FUD...

[server]

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 22:02:54 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/04/2022 04:45 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Paul Ehrlich thought that it was useless to help the poor in India;
let\'em die.

Not a popular decision. A parable, or something. I was raised in upstate
New York. Just about every winter the Times Union would run photos of
deer yarded up in the deep snow and starving in the outdoors section.
This would inspire caring people to organize hay drops. The next year
there would be more deer yarded up and starving. Rinse and repeat.

It got to the point that what was then called the Conservation
Department was pleading with people to go out during hunting season and
harvest the deer. I left the state 50 years ago but if anything the
problem has gotten worse.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/104911.html

So, what happens when human populations exceed the carrying capacity?

https://abcnews.go.com/International/millions-lives-risk-famine-stalks-horn-africa/story?id=84643535

https://www.populationpyramid.net/kenya/1970/

Kenya\'s population went from 11 million in 1970 to 54 million today. Is
that sustainable? Is the World Food Programme feeding deer in a vicious
cycle?

Prosperous and educated human populations limit their own birth rates.
Deer don\'t do that.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/07/2022 10:34 AM, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> - build wood houses in fire zones. Don\'t clear brush around house.

https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2018/03/28/emergency-program-helps-community-repair-impacts-roaring-lion-fire

I was down to the Roaring Lion trailhead last month. People are building
back better a little further down the canyon where there are still trees.

 

[legg]

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 00:39:02 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
wrote:

A right-wing friend sent this to me -- in alarm! (and yeah, I\'m
*SURE* it\'s \"true\"; what value to MAKING UP such a load of horseshit?)

----8<----8<----8<----8<----
For those of you that think electric vehicles are the answer -- this
is a true story from a farmer in the Midwest- and I’m reposting it-

A midwest farmer with over 10,000 acres of corn and is spread out over
3 counties. His operation is a “partnership farm” with John Deere. They
use the larger farm operations as demonstration projects for the promotion
and development of new equipment. He recently received a phone call
from his John Deere representative, and they want the farm to go to
electric tractors and combines in 2023. He currently has 5 diesel combines
that cost $900,000 each that are traded in every 3 years. Also, over 10
really BIG tractors.

JD wants him to go all-electric soon.

He said: “Ok, I have some questions. How do I charge these combines when
they are 3 counties away from the shop in the middle of a cornfield, in
the middle of nowhere?”
snip

Apart from the spurious source of the article, electric
machines and heavy movers have been used in confined
industrial environments for decades.

A good source for second hand chinese LiFePO4 batteries
is the mining sector. Battery racks and modules are
swapped out religiously after x cycles or power-on hours.
Usually still good for >80% capacity charge.

RL

 

[Don Y]

On 9/7/2022 8:02 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 09/07/2022 09:23 AM, Don Y wrote:
[Off to figure out how to make granola as TJ keeps f*cking with their
product offerings. Sears, Penneys, Monkey Wards, etc. All thought
\"house brands\" were the solution. Look where it left them! Are
you listening, Kirkland?]

https://dwellinginmiddleburg.com/2013/04/25/whole-earth-catalog-granola/

I dug out my copy of the Last Whole Earth Catalog and the recipe is accurate
with the exception of the original specifying ground roasted soybeans. There is
also a suggestion to grind the flax seeds or chew really well.

Yeah, she isn\'t fond of flax seeds. And, there\'s a lot of \"crunchies\"
in that Rx; I\'d be wary of venturing that far from what she is known to
like. That would just mean more \"failed iterations\" as I tried to refine
\"don\'t like\" into \"like a lot\".

She prefers the sweetness of maple syrup over honey; coconut is too strong
a flavor to compete with the maple syrup subtlety; etc. I suspect I\'ll also
need to add maple extract as I can\'t imagine you\'d want it too \"wet\"
prior to baking (the result of using \"too much\" maple syrup)

She doesn\'t like granola! I bought her some of this stuff from TJs a while
back looking to give her some variety in her breakfasts, knowing the sorts
of flavors she likes. She liked it so I started buying it regularly.

Then, true to form, TJs changed it (not just the packaging but, also,
the ingredients -- you\'re not expected to have an \"old item\" lying
around that you can compare against! :> ) She tried one helping and
it was back to TJ\'s \"returns\" counter with the rest of the package.

[I really don\'t know why we shop at TJs as anything she ends up
liking gets reworked or canceled -- leading to a search for an
alternate supplier, etc. Sometimes, you get lucky and discover
TJ\'s is just house-branding some other manufacturer\'s product
(so, identify the manufacturer, product and retailer that sells it!)]

> It was $5, which the handy inflation calculator says would be $35 today.

