FUD...

[Mike Monett VE3BTI]

Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

In article <qjbhhhhchr0hpil3sbkoeo2a3npu9dvkup@4ax.com>,
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

The Katrina flooding was a man-made event. The 17th St Canal and the
Industrial Canal were the paths for the flooding. Both had stupid,
poorly designed and maintained levees. The big old river and lake
levees held.

For some interesting background, read Rising Tide by John Barry.

When I lived in NOLA, everybody knew that \"the big one\" would someday
flood the city, so eat and drink and be merry. Katrina wasn\'t even the
big one.




People are stupid . They build in flood zones and then cry about it
when they get floded out. Same as those that build too close to the
oceans.

- build wood houses in fire zones. Don\'t clear brush around house.
- build houses in landslide areas.
- live on top of earthquake faults.




--
MRM

 

[Don Y]

On 9/13/2022 7:28 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:45:27 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

We worked on a process to *coat* seeds (herbicide? fertilizer?) but
I can\'t see how that could be economical -- except for special crops
or special conditions (it takes hours to coat a few hundred pounds).

Or, it could have just been a proof of principle (or even patent proof)
exercise waiting for a more practical means of deployment.

Seed corn has been coated with some sort of disease/bug killer since I was
a kid. Call it 1960. It was usually pink. Here\'s a link to Corteva Seed.
https://www.corteva.us/products-and-solutions/seed-treatments.html

This was more recent -- 80\'s. The equipment being used was intended for use
with pharmaceutical products. It seemed (at the time) that use with seeds
would be problematic:
- use of organic solvents seemed like it would be tricky (seed viability?)
- use of aqueous film seemed like it would risk adding too much moisture
- the temperatures experienced in forcing evaporation of the solvent
seemed like they might damage the product
- lot sizes are relatively small and processing time relatively *long*

[but, I have a bit less than zero knowledge of what seeds, in general
(let alone specific crops that might have been targeted) can tolerate]

I.e., the process works for pharmaceuticals because:
- batches are smaller (you can\'t mix two different pharma products so
you\'re only processing *a* batch of *a* product -- even at 1M/hr, you\'ve
got a whole hour before the next batch will be ready!),
- the compounds can be chosen to tolerate the solvents/films/temperatures used
- there is a relatively high value to many of the products processed this way
(you can sell a tablet for a fraction of a dollar or many dollars; how much
can you sell *a* seed?)

Corn, wheat, soybean, and other seeds get treated. Seed corn has always been
expensive stuff. Field corn farmers sold might\'ve been $2 or $3/ bushel (56 lbs.)
Seed corn might\'ve been around $70 per 50 lb. bag if my memory is anywhere close.

Imagine 50 pounds of <pick-your-pharmaceutical>

Today\'s farmers don\'t generally handle bags. They use things like this.
https://christianson.com/brands/seedvac/>.
It used to be a waste of effort to wave at a farmer planting corn or beans. He was staring
at the mark laid down on the previous pass to keep the row spacing consistent. It\'s a waste of
time now because they\'re playing with their smart phones. Tractors are GPS guided.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/13/2022 8:36 AM, Don Y wrote:

This was more recent -- 80\'s. The equipment being used was intended for use
with pharmaceutical products.

Photos/illustrations to put in perspective:

general overview:
<https://encyclopedia.che.engin.umich.edu/tablet-coating/>

a modest sized pan:
<https://www.osertech.eu/en/product/ohara-labcoat-100-coater/>
[examine 4th photo in row across bottom]

schematic of process:
<https://d3i71xaburhd42.cloudfront.net/8d6d5bc36b325c92547df666209087015d27ec2e/2-Figure1-1.png>
[Note direction of rotation... tablets \"climb\" the exhaust side of the pan]

close up of tablets in pan:
<https://www.pharmaguideline.com/2016/02/calculation-for-capacity-of-tablet.html>
[note perforations in pan wall and lie of tablet bed]

 

[server]

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 15:11:49 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On 09/04/2022 11:43 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 00:39:02 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
wrote:

A right-wing friend sent this to me -- in alarm! (and yeah, I\'m
*SURE* it\'s \"true\"; what value to MAKING UP such a load of horseshit?)

