FUD...

[rbowman]

On 09/12/2022 10:59 AM, Don Y wrote:

I.e., you have different criteria as to what you are producing
which can lead to different solutions for harvest. Is corn for
popping grown the same way as sweet corn? Corn consumed by
livestock? etc.

Popcorn is Zea mays everta. Dent corn, which is the vast majority of
the corn grown in the US is Z. mays indentata. Sweet corn is Z. mays
saccharata. Z. mays indurata is flint corn (Indian corn) and everta is a
variant. You can pop Indian corn if you want variety.

Dent corn is starchy. Even if you pick the ears early like sweet corn
it\'s not tasty. We used to call sweet corn that was tough and not very
sweet \'cow corn\'. I grew up in dairy country and the dent corn was
harvested green for silage rather than the much more complex system than
came abut with industrial farming. Of course the cow manure was spread
on the fields in the springtime, completing the cycle.

If you have a mill as an experiment dry some sweet corn, shell it, and
grind it into meal. Even though a lot of the sugar becomes starch as it
dries it\'s going to be a taste treat compared to commercial cornmeal
from dent corn.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/12/2022 02:41 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> The corn plants weaken considerably once they do their job producing an ear of corn. A snow makes a real mess since it comes with a strong wind many times.

Yet another meaning of lodging...

When Borlaug was working with wheat he introduced Japanese dwarf wheat
into the mix to get short, fat stem not as susceptible to lodging. Big,
full heads that fell over in a light breeze didn\'t cut it.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/12/2022 02:54 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The link I used to describe types of corn didn\'t work when I tried it. Maybe this will.
https://kansasfarmfoodconnection.org/spotlights/what-are-the-different-types-of-corn

That works without going into all the Z. mays designations. Horses for
courses.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-09-13, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 9/12/2022 1:41 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 11:59:45 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Yes, but I suspect \"other uses\" don\'t have the same \"edibility\" criteria
that goes with corn grown as a foodstuff.

Is time of harvest as critical (\"running 24 hours a day for 10-12 days)?
Moisture content? Cosmetics? Pest infestation? etc.

I.e., you have different criteria as to what you are producing which can
lead to different solutions for harvest. Is corn for popping grown the
same way as sweet corn? Corn consumed by livestock? etc.

Harvesting 24/7 isn\'t going to happen at least around here. Guys need to
sleep . Some like to let the dew dry off in the morning also. They can
find other things to do in the meantime.

My high school was surrounded by corn -- a great way to ditch class and
NEVER be found! But, the farms were considerably smaller -- more like
subsistence farms (acres not thousands of acres). \"Big\" farms harvested
tree fruit.

There\'s a pretty good explanation here:
https://kansasfarmfoodconnection.org/spotlights/what-arey
-the-different-types-of-corn

They left out seed corn. That\'s different also. The seed corn plant behind
my house started their drying fans ten days ago or so. Seed corn is just
air dried with no heat as far as I know. It\'s harvested with corn pickers.
The whole ear, cob and all is trucked to the seed processing plant.

The farmers in my area raise mainly soybeans and corn. The beans ripen
first so farmers get the beans out then worry about the corn.

Don\'t they rotate what/where each crop is grown? Or, do they
rely on chemical enrichment to keep \"restoring\" the soil nutrients?

Timing of harvest is a balance between letting the corn dry in the field for
free vs. the worry of a wet fall or early snowstorm. Shelled corn needs to
be stored at around 14% moisture. The corn plants weaken considerably once
they do their job producing an ear of corn. A snow makes a real mess since
it comes with a strong wind many times. Guys usually don\'t wait. It\'s nice
if they can get the crop out, then disc and apply NH3 for the next year.

They can\'t apply it before November 1st. That lets the soil cool so the
NH3 doesn\'t activate for lack of a better word.

I don\'t know many that apply nitrogen through their irrigation systems.
That was a hot thing for awhile but didn\'t seem to be adopted widely. It
rains enough some summers here in central Nebraska that the corn could need
fertilizer but not water.