I wish I\'d bought two (or twenty?) of these, ~50 years ago:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/275227268596>
Mine is \"breaking\" (the signatures \"break\" due to the type of paper
used) -- I\'d wish I had another in pristine condition (just for myself!)

We looked at no fewer than 20 different granola products, today.
She, of course, wasn\'t keen on ANY of them (to be fair, none of them
had the same flavorings/ingredients as the TJ offering prior to its
being \"reworked\").

Doesn\'t look all that difficult to make. But, getting the right
proportions of flavors will be an iterative solution. Annoyingly
iterative (I don\'t eat the stuff so can\'t even \"taste test\" for
my own opinion). The fact that she doesn\'t consume it very quickly
means I will have to learn how to make *tiny* batches that we
can evaluate quickly and move on to the next turn of the crank.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:32:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 1:52:45 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 5:39:29 PM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
A right-wing friend sent this to me -- in alarm! (and yeah, I\'m
*SURE* it\'s \"true\"; what value to MAKING UP such a load of horseshit?)

----8<----8<----8<----8<----
For those of you that think electric vehicles are the answer -- this
is a true story from a farmer in the Midwest- and I’m reposting it-

A midwest farmer with over 10,000 acres of corn and is spread out over
3 counties. His operation is a “partnership farm” with John Deere. They
use the larger farm operations as demonstration projects for the promotion
and development of new equipment. He recently received a phone call
from his John Deere representative, and they want the farm to go to
electric tractors and combines in 2023. He currently has 5 diesel combines
that cost $900,000 each that are traded in every 3 years. Also, over 10
really BIG tractors.

JD wants him to go all-electric soon.

He said: “Ok, I have some questions. How do I charge these combines when
they are 3 counties away from the shop in the middle of a cornfield, in
the middle of nowhere?”

For that sort of operation, the dead battery would gets swapped with a charged battery, which can be shipped around on the back of a truck.

John Deere would be able to think of that even if some brain dead fossil fuel propaganda creep couldn\'t.

snipped the rest of the fairy tale.
It\'s amazing how little folks originating such content think of the
mental/reasoning capacity of their readers! (or, maybe they\'ve got
them pegged! :> )

They do seem to have got you pegged.

Do you have ANY IDEA how many batteries it would take to keep an electric combine going 24/7? I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT!!

Probably three. One to power the combined harvester, one to sit on the truck getting shipped to and from the harvester, and one to sit in the charger getting recharged.

<snipped Gnatguy getting excited about typos. >

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[rbowman]

On 09/04/2022 10:55 PM, Don Y wrote:

[\"Oh, they AREN\'T replaced every three years? So, what other claims aren\'t
factual? Is there such a thing as the \"partnership farm\" program with
Deere?
Is the farmer really in the Midwest? Is it really *corn* that he\'s
farming?
Is it really 10,000 acres? Are there really *5* combines? Does Deere
really
want him to go electric? In \"2023\"? Do they really run them 24 hours a
day
for 10-12 days? Does the weather \"come in\" around harvest time? Does the
combine really way 25 tons? Is there really a *farmer*????!]

Deere said there isn\'t a partner program and they\'re not going to have
large electric combines any time soon. As for the rest, 10,000 acres is
a little small

https://montanaranches.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/BigHornFarm.pdf

It\'s certainly in line for an operation in Iowa, say. Might be corn.
That\'s the annual crap shoot. Corn? Beans? Wheat? Let it lie fallow and
take the insurance? Combines are usually rated by bushels per hour for
corn, acres per hour for wheat. Depending on the dryness etc, 20 acres
an hour would be a good guess for a 12 row combine. You can do the math.
Harvesting isn\'t a 9 to 5 job. Even the hay operation down the road cuts
until the job is done. The same with baling.

5 combines? Sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjjcI_ooi9w

If you\'ve got a spare million you can go big:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpA6VLx4LNQ

The 16 row head puts you up to 27 acres an hour. fwiw, the sun goes down
at about 12 minutes in and the lights go on.

So, there\'s enough there to be credible except for the EV propaganda.
You could say that about most \'reporting\' today.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/04/2022 11:17 PM, Don Y wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/26/22853573/tesla-model-s-explosion-repair-bill


The advantage of an ICE is that it will still *run* at 100K miles --
even if
it runs poorly, gets worse gas mileage, etc. It\'s rare that you have to
replace an engine, etc.

[I\'ve never put $22K into a car\'s maintenance -- including gas, tires -- in
my whole life!]

