200 years of steam engines no one has thought of it
I used to design control systems for steamships. Water temp was maybe
1000F above stack temp.
Wow! Fucking Genius!
So I\'m not mentally ill after all. What a relief.
There are lots of other examples of water hotter than flue gas. Your
turn.
What are you dribbling on about?
This is obvious:
Start status:
Hot gasses flow: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--
--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water flow 15°C
Stable status:
Hot gasses: 200°C -->-->-->-->-->-->-->--> cold gases at almost 15°C
Hot water at <--<--<--<--<--<--<--<-- cold water 15°C
nearly 200°C
But the output gases can not get colder than 15°C in that example,
without a heat pump.
And curiously, if you put in a heat pump, the heat pump will use more
energy than the extra energy you will get out of your steam engine.
Which is why not one persons in over 200 years of steam engine design,
has ever bothered to do it.
They didn\'t need a heat pump, as the superheaters (driven by flue gasses) were
sufficient for their purposes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheater
The steam turbines on big ships had superheaters, preheaters,
economizers, geared HP and LP turbines, steam powered electric
generators, steam powered feedwater pumps, distillers, and domestic
water heaters. And enormous sea-water condensers. They didn\'t waste
any heat.
But the plants were so complex that owners couldn\'t find the crews to
keep them running. They had a chemical lab for the feedwater.
Direct-drive reversing diesels are so much simpler.
and probably more efficient but requiring a bit more maintance
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.
On 2022-11-11 14:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 13:43:53 -0000, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
\"Carlos E.R.\" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message
news:22p14j-2u9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor...
On 2022-11-11 12:12, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:58:57 -0000, Vir Campestris
vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
To much CO2 will lead to
unconsciousness but as I understand it, it is not poisonous as such, so a
few breaths of normal air is enough to revive a person.
Apparently people have died in their sleep from CO2 suddenly coming from
a nearby lake. I call bullshit.
Well, it is true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limnic_eruption
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:50:43 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 07/11/2022 23:56, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:46:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 06/11/2022 19:49, Bob F wrote:
On 11/6/2022 9:53 AM, Max Demian wrote:
Actually my fridge freezer might as well not have one as it rarely
turns off. Ice forms inside the fridge part and you can just about
freeze vodka in an ice cube tray so it must be about -25C.
Have you considered adjusting it?
It\'s set to 1, which is next to off, so I assume that\'s the minimum
refrigeration.
Sounds like the thermostat is fucked, will your landlord replace it?
I don\'t know as it does still work as an FF. I\'m not too bothered with
it as it is.
\"Ice forms in the fridge part\". Refrigerated food is damaged when
frozen. It\'s not fit for purpose.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 21:23:30 +0100, \"Carlos E.R.\"
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2022-11-11 16:01, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 11:10:40 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2022 21:58, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/11/2022 12:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don\'t have house heating. I heat a room at a time using a butane stove.
Carlos, I hope you have a CO detector? It doesn\'t take a lot to go wrong
with a portable stove to produce poison gas.
Andy
My late mother relates a story from presumably the 1920s, in which she
and her sister and young brother were playing in a room with a paraffin
heater.
In the sort of trust in adults displayed by BBC audiences,, the ideas
that she couldn\'t see in front of her for black smoke, and was coughing,
didn\'t seem to create any alarm whatsoever until her father rushed in
and opened all the windows and dragged the children out.
When I was a kid most everyone had unvented gas heaters in our houses,
which burned clean. Fortunately, the houses were usually very leaky.
If the CO2 level got high, it would feel stuffy and we\'d turn down the
heat or lift a window for fresh air.
The hazard would be for the CO2 level to get so high that the gas
flames starved and started making CO. That was rare.
Current burners switch off automatically way before that.
Well, we didn\'t have much automatically when I was a kid.
On Tue, 08 Nov 2022 12:35:03 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:
On 08/11/2022 01:22, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 11:27:33 -0000, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandsnipmetechnology.com> wrote:
We heat our kettle with gas. All that heat winds up in the house,
which usually needs it. An open flame is a more efficient heater than
a gas furnace; no heat is vented.
Even resistive heating is better than a furnace. Except for gas being
cheaper for some reason.
I find it hard to believe that you don\'t realise that this is due to the
Second Law of Thermodynamics.
I know why it happens, just not why people use a furnace with gas. It\'s
a waste.
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 11:10:40 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 10/11/2022 21:58, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/11/2022 12:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don\'t have house heating. I heat a room at a time using a butane stove.
Carlos, I hope you have a CO detector? It doesn\'t take a lot to go wrong
with a portable stove to produce poison gas.
Andy
My late mother relates a story from presumably the 1920s, in which she
and her sister and young brother were playing in a room with a paraffin
heater.
In the sort of trust in adults displayed by BBC audiences,, the ideas
that she couldn\'t see in front of her for black smoke, and was coughing,
didn\'t seem to create any alarm whatsoever until her father rushed in
and opened all the windows and dragged the children out.
When I was a kid most everyone had unvented gas heaters in our houses,
which burned clean. Fortunately, the houses were usually very leaky.
If the CO2 level got high, it would feel stuffy and we\'d turn down the
heat or lift a window for fresh air.
The hazard would be for the CO2 level to get so high that the gas
flames starved and started making CO. That was rare.