We worked on a process to *coat* seeds (herbicide? fertilizer?) but
I can\'t see how that could be economical -- except for special crops
or special conditions (it takes hours to coat a few hundred pounds).

Or, it could have just been a proof of principle (or even patent proof)
exercise waiting for a more practical means of deployment.

Build a machine 20 times bigger and it will still take hours to coat
a few tons.




--
Jasen.

 

[Bob Engelhardt]

It\'s totally made up & passed along (including by you) until it\'s viral.
See: https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/08/16/john-deere-electric-tractors/

 

[rbowman]

On 09/04/2022 01:39 AM, Don Y wrote:

sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn
plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/traditional-gators/te-4x2-electric-utility-vehicle/

Other than a couple of prototypes Deere is working in case Germany goes
completely insane in phasing out IC engines, I think that\'s the biggest
John Deere electric.

The article is a complete fabrication on many counts but there is one
valid point. Road construction, large scale farming operations,
lumbering and so forth have fuel/lube trucks that refuel the equipment
on site. You don\'t drive a skidder down to the Exxon station to fuel it.

Apropos. I went down to the fair the adjacent county and watched the
tractor pulls for a while. A \'54 John Deere 60 didn\'t do too bad
considering. When I lived in New Hampshire horse and ox pulling was
popular at the fairs and a lot more interesting. They aren\'t just for
show either.

https://www.horsejournals.com/life-horses/horses-jobs-logging-horses

Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one of
dem dare com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from
China?\")

https://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/new-senate-bill-farm-equipment-right-to-repair-rcna13961

After the com-pewter chip arrives on the slow boat from China you wait a
few more weeks for the gen-you-whine certified John Deere tech to show
up and install it.


Jon Tester is a bit of an oddity in DC as he knows what a tractor looks
like. He\'s an old school Democrat and not too bad. He\'s up in 2024 so
we\'ll see how that goes. Distancing himself from Biden would be good.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-09-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/12/2022 10:18 AM, Don Y wrote:
A second device could follow the harvester in much the same way that
a grain car does for some crops.

Or a fleet... I posted a couple of videos. A 12 row combine keeps the
\'second device\' damn busy transferring just the corn.

Or, someone will figure out a use for the \"refuse\".

https://necornstalk.com/why-most-farmers-dont-plow-their-fields/
https://sustainable-secure-food-blog.com/2019/01/22/why-do-some-farm-fields-after-harvest/

There is a use. Till or no-till the residue enriches the soil. A
cornstalk doesn\'t magically construct itself from thin air. Sure you can
use it for biomass but TANSTAAFL.

Or, someone will decide that corn isn\'t an efficient crop to grow/harvest.

What would the world do without high fructose corn syrup?

Lose weight, probably.

--
Jasen.

 

[server]

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 00:39:02 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
wrote:

A right-wing friend sent this to me -- in alarm! (and yeah, I\'m
*SURE* it\'s \"true\"; what value to MAKING UP such a load of horseshit?)

----8<----8<----8<----8<----
For those of you that think electric vehicles are the answer -- this
is a true story from a farmer in the Midwest- and I’m reposting it-

A midwest farmer with over 10,000 acres of corn and is spread out over
3 counties. His operation is a “partnership farm” with John Deere. They
use the larger farm operations as demonstration projects for the promotion
and development of new equipment. He recently received a phone call
from his John Deere representative, and they want the farm to go to
electric tractors and combines in 2023. He currently has 5 diesel combines
that cost $900,000 each that are traded in every 3 years. Also, over 10
really BIG tractors.

JD wants him to go all-electric soon.

He said: “Ok, I have some questions. How do I charge these combines when
they are 3 counties away from the shop in the middle of a cornfield, in
the middle of nowhere?”

“How do I run them 24 hours a day for 10 or 12 days straight when the
harvest is ready, and the weather is coming in?”

“How do I get a 50,000+ lb. combine that takes up the width of an entire
road back to the shop 20 miles away when the battery goes dead?”

There was dead silence on the other end of the phone.