I expect my Toyota will be getting broken in at 100,000. My \'86 F150 has
about 200,000 miles. I\'ve replaced the u joints, tie rod ends, fuel
pump, throwout bearing and rebuilt the carburetor. I replaced the clutch
pressure plate and disk when I did the throwout but they didn\'t really
need it. The tailpipe is a little ratty; should replace it one of these
days.

I bought a well used Geo for 2K as an experiment to see if I could live
with a little car. It had a little over 100,000 and as far as I could
tell ran as well as it ever did. It got me to AZ and back although I had
to drop a gear on some of the grades in Utah. I replaced the serpentine
belt since it was an interference engine and I assumed it never had been
replaced. iirc the belt was $45. It was still going strong when I traded
it in on my first Yaris.

Fortunately I don\'t have to worry about smog tests. My brother had an
elderly Tercel but after it failed the CA test it would have cost a lot
more than it was worth to fix it. He gave it to one of those car
donation organizations so it may still be happily polluting in South
America or wherever.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/05/2022 09:05 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 22:02:54 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/04/2022 04:45 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Paul Ehrlich thought that it was useless to help the poor in India;
let\'em die.

Not a popular decision. A parable, or something. I was raised in upstate
New York. Just about every winter the Times Union would run photos of
deer yarded up in the deep snow and starving in the outdoors section.
This would inspire caring people to organize hay drops. The next year
there would be more deer yarded up and starving. Rinse and repeat.

It got to the point that what was then called the Conservation
Department was pleading with people to go out during hunting season and
harvest the deer. I left the state 50 years ago but if anything the
problem has gotten worse.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/104911.html

So, what happens when human populations exceed the carrying capacity?

https://abcnews.go.com/International/millions-lives-risk-famine-stalks-horn-africa/story?id=84643535

https://www.populationpyramid.net/kenya/1970/

Kenya\'s population went from 11 million in 1970 to 54 million today. Is
that sustainable? Is the World Food Programme feeding deer in a vicious
cycle?


Prosperous and educated human populations limit their own birth rates.
Deer don\'t do that.

Kenya doesn\'t make the cut for prosperous and educated. For that matter
neither does the segment of the US population that reproduces freely.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/05/2022 09:31 AM, legg wrote:

Apart from the spurious source of the article, electric
machines and heavy movers have been used in confined
industrial environments for decades.

It\'s the \'confined\' that\'s the difference. The forklifts, for example,
are plugged into the charging station at the end of shift. I assume it\'s
the same for mining equipment.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/5/2022 12:41 PM, rbowman wrote:

I expect my Toyota will be getting broken in at 100,000. My \'86 F150 has about
200,000 miles. I\'ve replaced the u joints, tie rod ends, fuel pump, throwout
bearing and rebuilt the carburetor. I replaced the clutch pressure plate and
disk when I did the throwout but they didn\'t really need it. The tailpipe is a
little ratty; should replace it one of these days.

(sigh) SWMBO wants to replace her vehicle at 10 years. At this rate, that
will be just about 50K miles.

\"Huh?\"

I bought a well used Geo for 2K as an experiment to see if I could live with a
little car. It had a little over 100,000 and as far as I could tell ran as well
as it ever did. It got me to AZ and back although I had to drop a gear on some
of the grades in Utah. I replaced the serpentine belt since it was an
interference engine and I assumed it never had been replaced. iirc the belt was
$45. It was still going strong when I traded it in on my first Yaris.

SWMBOs vehicle sees so little use (mine sees even LESS!) that I now let the
dealer do routine maintenance. An oil change every *year* (~4500 miles) sets
us back $80.

Exhaust systems were an issue living in New England and midwest. Snow and
salt. No such problem, here.

Just discovered the rear wiper on SWMBOs vehicle needs replacing. Its been
so long since I\'ve done so that I was surprised to see they no longer sell
\"wiper inserts\" (you have to replace the whole blade assy?)

Tires and batteries are the bane, here. About 3.5 years for a battery
(so, pull it and return it for full replacement cost at 3 years CLAIMING
it to be bad instead of waiting for it to go flat!). Tires last about
35K (7 years for SWMBO who still doesn\'t seem to understand \"only turn the
steering wheel while car is in motion\")

Fortunately I don\'t have to worry about smog tests. My brother had an elderly
Tercel but after it failed the CA test it would have cost a lot more than it
was worth to fix it. He gave it to one of those car donation organizations so

They usually just trade it to a reseller who may get $500 for it.
Some places you have to be careful about the size of the write-off you take for
things like cars. *You* (and Kelly) may think it\'s worth $X but the IRS may
look at the typical recovered value (e.g., from that wholesaler) and limit
your deduction, accordingly.