----8<----8<----8<----8<----
For those of you that think electric vehicles are the answer -- this
is a true story from a farmer in the Midwest- and I’m reposting it-

A midwest farmer with over 10,000 acres of corn and is spread out over
3 counties. His operation is a “partnership farm” with John Deere. They
use the larger farm operations as demonstration projects for the promotion
and development of new equipment. He recently received a phone call
from his John Deere representative, and they want the farm to go to
electric tractors and combines in 2023. He currently has 5 diesel combines
that cost $900,000 each that are traded in every 3 years. Also, over 10
really BIG tractors.

JD wants him to go all-electric soon.

He said: “Ok, I have some questions. How do I charge these combines when
they are 3 counties away from the shop in the middle of a cornfield, in
the middle of nowhere?”

“How do I run them 24 hours a day for 10 or 12 days straight when the
harvest is ready, and the weather is coming in?”

“How do I get a 50,000+ lb. combine that takes up the width of an entire
road back to the shop 20 miles away when the battery goes dead?”

There was dead silence on the other end of the phone.

When the corn is ready to harvest, it has to have the proper sugar and
moisture content. If it is too wet, it has to be put in giant dryers that
burn natural or propane gas, and lots of it. Harvest time is critical
because if it degrades in sugar content or quality, it can drop the value
of his crop by half a million dollars or more.

It is analyzed at the time of sale.

It is standard procedure to run these machines 10 to 12 days straight,
24 hours a day at peak harvest time.

When they need fuel, a tanker truck delivers it, and the machines keep
going. John Deere’s only answer is “we’re working on it.”

They are being pushed by the lefty Dems in the government to force
these electric machines on the farmer.

These people are out of control.

They are messing with the production of food crops that feed people
and livestock… all in the name of their “green dream.”

Look for the cost of your box of cornflakes to triple in the next 24 months…”

Everything we do has consequences. A trade-off with every action is a
reaction. Oil to gas, roads, plastics to exhaust. We live in an oil-based
economy, there’s no getting around it. Charging batteries requires a source
of energy. Most of that energy comes from fossil fuels.

Conservation is our best resource. Use & recycle and recycle it again. Make
the most of our resources, we have a lot to go around. STOP THE TAXING!
----8<----8<----8<----8<----

(sigh) I was tempted to rewrite it from the perspective of horse-drawn plows
and tractors scoffing at the introduction of those new-fangled dee-sell
tractors (\"Whatcha gonna do when you run out of few-ell in the middle of
the field? Ride into town to fetch another can of it??\")

Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one of dem dare
com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from China?\")

It\'s amazing how little folks originating such content think of the
mental/reasoning capacity of their readers! (or, maybe they\'ve got
them pegged! :> )


This is a cool book.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0593297067/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

full of facts and numbers about, well, what it says. An early chapter
compares human and horse-powered agriculture to what we do now.

It shows me how amazingly complex and productive civilization is now,
and how easy it is for morons to break it and kill maybe billions of
people.

A bunch of the world runs on diesel oil and ammonia.






India and other countries faced famine in the \'60s. The \'Green
Revolution\' save the day. otoh, look at the population of India in 1970
versus 2022. Is there another rabbit in the hat that doesn\'t depend of
chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and heavy irrigation?

One dream is to invent insect-resistant grain crops that have
nitrogen-fixing bacteria in their roots. Some day maybe.

Norman Borlaug saved the day -- or did he just kick the can down the road?

https://www.agdaily.com/crops/borlaug-and-vogt-and-the-world-they-sought-to-build/

\'The Wizard and the Prophet\' is an even-handed treatment of the
competing visions of Borlaug and Vogt. Take your pick.