When the corn is ready to harvest, it has to have the proper sugar and
moisture content. If it is too wet, it has to be put in giant dryers that
burn natural or propane gas, and lots of it. Harvest time is critical
because if it degrades in sugar content or quality, it can drop the value
of his crop by half a million dollars or more.

It is analyzed at the time of sale.

It is standard procedure to run these machines 10 to 12 days straight,
24 hours a day at peak harvest time.

When they need fuel, a tanker truck delivers it, and the machines keep
going. John Deere’s only answer is “we’re working on it.”

They are being pushed by the lefty Dems in the government to force
these electric machines on the farmer.

These people are out of control.

They are messing with the production of food crops that feed people
and livestock… all in the name of their “green dream.”

Look for the cost of your box of cornflakes to triple in the next 24 months…”

Everything we do has consequences. A trade-off with every action is a
reaction. Oil to gas, roads, plastics to exhaust. We live in an oil-based
economy, there’s no getting around it. Charging batteries requires a source
of energy. Most of that energy comes from fossil fuels.

Conservation is our best resource. Use & recycle and recycle it again. Make
the most of our resources, we have a lot to go around. STOP THE TAXING!
----8<----8<----8<----8<----

(sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one of dem dare
com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from China?\")

It\'s amazing how little folks originating such content think of the
mental/reasoning capacity of their readers! (or, maybe they\'ve got
them pegged! :> )

This is a cool book.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0593297067/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

full of facts and numbers about, well, what it says. An early chapter
compares human and horse-powered agriculture to what we do now.

It shows me how amazingly complex and productive civilization is now,
and how easy it is for morons to break it and kill maybe billions of
people.

A bunch of the world runs on diesel oil and ammonia.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/4/2022 10:13 AM, rbowman wrote:

On 09/04/2022 01:39 AM, Don Y wrote:
sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn
plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

Other than a couple of prototypes Deere is working in case Germany goes
completely insane in phasing out IC engines, I think that\'s the biggest John
Deere electric.

*If* you accept the premise that ICEs will be \"banned\", I would think the
industry (suppliers, consumers and The Public alike) would rethink how we
grow foodstuffs.

There\'s nothing that says a combine needs to cut a 40 ft swath -- except that
a SINGLE DRIVER can get more done, that way (but, if machines were driving,
the number of such drivers wouldn\'t be limited!).

Or, that all of the processing done in the combine needs to happen in a
single vehicle.

Or, that the energy source needs to be *in* the combine.

Or, that we should be growing that much *corn* (if ICE goes away, 25% of
corn crops do as well); after all, the goal is to grow calories!

When petroleum products were introduced to the farm, you didn\'t see farmers
setting up oil wells and refineries on their property (though it was common
on farms, back home, to have many thousand gallon fuel tanks on hand). Yet,
somehow, fuel availability wasn\'t a problem (so why would you think electric
*charge* would be? and, who said the charge had to come from \"batteries\"?)

They didn\'t drive their tractors all the way \"into town\" to purchase more fuel
(you can move energy without having to move the device that consumes it) so
why do you think they\'d have to drive an EV \"back to the shop\" to charge?

Gee, a guy can afford several million dollar combines -- that he \"trades in\"
every three years -- yet he can\'t come up with a better way of keeping them
in service? It must be tough to be poor!

The article is a complete fabrication on many counts but there is one valid
point. Road construction, large scale farming operations, lumbering and so
forth have fuel/lube trucks that refuel the equipment on site. You don\'t drive
a skidder down to the Exxon station to fuel it.

That just means an ENERGY source has to be present proximate to its use.

Apropos. I went down to the fair the adjacent county and watched the tractor
pulls for a while. A \'54 John Deere 60 didn\'t do too bad considering. When I
lived in New Hampshire horse and ox pulling was popular at the fairs and a lot
more interesting. They aren\'t just for show either.

Yeah, we used to have them at the local \"town fair\" -- the \"loads\" were skids
with various amounts of concrete blocks onboard. It looked kind of cruel as
there was no *purpose* being served by the efforts.

Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one of >> dem
dare com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from
China?\")

https://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/new-senate-bill-farm-equipment-right-to-repair-rcna13961

After the com-pewter chip arrives on the slow boat from China you wait a few
more weeks for the gen-you-whine certified John Deere tech to show up and
install it.

Yet, they still manage to use this sort of equipment! Imagine that! :>

There are always bumps in new technologies/business practices. Especially
when a radical paradigm shift comes into play.

But, if the idea makes sense (or, has enough \"backing\") the market adapts.
Just as horse-drawn plows gave way to diesel tractors!

It used to be costly to put an NIC in a device -- hence the reason you
saw so many serial port protocols and contorted ways of exchanging data
between devices. Now, the cost of the NIC is down in the noise and the
associated stack costs along with it.

Computers *in* cars? Software updates *for* cars? <shudder>

Jon Tester is a bit of an oddity in DC as he knows what a tractor looks like.
He\'s an old school Democrat and not too bad. He\'s up in 2024 so we\'ll see how
that goes. Distancing himself from Biden would be good.

 

[server]

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 11:13:29 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/04/2022 01:39 AM, Don Y wrote:
sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn
plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/traditional-gators/te-4x2-electric-utility-vehicle/

It uses eight big lead-acid batteries that cost around $400 each.

 

[server]

On Tue, 6 Sep 2022 20:57:24 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
wrote:

On 9/6/2022 7:32 PM, rbowman wrote:

Try, try again. Castaic Dam is about 5 miles west of the St. Francis Dam, near
the San Andreas fault line.

And the Japanese are thinking about revisiting nuclear...

I\'m sure there\'s some science that allows folks to assess the risk of
placing a structure of type X at a distance of Y from a hazzard Z
in soil of characteristics S. But, I\'m equally sure they can\'t
know, with certainty, that S is a constant or behaves in a certain
manner under all conditions.

[How do you model 1,000 year events? 10,000 year events?]

Who in their right mind would build New Orleans where it is? What were
the mathematical chances of Katrina and the damage inflicted?

ooops!

The Katrina flooding was a man-made event. The 17th St Canal and the
Industrial Canal were the paths for the flooding. Both had stupid,
poorly designed and maintained levees. The big old river and lake
levees held.

For some interesting background, read Rising Tide by John Barry.

When I lived in NOLA, everybody knew that \"the big one\" would someday
flood the city, so eat and drink and be merry. Katrina wasn\'t even the
big one.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/07/2022 12:10 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 9/6/2022 10:52 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/06/2022 09:57 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/6/2022 7:32 PM, rbowman wrote:

Try, try again. Castaic Dam is about 5 miles west of the St. Francis
Dam, near the San Andreas fault line.

And the Japanese are thinking about revisiting nuclear...

I\'m sure there\'s some science that allows folks to assess the risk of
placing a structure of type X at a distance of Y from a hazzard Z
in soil of characteristics S. But, I\'m equally sure they can\'t
know, with certainty, that S is a constant or behaves in a certain
manner under all conditions.

[How do you model 1,000 year events? 10,000 year events?]

Who in their right mind would build New Orleans where it is? What were
the mathematical chances of Katrina and the damage inflicted?

ooops!

https://www.conservation.ca.gov/cgs/earthquakes/northridge

Scroll down to the map Castaic is where the severity starts fading
from extreme to merely very strong. The I5/14 interchange fell down
and went boom -- again. It was destroyed in the \'71 Sylmar quake and a
new, improved version constructed. I missed the \'71 but I was a
frequent flyer between LA and Seattle in \'94 and it was a real mess.

Yeah, but how do you, realistically, make those risk assessments?

It\'s one thing to look at a wager and the *mathematical* odds of
winning and evaluate your risk/exposure. You KNOW that there is
a 1:52 chance of drawing the ace of spades from a full, shuffled
deck. Not 1:53 or 1:4.

But, all of this geological/natural stuff is \"hopeful\" analysis
of odds. There\'s no real science that PROVES their numbers are
correct.