[If you want to donate something, donate cash (which has an undisputable value)
or time (which likely has no value)]

> it may still be happily polluting in South America or wherever.

I\'m not sure what the rule is, here. SWMBO (newer vehicle) seems to only have
to go in for a test every other (or third?) year. And, all they seem to do
is check gas cap and ask OBDII if there is anything to report.

My car has to take a trip on the dyno. But, has never failed, despite age
(I suspect they lower the requirements to allow vehicles to remain on the road)

 

[legg]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 13:50:27 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2022 09:31 AM, legg wrote:
Apart from the spurious source of the article, electric
machines and heavy movers have been used in confined
industrial environments for decades.

It\'s the \'confined\' that\'s the difference. The forklifts, for example,
are plugged into the charging station at the end of shift. I assume it\'s
the same for mining equipment.

~150Kg battery banks are loaded/unloaded into traction equipment,as
required,. The equipment itself never needs to actually see a charging
station.

RL

 

[server]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 13:44:08 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2022 09:05 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 22:02:54 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/04/2022 04:45 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Paul Ehrlich thought that it was useless to help the poor in India;
let\'em die.

Not a popular decision. A parable, or something. I was raised in upstate
New York. Just about every winter the Times Union would run photos of
deer yarded up in the deep snow and starving in the outdoors section.
This would inspire caring people to organize hay drops. The next year
there would be more deer yarded up and starving. Rinse and repeat.

It got to the point that what was then called the Conservation
Department was pleading with people to go out during hunting season and
harvest the deer. I left the state 50 years ago but if anything the
problem has gotten worse.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/104911.html

So, what happens when human populations exceed the carrying capacity?

https://abcnews.go.com/International/millions-lives-risk-famine-stalks-horn-africa/story?id=84643535

https://www.populationpyramid.net/kenya/1970/

Kenya\'s population went from 11 million in 1970 to 54 million today. Is
that sustainable? Is the World Food Programme feeding deer in a vicious
cycle?


Prosperous and educated human populations limit their own birth rates.
Deer don\'t do that.


Kenya doesn\'t make the cut for prosperous and educated.

So build their infrastructure and agriculture. Educate them.

For that matter
neither does the segment of the US population that reproduces freely.

US population increase lately is immigration driven.

I assume you don\'t include yourself in the \"reproduces freely\"
category.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/7/2022 9:43 PM, Don Y wrote:

We looked at no fewer than 20 different granola products, today.
She, of course, wasn\'t keen on ANY of them (to be fair, none of them
had the same flavorings/ingredients as the TJ offering prior to its
being \"reworked\").

Doesn\'t look all that difficult to make. But, getting the right
proportions of flavors will be an iterative solution. Annoyingly
iterative (I don\'t eat the stuff so can\'t even \"taste test\" for
my own opinion). The fact that she doesn\'t consume it very quickly
means I will have to learn how to make *tiny* batches that we
can evaluate quickly and move on to the next turn of the crank.

First batch (I only made a cup or so EXPECTING it to \"have problems\")
met with mixed reviews. I opted to add a hint of cinnamon but the
maple syrup we currently have (pancakes) isn\'t strong enough to overcome
that flavor. So, either 86 the cinnamon or find a better source
of maple syrup!

[We had bought some a few years back that was exquisite! But,
attempts to find a similar product from the same vendor have been
unsuccessful.]

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 2:39:29 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

A right-wing friend sent this to me -- in alarm! (and yeah, I\'m
*SURE* it\'s \"true\"; what value to MAKING UP such a load of horseshit?)

----8<----8<----8<----8<----
For those of you that think electric vehicles are the answer -- this
is a true story from a farmer in the Midwest- and I’m reposting it-

A midwest farmer with over 10,000 acres of corn and is spread out over
3 counties. His operation is a “partnership farm” with John Deere. They
use the larger farm operations as demonstration projects for the promotion
and development of new equipment. He recently received a phone call
from his John Deere representative, and they want the farm to go to
electric tractors and combines in 2023. He currently has 5 diesel combines
that cost $900,000 each that are traded in every 3 years. Also, over 10
really BIG tractors.

JD wants him to go all-electric soon.

He said: “Ok, I have some questions. How do I charge these combines when
they are 3 counties away from the shop in the middle of a cornfield, in
the middle of nowhere?”

“How do I run them 24 hours a day for 10 or 12 days straight when the
harvest is ready, and the weather is coming in?”

“How do I get a 50,000+ lb. combine that takes up the width of an entire
road back to the shop 20 miles away when the battery goes dead?”

There was dead silence on the other end of the phone.