Paul Ehrlich thought that it was useless to help the poor in India;
let\'em die.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/12/2022 09:45 PM, Don Y wrote:

We worked on a process to *coat* seeds (herbicide? fertilizer?) but
I can\'t see how that could be economical -- except for special crops
or special conditions (it takes hours to coat a few hundred pounds).

https://www.motherjones.com/food/2012/05/catching-my-reading-ahead-pesticide-industry-confab/

I was only a kid and have no idea what the composition was but I
remember stirring a black, foul smelling liquid into seed corn to
prevent the crows from eating the kernels faster than you could plant them.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/13/2022 08:28 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

It used to be a waste of effort to wave at a farmer planting corn or beans. He was staring
at the mark laid down on the previous pass to keep the row spacing consistent. It\'s a waste of
time now because they\'re playing with their smart phones. Tractors are GPS guided.

I never did a lot of it but I have not so fond memories of harrowing a
field with an old Minneapolis-Moline. No air conditioned cab with an
entertainment system, just head for the horizon, turn around and come back.

I got careless, turned too tight, and pinched a tire. Of course the tire
was ballasted with a calcium chloride solution that gave me a little
shower on every rotation on the way back to the barn.

Actually I blame it on the MM. It had a fuel leak so a gasoline buzz was
part of the process.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/13/2022 01:38 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2022-09-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:18 AM, Don Y wrote:
A second device could follow the harvester in much the same way that
a grain car does for some crops.

Or a fleet... I posted a couple of videos. A 12 row combine keeps the
\'second device\' damn busy transferring just the corn.

Or, someone will figure out a use for the \"refuse\".

https://necornstalk.com/why-most-farmers-dont-plow-their-fields/
https://sustainable-secure-food-blog.com/2019/01/22/why-do-some-farm-fields-after-harvest/

There is a use. Till or no-till the residue enriches the soil. A
cornstalk doesn\'t magically construct itself from thin air. Sure you can
use it for biomass but TANSTAAFL.

Or, someone will decide that corn isn\'t an efficient crop to grow/harvest.

What would the world do without high fructose corn syrup?

Lose weight, probably.

The whole USDA \'get big or get out\' philosophy from LBJ\'s day is geared
to producing cheap food to keep hoi polloi fat, dumb, and happy, no
healthy food.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/13/2022 8:54 AM, rbowman wrote:

On 09/12/2022 09:45 PM, Don Y wrote:
We worked on a process to *coat* seeds (herbicide? fertilizer?) but
I can\'t see how that could be economical -- except for special crops
or special conditions (it takes hours to coat a few hundred pounds).

https://www.motherjones.com/food/2012/05/catching-my-reading-ahead-pesticide-industry-confab/


I was only a kid and have no idea what the composition was but I remember
stirring a black, foul smelling liquid into seed corn to prevent the crows from
eating the kernels faster than you could plant them.

There had to be a \"special reason\" to use a coating pan for this task.
They aren\'t cheap, small, high throughput, etc. What they *can* do is
\"guarantee\" a consistent coating -- from unit to unit (seed to seed)
and batch to batch.

So, it could be that it was being examined as a research platform
to allow folks to \"formulate\" their coatings (which they would apply
in a more economical fashion \"in production\")

 

[Don Y]

On 9/13/2022 9:02 AM, rbowman wrote:

On 09/13/2022 08:28 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
It used to be a waste of effort to wave at a farmer planting corn or
beans. He was staring
at the mark laid down on the previous pass to keep the row spacing
consistent. It\'s a waste of
time now because they\'re playing with their smart phones. Tractors are GPS
guided.

I never did a lot of it but I have not so fond memories of harrowing a field
with an old Minneapolis-Moline. No air conditioned cab with an entertainment
system, just head for the horizon, turn around and come back.

Corn fields are *so* much better for carnal^H^H^H kernel exploration!