No, but you can make some decisions. The 5-14 interchange is an
engineering marvel that rivals the cloverleafs that were featured in
\'50s LoonyTunes. Yes, the topography imposes limits but apparently
adding a little more rebar and concrete wasn\'t good enough.

What are the odds of a 100 year floodplain seeing water? A lot of people
in Tucson found out in \'94 or \'95 iirc.

http://www.theegg.org/about/historyarchitecture

My nephew of sorts is an architect in SF. When we met back east fora
funeral and were doing so sightseeing he took a look at that and said
\'Are you frigging kidding me?\' although he phrased it more politely.
Statistically a quake greater than 6.0 is a 670 year frequency so they
rolled the dice. Still standing...

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <qjbhhhhchr0hpil3sbkoeo2a3npu9dvkup@4ax.com>,
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

The Katrina flooding was a man-made event. The 17th St Canal and the
Industrial Canal were the paths for the flooding. Both had stupid,
poorly designed and maintained levees. The big old river and lake
levees held.

For some interesting background, read Rising Tide by John Barry.

When I lived in NOLA, everybody knew that \"the big one\" would someday
flood the city, so eat and drink and be merry. Katrina wasn\'t even the
big one.

People are stupid . They build in flood zones and then cry about it
when they get floded out. Same as those that build too close to the
oceans.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/04/2022 12:03 PM, Don Y wrote:

They didn\'t drive their tractors all the way \"into town\" to purchase
more fuel
(you can move energy without having to move the device that consumes it) so
why do you think they\'d have to drive an EV \"back to the shop\" to charge?

So there will be charging stations in the middle of the field? Unless
Tesla\'s pipe dreams become a reality moving electrical energy around
requires physical infrastructure.


> That just means an ENERGY source has to be present proximate to its use.

And how will that come to pass?

Yeah, we used to have them at the local \"town fair\" -- the \"loads\" were
skids
with various amounts of concrete blocks onboard. It looked kind of
cruel as
there was no *purpose* being served by the efforts.

That\'s what horses do. I found the difference between horses and oxen
interesting. The horse teams come out with their fancy harnesses and
prance around. The hard part is getting them hitched to the stone boat.
Once hitched they pull for a distance and stall out. After collecting
themselves, they make it a little further before giving it up.

The ox teams come out in their utilitarian yokes, and calmly back up to
be hitched. Then they drag the boat as far as they can and they\'re
finished. There\'s no short spurts, when they\'re done they\'re done.

The pulling at the New Hampshire state fair ran long enough one evening
that the fireworks show started. That really got the horses ramped up
while the oxen stood around waiting to go to work.

Think of it like going to the gym. Deadlifts never accomplished anything
useful.

Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one
of >> dem dare com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from
China?\")

https://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/new-senate-bill-farm-equipment-right-to-repair-rcna13961

After the com-pewter chip arrives on the slow boat from China you wait
a few more weeks for the gen-you-whine certified John Deere tech to
show up and install it.

Yet, they still manage to use this sort of equipment! Imagine that! :

Until it breaks down... I went out one morning and the DR650 wouldn\'t
start. Some diagnostics showed the ECU died. There is no work around;
find one on eBay, wait for it to be delivered, and replace the unit.
That\'s for a bike that still has a relatively primitive carbureted engine.

The real problem in this case is not the technology as much as John
Deere\'s stand that you never own the technology, you\'re just using it.
They took a page out of Apple\'s book.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/07/2022 12:03 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 9/6/2022 10:35 PM, rbowman wrote:

Most of the old mines are still visible at Cripple Creek. And, the
tailings
just strewn around the entrances (\"just leave that; it\'s not OUR
problem!\").
IIRC, they\'ve started mining the tailings to see if they can eek out a bit
more gold without all the effort of *digging*.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2018-02/documents/anacondasmeltercasestudy-2016.pdf

It\'s never \'their\' problem. ARCO bought the assets, not the liabilities.
Anaconda built a golf course on part of the tailings but some are
exposed. They were reworked at one point, not for gold but some other
mineral. Gold and silver were a minor byproduct of the Butte mines; they
were mostly copper.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kenlund/4410280280/

The photo doesn\'t convey the scope of the tailings. Some are coarse
rock, others are the fines from the floatation refining process and you
can see the plume on windy days. P-D is long gone, of course.