When the corn is ready to harvest, it has to have the proper sugar and
moisture content. If it is too wet, it has to be put in giant dryers that
burn natural or propane gas, and lots of it. Harvest time is critical
because if it degrades in sugar content or quality, it can drop the value
of his crop by half a million dollars or more.

It is analyzed at the time of sale.

It is standard procedure to run these machines 10 to 12 days straight,
24 hours a day at peak harvest time.

When they need fuel, a tanker truck delivers it, and the machines keep
going. John Deere’s only answer is “we’re working on it.”

They are being pushed by the lefty Dems in the government to force
these electric machines on the farmer.

These people are out of control.

They are messing with the production of food crops that feed people
and livestock… all in the name of their “green dream.”

Look for the cost of your box of cornflakes to triple in the next 24 months…”

Everything we do has consequences. A trade-off with every action is a
reaction. Oil to gas, roads, plastics to exhaust. We live in an oil-based
economy, there’s no getting around it. Charging batteries requires a source
of energy. Most of that energy comes from fossil fuels.

Conservation is our best resource. Use & recycle and recycle it again. Make
the most of our resources, we have a lot to go around. STOP THE TAXING!
----8<----8<----8<----8<----

(sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one of dem dare
com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from China?\")

It\'s amazing how little folks originating such content think of the
mental/reasoning capacity of their readers! (or, maybe they\'ve got
them pegged! :> )

Writer John Hinderaker claims an EV future is impossible due to a lack of copper among
other things.
<https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/09/the-green-revolution-is-impossible.php>
He cite Professor Simon Michaux from Finland.
I copied this from a Duck Duck Go search. Michaux has at least one piece of paper saying he\'s knowledgeable.
\"7 days agoHolding a Bachelor of Applied Science degree in Physics and Geology and a PhD in Mining Engineering from the University of Queensland, Simon has extensive experience in mining research and development, circular economic principles, industrial recycling, and mineral intelligence.\"
I don\'t have the faintest idea if the Professor knows what he\'s talking about.

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 1:03:43 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

On 9/4/2022 10:13 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/04/2022 01:39 AM, Don Y wrote:
sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn
plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

Other than a couple of prototypes Deere is working in case Germany goes
completely insane in phasing out IC engines, I think that\'s the biggest John
Deere electric.
*If* you accept the premise that ICEs will be \"banned\", I would think the
industry (suppliers, consumers and The Public alike) would rethink how we
grow foodstuffs.

There\'s nothing that says a combine needs to cut a 40 ft swath -- except that
a SINGLE DRIVER can get more done, that way (but, if machines were driving,
the number of such drivers wouldn\'t be limited!).

Or, that all of the processing done in the combine needs to happen in a
single vehicle.

That could take things back to the late 1950s or 60s when farmers used corn pickers.
Farmers had to haul the complete ear to corn cribs. The shelling was done later when the grain
was taken into town. The cobs and some of the shucks ended up in piles that were burned.

Or, that the energy source needs to be *in* the combine.

Or, that we should be growing that much *corn* (if ICE goes away, 25% of
corn crops do as well); after all, the goal is to grow calories!

Ethanol was seen as another use for the crop. Corn doesn\'t lose feed value after
it\'s processed for ethanol.
<https://farm-energy.extension.org/corn-for-biofuel-production/>
From the article:
\"

When petroleum products were introduced to the farm, you didn\'t see farmers
setting up oil wells and refineries on their property (though it was common
on farms, back home, to have many thousand gallon fuel tanks on hand). Yet,
somehow, fuel availability wasn\'t a problem (so why would you think electric
*charge* would be? and, who said the charge had to come from \"batteries\"?)

They didn\'t drive their tractors all the way \"into town\" to purchase more fuel
(you can move energy without having to move the device that consumes it) so
why do you think they\'d have to drive an EV \"back to the shop\" to charge?

Gee, a guy can afford several million dollar combines -- that he \"trades in\"
every three years -- yet he can\'t come up with a better way of keeping them
in service? It must be tough to be poor!
The article is a complete fabrication on many counts but there is one valid
point. Road construction, large scale farming operations, lumbering and so
forth have fuel/lube trucks that refuel the equipment on site. You don\'t drive
a skidder down to the Exxon station to fuel it.
That just means an ENERGY source has to be present proximate to its use.
Apropos. I went down to the fair the adjacent county and watched the tractor
pulls for a while. A \'54 John Deere 60 didn\'t do too bad considering. When I
lived in New Hampshire horse and ox pulling was popular at the fairs and a lot
more interesting. They aren\'t just for show either.
Yeah, we used to have them at the local \"town fair\" -- the \"loads\" were skids
with various amounts of concrete blocks onboard. It looked kind of cruel as
there was no *purpose* being served by the efforts.
Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one of >> dem
dare com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from
China?\")

https://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/new-senate-bill-farm-equipment-right-to-repair-rcna13961

After the com-pewter chip arrives on the slow boat from China you wait a few
more weeks for the gen-you-whine certified John Deere tech to show up and
install it.
Yet, they still manage to use this sort of equipment! Imagine that! :

There are always bumps in new technologies/business practices. Especially
when a radical paradigm shift comes into play.