I got careless, turned too tight, and pinched a tire. Of course the tire was
ballasted with a calcium chloride solution that gave me a little shower on
every rotation on the way back to the barn.

Actually I blame it on the MM. It had a fuel leak so a gasoline buzz was part
of the process.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/7/2022 8:14 AM, rbowman wrote:

On 09/07/2022 12:03 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/6/2022 10:35 PM, rbowman wrote:

Most of the old mines are still visible at Cripple Creek. And, the
tailings
just strewn around the entrances (\"just leave that; it\'s not OUR
problem!\").
IIRC, they\'ve started mining the tailings to see if they can eek out a bit
more gold without all the effort of *digging*.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2018-02/documents/anacondasmeltercasestudy-2016.pdf


It\'s never \'their\' problem. ARCO bought the assets, not the liabilities.
Anaconda built a golf course on part of the tailings but some are exposed. They
were reworked at one point, not for gold but some other mineral. Gold and
silver were a minor byproduct of the Butte mines; they were mostly copper.

One of the easiest ways of making money (though capital intensive) is
with natural resources; you never have to replenish them!

Sort of like making a product and never having to purchase the components!

The photo doesn\'t convey the scope of the tailings. Some are coarse rock,
others are the fines from the floatation refining process and you can see the
plume on windy days. P-D is long gone, of course.

Water was a problem there too. Obviously it\'s all fossil water from better days.

I think the whole world is going to start finding water to be an
\"issue\".

 

[Don Y]

On 9/4/2022 1:04 PM, boB wrote:

They could just use a big/long extension cord !

I would probably run over my own cord though.

If you think about it, most farmland (for crops
like corn, wheat, etc.) is \"wide open space\".
And, largely clean soil (no large rocks, tree
stumps, etc. to navigate) -- cultivated.

And, the crops tend to be planted in regular rows.

So, the equipment that services those crops could
exploit these facts and rely on infrastructure
imposed *in* the fields in much the same way that a
subway\'s or trolley\'s constrained travel path allows
power to be delivered *to* the load (instead of
carried *in* the load)

Or, the requirement to carry the harvested crop *in*
the combine can be eased and moved to a \"tender\"
so that the physical load can be reduced. And, the
tender can return the harvested crop to the \"collection
point\" without the \"harvester\" leaving its job.

Or, the tender can carry the battery for the harvester
so that a new battery can replace the existing one as
it nears depletion (the discharged battery returning to
a service station autonomously).

I.e., you\'re not stuck with the existing models when
you adopt a new technology -- especially if you are
\"trading in\" your equipment \"every three years\"...

 

[Don Y]

On 9/4/2022 1:51 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 09/04/2022 12:03 PM, Don Y wrote:
They didn\'t drive their tractors all the way \"into town\" to purchase
more fuel
(you can move energy without having to move the device that consumes it) so
why do you think they\'d have to drive an EV \"back to the shop\" to charge?

So there will be charging stations in the middle of the field? Unless Tesla\'s
pipe dreams become a reality moving electrical energy around requires physical
infrastructure.

Why does it have to be in the middle of the field?
Does a helicopter come and retrieve the harvested crop
\"from the middle of the field\"? Teleporter?

That just means an ENERGY source has to be present proximate to its use.

And how will that come to pass?

Why can\'t the energy source have its own form of locomotion?
Or, be \"infrastructure\"?
(see reply to Bob)

Personally, I think (chemical) battery powered electrics are just
a transitional technology. Wait 10 years and see how many owners
are complaining about the cost/hassle of replacing their no-longer-new
batteries -- and the environmental costs that may accompany that.

[Most of the EV owners that I know don\'t keep a vehicle for more
than 2 or 3 years. Are they THAT fickle? Or, are the vehicles
that problematic? Or, are they just trying to stay ahead of the
depreciation and repair costs??]