Water was a problem there too. Obviously it\'s all fossil water from
better days.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/04/2022 12:23 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 11:13:29 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/04/2022 01:39 AM, Don Y wrote:
sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn
plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/traditional-gators/te-4x2-electric-utility-vehicle/

It uses eight big lead-acid batteries that cost around $400 each.

https://myvehicletalk.com/chevy-volt-battery-replacement-cost/
https://www.slashgear.com/984329/this-chevy-volt-battery-replacement-shows-an-outrageous-repair-cost-after-only-70k-miles/

The $30,000 Volt replacement may or may not be accurate but there is
enough data to suggest EV\'s are a lot like cellphones without user
serviceable batteries. Yes, you CAN have the battery replaced but it is
more than the car is worth so it goes into the scrap pile when the
battery dies.

Hopefully the Gator uses more or less standard golf cart / fork lift
batteries but it\'s still a chunk of change.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/7/2022 8:00 AM, rbowman wrote:

But, all of this geological/natural stuff is \"hopeful\" analysis
of odds. There\'s no real science that PROVES their numbers are
correct.

No, but you can make some decisions. The 5-14 interchange is an engineering
marvel that rivals the cloverleafs that were featured in \'50s LoonyTunes. Yes,
the topography imposes limits but apparently adding a little more rebar and
concrete wasn\'t good enough.

But you never really know *when* it\'s enough. You can say \"it will survive
these conditions\"... but, can\'t really indicate the likelihood of those
conditions occurring -- or worse!

What are the odds of a 100 year floodplain seeing water? A lot of people in
Tucson found out in \'94 or \'95 iirc.

Actually, we\'re at the fringe of the 100yr floodplain and didn\'t see any water.
Hydrology can be very \"local\" in its effects.

My nephew of sorts is an architect in SF. When we met back east fora funeral
and were doing so sightseeing he took a look at that and said \'Are you frigging
kidding me?\' although he phrased it more politely. Statistically a quake
greater than 6.0 is a 670 year frequency so they rolled the dice. Still
standing...

Again, how do you KNOW it\'s an average 670 yr interval? Are you sure it\'s
not 680? 510?

Like I said in my example, you *know* the ace of spades has a 1:52 chance of
being the first card dealt from a deck. Not 1:51. Or, 1:73. And, you know
*why* that is the case.

You know that 0-0-0 is just as good a lottery pick as 4-1-9 (actually, probably
*better* if payout is related to number of winners as folks might shy away from
0-0-0 thinking it\'s a bad \"number\").

With all these natural events, there\'s a lot of assumption baked into
the figures -- and that assumption is thereafter treated as fact (hidden
behind phrases like \"1 in a 100 year\").

Likewise for natural \"conditions\": under what circumstances will THIS
soil, right under my feet, liquify? What about THAT soil in my neighbor\'s
yard (it\'s not identical to THIS but how different does it have to be to
significantly affect that criteria)?

Is *this* lot a better choice (for some sort of minimized risk) than
this OTHER lot? (why?)

[Off to figure out how to make granola as TJ keeps f*cking with their
product offerings. Sears, Penneys, Monkey Wards, etc. All thought
\"house brands\" were the solution. Look where it left them! Are
you listening, Kirkland?]

 

[rbowman]

On 09/04/2022 11:43 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 00:39:02 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
wrote:

A right-wing friend sent this to me -- in alarm! (and yeah, I\'m
*SURE* it\'s \"true\"; what value to MAKING UP such a load of horseshit?)