But, if the idea makes sense (or, has enough \"backing\") the market adapts.
Just as horse-drawn plows gave way to diesel tractors!

It used to be costly to put an NIC in a device -- hence the reason you
saw so many serial port protocols and contorted ways of exchanging data
between devices. Now, the cost of the NIC is down in the noise and the
associated stack costs along with it.

Computers *in* cars? Software updates *for* cars? <shudder
Jon Tester is a bit of an oddity in DC as he knows what a tractor looks like.
He\'s an old school Democrat and not too bad. He\'s up in 2024 so we\'ll see how
that goes. Distancing himself from Biden would be good.

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:36:28 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

On 9/13/2022 7:28 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:45:27 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

We worked on a process to *coat* seeds (herbicide? fertilizer?) but
I can\'t see how that could be economical -- except for special crops
or special conditions (it takes hours to coat a few hundred pounds).

Or, it could have just been a proof of principle (or even patent proof)
exercise waiting for a more practical means of deployment.

Seed corn has been coated with some sort of disease/bug killer since I was
a kid. Call it 1960. It was usually pink. Here\'s a link to Corteva Seed.
https://www.corteva.us/products-and-solutions/seed-treatments.html
This was more recent -- 80\'s. The equipment being used was intended for use
with pharmaceutical products. It seemed (at the time) that use with seeds
would be problematic:
- use of organic solvents seemed like it would be tricky (seed viability?)
- use of aqueous film seemed like it would risk adding too much moisture
- the temperatures experienced in forcing evaporation of the solvent
seemed like they might damage the product
- lot sizes are relatively small and processing time relatively *long*

[but, I have a bit less than zero knowledge of what seeds, in general
(let alone specific crops that might have been targeted) can tolerate]

I.e., the process works for pharmaceuticals because:
- batches are smaller (you can\'t mix two different pharma products so
you\'re only processing *a* batch of *a* product -- even at 1M/hr, you\'ve
got a whole hour before the next batch will be ready!),
- the compounds can be chosen to tolerate the solvents/films/temperatures used
- there is a relatively high value to many of the products processed this way
(you can sell a tablet for a fraction of a dollar or many dollars; how much
can you sell *a* seed?)
Corn, wheat, soybean, and other seeds get treated. Seed corn has always been
expensive stuff. Field corn farmers sold might\'ve been $2 or $3/ bushel (56 lbs.)
Seed corn might\'ve been around $70 per 50 lb. bag if my memory is anywhere close.
Imagine 50 pounds of <pick-your-pharmaceutical

We almost live in different worlds. I got curious so I looked for electric battery powered
tractors. Soletrac is made in the U.S. They have a sub compact tractor that\'s around 25
hp. A California dealer has a list price of just under $34,0t00.
<https://www.beelertractor.com/--xInventoryDetail?id=12645287>
A Massey Ferguson 1725M price with about 25 hp. is around $16,000 give or take.
<https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/for-sale/massey-ferguson/gc1725m/less-than-40-hp-tractors/1111
Soletrac has a 70 hp. version.
<https://solectrac.com/e70n-electric-tractor>. $75,000 or so. A power pack with a charger
and battery adds about $10,000.
A John Deere with 65 hp. is on sale for $52,000. One hour on the tach.
It has a cab so it\'s not a direct comparison. The green paint is at least half of the price.
<https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing/for-sale/214947279/2022-john-deere-5065e-40-hp-to-99-hp-tractors>
You mentioned somewhere up the line about farmers using the whole plant. The few cattle feeders left in my area do chop the corn for silage. What\'s left of the plant is the stalk cut boot high or so.

Today\'s farmers don\'t generally handle bags. They use things like this.
https://christianson.com/brands/seedvac/>.
It used to be a waste of effort to wave at a farmer planting corn or beans. He was staring
at the mark laid down on the previous pass to keep the row spacing consistent. It\'s a waste of
time now because they\'re playing with their smart phones. Tractors are GPS guided.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/05/2022 02:16 PM, Don Y wrote:

(sigh) SWMBO wants to replace her vehicle at 10 years. At this rate, that
will be just about 50K miles.