Yeah, we used to have them at the local \"town fair\" -- the \"loads\" were
skids
with various amounts of concrete blocks onboard. It looked kind of
cruel as
there was no *purpose* being served by the efforts.

That\'s what horses do. I found the difference between horses and oxen
interesting. The horse teams come out with their fancy harnesses and prance
around. The hard part is getting them hitched to the stone boat. Once hitched
they pull for a distance and stall out. After collecting themselves, they make
it a little further before giving it up.

The ox teams come out in their utilitarian yokes, and calmly back up to be
hitched. Then they drag the boat as far as they can and they\'re finished.
There\'s no short spurts, when they\'re done they\'re done.

The pulling at the New Hampshire state fair ran long enough one evening that
the fireworks show started. That really got the horses ramped up while the oxen
stood around waiting to go to work.

Think of it like going to the gym. Deadlifts never accomplished anything useful.

So, you think it\'s *practice* for the horses? \"Let\'s add another 500 pounds
and see which teams can cut the mustard...\"

Or, the modern COMPUTERIZED combines (\"Whatcha gonna do when one
of >> dem dare com-pewter chips goes fritz? Have another flown in from
China?\")

https://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/new-senate-bill-farm-equipment-right-to-repair-rcna13961


After the com-pewter chip arrives on the slow boat from China you wait
a few more weeks for the gen-you-whine certified John Deere tech to
show up and install it.

Yet, they still manage to use this sort of equipment! Imagine that! :

Until it breaks down... I went out one morning and the DR650 wouldn\'t start.
Some diagnostics showed the ECU died. There is no work around; find one on
eBay, wait for it to be delivered, and replace the unit. That\'s for a bike that
still has a relatively primitive carbureted engine.

You (and the farmers) don\'t have to avail yourself of the advantages that
these technologies offer. You can use a horse-drawn plow. Or, an old
carbureted tractor. Or, install windmills on your property.

The real problem in this case is not the technology as much as John Deere\'s
stand that you never own the technology, you\'re just using it. They took a page
out of Apple\'s book.

That\'s the future of everything. You *rent* music, never *own* an album.
You *rent* access to Photoshop. Or MSOffice. Or...

There are folks who rent (lease) vehicles.

I know a company that sells *chipped* vials of distilled water for their
instrument. Don\'t wanna buy their water? Fine! Stop using the instrument!

The trick is to find someone that serves your needs (whatever those may be)
at a price that you can \"tolerate\". Or, find an alternative solution.

If you have the product sought, then you can largely dictate your terms.
Until someone comes up with an alternative.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/04/2022 04:45 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Paul Ehrlich thought that it was useless to help the poor in India;
let\'em die.

Not a popular decision. A parable, or something. I was raised in upstate
New York. Just about every winter the Times Union would run photos of
deer yarded up in the deep snow and starving in the outdoors section.
This would inspire caring people to organize hay drops. The next year
there would be more deer yarded up and starving. Rinse and repeat.

It got to the point that what was then called the Conservation
Department was pleading with people to go out during hunting season and
harvest the deer. I left the state 50 years ago but if anything the
problem has gotten worse.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/104911.html

So, what happens when human populations exceed the carrying capacity?

https://abcnews.go.com/International/millions-lives-risk-famine-stalks-horn-africa/story?id=84643535

https://www.populationpyramid.net/kenya/1970/

Kenya\'s population went from 11 million in 1970 to 54 million today. Is
that sustainable? Is the World Food Programme feeding deer in a vicious
cycle?

 

[rbowman]

On 09/04/2022 06:10 PM, Don Y wrote:

I.e., you\'re not stuck with the existing models when
you adopt a new technology -- especially if you are
\"trading in\" your equipment \"every three years\"...