----8<----8<----8<----8<----
For those of you that think electric vehicles are the answer -- this
is a true story from a farmer in the Midwest- and I’m reposting it-

A midwest farmer with over 10,000 acres of corn and is spread out over
3 counties. His operation is a “partnership farm” with John Deere. They
use the larger farm operations as demonstration projects for the promotion
and development of new equipment. He recently received a phone call
from his John Deere representative, and they want the farm to go to
electric tractors and combines in 2023. He currently has 5 diesel combines
that cost $900,000 each that are traded in every 3 years. Also, over 10
really BIG tractors.

JD wants him to go all-electric soon.

He said: “Ok, I have some questions. How do I charge these combines when
they are 3 counties away from the shop in the middle of a cornfield, in
the middle of nowhere?”

“How do I run them 24 hours a day for 10 or 12 days straight when the
harvest is ready, and the weather is coming in?”

“How do I get a 50,000+ lb. combine that takes up the width of an entire
road back to the shop 20 miles away when the battery goes dead?”

There was dead silence on the other end of the phone.

When the corn is ready to harvest, it has to have the proper sugar and
moisture content. If it is too wet, it has to be put in giant dryers that
burn natural or propane gas, and lots of it. Harvest time is critical
because if it degrades in sugar content or quality, it can drop the value
of his crop by half a million dollars or more.

It is analyzed at the time of sale.

It is standard procedure to run these machines 10 to 12 days straight,
24 hours a day at peak harvest time.

When they need fuel, a tanker truck delivers it, and the machines keep
going. John Deere’s only answer is “we’re working on it.”

They are being pushed by the lefty Dems in the government to force
these electric machines on the farmer.

These people are out of control.

They are messing with the production of food crops that feed people
and livestock… all in the name of their “green dream.”

Look for the cost of your box of cornflakes to triple in the next 24 months…”

Everything we do has consequences. A trade-off with every action is a
reaction. Oil to gas, roads, plastics to exhaust. We live in an oil-based
economy, there’s no getting around it. Charging batteries requires a source
of energy. Most of that energy comes from fossil fuels.

Conservation is our best resource. Use & recycle and recycle it again. Make
the most of our resources, we have a lot to go around. STOP THE TAXING!
----8<----8<----8<----8<----

(sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one of dem dare
com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from China?\")

It\'s amazing how little folks originating such content think of the
mental/reasoning capacity of their readers! (or, maybe they\'ve got
them pegged! :> )


This is a cool book.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0593297067/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

full of facts and numbers about, well, what it says. An early chapter
compares human and horse-powered agriculture to what we do now.

It shows me how amazingly complex and productive civilization is now,
and how easy it is for morons to break it and kill maybe billions of
people.

A bunch of the world runs on diesel oil and ammonia.

India and other countries faced famine in the \'60s. The \'Green
Revolution\' save the day. otoh, look at the population of India in 1970
versus 2022. Is there another rabbit in the hat that doesn\'t depend of
chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and heavy irrigation?

Norman Borlaug saved the day -- or did he just kick the can down the road?

https://www.agdaily.com/crops/borlaug-and-vogt-and-the-world-they-sought-to-build/

\'The Wizard and the Prophet\' is an even-handed treatment of the
competing visions of Borlaug and Vogt. Take your pick.

 

[server]

On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 11:12:49 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <qjbhhhhchr0hpil3sbkoeo2a3npu9dvkup@4ax.com>,
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

The Katrina flooding was a man-made event. The 17th St Canal and the
Industrial Canal were the paths for the flooding. Both had stupid,
poorly designed and maintained levees. The big old river and lake
levees held.

For some interesting background, read Rising Tide by John Barry.

When I lived in NOLA, everybody knew that \"the big one\" would someday
flood the city, so eat and drink and be merry. Katrina wasn\'t even the
big one.




People are stupid . They build in flood zones and then cry about it
when they get floded out. Same as those that build too close to the
oceans.

What\'s stupid is cheap federal flood insurance.

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:45:27 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

On 9/12/2022 1:41 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 11:59:45 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Yes, but I suspect \"other uses\" don\'t have the same \"edibility\" criteria
that goes with corn grown as a foodstuff.