\"Huh?\"

I hadn\'t planned on replacing the 2013 Yaris, which had 65,000 miles,
but when I took it in for the airbag replacement I saw a 2018 as I
wandered around. Considering it was 2020 I figured they were sick of
looking at it. It was also the last year for the Yaris hatchback. Even
at that time the Yaris sedans were rebranded Mazda 2\'s.

It was the first day of the lockdown when I finalized the deal. I called
ahead and they said they were considered essential services and would be
open. I was the only person in the showroom. There were three or four
salesmen sitting around watching what they thought might be the last
care sale in a long time going down.

Barring another snowplow or similar incident I do not plan on a replacement.

SWMBOs vehicle sees so little use (mine sees even LESS!) that I now let the
dealer do routine maintenance. An oil change every *year* (~4500 miles)
sets
us back $80.

I just started seeing the check engine light flashing on startup to
indicate the 15,000 mile oil change is coming up. I\'ve always done them
myself. It takes a half hour overall and most of that time I\'m doing
something else while waiting for the last drips to drop. I do it at my
convenience, no appointment, no waiting. The timing is right too,
although doing the change in the winter isn\'t a problem.

Just discovered the rear wiper on SWMBOs vehicle needs replacing. Its been
so long since I\'ve done so that I was surprised to see they no longer sell
\"wiper inserts\" (you have to replace the whole blade assy?)

A few years back I was buying an assembly and the clerk asked me why I
didn\'t just change the insert. \'Huh? You still have inserts?\' The
current car has 1 beam wiper, 28\" iirc. CostCo had them on sale so I
bought two. I think I have one for the rear someplace. The little ones
are hard to find.

Tires and batteries are the bane, here. About 3.5 years for a battery
(so, pull it and return it for full replacement cost at 3 years CLAIMING
it to be bad instead of waiting for it to go flat!). Tires last about
35K (7 years for SWMBO who still doesn\'t seem to understand \"only turn the
steering wheel while car is in motion\")

The 2007 Toyota died an untimely death in 2013 with the OEM battery. The
2013 was the trade in in 2020 with the OEM battery. Winter cranking is
nothing compared to living in an oven.

The tires on the first two lasted about 25,000. They were LRR tires to
perk up the fleet mileage figures. Low on resistance and low on durability.

Fortunately I don\'t have to worry about smog tests. My brother had an
elderly Tercel but after it failed the CA test it would have cost a
lot more than it was worth to fix it. He gave it to one of those car
donation organizations so

They usually just trade it to a reseller who may get $500 for it.
Some places you have to be careful about the size of the write-off you
take for
things like cars. *You* (and Kelly) may think it\'s worth $X but the IRS
may
look at the typical recovered value (e.g., from that wholesaler) and limit
your deduction, accordingly.

[If you want to donate something, donate cash (which has an undisputable
value)
or time (which likely has no value)]

I doubt the deduction had anything to do with it. He hated to see a
perfectly good car scrapped. I felt the same with Obama\'s cash for
clunkers. So you\'re going to destroy a perfectly good engine? It wasn\'t
even a consideration but my pickup, which may have a little less than
pristine emissions,was too old to qualify.

My car has to take a trip on the dyno. But, has never failed, despite age
(I suspect they lower the requirements to allow vehicles to remain on
the road)

I was AZ plates for a couple of years. iirc Tucson had smog tests but
Ajo was exempt.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/05/2022 02:39 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 13:44:08 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2022 09:05 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 22:02:54 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/04/2022 04:45 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Paul Ehrlich thought that it was useless to help the poor in India;
let\'em die.

Not a popular decision. A parable, or something. I was raised in upstate
New York. Just about every winter the Times Union would run photos of
deer yarded up in the deep snow and starving in the outdoors section.
This would inspire caring people to organize hay drops. The next year
there would be more deer yarded up and starving. Rinse and repeat.

It got to the point that what was then called the Conservation
Department was pleading with people to go out during hunting season and
harvest the deer. I left the state 50 years ago but if anything the
problem has gotten worse.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/104911.html

So, what happens when human populations exceed the carrying capacity?

https://abcnews.go.com/International/millions-lives-risk-famine-stalks-horn-africa/story?id=84643535

https://www.populationpyramid.net/kenya/1970/

Kenya\'s population went from 11 million in 1970 to 54 million today. Is
that sustainable? Is the World Food Programme feeding deer in a vicious
cycle?


Prosperous and educated human populations limit their own birth rates.
Deer don\'t do that.


Kenya doesn\'t make the cut for prosperous and educated.

So build their infrastructure and agriculture. Educate them.

Good luck with that.

I assume you don\'t include yourself in the \"reproduces freely\"
category.