You choose to believe that one paragraph in a work of fiction?

https://www.farm-equipment.com/articles/13093-how-old-is-the-us-fleet-of-farm-tractors

They don\'t do a good job of answering their own question. Saying 16% of
the row crop tractors are less than five years old conveys no
information about the other 84%. There are factors influencing the jump
that aren\'t examined. Corn prices were up in 2012 and 2013 leading to
optimistic purchasing. That led to a glut of used machinery and dealers
couldn\'t give away used tractors. Because of covid, supply chain,
yadayada the used market is up which may influence people to buy new if
they can find one.

Overall, I\'d say trading in your equipment every three years has the
same odor and consistency as the rest of the bullshit in that article.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/4/2022 9:26 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 09/04/2022 06:10 PM, Don Y wrote:
I.e., you\'re not stuck with the existing models when
you adopt a new technology -- especially if you are
\"trading in\" your equipment \"every three years\"...

You choose to believe that one paragraph in a work of fiction?

No. I\'m poking fun at the original email. It obviously wants to PRETEND
to be factual. So, I can use its \"facts\" in my counterargument. Let
the original author dispute my alternatives without contradicting any
of the \"truths\" he\'s claimed to have set out!

[\"Oh, they AREN\'T replaced every three years? So, what other claims aren\'t
factual? Is there such a thing as the \"partnership farm\" program with Deere?
Is the farmer really in the Midwest? Is it really *corn* that he\'s farming?
Is it really 10,000 acres? Are there really *5* combines? Does Deere really
want him to go electric? In \"2023\"? Do they really run them 24 hours a day
for 10-12 days? Does the weather \"come in\" around harvest time? Does the
combine really way 25 tons? Is there really a *farmer*????!]

They don\'t do a good job of answering their own question. Saying 16% of the row
crop tractors are less than five years old conveys no information about the

Yeah, one of the car companies claims X% of their cars are still on the road
10 years later. Does that mean X% of ALL the cars they have ever sold? etc.

other 84%. There are factors influencing the jump that aren\'t examined. Corn
prices were up in 2012 and 2013 leading to optimistic purchasing. That led to a
glut of used machinery and dealers couldn\'t give away used tractors. Because of
covid, supply chain, yadayada the used market is up which may influence people
to buy new if they can find one.

Overall, I\'d say trading in your equipment every three years has the same odor
and consistency as the rest of the bullshit in that article.

Yup. You\'ll note that I labeled it as such in my first sentence! :>

 

[rbowman]

On 09/04/2022 06:23 PM, Don Y wrote:

Personally, I think (chemical) battery powered electrics are just
a transitional technology. Wait 10 years and see how many owners
are complaining about the cost/hassle of replacing their no-longer-new
batteries -- and the environmental costs that may accompany that.

[Most of the EV owners that I know don\'t keep a vehicle for more
than 2 or 3 years. Are they THAT fickle? Or, are the vehicles
that problematic? Or, are they just trying to stay ahead of the
depreciation and repair costs??]

Do the research. Depending on where you source the batteries and whether
you want to roll the dice on \'remanufactured\' replacing the batteries on
a vehicle with 100,000 miles costs more than the car is worth. Or you
can be like the poster who is running his elderly Leaf on D cells.

The smart move in many relationships is dumping your partner before love
turns to hate and I think that applies to EVs. Buying used EV would
require a special kind of fool unless it is very cheap and you plan to
junk it when the battery goes, the equivalent of the $200 used car back
in the day. (my cheapest was a $35 \'51 Chevy. Sort of rusty but you
couldn\'t kill that straight 6 engine)

So, you think it\'s *practice* for the horses? \"Let\'s add another 500
pounds
and see which teams can cut the mustard...\"

I try not to anthropomorphize but a 2000 pound workhorse who\'s
bloodlines goes back the the medieval might find it sort of fun. Do you
think the working dog trials are cruel and unusual punishment? Dogs live
Border Collies live to herd something. I knew one that tried to herd
mules. It didn\'t work out too well and you\'d often find Tess draped over
a saddle in the tack shop recovering from the latest attempt. Lacking a
supply of sheep she never stopped trying.