Is time of harvest as critical (\"running 24 hours a day for 10-12 days)?
Moisture content? Cosmetics? Pest infestation? etc.

I.e., you have different criteria as to what you are producing which can
lead to different solutions for harvest. Is corn for popping grown the
same way as sweet corn? Corn consumed by livestock? etc.

Harvesting 24/7 isn\'t going to happen at least around here. Guys need to
sleep . Some like to let the dew dry off in the morning also. They can
find other things to do in the meantime.
My high school was surrounded by corn -- a great way to ditch class and
NEVER be found! But, the farms were considerably smaller -- more like
subsistence farms (acres not thousands of acres). \"Big\" farms harvested
tree fruit.
There\'s a pretty good explanation here:
https://kansasfarmfoodconnection.org/spotlights/what-arey
-the-different-types-of-corn

They left out seed corn. That\'s different also. The seed corn plant behind
my house started their drying fans ten days ago or so. Seed corn is just
air dried with no heat as far as I know. It\'s harvested with corn pickers.
The whole ear, cob and all is trucked to the seed processing plant.

The farmers in my area raise mainly soybeans and corn. The beans ripen
first so farmers get the beans out then worry about the corn.
Don\'t they rotate what/where each crop is grown? Or, do they
rely on chemical enrichment to keep \"restoring\" the soil nutrients?

It depends on the farmer. Soybeans loosen the soil. They\'re legumes but are pigs on nitrogen consumption. Farmers are usually going to apply some type of fertilizer. One of the modern changes is actual soil testing. I guess modern combines can monitor the yield as they go and gps can map the problem area for more investigation.
More on beans. <https://cropwatch.unl.edu/2018/soybean-yield-limited-nitrogen-supply>
The University of Nebraska is a big deal for tractor testing. <https://tractortestlab.unl.edu/>
Raising two crops lets a farmer hedge his bets on the selling end, also. There isn\'t much wheat in my immediate area. Winter wheat is raised more in the drier southwest area of Nebraska than here in the south central part.
There is an organic farm a couple miles from me. I think it was in corn the last time
I saw it. It was a mess of crop and weeds.

Timing of harvest is a balance between letting the corn dry in the field for
free vs. the worry of a wet fall or early snowstorm. Shelled corn needs to
be stored at around 14% moisture. The corn plants weaken considerably once
they do their job producing an ear of corn. A snow makes a real mess since
it comes with a strong wind many times. Guys usually don\'t wait. It\'s nice
if they can get the crop out, then disc and apply NH3 for the next year..

They can\'t apply it before November 1st. That lets the soil cool so the
NH3 doesn\'t activate for lack of a better word.

I don\'t know many that apply nitrogen through their irrigation systems.
That was a hot thing for awhile but didn\'t seem to be adopted widely. It
rains enough some summers here in central Nebraska that the corn could need
fertilizer but not water.
We worked on a process to *coat* seeds (herbicide? fertilizer?) but
I can\'t see how that could be economical -- except for special crops
or special conditions (it takes hours to coat a few hundred pounds).

Or, it could have just been a proof of principle (or even patent proof)
exercise waiting for a more practical means of deployment.

Seed corn has been coated with some sort of disease/bug killer since I was
a kid. Call it 1960. It was usually pink. Here\'s a link to Corteva Seed.
<https://www.corteva.us/products-and-solutions/seed-treatments.html>
Corn, wheat, soybean, and other seeds get treated. Seed corn has always been
expensive stuff. Field corn farmers sold might\'ve been $2 or $3/ bushel (56 lbs.)
Seed corn might\'ve been around $70 per 50 lb. bag if my memory is anywhere close.
Today\'s farmers don\'t generally handle bags. They use things like this.
<https://christianson.com/brands/seedvac/>.
It used to be a waste of effort to wave at a farmer planting corn or beans. He was staring
at the mark laid down on the previous pass to keep the row spacing consistent. It\'s a waste of
time now because they\'re playing with their smart phones. Tractors are GPS guided.