That would be correct as I have no offspring.

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 5:20:58 PM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 1:03:43 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 9/4/2022 10:13 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/04/2022 01:39 AM, Don Y wrote:
sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn
plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

Other than a couple of prototypes Deere is working in case Germany goes
completely insane in phasing out IC engines, I think that\'s the biggest John
Deere electric.
*If* you accept the premise that ICEs will be \"banned\", I would think the
industry (suppliers, consumers and The Public alike) would rethink how we
grow foodstuffs.

There\'s nothing that says a combine needs to cut a 40 ft swath -- except that
a SINGLE DRIVER can get more done, that way (but, if machines were driving,
the number of such drivers wouldn\'t be limited!).

Or, that all of the processing done in the combine needs to happen in a
single vehicle.

That could take things back to the late 1950s or 60s when farmers used corn pickers.
Farmers had to haul the complete ear to corn cribs. The shelling was done later when the grain
was taken into town. The cobs and some of the shucks ended up in piles that were burned.

Here\'s a video of corn shelling.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-zP6BjSkGQ>. Harvesting corn in the ear had one advantage if I recall correctly. It could be picked at a higher moisture content which meant earlier than with a combine. Avoiding drying costs was the reason to wait when combining. From memory corn could be stored at around 25% moisture if picked but needed to be around 15% if combined.

Or, that the energy source needs to be *in* the combine.

Or, that we should be growing that much *corn* (if ICE goes away, 25% of
corn crops do as well); after all, the goal is to grow calories!
Ethanol was seen as another use for the crop. Corn doesn\'t lose feed value after
it\'s processed for ethanol.
https://farm-energy.extension.org/corn-for-biofuel-production/
From the article:
\"

When petroleum products were introduced to the farm, you didn\'t see farmers
setting up oil wells and refineries on their property (though it was common
on farms, back home, to have many thousand gallon fuel tanks on hand). Yet,
somehow, fuel availability wasn\'t a problem (so why would you think electric
*charge* would be? and, who said the charge had to come from \"batteries\"?)

They didn\'t drive their tractors all the way \"into town\" to purchase more fuel
(you can move energy without having to move the device that consumes it) so
why do you think they\'d have to drive an EV \"back to the shop\" to charge?

Gee, a guy can afford several million dollar combines -- that he \"trades in\"
every three years -- yet he can\'t come up with a better way of keeping them
in service? It must be tough to be poor!
The article is a complete fabrication on many counts but there is one valid
point. Road construction, large scale farming operations, lumbering and so
forth have fuel/lube trucks that refuel the equipment on site. You don\'t drive
a skidder down to the Exxon station to fuel it.
That just means an ENERGY source has to be present proximate to its use..
Apropos. I went down to the fair the adjacent county and watched the tractor
pulls for a while. A \'54 John Deere 60 didn\'t do too bad considering. When I
lived in New Hampshire horse and ox pulling was popular at the fairs and a lot
more interesting. They aren\'t just for show either.
Yeah, we used to have them at the local \"town fair\" -- the \"loads\" were skids
with various amounts of concrete blocks onboard. It looked kind of cruel as
there was no *purpose* being served by the efforts.
Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one of >> dem
dare com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from
China?\")

https://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/new-senate-bill-farm-equipment-right-to-repair-rcna13961

After the com-pewter chip arrives on the slow boat from China you wait a few
more weeks for the gen-you-whine certified John Deere tech to show up and
install it.
Yet, they still manage to use this sort of equipment! Imagine that! :

There are always bumps in new technologies/business practices. Especially
when a radical paradigm shift comes into play.

But, if the idea makes sense (or, has enough \"backing\") the market adapts.
Just as horse-drawn plows gave way to diesel tractors!

It used to be costly to put an NIC in a device -- hence the reason you
saw so many serial port protocols and contorted ways of exchanging data
between devices. Now, the cost of the NIC is down in the noise and the
associated stack costs along with it.

Computers *in* cars? Software updates *for* cars? <shudder
Jon Tester is a bit of an oddity in DC as he knows what a tractor looks like.
He\'s an old school Democrat and not too bad. He\'s up in 2024 so we\'ll see how
that goes. Distancing himself from Biden would be good.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/05/2022 02:05 PM, Don Y wrote:

Is it a lack of scientific training? Stupidity? Or, just confirmation
bias?

All of the above... If people will but the story that the Russians are
shelling a nuclear plant they control for the general hell of it I guess
anything is fair game.

If I really cared I would have been plunged into despair over the last
few years. It\'s not that A is right and B is wrong; it\'s both A and B\'s
arguments contain glaring logical inconsistencies.