That\'s the future of everything. You *rent* music, never *own* an album.
You *rent* access to Photoshop. Or MSOffice. Or...

There are folks who rent (lease) vehicles.

Welcome to Dystopia. I\'m currently involved in a cloud project. Being a
whore at heart if the person signing the checks has the money, I\'ve got
the time. Just don\'t expect me to write the bullet points on why it\'s a
good idea. A lot depends on whether capital or operational expenses have
the better funding/tax advantages.

I know a company that sells *chipped* vials of distilled water for their
instrument. Don\'t wanna buy their water? Fine! Stop using the
instrument!

The inkjet people figured that out long ago. I think Kodak was one of
the pioneers. Sell an inexpensive camera and ensure the film sales and
processing will richly reward you.

Of course long before the terminator gene people were figuring out how
to sell fruits and vegetables without giving away the means of production.

 

[Don Y]

On 9/4/2022 10:04 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 09/04/2022 06:23 PM, Don Y wrote:
Personally, I think (chemical) battery powered electrics are just
a transitional technology. Wait 10 years and see how many owners
are complaining about the cost/hassle of replacing their no-longer-new
batteries -- and the environmental costs that may accompany that.

[Most of the EV owners that I know don\'t keep a vehicle for more
than 2 or 3 years. Are they THAT fickle? Or, are the vehicles
that problematic? Or, are they just trying to stay ahead of the
depreciation and repair costs??]

Do the research. Depending on where you source the batteries and whether you
want to roll the dice on \'remanufactured\' replacing the batteries on a vehicle
with 100,000 miles costs more than the car is worth. Or you can be like the
poster who is running his elderly Leaf on D cells.

<https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/26/22853573/tesla-model-s-explosion-repair-bill>

The advantage of an ICE is that it will still *run* at 100K miles -- even if
it runs poorly, gets worse gas mileage, etc. It\'s rare that you have to
replace an engine, etc.

[I\'ve never put $22K into a car\'s maintenance -- including gas, tires -- in
my whole life!]

The smart move in many relationships is dumping your partner before love turns
to hate and I think that applies to EVs. Buying used EV would require a special
kind of fool unless it is very cheap and you plan to junk it when the battery
goes, the equivalent of the $200 used car back in the day. (my cheapest was a
$35 \'51 Chevy. Sort of rusty but you couldn\'t kill that straight 6 engine)

Exactly. I think there are going to be a lot of disappointed owners in
the decade to come -- whether they are \"original owners\" or foolish enough
to \"buy used\".

So, you think it\'s *practice* for the horses? \"Let\'s add another 500
pounds
and see which teams can cut the mustard...\"

I try not to anthropomorphize but a 2000 pound workhorse who\'s bloodlines goes
back the the medieval might find it sort of fun. Do you think the working dog
trials are cruel and unusual punishment? Dogs live Border Collies live to herd
something. I knew one that tried to herd mules. It didn\'t work out too well and
you\'d often find Tess draped over a saddle in the tack shop recovering from the
latest attempt. Lacking a supply of sheep she never stopped trying.

That\'s the future of everything. You *rent* music, never *own* an album.
You *rent* access to Photoshop. Or MSOffice. Or...

There are folks who rent (lease) vehicles.

Welcome to Dystopia. I\'m currently involved in a cloud project. Being a whore
at heart if the person signing the checks has the money, I\'ve got the time.
Just don\'t expect me to write the bullet points on why it\'s a good idea. A lot
depends on whether capital or operational expenses have the better funding/tax
advantages.

Yup. Businesses make odd decisions. A local hospital sold its facilities...
then rented them back from the purchaser (it was part of the sale agreement!)

I know a company that sells *chipped* vials of distilled water for their
instrument. Don\'t wanna buy their water? Fine! Stop using the
instrument!

The inkjet people figured that out long ago. I think Kodak was one of the
pioneers. Sell an inexpensive camera and ensure the film sales and processing
will richly reward you.

But \"ink\" is a bit more complicated than \"distilled water\" -- that the lab
purchasing the equipment likely has in abundance (but not \"in those bottles\"!)

Of course long before the terminator gene people were figuring out how to sell
fruits and vegetables without giving away the means of production.

One of the reasons GMO exists and you\'re in a perpetual arrangement to keep
buying your seedstock from them!

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:06:00 AM UTC+10, rbowman wrote:

On 09/13/2022 01:38 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-09-13, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:18 AM, Don Y wrote:
A second device could follow the harvester in much the same way that
a grain car does for some crops.

Or a fleet... I posted a couple of videos. A 12 row combine keeps the
\'second device\' damn busy transferring just the corn.

Or, someone will figure out a use for the \"refuse\".

https://necornstalk.com/why-most-farmers-dont-plow-their-fields/
https://sustainable-secure-food-blog.com/2019/01/22/why-do-some-farm-fields-after-harvest/

There is a use. Till or no-till the residue enriches the soil. A
cornstalk doesn\'t magically construct itself from thin air. Sure you can
use it for biomass but TANSTAAFL.

Or, someone will decide that corn isn\'t an efficient crop to grow/harvest.

What would the world do without high fructose corn syrup?

Lose weight, probably.

The whole USDA \'get big or get out\' philosophy from LBJ\'s day is geared
to producing cheap food to keep hoi polloi fat, dumb, and happy, no
healthy food.

It\'s more that US food merchandising is aimed at making the food they sell addictive, so that the customers eat more of it than they should, killing their appetite for food manufactured by the competition. The fact that their customers end up obese is just a side-effect.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 1:52:45 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 5:39:29 PM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
A right-wing friend sent this to me -- in alarm! (and yeah, I\'m
*SURE* it\'s \"true\"; what value to MAKING UP such a load of horseshit?)

----8<----8<----8<----8<----
For those of you that think electric vehicles are the answer -- this
is a true story from a farmer in the Midwest- and I’m reposting it-

A midwest farmer with over 10,000 acres of corn and is spread out over
3 counties. His operation is a “partnership farm” with John Deere. They
use the larger farm operations as demonstration projects for the promotion
and development of new equipment. He recently received a phone call
from his John Deere representative, and they want the farm to go to
electric tractors and combines in 2023. He currently has 5 diesel combines
that cost $900,000 each that are traded in every 3 years. Also, over 10
really BIG tractors.

JD wants him to go all-electric soon.

He said: “Ok, I have some questions. How do I charge these combines when
they are 3 counties away from the shop in the middle of a cornfield, in
the middle of nowhere?”
For that sort of operation, the dead battery would gets swapped with a charged battery, which can be shipped around on the back of a track.

John Dere would be able to think of that even if some brain dead fossil fuel propaganda creep couldn\'t.

snipped the rest of the fairy tale.
It\'s amazing how little folks originating such content think of the
mental/reasoning capacity of their readers! (or, maybe they\'ve got
them pegged! :> )
They do seem to have got you pegged.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Hey Bozo, you are REALLY a DORK! Do you have ANY IDEA how many batteries it would take to keep an electric combine going 24/7? I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT!!

BTW Deere is spelled DEERE, n Dere, and truck is spelled TRUCK, not track.

 

[rbowman]

On 09/07/2022 09:23 AM, Don Y wrote:

[Off to figure out how to make granola as TJ keeps f*cking with their
product offerings. Sears, Penneys, Monkey Wards, etc. All thought
\"house brands\" were the solution. Look where it left them! Are
you listening, Kirkland?]

https://dwellinginmiddleburg.com/2013/04/25/whole-earth-catalog-granola/

I dug out my copy of the Last Whole Earth Catalog and the recipe is
accurate with the exception of the original specifying ground roasted
soybeans. There is also a suggestion to grind the flax seeds or chew
really well.

It was $5, which the handy inflation calculator says would be $35 today.